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post #2971 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Very impressive.. But I'm ole school. I get up and walk over to my gear an actually press buttons.

LOL that's Old School Ancient School man!  Unless, your setup is music only w/ physical media--in which case, it can all be part of the experience.

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post #2972 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, I have a dilemma. I'm worried that I won’t be able to add the minimum of four (4) 20 amp circuits required for the Emotiva XPR amplifierss (3 XPR-1’s and one XPR-5 at one 20 amp circuit each) without adding an entirely new electrical panel from the grid ($4-7k in costs). I’m going to do a walk though of the new house today (will take lots of pictures of the unfinished theater area, if I remember my camera) and am going to try to get a better hold of the total power draw of the house. But—if the house doesn’t have at least 80 amperes lying around, I may need to sell the Emotiva XPR-1’s. :-(

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post #2973 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 08:41 AM
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Guys, I have a dilemma. I'm worried that I won’t be able to add the minimum of four (4) 20 amp circuits required for the Emotiva XPR amplifierss (3 XPR-1’s and one XPR-5 at one 20 amp circuit each) without adding an entirely new electrical panel from the grid ($4-7k in costs). I’m going to do a walk though of the new house today (will take lots of pictures of the unfinished theater area, if I remember my camera) and am going to try to get a better hold of the total power draw of the house. But—if the house doesn’t have at least 80 amperes lying around, I may need to sell the Emotiva XPR-1’s. :-(

This is the only advice you need for this problem..

Do it. Invest in the new electrical panel. You will be happier that you did. At this point it makes no sense to compromise on your dedicated theater. And it will probably be cheaper to do it now versus when your house to totally completed and then you decide to add a new panel and have to rip walls open, etc, etc, etc.

Also to sweeten the deal for you.. Remember when you upgrade the CB3 to CB4 level, you will now be able to do 11.4 or more. So you will most likely have to get more XPR's and subs.
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post #2974 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Guys, I have a dilemma. I'm worried that I won’t be able to add the minimum of four (4) 20 amp circuits required for the Emotiva XPR amplifierss (3 XPR-1’s and one XPR-5 at one 20 amp circuit each) without adding an entirely new electrical panel from the grid ($4-7k in costs). I’m going to do a walk though of the new house today (will take lots of pictures of the unfinished theater area, if I remember my camera) and am going to try to get a better hold of the total power draw of the house. But—if the house doesn’t have at least 80 amperes lying around, I may need to sell the Emotiva XPR-1’s. :-(

Hey BB,

Have you considered ClassD amps? Specifically the Hypex NCore 1200 Amps.... Those are more expensive and I have not heard them, but reports from those are very positive and are very efficient. They are more expensive but you save on the electric bill and complexity of electrical install... They are sold as mono amps though... So you may replace the xpr-1s for the fronts and keep the xpr-5 for the rest.... I know a user over at the emotiva forums who mixed his xpa-3 with a pair of nc400 diy monoblocks and he reports basucally that since both are very neutral, they sound different enough that it be a concern for movies.... But does prefer the ncores over his xpa-2 for the fronts..

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post #2975 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

LOL that's Old School Ancient School man!  Unless, your setup is music only w/ physical media--in which case, it can all be part of the experience.

Then I, too, am ancient. But then, it's a small room and does involve physical media. Plus, the tuner's analog. However, I will use remotes to minimize fingerprints and smudges on the equipment. The less I need to handle it the better.
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post #2976 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 01:40 PM
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Hey BB,

Have you considered ClassD amps? Specifically the Hypex NCore 1200 Amps.... Those are more expensive and I have not heard them, but reports from those are very positive and are very efficient. They are more expensive but you save on the electric bill and complexity of electrical install... They are sold as mono amps though... So you may replace the xpr-1s for the fronts and keep the xpr-5 for the rest.... I know a user over at the emotiva forums who mixed his xpa-3 with a pair of nc400 diy monoblocks and he reports basucally that since both are very neutral, they sound different enough that it be a concern for movies.... But does prefer the ncores over his xpa-2 for the fronts..


Knowing the kind of person Brolic is, he needs to make sure he has room to grow. Let's just say those XPR's may not be there for a long time. Even if he jumps to class D amps, I can guess with confidence that even those won't last. The man is a tweaker. I'm looking forward to seeing Tube amps and Fridge size Class A amps in the future.
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post #2977 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally have some pics up of the upcoming theater space over on my Build Thread. 

