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post #61 of 91 Old 02-21-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I'm not saying Audyssey is better for movies but at this time I only have Dirac for 2 channel. Hearing the differences between the two on 2 channel is not difficult. But what I don't know is if the differences between Dirac on an SSP (e.g. emotiva) and Audyssey on my 80.2 with a 7.2 system will be audible!
Got you. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you meant.

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post #62 of 91 Old 05-21-2014, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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My dealer has loaned my his Datasat SSP to learn it so that I can assist his folks in room setup in their soon to be completed new space and in their customer's home. (His folks have heard my room/system and have told the owner how it sounds and I sent him some data to show what tweaking can do to improve the room)

This is one complicated system. I suspect it will be quite some time before I ever get to the listening stage. For those who are familiar with the concept of "expectation bias" I have it. In this case, however, my expectation is that while (on paper) this $22.500 package should (a lot) sound better than my $2500 Integra 80.2, I will be quite surprised if it is really obvious when actually listening to a 5.1 movie. I have really fine tuned my room with treatment and Mark Seaton tricks, and it sounds really really excellent.

My hope is that it does NOT sound a lot better than the Integra as I would then be in a quandary.

We shall see!!
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post #63 of 91 Old 07-07-2014, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: I will be going to California the first part of next month to get a day of training on the Datasat.

While visiting with one of our new neighbors some time ago, she mentioned she was a big fan of the Transformers movies (they are in their late 60's at least).

This weekend we had them over to watch Number 3 and they were absolutely blown away. They had seen it originally in a commercial theater but had never experienced anything like what they heard in our theater (Volume maybe at reference mine 8). At the end of the movie, they were like a couple of teenagers who just got their drivers license. In fact, they like all of the same action movies I do (FWIW, my wife had never seen any of the Transformer movies as I knew she would no like them - she didn't). They will be my go-to invitees to watch all future action flicks !!

As she left the theaters she said: "I don't know what you paid for all of this but it is worth every penny of it".

And I would add: "Amen"
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post #64 of 91 Old 07-08-2014, 04:10 PM
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Very nice theater room! Excellent job on the build!

Respectfully,
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post #65 of 91 Old 07-25-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
+1!! Love your room - great job!!
Thank you so much. I had not looked at your room in a while. Your screen is much too small and you don't have enough woofage!!

That is one large screen. Massively large.

Eight 18" drivers is a serious amount of air movement. I'm in a converted loft and with my 4 SubMersives (8 15 inch drivers), the ENTIRE room moves in heavy bass scenes. If I put 18's in here, I would end up on the first floor.

Thanks again for the complement.

It's a fun addiction/hobby (usually!)
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post #66 of 91 Old 07-25-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thank you so much. I had not looked at your room in a while. Your screen is much too small and you don't have enough woofage!!

That is one large screen. Massively large.

Eight 18" drivers is a serious amount of air movement. I'm in a converted loft and with my 4 SubMersives (8 15 inch drivers), the ENTIRE room moves in heavy bass scenes. If I put 18's in here, I would end up on the first floor.

Thanks again for the complement.

It's a fun addiction/hobby (usually!)


Hey, 4 Submersives is crazy (in a good way) too - I used to have 2 of them so I know how awesome those subs are!!
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post #67 of 91 Old 07-30-2014, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Gain Matching vs Level Matching

When I first installed my 4 SubMersives, I used Gain Matching (see description by CraigJohn in the SubMersive thread) and never paid much attention to what might happen if I level matched. When I built my new theater, I also set up the subs with gain matching.

A few weeks ago, I decided to try level matching and see what happened. This was prompted by reading about a few different multi-sub set up procedures and my own curiosity. The audible results were significantly different (can't tell you why since the FR looked virtually identical after Audyssey did it's thing). And for a while, I REALLY liked it for moves but not as much for music. The bass in movies was just stupid (good?). Over time, I began to hear things in some parts of the bass spectrum (in movies and music) that did not sound correct and the bass in music sounded "thick" in some instances.

