BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater - Page 94 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2791 of 3341 Old 11-16-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Sweet score just doesn't say it!!!! Congratulations brother!!!! I googled it right quick to take a look at it...........the price jumped out and punched me in the gut so hard, I'm still not breathing biggrin.gif

If I give you my address and pay for shipping on all items, will you give me your throw-aways??? biggrin.gif

Serious dude, I'd love to invite myself over and hang in your theater for a day or two................

LOLlll...I literally laughed out loud at that one. LOL--man it seems expensive at first, but before making a purchase like this, one thing gave me comfort: I don't buy anything else. I don't buy clothes--just a few suits a year for work. Tonight, I went out in a pair of jeans that I"ve owned since '05...I limit my spending to 1) Tithe & Offering, which enable me to spend money through God's grace on 2) Bills, 3) My Lady, and 4) Home Theater.

I definitely plan to have some folks over at the new house, once the theater is complete...I'll let you know. Let the members of the Emotiva Nation unite! cool.gif
audiofan1 likes this.
BrolicBeast is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2792 of 3341 Old 11-16-2013, 07:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff4RFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just down aways from Stanley
Posts: 3,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

LOLlll...I literally laughed out loud at that one. LOL--man it seems expensive at first, but before making a purchase like this, one thing gave me comfort: I don't buy anything else. I don't buy clothes--just a few suits a year for work. Tonight, I went out in a pair of jeans that I"ve owned since '05...I limit my spending to 1) Tithe & Offering, which enable me to spend money through God's grace on 2) Bills, 3) My Lady, and 4) Home Theater.

I definitely plan to have some folks over at the new house, once the theater is complete...I'll let you know. Let the members of the Emotiva Nation unite! cool.gif

I am so down brother!!!!!!

Spinning the rear tire at 150mph while at 3/4 lean angle will put wrinkles in your seat
Geoff4RFC is offline  
post #2793 of 3341 Old 11-16-2013, 09:45 PM
Senior Member
 
PcGeek626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 22

Just amaze how far you come,into your setup. Looking forward to your final build.  :)


Hsu Research HB-1 MK2
Hsu Research Hc-1 MK2
Hsu Research VTF3 mk4 12" subwoofer
PcGeek626 is offline  
post #2794 of 3341 Old 11-16-2013, 09:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 265
Yeah you're into crazy territory here. Next thing you know you'll tell us you're going to bi-amp two monoblocked amps per speaker or something insane like that.
pcweber111 is offline  
post #2795 of 3341 Old 11-16-2013, 10:24 PM
Member
 
paultimm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hey Brolicbeast, I was just wondering if you will be getting the triad gold Inwall or on the wall surround speakers, or are you going to use some other type of surround. I was just wondering, cause I never saw or heard of an all triad speaker system.
paultimm is offline  
post #2796 of 3341 Old 11-16-2013, 10:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
drewTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkingincharge View Post

Come on man stop doing this to me wink.gif

That Theta is stunning and the configuration options seem endless you will not have to upgrade that part of your system for the foreseeable future.

I am subscribing to your build thread as I look forward to seeing the final product . BTW !! Once the room is complete go ahead and send out notices to the local movie houses that there are out of business lol!!!.

LOL...that's if you haven't already put them out of business with your new dedicated room! Man, after doing a bunch of listening tests, the Theta with the Platinums make me feel like I've finally hit the peak of all possible satisfaction. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif I played some key scenes from Star Trek Into Darkness and Man of Steel, as well as my normal bettery of tests late last week, and this is the best sound I've ever heard, in any room, bar none. The Plats were made for processors like the Theta, and the Theta was made for speakers like the Triad Platinums. I got it dialed in, and my mind is just blown. I don't normally gush praise like this, but I love the experience, even though the system is relegated to 2.1 channels until the next theater is up and running.

For anyone out there thinking about making the leap into this category of processor, I strongly suggest it. Dirac will only tighten up the performance, once released later this year.

**Jumps for joy while seated at listening position.**

Congrats man. Very cool. I have Dirac processing in my car. It's clever stuff. I would love to hear it in a HT setup!
drewTT is offline  
post #2797 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 12:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
prepress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Yeah you're into crazy territory here. Next thing you know you'll tell us you're going to bi-amp two monoblocked amps per speaker or something insane like that.

Not that crazy, actually. I did it, and it was good. I had 2 pair of B&K monos, and one pair served mids & highs, one pair lows. Minus one pair, the sound wasn't as full. My Macs serve the purpose now, with their multiple taps.
prepress is offline  
post #2798 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by PcGeek626 View Post

Just amaze how far you come,into your setup. Looking forward to your final build.  smile.gif

Thanks bro!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Yeah you're into crazy territory here. Next thing you know you'll tell us you're going to bi-amp two monoblocked amps per speaker or something insane like that.