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post #2978 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Knowing the kind of person Brolic is, he needs to make sure he has room to grow. Let's just say those XPR's may not be there for a long time. Even if he jumps to class D amps, I can guess with confidence that even those won't last. The man is a tweaker. I'm looking forward to seeing Tube amps and Fridge size Class A amps in the future.

In that case I agree with you.... building the infrastructure now goes a long way towards preventing headaches in the future.... I need to read the whole thread to get a better grasp of what BrolicBeast wants to do overall... I know he wants a theater plus a 2ch system... I did get to see his Focus SE setup which was awesome! I understand, from what i have seen his aspirations though... now that the new place is coming together, these threads are gonna get more interesting...

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post #2979 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post


This is the only advice you need for this problem..

Do it. Invest in the new electrical panel. You will be happier that you did. At this point it makes no sense to compromise on your dedicated theater. And it will probably be cheaper to do it now versus when your house to totally completed and then you decide to add a new panel and have to rip walls open, etc, etc, etc.

Also to sweeten the deal for you.. Remember when you upgrade the CB3 to CB4 level, you will now be able to do 11.4 or more. So you will most likely have to get more XPR's and subs.

 

Dude, something amazing happened today.  Not only can the house handle the Emotiva pmps; the panels are located in the basement RIGHT BEHIND THE THEATER!!  Talk about eeeeeasy power runs!!! heh heh heh  :-)  Nah man, the CB4, for reasons I don't understand, can't do 11.4.  It does 7.5, but apparently Neo X and Dolby Pro Logic Z just isn't supported. I'd love a processor that supports those modes, but the only device I'd replace the Theta CB with is a Datasat RS20i, but I don't want to sell the Theta just to get maybe 85% of the RS20i's price. 

 

 

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Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post


Hey BB,

Have you considered ClassD amps? Specifically the Hypex NCore 1200 Amps.... Those are more expensive and I have not heard them, but reports from those are very positive and are very efficient. They are more expensive but you save on the electric bill and complexity of electrical install... They are sold as mono amps though... So you may replace the xpr-1s for the fronts and keep the xpr-5 for the rest.... I know a user over at the emotiva forums who mixed his xpa-3 with a pair of nc400 diy monoblocks and he reports basucally that since both are very neutral, they sound different enough that it be a concern for movies.... But does prefer the ncores over his xpa-2 for the fronts..

Pro and DIY amps aren't really up my alley.  I do know Class D amps are VERY capable and I don't knock them at all.  I definitely appreciate the suggestion though!

 

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Then I, too, am ancient. But then, it's a small room and does involve physical media. Plus, the tuner's analog. However, I will use remotes to minimize fingerprints and smudges on the equipment. The less I need to handle it the better.

Nope, you're not ancient at all.  Getting up to get things going makes complete sense since you utilize physical media and equipment that requires physical manipulation.

 

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Knowing the kind of person Brolic is, he needs to make sure he has room to grow. Let's just say those XPR's may not be there for a long time. Even if he jumps to class D amps, I can guess with confidence that even those won't last. The man is a tweaker. I'm looking forward to seeing Tube amps and Fridge size Class A amps in the future.

LOL--Kevon, Fridge-sized Class A amps.....now those, I could live with easily!!!  Give me an amplifier the size of a JTR Orbit Shifter, and I'll probably never upgrade again! lol......

 

Well, never say never. heh heh 

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post #2980 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 04:11 PM
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Nope, you're not ancient at all.  Getting up to get things going makes complete sense since you utilize physical media and equipment that requires physical manipulation.

Exactly!
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post #2981 of 3340 Old 02-18-2014, 07:06 PM
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Excellent news about the panel location. Whenever you need more dedicated mains, you can do it yourself.
As for the CB4 not being able to do 11.4 that sucks.. Butt, there is a workaround.
It involves using 2 processors or processor and Av receiver combo. The main 7 channels and your subs will be controlled by the Casablanca. Those are the most import channels.
For the Wide L/R and High L/R channels, this is where the second processor or AVR comes in. You can use the Marantz AV8801, Denon 4520, denon 4311, etc, etc.. The second HDMI out from your OPPO will run into the secondary AVR/processor.

