BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 3303 Old 04-28-2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Submersives have been sold--got a brand new, unopened Marantz 8801 as part of the deal. Now--two black F2's or one [eventually two] F4's? Time to give the mighty Mr. Seaton a call.

Now, to sell the Integra 80.3...

Are the F4's an "official" product with a price one can order or a product that has been discussed but not officially released? I was thinking it was more the latter than the former.

Congrats on the 8801. It is supposed to be a great SSP.
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post #1802 of 3303 Old 04-28-2013, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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The 8801 is featured in the February Home Theater Mag with a very impressive review. Good luck. I can't wait for the next update. JT

I am a subscriber and definitely read the review as soon as I saw it plastered on the cover :-) So far, it sounds remarkable even without Audyssey (I'm not bothering with Audyssey until the Legacies arrive in a few weeks.)
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Well If I knew you were going to sell your 80.3 I would have waited and bought that from you instead of the new upgrade I bought instead. Yes that's right....I'm not revealing what I bought yet. tongue.gif But I'll give you a hint....search my name for recent posts. smile.gif

Ah, well that's certainly a great upgrade. I have the previous year's model in my media room and it's stellar. It used to power my entire theater until I started rolling with Integras.
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Are the F4's an "official" product with a price one can order or a product that has been discussed but not officially released? I was thinking it was more the latter than the former.

Congrats on the 8801. It is supposed to be a great SSP.

It is indeed the latter--although I'm aware of what the F4 will roughly sell for (from AXPONA), it's not ready for order. With the low end that the Legacies are capable of, I won't mind relying on them for low-end prowess until the F4 is officially released--unless the release is a far off...
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post #1803 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 07:51 AM
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Matt, I am very interested in your opinions on the Marantz AV8801 vs the 80.3. The AV8801 is on my short list for an SSP upgrade.

I'm mostly interested in sound quality differences, but also, how solid is the HDMI switching on the Marantz? Does audio and video lock in quickly when changing inputs? How about when you switch from the TV monitor to the projector?

IMHO, my Onkyo 5508 is horrible with HDMI switching. Most times I have to power cycle it in order for the HDMI (video) to lock into a new input or video output...

And lastly, how is the overall ease of use compared to the 80.3?

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post #1804 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Matt, I am very interested in your opinions on the Marantz AV8801 vs the 80.3. The AV8801 is on my short list for an SSP upgrade.

I'm mostly interested in sound quality differences, but also, how solid is the HDMI switching on the Marantz? Does audio and video lock in quickly when changing inputs? How about when you switch from the TV monitor to the projector?

IMHO, my Onkyo 5508 is horrible with HDMI switching. Most times I have to power cycle it in order for the HDMI (video) to lock into a new input or video output...

And lastly, how is the overall ease of use compared to the 80.3?

I might be able to partially answer this question since I have the Denon 4520 (identical DACs and video processor as the 8801). There are dual HDMI outputs, and there is a mode to select which display to use. Since I have mine set to auto, both my TV and projector will display the same image. My TV always beats the projector to displaying the image, but it will only be by about 5 seconds. Audio lock-on has been extremely accurate with no syncing delays. I have heard nightmare stories on video switching from Onkyos, but the Denon has worked extremely well. Only one instance was there an HDMI handshake issue on my projector where the projector would not find the video signal, and actually power cycled itself (from being confused I guess). This was very early in my testing. Once again, my TV has had no issues getting a video signal whatsoever.

I should also note that the 80.3 shares the same 32bit Burr Brown PCM1795 DACs as the 4520 and 8801. In pure direct mode, and the 4520 being set in preamp only mode, I would be completely shocked if there were any major sonic differences between the three units at all.
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post #1805 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

I might be able to partially answer this question since I have the Denon 4520 (identical DACs and video processor as the 8801). There are dual HDMI outputs, and there is a mode to select which display to use. Since I have mine set to auto, both my TV and projector will display the same image. My TV always beats the projector to displaying the image, but it will only be by about 5 seconds. Audio lock-on has been extremely accurate with no syncing delays. I have heard nightmare stories on video switching from Onkyos, but the Denon has worked extremely well. Only one instance was there an HDMI handshake issue on my projector where the projector would not find the video signal, and actually power cycled itself (from being confused I guess). This was very early in my testing. Once again, my TV has had no issues getting a video signal whatsoever.