Lol...crazy territory is good!!!!...it's funny you mention the bi-amping...I thought about doing that a while back, but with the power these amps have, bi-amping speakers would probably melt the cones. Lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultimm View Post

Hey Brolicbeast, I was just wondering if you will be getting the triad gold Inwall or on the wall surround speakers, or are you going to use some other type of surround. I was just wondering, cause I never saw or heard of an all triad speaker system.

Greetings! I actually do plan to use the InWall Golds....I'll need to order 6-inch studs, but that's one of the flexibilities of building in a (thankfully) unfinished basement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

Congrats man. Very cool. I have Dirac processing in my car. It's clever stuff. I would love to hear it in a HT setup!

Dude, in your CAR??? I didn't know Dirac was THAT big. Wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Not that crazy, actually. I did it, and it was good. I had 2 pair of B&K monos, and one pair served mids & highs, one pair lows. Minus one pair, the sound wasn't as full. My Macs serve the purpose now, with their multiple taps.

That's bananas!!!
BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2799 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 05:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
prepress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

That's bananas!!!

Actually, yes. Both pairs of speaker cables are terminated with banana pins.
smile.gif
pcweber111 likes this.
prepress is offline  
post #2800 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 05:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 265
That was always a dream of mine. Each speaker was bi-amped with monoblocked stereo amps, each channel had it's own sub in addition to the main dual subs. 11/11.2. It would be glorious. biggrin.gif
pcweber111 is offline  
post #2801 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Hahhahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Actually, yes. Both pairs of speaker cables are terminated with banana pins.
smile.gif

L-O-L!!!!
BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2802 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 06:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Yeah you're into crazy territory here. Next thing you know you'll tell us you're going to bi-amp two monoblocked amps per speaker or something insane like that.

Can't biamp the Plats, they only have one set of speaker terminals.

Mankite
mankite is offline  
post #2803 of 3341 Old 11-17-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

That was always a dream of mine. Each speaker was bi-amped with monoblocked stereo amps, each channel had it's own sub in addition to the main dual subs. 11/11.2. It would be glorious. biggrin.gif

I'm actually considering doing that one-sub per channel setup (over time, of course)....five Submersives, each assigned to the L/C/R/SR/SL channels. I found the setting in the processor that allows this, so it would be the equivalent of my five primary speakers being full range, but with a heck of a lot of power. The only thing is, calibrating such a setup is beyond my capabilities. I'd need to hire a professional. Not sure what that'll cost, but I'm sure it won't be pretty.
BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2804 of 3341 Old 11-21-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357

The Theta Casablanca 3HD Review is live!  I love this stuff.

BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2805 of 3341 Old 11-21-2013, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,327
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Very nice review Matt. It does seem like a great piece. I hope you really enjoy it and that the upgrades for it are not right away. Enjoy smile.gif.

It ain't easy being green.
My System
MIkeDuke is offline  
post #2806 of 3341 Old 11-21-2013, 05:40 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,389
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I'm actually considering doing that one-sub per channel setup (over time, of course)....five Submersives, each assigned to the L/C/R/SR/SL channels. I found the setting in the processor that allows this, so it would be the equivalent of my five primary speakers being full range, but with a heck of a lot of power. The only thing is, calibrating such a setup is beyond my capabilities. I'd need to hire a professional. Not sure what that'll cost, but I'm sure it won't be pretty.
5 Submersives with each assigned to a single channel... is a waste of 3 Submersives. In that arrangement, all speakers would be set to Large or Full Range. When all speakers are Large/Full Range, the LFE Channel is re-routed to the front L/R speakers. Therefore only the 2 Front Submersives would be reproducing the LFE Channel. The LFE Channel is reproduced 10 dB louder than the other channels, (it gets a 10 dB boost on playback), so limiting the LFE channel to just the L/R front speakers means those 2 Submersives would be 10 dB louder than the other 3. In addition, the other 3 Submersives would only be reproducing the bass from their own respective individual channels. The L&R surrounds in particular get very little bass content.

Secondly, each sub would be playing a decorrelated signal, (different than the signal the other subs get.) Therefore, you would sacrifice the FR smoothing you get with multiple subs playing a mono signal.

Thirdly, you would only be able to EQ each sub individually. That is not likely to provide the flattest response at the listening position when all the signals arrive together. It is far more effective to EQ a mono bass signal than to EQ 5 separate and different bass signals.