The only channels on the secondary AVR/Process you will use are the Wide and Height channels. You will not be able to use Dirac to calibrate those but the units I mentioned do come with Audyssey MultEQXT32. Calibrate the front H/W channels with that and tweak as needed to match the main 7 channels Dirac settings.
And there you have it. A 11.5 mishmash.
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post #2982 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Excellent news about the panel location. Whenever you need more dedicated mains, you can do it yourself.
As for the CB4 not being able to do 11.4 that sucks.. Butt, there is a workaround.
It involves using 2 processors or processor and Av receiver combo. The main 7 channels and your subs will be controlled by the Casablanca. Those are the most import channels.
For the Wide L/R and High L/R channels, this is where the second processor or AVR comes in. You can use the Marantz AV8801, Denon 4520, denon 4311, etc, etc.. The second HDMI out from your OPPO will run into the secondary AVR/processor.

The only channels on the secondary AVR/Process you will use are the Wide and Height channels. You will not be able to use Dirac to calibrate those but the units I mentioned do come with Audyssey MultEQXT32. Calibrate the front H/W channels with that and tweak as needed to match the main 7 channels Dirac settings.
And there you have it. A 11.5 mishmash.
Has that been done? I don't think thats gonna work... These AVRs will power either front highs or front wides... Not both at the same time... They do have outputs for powering those with external amplification though... I also worry there might be audio delay issues between both audio processors

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post #2983 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 05:36 AM
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Yes, this has been done before. About a year ago, I was researching height and wide channels to see if they actually work. I came across a review were the reviewer used a denon and a pioneer receiver together. The denon could only output the standard 7.1 but the pioneer can do both high andwide using the pre-outs.
I should have mentioned that the second processor/avr will have to use pre-outs to an external amp.
As for audio delays, the units I mentioned will give you control of audio delay timings. But I don't believe for H/W delay would be an issue.
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post #2984 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 06:57 AM
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Yes, this has been done before. About a year ago, I was researching height and wide channels to see if they actually work. I came across a review were the reviewer used a denon and a pioneer receiver together. The denon could only output the standard 7.1 but the pioneer can do both high andwide using the pre-outs.
I should have mentioned that the second processor/avr will have to use pre-outs to an external amp.
As for audio delays, the units I mentioned will give you control of audio delay timings. But I don't believe for H/W delay would be an issue.

Interesting, care to post the review link? I'd like to read that... Thanks

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post #2985 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 08:17 AM
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Interesting, care to post the review link? I'd like to read that... Thanks

My gosh man.. You owe me lunch and dinner for a year.. It took awhile to find the review. Also the review was for a The Expendables 2 - 11.1 Neo:X
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/exclusive-the-expendables-2--111-neo-x-audio-review/13896
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post #2986 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Very interesting.  If I went that route, I'd have to apply an outboard DSP (Xilica comes to mind) to all channels for coherence. Hmm--it's certainly something to think about.

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post #2987 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 04:03 PM
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Nah man, the CB4, for reasons I don't understand, can't do 11.4.  It does 7.5, but apparently Neo X and Dolby Pro Logic Z just isn't supported.

I personally have no interest in more than 7.2 but clearly more channels is the new deal: 9 or 11 or ??

I really do find it interesting that as good as the Theta sonics have always been (I've owned a bunch of their products), they always seem to be about 4 steps back. They were very very late in supporting HDMI; while the CB IV is "soon-to-be" it is still not available and digital room correction in SSP's has been available for a very very long time and now with the new wizbang CB IV, they can only process 7.2 and don't support NeoX or Dolby ProLogic Z which other much less expensive SSP's have been supporting for quite some time.

Given my lack of interest in more channels, I would still consider a CB IV assuming it is really at the top of the heap sonically for an SSP and I could get it at the right price. They've got some great engineering talent.

That said, the idea of gluing on a lesser SSP for the heights/rears might get you where you want to go.

OR (my unsolicited recommendation), live with the CB IV as a 7.2 system, use all of the known tricks (most from Mark Seaton) for adjusting surround distances to improve envelopment. adjust sub distances to improve FR of all speakers and see how it goes. Assuming the CB IV is as good as it should be, in a well done room (which you will have) and with great gear (which you will have), you may be perfectly content to live with only the first 98.999% of the potential of your system biggrin.gif

That 1.001% can get really expensive !!!!
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post #2988 of 3340 Old 02-19-2014, 05:28 PM
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My gosh man.. You owe me lunch and dinner for a year.. It took awhile to find the review. Also the review was for a The Expendables 2 - 11.1 Neo:X
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/exclusive-the-expendables-2--111-neo-x-audio-review/13896

Thank you!