So I decided to compare the uncorrected FR of the two methods. Since my front subs and rear subs are different distances from the MLP, I grouped them that way and assigned
the fronts to Sub Out 1 and the rears to Sub Out2. Of course Audyssey set up different distances (and trims) for each group of subs. The actual level of the gain matching FR was a bit lower than the level matching, I adjusted them to be the same when I plotted and compared them. Here is the plot:



As you can see, Gain matched provided better uncorrected results.

The next plot is after setting the sub distances the same and comparing that to the Audyssey assigned distance for each sub group. You can see the huge dip near 100hz.



Finally, I started physically moving the rear subs, used gain matching and ran all four subs from Sub Out 1. What I ended up with is FR almost as good from 20hx up (the dip around 100 means nothing since (1) Audyssey fixes it and (2) I crossover below it. What I gained is very nice relative increase in output below 20hz.



FR after Audyssey does its magic (no smoothing - true for all plots):



As Craig noted in a previous post, if you use both sub outs, Audyssey uses level matching so you would need to split the differences in the two trim levels that Audyssey selects. I don't have that issue in this approach.

Sonically, I love how it sounds for movies and have not listened to music but will do so later today. It sounds better from an accuracy perspective than any time I have owned them but not as much fun as when I had level matched them - but I have yet to hear the thickness I heard when they were set up that way.



Last edited by audioguy; 07-30-2014 at 03:21 PM.
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post #68 of 91 Old 07-30-2014, 04:28 PM
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This is why I love tweaking and endlessly messing with stuff. Well, first and foremost because I have fun doing it, and second every once in awhile you have a "breakthrough" tweak that changes things for the better and you leave that alone.

I agree with the gain matching and the reason behind it, but if level matching gives you that response and that much boost below 20hz it's a no brainer!!

However, to be sure I would run some compression sweeps (I hate doing it myself ) to make sure that your new setup isn't taxing 1 sub (or 2 or whatever) a lot more now giving you less headroom in reality than you had before.

No smoothing too!!! Wow, just wow with that last graph!! Well done.
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post #69 of 91 Old 07-30-2014, 04:29 PM
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Oh wait, I think I missed it... is your last graph back to gain matched? If so, win-win!
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post #70 of 91 Old 07-31-2014, 05:18 AM
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Nice looking graphs Audioguy. My subs are still gain matched but I did have to use Craig's distance tweak since I am using both sub outs on the Denon 4311ci. I recently bought my wife a laptop so I'm planning on getting a USB microphone and load REW onto her laptop. Which mic do you use?

Or I could just pay you to come over the house and measure my system.

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post #71 of 91 Old 07-31-2014, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post
Nice looking graphs Audioguy. My subs are still gain matched but I did have to use Craig's distance tweak since I am using both sub outs on the Denon 4311ci. I recently bought my wife a laptop so I'm planning on getting a USB microphone and load REW onto her laptop. Which mic do you use?

Or I could just pay you to come over the house and measure my system.
I have the UMK mic for REW but have not used it as I don't use REW. I may need to learn to use it since I am playing with the Datasat SSP and it does not calculate distances and will need some way to electronically determine distances. There is a way to do that with OmniMic which is what I use.

I would consider doing the measurements for you once my laptop is repaired and the charge will be zero. Give me some dates (PM) and I will take a look.
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post #72 of 91 Old 07-31-2014, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ran Dirac last night and really love the results for music. I can't explain why but the bass just sounds so much more natural and less thumpy than when listening through the Integra with Audyssey. As a reminder, I run the output of the server through the Integra and use it for bass management but turn Audyssey off.
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post #73 of 91 Old 07-31-2014, 07:15 AM
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Love the look of your room. Simple and elegant, with a nice color scheme. I bet it sounds equally impressive. Congratulations.
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post #74 of 91 Old 07-31-2014, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post
Love the look of your room. Simple and elegant, with a nice color scheme. I bet it sounds equally impressive. Congratulations.
Thanks for your kind words. This hobby (or more appropriately ADDICTION) can be lots of fun but on occasion, frustrating (like when a PC crashes). Our theater gives us lots of pleasure for movies and me lots of pleasure for music.

