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post #91 of 363 Old 10-18-2011, 06:39 AM
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Great stuff Craig. I am sure the chairs will look and feel great once they are in place.

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post #92 of 363 Old 10-18-2011, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Nice, thanks for the details. I know nothing about this stuff, so I'm all ears/eyes. Have fun.

Hi FOH,

Some background...

I have had a single Crowson actuator underneath my seats for years. I originally had it just on the floor, (carpet over concrete), without the riser. I could shake the seats, but I always noticed that the floor didn't shake, and that I got no sensation through my feet; and therefore I've always found the effect to be compromised. About 6 months ago, I built the riser to try to transmit some tactile sensation to my feet to make the experience more believable. It worked quite well, so I'm now extending it to the new riser and the new seats.

I have 2 friends who's HT's are on the 2nd floors of their homes. They are on "suspended" floors. They both get incredible tactile response from acoustic-mechanical coupling of the bass to their floors. The floors shake and transmit tactile response to your feet, but they also shake the seats and transmit tactile response to your body. It's an all-inclusive experience. This is the effect I'm trying to emulate in my room. My HT is in the basement, on a concrete floor. Without the tactile actuator, I get ZERO tactile response, even with 3 Submersive HP's. It's simply impossible to shake concrete with acoustic-mechanical coupling. The only way I could get anything close to what my friends have is to use a tactile actuator. I looked at all of them, (Buttkicker, Aura, I-beam, etc.), and decided on the Crowson. (The Earthquake wasn't available at that point.)

After installing the actuator and riser, I found there is actually an unexpected benefit to this arrangement over shaking the whole floor. A suspended floor shakes at a "resonant frequency", which means it only shakes when actuated with that frequency, (or the range around that frequency.) So, sometimes you get *massive* shaking when you have LFE at that frequency range... and other times you don't get much shaking at all, when the LFE is outside that range. With a tactile actuator, you get shaking at all frequencies, and you can actually feel the difference between different frequencies.

I have set up the "source signal" for the actuators a little bit unconventionally. I use Audyssey XT32 for room correction. This means that both subwoofer outputs on my pre/pro are exposed to the EQ for that room correction. The tactile actuators don't need or benefit from room correction, so the challenge was to find a source signal without room correction. I could not get one from my pre/pro. Then it dawned on me... since the vast majority of my "quality" viewing/listening is sourced from my Oppo BDP-83, and since it has MC analog outputs, including a subwoofer output, and those outputs are active even when the HDMI connection is in use, I simply connected the Oppo's subwoofer output to the amp for the Crowson directly. I then set the Bass Management in the Oppo to re-route all the main channel bass to the subwoofer output,an viola... a "pure" subwoofer source signal without room correction. The one downside is that the signal is not exposed to the Master Volume Control, so I need to control the "volume" of the actuator manually. I have settled on 2 different settings, one for movies and one for music, with the music setting being about 25% lower than the movie setting. It's a simple matter to set it before listening to one or the other, but there have been occasions where I forget and I get the mvie setting for music...

I am using the Buttkicker mono amp to drive the Crowsons. It delivers 1,000 watts into 4 ohms. It has an LPF and an HPF. I set the LPF at 40 Hz and disable the HPF. I don't like the actuator to shake at higher frequencies. 40 Hz is the highest frequency I find "believable" for shaking. Above that, and it becomes gimmicky and fake. I do enjoy the shaking for the infrasonic stuff. The Crowsons have response down to 3 Hz, as does the Buttkicker amp, so you get really good shaking with the ULF's.

The one downside to using an actuator with a riser is that the riser can become a "speaker." It can make some noise with the shaking. However, it's a low enough level sound that it is completely masked by the sounds from the speakers and subs. I never hear it or notice during normal use. In fact I only hear it when I have the speakers and subs turned off, and I'm just driving the actuator. However, it is potential issue.

Otherwise, I would not give up my tactile response system for anything. It adds a level of immersion and enjoyment that is otherwise not possible in my basement HT.

Pic's to follow...

Craig

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post #93 of 363 Old 10-18-2011, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Great stuff Craig. I am sure the chairs will look and feel great once they are in place.