That was an interesting read.... Thank you!!

Perhaps BB can get an onkyo 929 (I think the least expensive AvR with 11.1 preouts) and have it handy for those Neo:X blu-rays when they come about!

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post #2989 of 3340 Old 02-20-2014, 03:23 PM
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I really do find it interesting that as good as the Theta sonics have always been (I've owned a bunch of their products), they always seem to be about 4 steps back. They were very very late in supporting HDMI; while the CB IV is "soon-to-be" it is still not available and digital room correction in SSP's has been available for a very very long time and now with the new wizbang CB IV, they can only process 7.2 and don't support NeoX or Dolby ProLogic Z which other much less expensive SSP's have been supporting for quite some time.

You have to realize that Theta is an audiophile company, not a mass market brand. Audiophile companies are NOT innovators. They are perfectors. They do not invent new technologies - they instead take current technologies and tweak and redesign it to reach its highest level of performance. Thus, they are NEVER on the leading edges of technology... honestly, they are too small to have the R&D budgets for that. Their model is to always be a few steps behind the bleeding edge of the mass market, but with a much higher performance level. So, if you want audiophile performance from boutique brands, you must be willing to accept that your gear is NOT going to have all the latest and greatest whiz-bang technology. BUT, it will probably sound better than alot of the latest gear anyway.

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post #2990 of 3340 Old 02-20-2014, 07:38 PM
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You have to realize that Theta is an audiophile company, not a mass market brand. Audiophile companies are NOT innovators. They are perfectors. They do not invent new technologies - they instead take current technologies and tweak and redesign it to reach its highest level of performance. Thus, they are NEVER on the leading edges of technology... honestly, they are too small to have the R&D budgets for that. Their model is to always be a few steps behind the bleeding edge of the mass market, but with a much higher performance level. So, if you want audiophile performance from boutique brands, you must be willing to accept that your gear is NOT going to have all the latest and greatest whiz-bang technology. BUT, it will probably sound better than alot of the latest gear anyway.

I'm pretty sure Krell, Meridian, Classe, ADA, and Datasat are all considered audiophile companies. I'm also pretty sure they all have some form of room correction and have been ahead of Theta in time to market'. So why would you give a pass to Theta because they are an "audiophile company"?

I maintain what I previously said: Theta MAY end up with a great product but they continue to run behind virtually everyone else with the latest SSP options.
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post #2991 of 3340 Old 02-21-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Both points are valid: Theta excels at what it focuses on: sound; although, in the process of perfecting the sound, it has been left behind as far as features are concerned.  I'm going to get the CB4 upgrade, and if the time comes where studios are encoding height, wide, and Auro 3D tracks en masse without adoption of those standards from Theta, then the CB will be moved to a music room and I'll go for the latest Japanese powerhouse from Marantz or Integra (both of which have impressed me in the past.)

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post #2992 of 3340 Old 02-21-2014, 03:45 PM
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Both points are valid: Theta excels at what it focuses on: sound; although, in the process of perfecting the sound, it has been left behind as far as features are concerned.  I'm going to get the CB4 upgrade, and if the time comes where studios are encoding height, wide, and Auro 3D tracks en masse without adoption of those standards from Theta, then the CB will be moved to a music room and I'll go for the latest Japanese powerhouse from Marantz or Integra (both of which have impressed me in the past.)

Sounds like a great plan!!
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post #2993 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 06:10 AM
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LOL, the upgraditis bug is incurable. I'm going to be honest though--I was able to wrestle the Plats to ear-level, and they are the best movie speakers I've ever heard in my life. Literally....they blow me away. But......

but.....

For music, the Legacies take the cake, hands down. Particularly in the midrange. I actually think the Plats do soprano voices better than the Legacies (might be the horns), but dude--the midrange is, and forever will be, owned by the Legacies. The blend between the lower AMT and rohacell drivers is a killer combo. Hence...my need for a separate music room with a pair of Aeris. biggrin.gif

Final verdict: the best overall package is the Legacy, but for folks who want the best of both worlds, I'd say Triad Platinum LCR's for movies and Legacy Speakers for music can make that a reality.

 

I hear ya Matt. That's why when I sold my original pre-AMT Legacies and bought the CAT's, I knew I made a huge mistake. Nothing against the Cats for HT movie material, but I immediately missed the outright smoothness, detail and accuracy of the SE's.