I should also note that the 80.3 shares the same 32bit Burr Brown PCM1795 DACs as the 4520 and 8801. In pure direct mode, and the 4520 being set in preamp only mode, I would be completely shocked if there were any major sonic differences between the three units at all.

The 8801 isn't a 4520 no matter how similar the parts list wink.gif
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post #1806 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1807 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 04:14 PM
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That sure is purty Matt.

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post #1808 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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That sure is purty Matt.

Thank ye kindly, HTG!
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post #1809 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 05:21 PM
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Thank ye kindly, HTG!

So I said to myself, If Brolic got it like that, he could go from an Integra to Marantz with ease SO CAN I.
I got my credit card out, went to Amazon, put the 8801 in the cart, went to checkout and I put my credit info in..... My computer laughed at me and shut itself off.. What gives?
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post #1810 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 05:35 PM
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So I said to myself, If Brolic got it like that, he could go from an Integra to Marantz with ease SO CAN I.
I got my credit card out, went to Amazon, put the 8801 in the cart, went to checkout and I put my credit info in..... My computer laughed at me and shut itself off.. What gives?

Time to get a new credit card?

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post #1811 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

So I siad to myself, If Brolic got it like that, he could go from an Integra to Marantz with ease SO CAN I.
I got my credit card out, went to Amazon, put the 8801 in the cart, went to checkout and I put my credit info in..... My computer laughed at me and shut itself off.. What gives?

Lol....man, your computer saved you a few hundred bucks!!! Amazon charges full MSRP.
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post #1812 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 05:49 PM
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Congrats bro on the purchase. When are we gonna get a detailed video review?
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post #1813 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Congrats bro on the purchase. When are we gonna get a detailed video review?

Thanks man...no video yet, but I don't think there will be one. Today's SSP's are remarkably similar in functionality, and except for insta-preview, the features are fairly similar to Integra's offerings. A video would probably just have been a rehash of my Integra video, but with a muchhhhhh prettier chassis. :-)
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post #1814 of 3303 Old 04-29-2013, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Matt, I am very interested in your opinions on the Marantz AV8801 vs the 80.3. The AV8801 is on my short list for an SSP upgrade.

I'm mostly interested in sound quality differences, but also, how solid is the HDMI switching on the Marantz? Does audio and video lock in quickly when changing inputs? How about when you switch from the TV monitor to the projector?

IMHO, my Onkyo 5508 is horrible with HDMI switching. Most times I have to power cycle it in order for the HDMI (video) to lock into a new input or video output...

And lastly, how is the overall ease of use compared to the 80.3?

Dennis, although I never had issues with HDMI signal locks, the Marantz locks far more smoothly and quickly than my 80.3 (which is now boxed up and ready to ship to the West Coast) :-) I can't overstate how much more aesthetically pleasing the 8801 is than the Onkyo/Integra offerings. You'd love insta-preview, as you could check multiple sources simultaneously.

I actually skipped the "first-time" setup and I spent the next hour and a half trying to figure out why some ino uts weren't being recognized.....I eventually ran the setup (skipped Audyssey for now) and all is working exquisitely!

Overall ease of use is great....menus are about on par with Integra/Onkyo models. After using Integra for so long, there was slight learning curve, but it's hardly worth mentioning.
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post #1815 of 3303 Old 04-30-2013, 11:32 AM
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The 8801 isn't a 4520 no matter how similar the parts list wink.gif

You are absolutely correct, especially given that D&M added $1,100 to the sticker price of the Marantz. Just like Lexicon selling Oppo's BDP-83 in their unit for $3,500; they are not the same. biggrin.gif


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You are absolutely correct, especially given that D&M added $1,100 to the sticker price of the Marantz. Just like Lexicon selling Oppo's BDP-83 in their unit for $3,500; they are not the same. biggrin.gif



If it makes you feel better, then OK wink.gif
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^ It sure does, I absolutely refuse to be a victim of psychoacoustics! biggrin.gif Oh by the way, how are you liking your 8801?
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^ It sure does, I absolutely refuse to be a victim of psychoacoustics! biggrin.gif Oh by the way, how are you liking your 8801?