I spend a lot of time "tweaking" to extract the best possible sound from the system/room and over time it gets a little bit better. This is actually my 5th theater (2 in one home, 2 in the next home and now this one) and each is more fun than the last.

I actually had a "media room" even before then in the mid 1980's with a front projection TV (Mitsubishi 50 inch), 2 front speakers, 2 rear speakers, a Laser Disk Player and VCR with some surround synthesis box that I don't recall the name of.

Thanks again.
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post #75 of 91 Old 08-04-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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After setting my subs up as a single unit, i reran Audyssey. As many know, in a multi-sub environment, Audyssey does not do very well in assigning the sub distance. Below is a chart comparing the Audyssey selected distance versus the modified one for the left front speaker:

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The following is for the center speaker. Not the same level of improvement but a bit better nonetheless:

[/URL]
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post #76 of 91 Old 08-31-2014, 01:35 AM
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Nice room and gear.

I am sure it sounds excellent.
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post #77 of 91 Old 08-31-2014, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice room and gear.

I am sure it sounds excellent.
Thank you so much. Being now retired, I am able to allow my OCDness to manifest itself by spending lots of time tweaking and calibrating my existing room/system to extract all that is possible.

We do enjoy it a lot and now that college football is back, I move into the theater on Saturday mornings for Game Day and leave about midnight.

Go Noles!!
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post #78 of 91 Old 08-31-2014, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Nice room and gear.

I am sure it sounds excellent.
Thank you so much. Being now retired, I am able to allow my OCDness to manifest itself by spending lots of time tweaking and calibrating my existing room/system to extract all that is possible.

We do enjoy it a lot and now that college football is back, I move into the theater on Saturday mornings for Game Day and leave about midnight.

Go Noles!!
I have been reading a lot about the seatons now and i am sure my next upgrade will be that! currently running an Atlantic Technology 11.3 setup.

Which is:
8200e fronts
8200e SR surrounds
4400's for wide,height and s.backs
642e subs x3

Marantz AV-8801 using XT32
Emotiva XPA-3 x1
Emotiva XPA-5 x2

Wireworld cables for everything:
XLR,HDMI,Sub cables and power chords

Panasonic PT-AE8000 3D
113" 1.4 SI Black Diamond Screen
Chord Carnival Silverscreen Speaker cables.


Will do the Audyssey pro calibraton soon as i already have the kit.


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post #79 of 91 Old 08-31-2014, 06:39 AM
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Good morning Chuck, I hope you are having a fabulous Labor Day weekend.

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post #80 of 91 Old 09-24-2014, 01:10 PM
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audioguy,


First..very nice room. I love the look.


I have a question about your GIK panels because I also have some. Specifically the ones in the back of the room....are they standard size (2x4's) or are they custom sized? I can't tell by looking at the pictures.


Thanks,

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post #81 of 91 Old 09-24-2014, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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audioguy,


First..very nice room. I love the look.


I have a question about your GIK panels because I also have some. Specifically the ones in the back of the room....are they standard size (2x4's) or are they custom sized? I can't tell by looking at the pictures.


Thanks,
They are custom panels. They are monster bass traps with scatter plates and are 2 x 5.
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post #82 of 91 Old 09-30-2014, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice room
Thank you and welcome to AVS.
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post #83 of 91 Old 10-20-2014, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Couple of updates:

I finally installed a very quiet (.3 sones) bathroom exhaust fan (Panasonic FV-15VQ5) in the equipment room to reduce the heat build up from the equipment. While there is an AC duct in the equipment room, the thermostat is in the theater. It worked WAY better than expected. The equipment room has about 750 cf and the fan pulls 150 cfpm. Apparently, because it is a (very) sealed room, it pull air out of the AC duct (in order to deal with the negative pressure) from the equipment room which is connected to the theater duct work and gets air from the theater into the equipment room. After watching a 2 hour movie with the equipment room door closed, the temp in the equipment room was identical to the temp in the theater. It is usually much, much, much warmer.