So out with the Cat and in with the Legacy Focus AMT's I went.

 

I have to be fair in that listening to the higher end HT speakers one time in someone else's HT is not a great way to make a high dollar decision. Things sounded a bit different in my room which does not have the required treatments for an HT style loudspeaker. At the second go-around at Gorrilla's GTG this Jan, the Cat's sounded really good. Just not so great in my room.

Conclusion: A good HT requires much more than just the speakers.

 

I hope the Plat's can compare but judging from your response here you will need two listening rooms LOL!

 

Other thing I noticed is even with the newer thin grills that Legacy has added, there is quite a difference with and without the grill and I am betting the same on any speaker that can reproduce the detail that these things can, will suffer from "spatial reduction" if anything is in front of it. I would think an AT screen will do the same.


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post #2994 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I hear ya Matt. That's why when I sold my original pre-AMT Legacies and bought the CAT's, I knew I made a huge mistake. Nothing against the Cats for HT movie material, but I immediately missed the outright smoothness, detail and accuracy of the SE's.
So out with the Cat and in with the Legacy Focus AMT's I went.

I have to be fair in that listening to the higher end HT speakers one time in someone else's HT is not a great way to make a high dollar decision. Things sounded a bit different in my room which does not have the required treatments for an HT style loudspeaker. At the second go-around at Gorrilla's GTG this Jan, the Cat's sounded really good. Just not so great in my room.
Conclusion: A good HT requires much more than just the speakers.

I hope the Plat's can compare but judging from your response here you will need two listening rooms LOL!

Other thing I noticed is even with the newer thin grills that Legacy has added, there is quite a difference with and without the grill and I am betting the same on any speaker that can reproduce the detail that these things can, will suffer from "spatial reduction" if anything is in front of it. I would think an AT screen will do the same.

Yeah man, the Plats are really knockout speakers all around, but the Legacies got it for music. Although, I will change and say after living with the plats for quite some time, the plats are, to me, the best all-around package, but for that smoothness, I gotta have a separate music room. I'll be sure to have you over once everything is setup...im currently working on a *unique* Legacy speaker package for the music room....lips are sealed, for now.
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post #2995 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 06:44 AM
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Yeah man, the Plats are really knockout speakers all around, but the Legacies got it for music. Although, I will change and say after living with the plats for quite some time, the plats are, to me, the best all-around package, but for that smoothness, I gotta have a separate music room. I'll be sure to have you over once everything is setup...im currently working on a *unique* Legacy speaker package for the music room....lips are sealed, for now.

 

Looking forward to hearing all of your stuff. I am hearing the Plats are about as close as you can get for both but as in most cases of one size fits all, there always seems to be a tradeoff.

The cost of the Plats is a bit over the top unless you get some crazy deal.


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post #2996 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 07:52 AM
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I hear ya Matt. That's why when I sold my original pre-AMT Legacies and bought the CAT's, I knew I made a huge mistake. Nothing against the Cats for HT movie material, but I immediately missed the outright smoothness, detail and accuracy of the SE's.
So out with the Cat and in with the Legacy Focus AMT's I went.

I have to be fair in that listening to the higher end HT speakers one time in someone else's HT is not a great way to make a high dollar decision. Things sounded a bit different in my room which does not have the required treatments for an HT style loudspeaker. At the second go-around at Gorrilla's GTG this Jan, the Cat's sounded really good. Just not so great in my room.
Conclusion: A good HT requires much more than just the speakers.

While the Focus may or may not be better than the Cats, as you recognize, I think, you were comparing apples to aircraft carriers. After I owned and lived with my Cats in a very well treated room, I attended a CEDIA where the Cats were on display and it was painful to be in the same room. Had that been my only experience, I would not have owned the Cats on a bad bet.

The Cats are unforgiving and played in an untreated room, they are, in my opinion, not a great speaker (and that's being kind). But put them in a well designed and treated room and I would put the up against anything (I am only addressing the home theater environment).

I have a good friend who owns Magico 5's, Spectral, dCS etc in a professionally designed space.. HIs two channel rig cost about 10 x what I have in my 2 channel rig. Easilly the very best 2 channel system I have ever heard. That said, for HT, he much prefers my room. MUCH better dynamics, much larger scale, etc (AND, he uses SubMersives for his HT use)

The room is, in my opinion, FAR more important than anything else. I'll take a $5000 system in a great room to a $50,000 in a crappy room (I've heard both)

Just sayin' !!
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post #2997 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 08:01 AM
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While the Focus may or may not be better than the Cats, as you recognize, I think, you were comparing apples to aircraft carriers. After I owned and lived with my Cats in a very well treated room, I attended a CEDIA where the Cats were on display and it was painful to be in the same room. Had that been my only experience, I would not have owned the Cats on a bad bet.