Yes, a crazy room is a dangerous thing.
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Marantz 8801


I bet that sounds good. Marantz gear usually does, in my experience.
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post #1820 of 3303 Old 05-01-2013, 12:19 AM
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^ It sure does, I absolutely refuse to be a victim of psychoacoustics! biggrin.gif Oh by the way, how are you liking your 8801?

Finally got things were I want them and all the hard work paid off , it was rough goings at first ,as the 8801 was one of 6 changes made to my setup eek.gif cool thing is I have a good while before I exhaust the current setups potential .
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post #1821 of 3303 Old 05-01-2013, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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In respect to the Denon 4520 vs. Marantz 8801, the comparison is identical to the Integra DHC-80.3 vs. the Integra DTR-80.3--in both cases, the receivers are cheaper and have identical connections to their pre-amp parts. The reason why I go with the dedicated Pre/Pro each time, v.s. the cheaper receiver (for use as a pre-amp) is that there are multiple small design changes that engineers make in order for this to be a dedicated processor that equal, in my opinion, to a product that is greater than the sum of its parts. I can justify $500 for that, and I don't mind paying $500 for the aesthetics. (that's just me)

I"m sure the Denon 4520 is a great device, both as a Pre/Pro....and I'm going to be honest--had I not worked this into the deal for my subwoofer sale, I never would have purchase an 8801 on my own. The Integra DHC-80.3 is just too darn good already to warrant replacement before HDMI 2.0 otherwise.
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post #1822 of 3303 Old 05-02-2013, 08:17 AM
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You are absolutely correct, especially given that D&M added $1,100 to the sticker price of the Marantz. Just like Lexicon selling Oppo's BDP-83 in their unit for $3,500; they are not the same. biggrin.gif



So how does similarity in looks on the back end equate to be units being the same internally? Has anyone actually seen to two units internals and looked at the parts used to determine if they are the same?
It will make sense for D&M to keep certain features and layouts of the external ports (rca, hdmi, etc) the same.... why re-invent the wheel? But, unless someone can show 'REAL' proof that the schematics are point to point exact, except of the obvious XLR outs vs Speaker terminals and integrated amp, We are only guessing.
The 8801 could very well be a 4520 without an internal amp and xlr outs thrown in (not even fully balanced) and everything else is the same. Or D&M could have really put much, much more into the design of the 8801. And if they where benched marked you might see the 8801 besting the 4520 in every category.

So no more speculations and guessing we need the numbers.
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So how does similarity in looks on the back end equate to be units being the same internally? Has anyone actually seen to two units internals and looked at the parts used to determine if they are the same?
It will make sense for D&M to keep certain features and layouts of the external ports (rca, hdmi, etc) the same.... why re-invent the wheel? But, unless someone can show 'REAL' proof that the schematics are point to point exact, except of the obvious XLR outs vs Speaker terminals and integrated amp, We are only guessing.
The 8801 could very well be a 4520 without an internal amp and xlr outs thrown in (not even fully balanced) and everything else is the same. Or D&M could have really put much, much more into the design of the 8801. And if they where benched marked you might see the 8801 besting the 4520 in every category.

So no more speculations and guessing we need the numbers.

Actually, there's no speculation whatsoever, and yes there is in fact a parts listing. I posted the pics to show D&M recycled the platform entirely. For a technical analysis, look at the performance breakdown on both owners manuals and you will see they have identical ratings and noise floor specs (yes, I actually compared both before purchasing the 4520 to make sure I wasn't missing out on any of the alleged sonic gains of the 8801). You can also drop in on the 8801 and 4520 forums and read the comparisons. There also happens to be a complete listing of all the internal Texas Instruments DAC/video/microprocessor chipsets used with respective photographs of the internals to document this. Guess what? The platform is Identical. Oddly enough, they are even sharing the same firmware bugs.