Hopefully tomorrow night...

Craig

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post #94 of 363 Old 10-18-2011, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi FOH,

Some background...

I have had a single Crowson actuator underneath my seats for years. I originally had it just on the floor, (carpet over concrete), without the riser. I could shake the seats, but I always noticed that the floor didn't shake, and that I got no sensation through my feet; and therefore I've always found the effect to be compromised. About 6 months ago, I built the riser to try to transmit some tactile sensation to my feet to make the experience more believable. It worked quite well, so I'm now extending it to the new riser and the new seats.

I have 2 friends who's HT's are on the 2nd floors of their homes. They are on "suspended" floors. They both get incredible tactile response from acoustic-mechanical coupling of the bass to their floors. The floors shake and transmit tactile response to your feet, but they also shake the seats and transmit tactile response to your body. It's an all-inclusive experience. This is the effect I'm trying to emulate in my room. My HT is in the basement, on a concrete floor. Without the tactile actuator, I get ZERO tactile response, even with 3 Submersive HP's. It's simply impossible to shake concrete with acoustic-mechanical coupling. The only way I could get anything close to what my friends have is to use a tactile actuator. I looked at all of them, (Buttkicker, Aura, I-beam, etc.), and decided on the Crowson. (The Earthquake wasn't available at that point.)

After installing the actuator and riser, I found there is actually an unexpected benefit to this arrangement over shaking the whole floor. A suspended floor shakes at a "resonant frequency", which means it only shakes when actuated with that frequency, (or the range around that frequency.) So, sometimes you get *massive* shaking when you have LFE at that frequency range... and other times you don't get much shaking at all, when the LFE is outside that range. With a tactile actuator, you get shaking at all frequencies, and you can actually feel the difference between different frequencies.

I have set up the "source signal" for the actuators a little bit unconventionally. I use Audyssey XT32 for room correction. This means that both subwoofer outputs on my pre/pro are exposed to the EQ for that room correction. The tactile actuators don't need or benefit from room correction, so the challenge was to find a source signal without room correction. I could not get one from my pre/pro. Then it dawned on me... since the vast majority of my "quality" viewing/listening is sourced from my Oppo BDP-83, and since it has MC analog outputs, including a subwoofer output, and those outputs are active even when the HDMI connection is in use, I simply connected the Oppo's subwoofer output to the amp for the Crowson directly. I then set the Bass Management in the Oppo to re-route all the main channel bass to the subwoofer output,an viola... a "pure" subwoofer source signal without room correction. The one downside is that the signal is not exposed to the Master Volume Control, so I need to control the "volume" of the actuator manually. I have settled on 2 different settings, one for movies and one for music, with the music setting being about 25% lower than the movie setting. It's a simple matter to set it before listening to one or the other, but there have been occasions where I forget and I get the mvie setting for music...

I am using the Buttkicker mono amp to drive the Crowsons. It delivers 1,000 watts into 4 ohms. It has an LPF and an HPF. I set the LPF at 40 Hz and disable the HPF. I don't like the actuator to shake at higher frequencies. 40 Hz is the highest frequency I find "believable" for shaking. Above that, and it becomes gimmicky and fake. I do enjoy the shaking for the infrasonic stuff. The Crowsons have response down to 3 Hz, as does the Buttkicker amp, so you get really good shaking with the ULF's.

The one downside to using an actuator with a riser is that the riser can become a "speaker." It can make some noise with the shaking. However, it's a low enough level sound that it is completely masked by the sounds from the speakers and subs. I never hear it or notice during normal use. In fact I only hear it when I have the speakers and subs turned off, and I'm just driving the actuator. However, it is potential issue.

Otherwise, I would not give up my tactile response system for anything. It adds a level of immersion and enjoyment that is otherwise not possible in my basement HT.

Pic's to follow...

Craig


I can certainly attest to the effectiveness of Craig's Crowson transducer setup. I agree with everything he says above. As a musician, I very much appreciate being able to discern the vibrational differences between bass notes. That's the same feeling I get when playing live music.