The Cats are unforgiving and played in an untreated room, they are, in my opinion, not a great speaker (and that's being kind). But put them in a well designed and treated room and I would put the up against anything (I am only addressing the home theater environment).

I have a good friend who owns Magico 5's, Spectral, dCS etc in a professionally designed space.. HIs two channel rig cost about 10 x what I have in my 2 channel rig. Easilly the very best 2 channel system I have ever heard. That said, for HT, he much prefers my room. MUCH better dynamics, much larger scale, etc (AND, he uses SubMersives for his HT use)

The room is, in my opinion, FAR more important than anything else. I'll take a $5000 system in a great room to a $50,000 in a crappy room (I've heard both)

Just sayin' !!

 

 

Agreed. I have listened to a pretty broad selection of great HT loudspeakers in a well appointed home theater and most of them sounded phenominal.

 

In MY room, which is untreated except for furniture and a nice big modern shag style carpet with good padding, I spent many hours during the day when no one was home, cranking the Legacy's up to the levels I played the Cat's.

Again, in MY room, the Legacy's literally could play as loud and as hard rock as the Cats but with much greater ease of listening and accuracy. 

 

I can't imagine how good the Legacy's sound in a well treated room.

 

It's ashamed Matt wasn't able to do side by side listening.

 

Apples to aircraft carriers? I did not get that impression. I jacked those Cat's WAY up. Stood back, had the sliding doors open and yes they play loud but the Legacy's are a totally different loud. 

 

I think in a treated room the Legacy's can easily slap the Cat's around.

 

I think for me the problem is I found I don't like compression tweeters. Hence.... maybe why the Platinums are getting so much interest these days.


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post #2998 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 09:02 AM
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Apples to aircraft carriers? I did not get that impression. I jacked those Cat's WAY up. Stood back, had the sliding doors open and yes they play loud but the Legacy's are a totally different loud. 

I think in a treated room the Legacy's can easily slap the Cat's around.

I think for me the problem is I found I don't like compression tweeters. Hence.... maybe why the Platinums are getting so much interest these days.

The comparison was about treated versus untreated room - not about the speakers. And I have no reason to doubt that the either the Legacy or the Plat is a great speaker and certainly have the ability to be better than the Cats. (I've heard neither). Given the MSRP of three Platinum speakers is on the order of $20,000 PLUS amps and three Cat 12's are about $10,000 including amps, I would certainly hope the Plats are a superior speakers. (Based on CraigJohns descriptions and since he has heard my Cats, they may be better).

But even if I heard them and agreed they were much better, I would not swap. As I have posted elsewhere, there is ALWAYS something better --- ALWAYS - it literally never ends. I once figured out how much money I had spent on "upgrading" - particularly speakers. I could have EASILY purchased a very very nice second home. It was frightening and, quite frankly, I realized I had a serious problem. At some point, if one is wise, it just needs to stop. I have chosen to do that with a system that is "good enough".

That said, I sure don't begrudge anyone else going for the best. And, I do love listening to other folk's systems. Some day, I do plan on visiting Craig so I can hear his systems (which included "wides")
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post #2999 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 09:53 AM
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Yea the Plats are out of my reach and same here, happy where I've landed.


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post #3000 of 3340 Old 02-22-2014, 03:40 PM
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I have heard the Triad's in a well treated room(Craig's). I have heard the Focus in a ell treated room even though not optimally placed and I have heard the Cats 2 times, both in non treated or the best rooms. It's a shame because I would be interested in hearing how the Cats sound in a well treated room. As soon as I heard them for the first time I could tell why people liked them. But I could also tell that the room had to really be addressed to get the most out of them(at least in my opinion. I know my Focal speakers aren't for everyone. But I have heard quite a number of speakers, not in my room though, and I have found very few I would trade mine for. It's great when you find a speaker that works for you. Would my 1027's work for Matt, Chock or Craig? probably not. But that's OK. They work for me smile.gif. If everyone had the same things and liked the same things it would make life and audio very boring.

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