A much better utililization of 5 Submersives would be to run them all off the Subwoofer output, (actually, 4 would probably be enough.) If you have 4 subs, and 2 subwoofer outputs, you could run 2 subs off each output. Then place them around the room where they provide the smoothest response, then run your room correction on that one signal. The Submersive Master/Slave setup is ideal for this purpose.

I can think of no reason to run a subwoofer on each channel. Multiple subwoofers running a mono signal makes more sense, at least to me.

Just my $0.02.

Craig
rcohen and Bunga99 like this.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #2807 of 3341 Old 11-22-2013, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 265
pcweber111 is offline  
post #2808 of 3341 Old 11-22-2013, 05:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I once had a full Polk SRT system with towers front and back. Each speaker sat on it's own sub. I ran it both ways. With all subs set to mono and then with each speaker except the center running full range. The mono setup gave more bass for sure but I preferred the full range setup as it felt way more accurate to me. Not sure how much if any bass was coming from the rear speakers but I did end up leaving it that way.


Mankite
mankite is offline  
post #2809 of 3341 Old 11-22-2013, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff4RFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just down aways from Stanley
Posts: 3,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 1366
Shnikies!!!! I'd love to have heard that set up!!

Spinning the rear tire at 150mph while at 3/4 lean angle will put wrinkles in your seat
Geoff4RFC is offline  
post #2810 of 3341 Old 11-22-2013, 08:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I still miss the SDA technology to this day. The imaging was insane if you were in the sweet spot. Never knew to much about what made those speakers special until after I had sold them.

Mankite
mankite is offline  
post #2811 of 3341 Old 11-22-2013, 09:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff4RFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just down aways from Stanley
Posts: 3,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 1366
I can only imagine. I own a polk set up now, but it's my first and I've gone from Monitor 70's to RTiA9's, now I'm just crazy with my set up (peak into Finally get First Man Cave thread). I have my eyes open for a set of SDA SRS to make a dedicated 2ch set up.

Spinning the rear tire at 150mph while at 3/4 lean angle will put wrinkles in your seat
Geoff4RFC is offline  
post #2812 of 3341 Old 11-22-2013, 09:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
mankite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 18
You never see the SRT's for sale. They were indeed a special speaker. Wish Polk would incorporate that technology into a speaker system again. They only use it in their sound bars now.

Mankite
mankite is offline  
post #2813 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357

I've just heard that Dirac currently only supports one subwoofer channel, but the implementation of Dirac in the Theta expected to support two.  I like bass that I can localize down to around 40Hz or so, which is why the one-sub per core speaker was important to me, but it doesn't make sense to have the entire system calibrated by Dirac, with non-conforming subs supporting the rest of the channels. 

BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2814 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 02:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 908
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Is the price of the Casablanca 4 going to be the same as the 3 or will a price increases accompany?
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #2815 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Is the price of the Casablanca 4 going to be the same as the 3 or will a price increases accompany?

I believe very strongly that the price of the CB will increase by $4k (the cost the 4.0 upgrade) once version 4 is released.
BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2816 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 07:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 3,532
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


I can think of no reason to run a subwoofer on each channel. Multiple subwoofers running a mono signal makes more sense, at least to me.

Just my $0.02.

Craig

What he said. I had full range speakers in all 5 channels and tried to run them full range. (each speaker had either double 12's or double 15's). No comparison to running them as Craig suggested. Save your money and buy two or three and spread them around the room. (or you can send me the money and I will find a great use for it)

New Theater

Don't count the years. Make the years count. Lou Holtz
audioguy is offline  
post #2817 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357

Guys, let me share my biggest reason for wanting to get "full range" performance in each channel: I'm afraid of missing information.  My '07-'12 Klipsch RF-82's could easily go down to around 50Hz loudly; my '13 Legacy Focus SE's could easily go down to 16Hz, but now, my '13 Triad Platinum LCR's cannot be crossed over at anything less than 80Hz  (They can go lower, but the manufacturer and owner recommendation is 80Hz).  This is where my concern comes in.  What if there is a 60-80Hz sweep as, say, a superhero jumps off a building, while, simultaneously, there is an explosion inside the building at 30Hz.  If I'm relying on the subwoofers for the LFE track AND the "bass below 80Hz" information from my Triads, then I'm going to miss one or the other, since the sweep and explosion happen simultaneously.  This is what I'm trying to avoid. 