Some other tactile transducers just shake at the same frequency for everything. To me, that would not feel right, and would distract me. Craig's riser does indeed help the experience when you feel the vibes through your feet. I am looking forward to setting up the second Crowson - I think it will make the experience even better!

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post #95 of 363 Old 10-18-2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I have set up the "source signal" for the actuators a little bit unconventionally. I use Audyssey XT32 for room correction. This means that both subwoofer outputs on my pre/pro are exposed to the EQ for that room correction. The tactile actuators don't need or benefit from room correction, so the challenge was to find a source signal without room correction. I could not get one from my pre/pro. Then it dawned on me... since the vast majority of my "quality" viewing/listening is sourced from my Oppo BDP-83, and since it has MC analog outputs, including a subwoofer output, and those outputs are active even when the HDMI connection is in use, I simply connected the Oppo's subwoofer output to the amp for the Crowson directly. I then set the Bass Management in the Oppo to re-route all the main channel bass to the subwoofer output,an viola... a "pure" subwoofer source signal without room correction. The one downside is that the signal is not exposed to the Master Volume Control, so I need to control the "volume" of the actuator manually. I have settled on 2 different settings, one for movies and one for music, with the music setting being about 25% lower than the movie setting. It's a simple matter to set it before listening to one or the other, but there have been occasions where I forget and I get the mvie setting for music...

I am using the Buttkicker mono amp to drive the Crowsons. It delivers 1,000 watts into 4 ohms. It has an LPF and an HPF. I set the LPF at 40 Hz and disable the HPF. I don't like the actuator to shake at higher frequencies. 40 Hz is the highest frequency I find "believable" for shaking. Above that, and it becomes gimmicky and fake. I do enjoy the shaking for the infrasonic stuff. The Crowsons have response down to 3 Hz, as does the Buttkicker amp, so you get really good shaking with the ULF's.

The one downside to using an actuator with a riser is that the riser can become a "speaker." It can make some noise with the shaking. However, it's a low enough level sound that it is completely masked by the sounds from the speakers and subs. I never hear it or notice during normal use. In fact I only hear it when I have the speakers and subs turned off, and I'm just driving the actuator. However, it is potential issue.

Otherwise, I would not give up my tactile response system for anything. It adds a level of immersion and enjoyment that is otherwise not possible in my basement HT.

Pic's to follow...

Craig

Hi Craig,

Sounds fun. One detail few consider when setting up tactile enhancers is the propagation delay vs. the physical coupling. Our perception of location and other factors is dominated heavily by the first sound we hear/sense. Being physically connected to the seats, there is no "time of flight" for the shakers while there is for the subs and speakers. In your particular case, you also have to consider the internal latency of the preamp vs. the analog outputs of the Oppo.

Ideally when I've set up a few systems with shakers used I will actually set the microphone flat on the seat and run an impulse-like test with the sub channel low pass in the loop. You can basically line up the mounds of energy between the shaker and the sub, followed by a little fine tuning with real listening. Percussive tracks are more useful for this.

With a little measuring and comparing to what many will approximate by ear/feel, we find that the low pass not only reduces the level of the more localizable upper bass content, but also adds group delay due to the nature of the filter. For a given filter type, ie 12 or 24 dB/oct, half the frequency means 2x the group delay. 24dB/octave is a bit more useful in its scale for most rooms, but 12dB is still in the right direction where a 40Hz L/P adds 5.5-7ms of group delay, and 20Hz adds 11-14+ms. A 24dB/octave low pass filter is a bit more than 2x the amount of delay.

If I recall correctly, you have only one of your two subwoofer outputs in use with Audyssey. I wonder if you calibrate the system with no sub on the 2nd output and then turn it on after calibration, if it will leave the signal alone and also allow you to use a reduced distance setting vs. the subs? While I know Audyssey applies separate delays, I'm not sure if it uses a common correction to both outputs. You could measure the subs with Audyssey off, then turn Audyssey back on and plug the subs in to output 2 for comparison.