I have been playing witth the Datasat RS20i. If you win the lottery, put one on order. Fully fleshed out (base 16 channel product plus Auro plus Atmos plus the Dirac setup kit), you are probably close to $30,000. We tested this against my existing Integra blind and level matched. The Integra was spectacular and while the RS20i was better, it was not 10 times better. I won't be buying one of those any time soon

The two places it excelled was surround envelopment and bass. I actually didn't see the bass getting any better but it did. Very nice product - if you can afford it and want (need?) the best.

Last edited by audioguy; 10-20-2014 at 05:54 PM.
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post #84 of 91 Old 11-13-2014, 01:41 PM
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Hey Chuck!

Been meaning to drop by your thread for ages. What can I say that hasn't already been said? What a fabulous room you have made there. And how I envy you those Seaton speakers. I'd buy them in a heartbeat if there was space in my small room for them.

So... what will you be doing for Atmos then?
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post #85 of 91 Old 11-13-2014, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Chuck!

Been meaning to drop by your thread for ages. What can I say that hasn't already been said? What a fabulous room you have made there. And how I envy you those Seaton speakers. I'd buy them in a heartbeat if there was space in my small room for them.

So... what will you be doing for Atmos then?
Thank you so much for the kind words. On occasion I get too caught up in diddling and fiddling and measuring and sort of forget why I actually built the room.

Actually, Cat8's might work very well in your room for LCR's and in a room the size of yours, it would easily equal the 12's in my room.

I have purchased and am waiting delivery of the Marantz 7702. I didn't need the amps and liked the XLR connectors. First time Marantz owner.

I am undecided on the speakers. Part of me wants in-ceiling for cosmetic reasons but (a) not interested in putting a hole in the ceiling since I spent a lot of money trying to make the room as leak-proof as possible; (b) concerned about pointing, non-pointing and dispersion pattern; and (c) do-overs are messy and expensive so the trial and error approach (like what you did) is out of the question.

That takes me to on-ceiling. The ones you and Rodger and a few others have selected solves a, b, and c above but loses the cosmetic battle + they hang down so low and I have my 4 surrounds high on the wall, I am concerned about the angles. In fact, now that I think about it, when I did my calculations on the angles, I used a spot on the ceiling when in fact it would be about a foot lower than that. I am standing by until Rodger posts his results since his room is a good bit smaller and his surrounds are also high on his walls.

I have also talked to Mark Seaton on speakers he would make (with external amp and bi-amped) but when he gave me a guesstimate on the pricing, I needed instant medical attention.. They would basically be like his Sparks and priced accordingly.

And while I think having all matching speakers would be nice, I think once they are all Audysseyized, the differences become pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things. I have a friend who has Dunlavy surrounds (4) and center channel, Magico L + R, Seaton subs (2 SubMersives and 2 of those ginormous Terraforms) and is getting yet another brand of 4 speakers for his ceiling. I really do not hear any issues when there is a pan through his front three speakers.

All that to say, I won't be getting Seaton ceiling speakers unless I win the lottery soon!!

And by the way; Audyssey on his 5200 did a MUCH better job than Audyssey on his 80.3. Bass response below 20hz was better AND, amazingly, the splice between his subs and mains/center was spot on. No adjustment in sub distance necessary. That has NEVER happened to him or me. Also, we both liked what the Dolby Surround option did better than PLZIIx (or whatever it's called).

I purchased TF4 and it truly is an awful movie! That said, the audio is off the charts. I kept cranking up the volume until I was pretty close to reference. And since I'm on the second floor, LOTS of physical room movement. Interestingly enough, on some of the "fly over" scenes that were touched on in the various comments, because my surrounds are high, I had over the head experiences as well. Once I get my speakers selected and mounted and in the system, I will listen to at least parts of it again.

Thanks again for all of the effort you put into this forum. Much appreciated.
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post #86 of 91 Old 11-13-2014, 03:57 PM
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Thank you so much for the kind words. On occasion I get too caught up in diddling and fiddling and measuring and sort of forget why I actually built the room.
It's easily done - the room can become the hobby and it's easy to forget that the purpose of the room is to reproduce music and/or movies.

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Actually, Cat8's might work very well in your room for LCR's and in a room the size of yours, it would easily equal the 12's in my room.
Hmmm.... I will have to check those out.