 

I generally use lower crossovers so I don't miss any information from the LFE, as the subwoofer handles the multi-channel bass information, or vice-versa.  I absolutely agree with Craig and Audioguy that using the mono signal nets the best measuring sound.  I spent a few days with XTZ (and Craig's superb help) figuring out what my room and treatments were doing to my signal, and that was the best bass performance my room ever had.  I'm just concerned that since I'm now mandated to stick with 80Hz I'll miss out on simultaneous bass effects.  Any thoughts on that?  This is a very large concern of mine that I have to solve before I begin theater construction. Any guidance is most appreciated!

 

Edit: if this concern is moot because subwoofers can provide multiple tones simultaneously, then someone please let me know as well.  This isn't something I've given much though to until the last couple of months.

BrolicBeast is online now  
post #2818 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 08:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,389
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I've just heard that Dirac currently only supports one subwoofer channel, but the implementation of Dirac in the Theta expected to support two.  I like bass that I can localize down to around 40Hz or so, which is why the one-sub per core speaker was important to me, but it doesn't make sense to have the entire system calibrated by Dirac, with non-conforming subs supporting the rest of the channels. 
Matt,

There is no doubt you are an astute audiophile. However, if you can really hear bass directionality to 40 Hz, you would be a unique human indeed! smile.gif

Humans perceive directionality of sound by perceiving binaural differences in levels and arrival times, (phase), between the two ears. This is known as the HTRF, or Head Related Transfer Function. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function This is a well-known and documented phenomenon in the field of study known as Psycho-Acoustics. The head acts as a sound "absorber" and sounds originating on one side will be "blocked" by the head and will be "heard" at a lower level on the other side, at the more distant ear. In addition, sounds will arrive slightly "later" in time, and at a different point in the sound "cycle" at the more distant ear. These differences in arrival levels and times allow us humans to "perceive" the direction from which sounds originate.

Have you ever been startled by a sound and immediately turned your head to look for the origin of the sound? It is your human perception of sound directionality that allows you to perceive that directionality. This process works best when the wavelengths of the sounds are close to our human inter-aural distance. However, as frequencies decrease, and the wavelengths increase to large multiples of our inter-aural distance, our ability to perceive a difference in level between one ear and the other drops significantly. More importantly, as the wavelengths increase, there will be much less phase difference, (difference in the point in the sound "cycle"), at the more distant ear. At about 80 Hz, most humans completely lose the ability to perceive or determine the direction of the origin of a sound. Very few humans have a wide enough inter-aural distance, (the distance between the ears), to allow VLF, (<80 Hz), directionality.

Here is a test that checks your ability to hear bass directionality: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_basslocalization.php If you are one of the rare humans who can perceive bass directionality to 40 Hz, (wavelength = 28 ft.), the test will confirm as much. OTOH, if you can't hear directionality below 80 Hz, there will be no benefit to running "full range" channels.

Craig
djbluemax1 and popalock like this.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #2819 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 08:43 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,389
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Guys, let me share my biggest reason for wanting to get "full range" performance in each channel: I'm afraid of missing information.  My '07-'12 Klipsch RF-82's could easily go down to around 50Hz loudly; my '13 Legacy Focus SE's could easily go down to 16Hz, but now, my '13 Triad Platinum LCR's cannot be crossed over at anything less than 80Hz  (They can go lower, but the manufacturer and owner recommendation is 80Hz).  This is where my concern comes in.  What if there is a 60-80Hz sweep as, say, a superhero jumps off a building, while, simultaneously, there is an explosion inside the building at 30Hz.  If I'm relying on the subwoofers for the LFE track AND the "bass below 80Hz" information from my Triads, then I'm going to miss one or the other, since the sweep and explosion happen simultaneously.  This is what I'm trying to avoid. 

I generally use lower crossovers so I don't miss any information from the LFE, as the subwoofer handles the multi-channel bass information, or vice-versa.  I absolutely agree with Craig and Audioguy that using the mono signal nets the best measuring sound.  I spent a few days with XTZ (and Craig's superb help) figuring out what my room and treatments were doing to my signal, and that was the best bass performance my room ever had.  I'm just concerned that since I'm now mandated to stick with 80Hz I'll miss out on simultaneous bass effects.  Any thoughts on that?  This is a very large concern of mine that I have to solve before I begin theater construction. Any guidance is most appreciated!

Edit: if this concern is moot because subwoofers can provide multiple tones simultaneously, then someone please let me know as well.  This isn't something I've given much though to until the last couple of months.
Matt,

This is what "Bass Management" is for. If you can't hear directionality from 80 Hz and below, and all the 80 Hz and below content is re-routed to the subs, you won't be missing anything. The bass will be provided by the subs, and the directionality will be provided by the +80 Hz content.