Mark Seaton
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post #96 of 363 Old 10-18-2011, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi Craig,

Sounds fun. One detail few consider when setting up tactile enhancers is the propagation delay vs. the physical coupling. Our perception of location and other factors is dominated heavily by the first sound we hear/sense. Being physically connected to the seats, there is no "time of flight" for the shakers while there is for the subs and speakers. In your particular case, you also have to consider the internal latency of the preamp vs. the analog outputs of the Oppo.

Ideally when I've set up a few systems with shakers used I will actually set the microphone flat on the seat and run an impulse-like test with the sub channel low pass in the loop. You can basically line up the mounds of energy between the shaker and the sub, followed by a little fine tuning with real listening. Percussive tracks are more useful for this.

With a little measuring and comparing to what many will approximate by ear/feel, we find that the low pass not only reduces the level of the more localizable upper bass content, but also adds group delay due to the nature of the filter. For a given filter type, ie 12 or 24 dB/oct, half the frequency means 2x the group delay. 24dB/octave is a bit more useful in its scale for most rooms, but 12dB is still in the right direction where a 40Hz L/P adds 5.5-7ms of group delay, and 20Hz adds 11-14+ms. A 24dB/octave low pass filter is a bit more than 2x the amount of delay.

If I recall correctly, you have only one of your two subwoofer outputs in use with Audyssey. I wonder if you calibrate the system with no sub on the 2nd output and then turn it on after calibration, if it will leave the signal alone and also allow you to use a reduced distance setting vs. the subs? While I know Audyssey applies separate delays, I'm not sure if it uses a common correction to both outputs. You could measure the subs with Audyssey off, then turn Audyssey back on and plug the subs in to output 2 for comparison.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your valuable input. I have noticed and recognized the issue you raise. In fact, I had given consideration to adding some delay to the output of the Oppo to compensate for the pre/pro processing. I actually asked Randy Crowson about this, but he had no suggestions. Even their own amps don't have any delay capability, (which seems like it should be an essential element of a tactile actuator system, if for no other reason than to account for the time differences of the physical coupling of the actuator vs. acoustic propagation of the soundwaves.) Nonetheless, they provide no method of doing this.

I had also asked Chris K. of Audyssey if there was a way to use one of the subwoofer outputs without any Audyssey correction and with different delay. He said the delay is no problem; you can just use different Distance settings. However, both outputs are sent the same EQ'd signal and both will have the room correction applied to them. That was why I investigated my somewhat unconventional arrangement.

I guess I should have just come straight to the best source of info I know... you! Do you know of a simple, external device that can add adjustable delay to the system? I could probably use something like the Behringer DEQ2496 to add delay, but that seems like overkill. Is there something simpler and easier to use? I think that is probably the last little detail I need to address to ideally integrate the tactile actuators.

Thanks for any insights.

Craig

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post #97 of 363 Old 10-19-2011, 04:31 AM
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Thanks for the details, watching closely...

The Behringer DSP110 may work, it's got XLR, and 1/4 I/O's

Here's more from Behringer. The bigger 2496 would perhaps future proof you in other ways you're not considering right now, but who knows. I don't know if the smaller DSP110 is even made anymore. With the exception of the link I provided, several retailers list them as unavailable.


Good luck

------------------------------------
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post #98 of 363 Old 10-20-2011, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

…I have set up the "source signal" for the actuators a little bit unconventionally. I use Audyssey XT32 for room correction. This means that both subwoofer outputs on my pre/pro are exposed to the EQ for that room correction. The tactile actuators don't need or benefit from room correction, so the challenge was to find a source signal without room correction. I could not get one from my pre/pro. Then it dawned on me... since the vast majority of my "quality" viewing/listening is sourced from my Oppo BDP-83, and since it has MC analog outputs, including a subwoofer output, and those outputs are active even when the HDMI connection is in use, I simply connected the Oppo's subwoofer output to the amp for the Crowson directly. I then set the Bass Management in the Oppo to re-route all the main channel bass to the subwoofer output,an viola... a "pure" subwoofer source signal without room correction. The one downside is that the signal is not exposed to the Master Volume Control, so I need to control the "volume" of the actuator manually. I have settled on 2 different settings, one for movies and one for music, with the music setting being about 25% lower than the movie setting. It's a simple matter to set it before listening to one or the other, but there have been occasions where I forget and I get the mvie setting for music...