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I have purchased and am waiting delivery of the Marantz 7702. I didn't need the amps and liked the XLR connectors. First time Marantz owner.
Looks like a great unit - and as you say, all you need are the preouts.

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I am undecided on the speakers. Part of me wants in-ceiling for cosmetic reasons but (a) not interested in putting a hole in the ceiling since I spent a lot of money trying to make the room as leak-proof as possible; (b) concerned about pointing, non-pointing and dispersion pattern; and (c) do-overs are messy and expensive so the trial and error approach (like what you did) is out of the question.
It's a difficult decision for sure. Your room is spectacularly good-looking so I can understand you wanting to keep it that way. In-ceilings will be difficult for you though and could easily undo a lot of the time, money and effort you've put into soundproofing the space. I am fortunate in that way - I often use my room, as you do, after Mrs Keith has gone to bed, and I like to listen close to Reference, but I have the huge advantage that Mrs K can sleep through anything (she has slept through an earthquake one time, literally) so the sound from the HT doesn't bother her at all. And our bedroom is right above the HT too!

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That takes me to on-ceiling. The ones you and Rodger and a few others have selected solves a, b, and c above but loses the cosmetic battle + they hang down so low and I have my 4 surrounds high on the wall, I am concerned about the angles. In fact, now that I think about it, when I did my calculations on the angles, I used a spot on the ceiling when in fact it would be about a foot lower than that. I am standing by until Rodger posts his results since his room is a good bit smaller and his surrounds are also high on his walls.
Roger is using the bigger Di6 on his ceiling whereas I am using the smaller Di5. The Di5 don't hang down very low - this was my reason for selecting those rather than the bugger Di6 models - I didn't want them dominating my Hobbit-sized space. But in your much bigger room, they may well disappear. The aesthetics of the Tannoys aren't as bad as they look, once mounted. They do have a somewhat 'industrial' feel to them but I don't dislike that. And, TBH, my room is so dark when I am in there that I can’t actually see the ceiling speakers at all - even on bright parts of the movie.

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I have also talked to Mark Seaton on speakers he would make (with external amp and bi-amped) but when he gave me a guesstimate on the pricing, I needed instant medical attention.. They would basically be like his Sparks and priced accordingly.
Oops! I wondered if Mark might have a solution for you which is why I asked really. But yeah... it's crazy to pay megabucks for speakers that handle so little of the total sound.

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And while I think having all matching speakers would be nice, I think once they are all Audysseyized, the differences become pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things. I have a friend who has Dunlavy surrounds (4) and center channel, Magico L + R, Seaton subs (2 SubMersives and 2 of those ginormous Terraforms) and is getting yet another brand of 4 speakers for his ceiling. I really do not hear any issues when there is a pan through his front three speakers.
This is so true. I used to be in the 'you must timbre match' camp, but not any more. With competent room EQ like XT32, the speakers are brought into line with each other to a remarkable degree. I have matching M&K S150 LCR speakers, and all my others are Tannoys and once Audyssey has done its thing I can't hear any significant tonal changes on pans from the front to rear or to the overheads. I think timbre matching was very important in the days before electronic REQ was commonplace, but not so much these days.

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All that to say, I won't be getting Seaton ceiling speakers unless I win the lottery soon!!
And even if you did, TBH I think it would be crossing the line between spending money and wasting money.

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And by the way; Audyssey on his 5200 did a MUCH better job than Audyssey on his 80.3. Bass response below 20hz was better AND, amazingly, the splice between his subs and mains/center was spot on. No adjustment in sub distance necessary. That has NEVER happened to him or me. Also, we both liked what the Dolby Surround option did better than PLZIIx (or whatever it's called).
This is something I have been commenting on recently. My Denon 5200 calibration using plain old XT32 has delivered a result that exceeds what I was getting before with Pro + XT32 from my Onkyo 5509 flagship prepro. I have also not been able to improve the splice - for the first time ever. I have no real understanding of why this should be so, but several people are reporting the same. I find it hard to believe that Audyssey have improved XT32 in some way and then decided not to tell anyone. Of course, they have had to fiddle with XT32 in order to accommodate Atmos and there is the possibility, I guess, that they may have made some changes, either deliberately or inadvertently. But there is no denying my graph showing the cal results from XT32 and from Pro + XT32 on the Onk. The latest graph is at least as good, and possibly better. I don't understand it but I ain't complaining.