This is the design philosophy of THX and their BM scheme. Triad conforms to the THX philosophy, (even if they don't get THX certification.) Prior versions of Triad speakers where THX certified. The Platinums completely blow the THX spec's out of the water, and there is nothing to be gained from getting them certified. Nonetheless, they utilize the design concepts of an LCR speaker. Cut them at 80 Hz and re-route the rest of the deep bass to the sub(s).

This design philosophy works for music as well as movies.

Bottom line, there is no "benefit" from using a sub on each channel, but there are some significant compromises, as I posted above.

Craig
popalock likes this.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #2820 of 3341 Old 11-24-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 3,053
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Matt,

There is no doubt you are an astute audiophile. However, if you can really hear bass directionality to 40 Hz, you would be a unique human indeed! smile.gif

Humans perceive directionality of sound by perceiving binaural differences in levels and arrival times, (phase), between the two ears. This is known as the HTRF, or Head Related Transfer Function. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function This is a well-known and documented phenomenon in the field of study known as Psycho-Acoustics. The head acts as a sound "absorber" and sounds originating on one side will be "blocked" by the head and will be "heard" at a lower level on the other side, at the more distant ear. In addition, sounds will arrive slightly "later" in time, and at a different point in the sound "cycle" at the more distant ear. These differences in arrival levels and times allow us humans to "perceive" the direction from which sounds originate.

Have you ever been startled by a sound and immediately turned your head to look for the origin of the sound? It is your human perception of sound directionality that allows you to perceive that directionality. This process works best when the wavelengths of the sounds are close to our human inter-aural distance. However, as frequencies decrease, and the wavelengths increase to large multiples of our inter-aural distance, our ability to perceive a difference in level between one ear and the other drops significantly. More importantly, as the wavelengths increase, there will be much less phase difference, (difference in the point in the sound "cycle"), at the more distant ear. At about 80 Hz, most humans completely lose the ability to perceive or determine the direction of the origin of a sound. Very few humans have a wide enough inter-aural distance, (the distance between the ears), to allow VLF, (<80 Hz), directionality.

Here is a test that checks your ability to hear bass directionality: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_basslocalization.php If you are one of the rare humans who can perceive bass directionality to 40 Hz, (wavelength = 28 ft.), the test will confirm as much. OTOH, if you can't hear directionality below 80 Hz, there will be no benefit to running "full range" channels.

Craig

 

Craig, i cannot localize bass below 80Hz. my wallet already feels a bit heavier:)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Matt,

This is what "Bass Management" is for. If you can't hear directionality from 80 Hz and below, and all the 80 Hz and below content is re-routed to the subs, you won't be missing anything. The bass will be provided by the subs, and the directionality will be provided by the +80 Hz content.

This is the design philosophy of THX and their BM scheme. Triad conforms to the THX philosophy, (even if they don't get THX certification.) Prior versions of Triad speakers where THX certified. The Platinums completely blow the THX spec's out of the water, and there is nothing to be gained from getting them certified. Nonetheless, they utilize the design concepts of an LCR speaker. Cut them at 80 Hz and re-route the rest of the deep bass to the sub(s).

This design philosophy works for music as well as movies.

Bottom line, there is no "benefit" from using a sub on each channel, but there are some significant compromises, as I posted above.

Craig

 

I definitely know about bass management, but my main concern was competing priorities with the 80Hz crossover.  Trying to produce multiple sounds at the same time.  Perhaps the term I'm looking for is "layered bass."  I know tweeters can do it, but i'm not sure about a subwoofer.  A better example than the one I gave before is a Transformers fight, but during a thunderstorm.  If the bass from Optimus Prime's 70Hz cannon blast occurs at the exact time that thunder rolls at 40Hz in the background; the cannon blast in a three second sweep from 70Hz to 50Hz, while the thunder is a seven second 30Hz tone with thunder noise mixed over the tone. I was concerned with which sound gets priority at that exact moment in time?  That was my line of thinking....BUT.....considering that 80Hz is indeed the standard for THX, I'm sure they know what they are doing.  I'm starting to think that movies just aren't mixed with competing effects under 80Hz.  Seems counter-intuitive to at least one major standard.

BrolicBeast is online now  
Reply What's Your System Configuration

Tags
Emotiva Xpr 1 , Marantz Av8801 , Jvc Dla Rs66 , Cambridge Audio Azur Dacmagic 100 Silver , Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player , Panamax M5300 Pm 11 Outlet Clean Power Level 4 Black
Gear in this thread - Av8801 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off