Hmm, this is a good point. I may move my output for my D-Box (audio mode) to my Oppo. The D-Box software also lets me control delay and volume from my remote, so I have those issues covered. Thanks for the great idea!
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post #99 of 363 Old 10-28-2011, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been away for a while attending to some family things... weddings, babysitting grandkids, etc. All good stuff...

Anyway, I'm back and the new chairs are set up along with the Crowson actuators. I have some pics of the install:


Here is a pick of the shipping box.



Inside the box, the two actuators are shipped in their own velvet bags... nice touch.


We changed the mounting of the isolation feet from the original plan. We placed one foot underneath the middle of the arm to stabilize the arm. We eliminated the foot nearest the actuator because the acuator became the needed support in this area.



Here is one of the actuators installed underneath one of the chairs. The other chair will be moved over, on top of the actuator and it will shake both seats.


See next post...
LL
LL
LL
LL

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Here are the seats configured as dual love seats:



Here they are configured as 4 individual chairs using what Acoustic Innovations calls their "Shark Arms." These are removable arms that can be placed between the seats to make them individual seats. They have "fins" that go down into the space between the seats to hold them in place:


Here is Dennis enjoying the fruits of our labors: a DogfishHead 60 Minute IPA.



We later fully enjoyed The Eagles, Farewell 1 Tour HD DVD from our reclined and heated seats. It doesn't get any better than this!!!

Craig

PS. The lighting in the pic's makes the leather look much lighter than it really is. It's a burgundy leather. It's actually a much deeper red than it shows in the pic's.
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post #101 of 363 Old 10-28-2011, 09:32 PM
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Dogfish !!! I like your taste in beer , sir....
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post #102 of 363 Old 10-28-2011, 10:16 PM
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They look fantastic Craig. Nice platform as well. A very big congrats to you .

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post #103 of 363 Old 10-28-2011, 10:21 PM
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Looks great Craig!

Did you officially retire the coffee table?

I'm thinking mine has to go, as it's a big reflection point.
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post #104 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 08:40 AM
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Craig:

You are going to need to pick a new pro football team. The Green Bay colors don't go with the rest of your room

Those chairs look very nice --- properly "loaded" with beer !!

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post #105 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 09:08 AM
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Craig, check your PM and email please .

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post #106 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Dogfish !!! I like your taste in beer , sir....



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They look fantastic Craig. Nice platform as well. A very big congrats to you .

Thanks Mike!

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Looks great Craig!

Did you officially retire the coffee table?

I'm thinking mine has to go, as it's a big reflection point.

The coffee table is gone. Nothing between me and my music anymore!


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Craig:

You are going to need to pick a new pro football team. The Green Bay colors don't go with the rest of your room

Those chairs look very nice --- properly "loaded" with beer !!

I think the Green and Gold look just fine. Watching Aaron Rodgers, Greg Jennings, B. J. Raji, Charles Woodson, Clay Matthews and the rest of the team work their magic on the big screen *requires* the GB colors to be flown close by. The "cheesehead" is now so old it can no longer be worn, but it has taken up a place of reverence atop a Submersive. Mark Seaton, being from Chicago, and likely a Bears fan, probably hates seeing it there, but, oh well...

With all the snow being predicted for today and tonight, I'm gonna camp out in the heated theater chairs. Maybe an LOTR marathon!

Craig

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post #107 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 10:30 AM
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Having Aaron Rogers as quarterback gives Green Bay an unfair advantage. He's almost as hard to catch as Michael Vick but a much better passer. I can't imagine who can beat them this year!

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post #108 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 10:47 AM
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Packers, Packers, Packers, blah blah blah, .....keep up the faith, they need it I'm sure that cheese head deal, could serve you well as a reflection point attenuator, no? My Colts are about to make their move anytime. Just as Aaron Rodgers went on to fame as a Hall of Famer back-up, so can Curtis Painter

J/K, the Packers are truly extraordinary, Rodgers is quite something to watch right now,...exciting stuff.
--------

So, what gives?