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I purchased TF4 and it truly is an awful movie! That said, the audio is off the charts. I kept cranking up the volume until I was pretty close to reference. And since I'm on the second floor, LOTS of physical room movement. Interestingly enough, on some of the "fly over" scenes that were touched on in the various comments, because my surrounds are high, I had over the head experiences as well. Once I get my speakers selected and mounted and in the system, I will listen to at least parts of it again.
TF4 has a truly awesome soundtrack IMO. And with Atmos engaged it has a 'solidity' that I have never heard before. Each sound seems to have a physical presence in the room - not in overheads but also in all channels. I am looking forward to the Atmos release of Gravity in February. Another one I'd love to see is Godzilla - that has a stupifyingly good 7.1 soundtrack and it would be, I am sure, just amazing as an Atmos Bluray.

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Thanks again for all of the effort you put into this forum. Much appreciated.
Thanks for the kind words - also much appreciated.
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post #87 of 91 Old 11-13-2014, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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The Audyssey thing seems to be a great freebie!! I will be interested in hearing what it does in my room. 99.99999999% of the difference we heard in our blind test between the Integra 80.3 and the $25,000 Datasat was the difference between Audyssey and Dirac. It is clear that Audyssey has improved. I still have the switch box I created for our blind testing and once I get my new system up and running, will compare them blind. This time, however I will not pre-listen to each system. While the listening test was blind, the differences were so obvious that once we knew what each sounded like, the blind part didn't help (only running a full 7.1 corrected system out of each SSP). I think the results may be much different. And if that's the case, there would be NO justification for purchasing something like the XMC since it can't support 3D and won't have a better room correction system.

This whole room correction technology blows me away. I worked for SigTech for 10 years (digital room correction) and to install enough boxes to do a 7.1 system would cost somewhere between $25,000 and $30,000 (15 to 20 years ago). MiniDSP nanoAVR will take an 8 channel HDMI input and you can do Dirac on all 8 channels for (drum roll please): $549.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've noted that you have some time in the past lived in the US. Are you originally from here or from the UK?
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The Audyssey thing seems to be a great freebie!! I will be interested in hearing what it does in my room. 99.99999999% of the difference we heard in our blind test between the Integra 80.3 and the $25,000 Datasat was the difference between Audyssey and Dirac. It is clear that Audyssey has improved. I still have the switch box I created for our blind testing and once I get my new system up and running, will compare them blind. This time, however I will not pre-listen to each system. While the listening test was blind, the differences were so obvious that once we knew what each sounded like, the blind part didn't help (only running a full 7.1 corrected system out of each SSP). I think the results may be much different. And if that's the case, there would be NO justification for purchasing something like the XMC since it can't support 3D and won't have a better room correction system.
I agree. IMO modern electronics don't really have a 'sound' so any differences are due to REQ or DSP. The only justification I can see for the huge cost of the Datasats and Altitudes of this world are the feature sets, or unique feature's like Trinnov's speaker remapping (which isn't much use to me, or you, as we have our speakers where they belong anyway). The Altitude's 24.1.10 capability might be worth the money to someone with a commercial-sized HT but again serves no purpose for me. Other than those things, my 5200 will sound just as good as anything else.

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This whole room correction technology blows me away. I worked for SigTech for 10 years (digital room correction) and to install enough boxes to do a 7.1 system would cost somewhere between $25,000 and $30,000 (15 to 20 years ago). MiniDSP nanoAVR will take an 8 channel HDMI input and you can do Dirac on all 8 channels for (drum roll please): $549.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing isn’t it? Moore's Law.