This same debate raged on with the Integra DHC vs DTR units. XLRs? That's fine and dandy, but unless you're going to run 25foot or longer XLRs, you're not gaining anything over short run RCAs. In the end, I fully understand 8801 owners telling themselves they have to justify the extra $500-$1100 price difference for the "best" unit. I would be in the same boat had I purchased that unit instead of the 4520. Given that these units are newer to the market in the past 6 months, I'm still looking forward to more comparison reviews.

Once again, this is psychoacoustics at its best! tongue.gif
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Actually, there's no speculation whatsoever, and yes there is in fact a parts listing. I posted the pics to show D&M recycled the platform entirely. For a technical analysis, look at the performance breakdown on both owners manuals and you will see they have identical ratings and noise floor specs (yes, I actually compared both before purchasing the 4520 to make sure I wasn't missing out on any of the alleged sonic gains of the 8801). You can also drop in on the 8801 and 4520 forums and read the comparisons. There also happens to be a complete listing of all the internal Texas Instruments DAC/video/microprocessor chipsets used with respective photographs of the internals to document this. Guess what? The platform is Identical. Oddly enough, they are even sharing the same firmware bugs.

This same debate raged on with the Integra DHC vs DTR units. XLRs? That's fine and dandy, but unless you're going to run 25foot or longer XLRs, you're not gaining anything over short run RCAs. In the end, I fully understand 8801 owners telling themselves they have to justify the extra $500-$1100 price difference for the "best" unit. I would be in the same boat had I purchased that unit instead of the 4520. Given that these units are newer to the market in the past 6 months, I'm still looking forward to more comparison reviews.

Once again, this is psychoacoustics at its best! tongue.gif

We'll since you laid it out like that, all I have to say is: HA ha.. 8801 owners got played by D&M..

Also.. you can't beat the coolness factor of XLR's regardless if they make a difference on not.
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Also.. you can't beat the coolness factor of XLR's regardless if they make a difference on not.


+1. I totally agree on that. One of my amps is using the stereo XLRs instead of RCA, and it does look more impressive!
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post #1826 of 3303 Old 05-04-2013, 08:16 PM
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Marantz 8801


Hey Matt a new purchase, well done whats your thought on it vs the Integra ? Also why the upgrade?

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Also.. you can't beat the coolness factor of XLR's regardless if they make a difference on not.
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+1. I totally agree on that. One of my amps is using the stereo XLRs instead of RCA, and it does look more impressive!
"...looks more impressive"? confused.gif

Do you guys often take people back behind your equipment to show them the interconnects? If so, why?

IMO, what "looks more impressive" is the far fewer cables required of an HDMI connection.

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We'll since you laid it out like that, all I have to say is: HA ha.. 8801 owners got played by D&M..

Also.. you can't beat the coolness factor of XLR's regardless if they make a difference on not.

Are you sure! wink.gif
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post #1829 of 3303 Old 05-05-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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So the Marantz conked out on me already....won't pass video OR audio. Frustrated doesn't begin to describe my disposition at the moment...

Edit 1: What a piece of crap [until it proves to me otherwise]

Edit 2: It will output to my 24" secondary monitor without issue, but will not output to my projector. The projector is not the issue because sources routed directly to the Projector work just fine, and I've eliminated the Lumagen and Darblet as possible causes already the same way (running sources directly to them). Yay--I get to spend my Sunday troubleshooting, instead of enjoying what little free time I have.

Edit 3: The Marantz 8801 is working and is certainly not a piece of crap--it's simply a very "picky" machine.
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So the Marantz conked out on me already....won't pass video OR audio. Frustrated doesn't begin to describe my disposition at the moment...

Edit 1: What a piece of crap [until it proves to me otherwise]

Edit 2: It will output to my 24" secondary monitor without issue, but will not output to my projector. The projector is not the issue because sources routed directly to the Projector work just fine, and I've eliminated the Lumagen and Darblet as possible causes already the same way (running sources directly to them). Yay--I get to spend my Sunday troubleshooting, instead of enjoying what little free time I have.

Hope your able to figure it out Matt.

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