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We later fully enjoyed The Eagles, Farewell 1 Tour HD DVD from our reclined and heated seats. It doesn't get any better than this!!!

Is this all we get? I was really looking forward to more detailed description of the integration/enjoyment of the shakers. Are there elements that aren't all in place yet?

All joking aside, once optimized/etc., I really am curious as to the shakers/transducers contribution, and how the experience changes, as I've never had the opportunity to audition anything like that before. I personally value your contributions and even handed approach to sharing details of listening HT experiences with others.


Additionally, Lancaster PA, just noticed that detail. I took a high school German Club trip to your fair city many, many years ago Good times!


Thanks, enjoy the weekend

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post #109 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Packers, Packers, Packers, blah blah blah, .....keep up the faith, they need it I'm sure that cheese head deal, could serve you well as a reflection point attenuator, no? My Colts are about to make their move anytime. Just as Aaron Rodgers went on to fame as a Hall of Famer back-up, so can Curtis Painter

J/K, the Packers are truly extraordinary, Rodgers is quite something to watch right now,...exciting stuff.
--------

So, what gives?



Is this all we get? I was really looking forward to more detailed description of the integration/enjoyment of the shakers. Are there elements that aren't all in place yet?

All joking aside, once optimized/etc., I really am curious as to the shakers/transducers contribution, and how the experience changes, as I've never had the opportunity to audition anything like that before. I personally value your contributions and even handed approach to sharing details of listening HT experiences with others.

I was going to start the "Official Crowson Technology Tactile Actuator" thread over in the Subwoofers, Bass and Transducers forum. I was kinda saving all that for that thread. I'll PM you when I get it posted.


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Additionally, Lancaster PA, just noticed that detail. I took a high school German Club trip to your fair city many, many years ago Good times!


Thanks, enjoy the weekend

We moved here 28 years ago. It's a great place to raise a family. And the weather is *generally* a lot better than the Wisconsin weather. However, this is the first time in 28 years that we've had snow in October. There's about 6" out there and still snowing. Oh well, back to the movie.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #110 of 363 Old 10-29-2011, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Having Aaron Rogers as quarterback gives Green Bay an unfair advantage. He's almost as hard to catch as Michael Vick but a much better passer. I can't imagine who can beat them this year!

"Unfair advantage..." I like that!

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post #111 of 363 Old 10-30-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I was going to start the "Official Crowson Technology Tactile Actuator" thread over in the Subwoofers, Bass and Transducers forum. I was kinda saving all that for that thread. I'll PM you when I get it posted.

Good idea.

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post #112 of 363 Old 10-31-2011, 03:24 PM
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The new seats and riser look great Craig!

How does the new seats compare in comfort to the old seats?

I especially like the fin idea of those seats.

You guys really did a terrific job on the riser too not just with the transducer install but the riser itself and the color/carpet choice. Maybe it just an optical illusion on my end but there are some pics, like this one, that appear the riser top is almost hovering 4-5 inches off the floor Again, very cool choice in color combo.
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post #113 of 363 Old 10-31-2011, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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The new seats and riser look great Craig!

Thanks!

Quote:


How does the new seats compare in comfort to the old seats?

The old seats were pretty shot, especially the sweet spot seat. I had *lots* of seat time in that one. The new seats are much more firm. Plus, they have recline, heat and massage. The heat came in real handy this past weekend when we had that crazy snowstorm. Cupholders and remote storage are icing on the cake. I really like them.

Quote:


I especially like the “fin” idea of those seats.

Yeah, they're a cool feature. When it's just the wife and I, we each get a nice big chair. When the guys are over, and I don't feel like "rubbing elbows" with them, the shark arms provide individual seats. The only problem is, I don't have a good place to store them.

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You guys really did a terrific job on the riser too not just with the transducer install but the riser itself and the color/carpet choice. Maybe it just an optical illusion on my end but there are some pics, like this one, that appear the riser top is almost hovering 4-5 inches off the floor Again, very cool choice in color combo.

Thanks again. I had some leftover floor carpet that I used for the sides of the riser. That's why it matches the floor so well... it's the same carpet. For the riser top, we wanted something matching, but a little more "visible" so people would see it and not step off it unknowingly. My wife, ("she who decorates"), picked it out. I'll tell her you said she did a good job.

Craig

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post #114 of 363 Old 11-14-2011, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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This is totally off-topic for the AV Science Forum, but this is my thread, so WTF...

Packers 45, Vikings 7.

'nuff said.

Jared Allen... KMA.

See ya next year.

Bu-Bye!

Craig

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post #115 of 363 Old 11-14-2011, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

This is totally off-topic for the AV Science Forum, but this is my thread, so WTF...

Packers 45, Vikings 7.

'nuff said.

Jared Allen... KMA.

See ya next year.

Bu-Bye!

Craig

Craig, man - you are too funny!! I'm glad the Packers are on a roll!

Fine Music, Movies, Wine, and Friends - A Life Well Lived!
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post #116 of 363 Old 11-15-2011, 07:45 AM
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Craig, man - you are too funny!! I'm glad the Packers are on a roll!

And my poor Eagles are dead and burried

It ain't easy being green.
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post #117 of 363 Old 11-15-2011, 11:13 AM
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And my poor Eagles are dead and burried

Poor Eagles? Dead and buried....How do think it feels to be a Colt's fan?

Watching Rogers operate so decisively, great decision making etc, sweet. Seeing him, or Brady,.. perform at a high level, it's a real pleasure,...especially in context after watching our 4th string QB, Dan Orlovsky, on Sunday. C'mon man, Orlovsky has a shot at quite a dubious distinction. Being part of two 0-16 clubs, in three years

Any room on the wagon Craig?

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post #118 of 363 Old 11-15-2011, 03:55 PM
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Poor Eagles? Dead and buried....How do think it feels to be a Colt's fan?
Watching Rogers operate so decisively, great decision making etc, sweet. Seeing him, or Brady,.. perform at a high level, it's a real pleasure,...especially in context after watching our 4th string QB, Dan Orlovsky, on Sunday. C'mon man, Orlovsky has a shot at quite a dubious distinction. Being part of two 0-16 clubs, in three years

Any room on the wagon Craig?

True. True. an 0'fer is really sad.

It ain't easy being green.
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post #119 of 363 Old 11-15-2011, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Craig, man - you are too funny!! I'm glad the Packers are on a roll!



Quote:
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And my poor Eagles are dead and burried

I said when they gave Mike Vick that big contract that his value would be determined by his ability to stay healthy. I respect that he plays balls to the wall, but it leads to all his health issues. Now, with 2 broken ribs, the Iggles are in trouble.

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Poor Eagles? Dead and buried....How do think it feels to be a Colt's fan?

And Peyton said he was OK with them drafting a quarterback with their (assumed) high draft pick? Do you believe he said that?

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Watching Rogers operate so decisively, great decision making etc, sweet. Seeing him, or Brady,.. perform at a high level, it's a real pleasure,...

Substitute Payton for the strikethrough. Hopefully he gets back soon.

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especially in context after watching our 4th string QB, Dan Orlovsky, on Sunday. C'mon man, Orlovsky has a shot at quite a dubious distinction. Being part of two 0-16 clubs, in three years

Ouch!!!

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Any room on the wagon Craig?

All Aboard!

Craig

PS. To get back on-topic, I bought the Pink Floyd WYWH boxed set over the weekend. I've listened to a few of the discs: the Hi-Rez, (96/24) MC BluRay Music version, and the original Quad mix. Very different! What sound! The bass is incredible. The surround mixes add a level immersiveness that needs to be experienced. I've only listened in "base" codec, (i.e., no post-processing added.) I will re-listen with DSX added and report back.

At the beginning of Welcome to the Machine, there are some incredible bass tones that really get the Crowson's rockin'! They add a whole new perspective to the music. WOW!

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post #120 of 363 Old 11-16-2011, 09:56 AM
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I bought the Pink Floyd WYWH boxed set over the weekend. I've listened ....

What sound! The bass is incredible. The surround mixes add a level immersiveness that needs to be experienced.

Yeah, WYWH,...strong strong stuff there. Sounds exciting! I've not picked it up yet.

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