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I've noted that you have some time in the past lived in the US. Are you originally from here or from the UK?
I am from the UK. I lived and worked for 3 years in LA many years ago and have always regretted returning to the UK. I also owned a home in Florida for about 15 years and was a very frequent visitor. I can’t remember how many times I have visited the States - it is dozens. The US feels like my 'spiritual home' - I have no idea why, but it does. Whenever I arrive in the US, I feel like I have 'come home'. Had the same feeling on vacation last week in Florida. Unfortunately, I left it too late (family reasons) to emigrate to the US and now they won't have me because I don't meet the age profile any more. When I (rarely) use the UK Av forums, I always feel like a 'foreigner' there, but here I feel right at home. Odd thing isn't it?
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post #89 of 91 Old 11-13-2014, 06:08 PM
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Thank you so much for the kind words. On occasion I get too caught up in diddling and fiddling and measuring and sort of forget why I actually built the room.

Actually, Cat8's might work very well in your room for LCR's and in a room the size of yours, it would easily equal the 12's in my room.

I have purchased and am waiting delivery of the Marantz 7702. I didn't need the amps and liked the XLR connectors. First time Marantz owner.

I am undecided on the speakers. Part of me wants in-ceiling for cosmetic reasons but (a) not interested in putting a hole in the ceiling since I spent a lot of money trying to make the room as leak-proof as possible; (b) concerned about pointing, non-pointing and dispersion pattern; and (c) do-overs are messy and expensive so the trial and error approach (like what you did) is out of the question.

That takes me to on-ceiling. The ones you and Rodger and a few others have selected solves a, b, and c above but loses the cosmetic battle + they hang down so low and I have my 4 surrounds high on the wall, I am concerned about the angles. In fact, now that I think about it, when I did my calculations on the angles, I used a spot on the ceiling when in fact it would be about a foot lower than that. I am standing by until Rodger posts his results since his room is a good bit smaller and his surrounds are also high on his walls.

I have also talked to Mark Seaton on speakers he would make (with external amp and bi-amped) but when he gave me a guesstimate on the pricing, I needed instant medical attention.. They would basically be like his Sparks and priced accordingly.

And while I think having all matching speakers would be nice, I think once they are all Audysseyized, the differences become pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things. I have a friend who has Dunlavy surrounds (4) and center channel, Magico L + R, Seaton subs (2 SubMersives and 2 of those ginormous Terraforms) and is getting yet another brand of 4 speakers for his ceiling. I really do not hear any issues when there is a pan through his front three speakers.

All that to say, I won't be getting Seaton ceiling speakers unless I win the lottery soon!!

And by the way; Audyssey on his 5200 did a MUCH better job than Audyssey on his 80.3. Bass response below 20hz was better AND, amazingly, the splice between his subs and mains/center was spot on. No adjustment in sub distance necessary. That has NEVER happened to him or me. Also, we both liked what the Dolby Surround option did better than PLZIIx (or whatever it's called).

I purchased TF4 and it truly is an awful movie! That said, the audio is off the charts. I kept cranking up the volume until I was pretty close to reference. And since I'm on the second floor, LOTS of physical room movement. Interestingly enough, on some of the "fly over" scenes that were touched on in the various comments, because my surrounds are high, I had over the head experiences as well. Once I get my speakers selected and mounted and in the system, I will listen to at least parts of it again.

Thanks again for all of the effort you put into this forum. Much appreciated.
I will be anxious to hear your impressions on the 7702. It is on my short list, along with the Marantz 8801(assuming a good deal can be had once the 8802's come out) to integrate in my system. Atmos isn't a priority for me, just something that has XLR's to compliment my new CAT-12's.

Mark has also mentioned his surrounds to me and I have interest, but the price is a bit higher than I would like...so who knows.
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post #90 of 91 Old 11-13-2014, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I will be anxious to hear your impressions on the 7702. It is on my short list, along with the Marantz 8801(assuming a good deal can be had once the 8802's come out) to integrate in my system. Atmos isn't a priority for me, just something that has XLR's to compliment my new CAT-12's.

Mark has also mentioned his surrounds to me and I have interest, but the price is a bit higher than I would like...so who knows.
The question for you then is the demonstrably improved ability of Audyssey on the 5200/7702 also in the 8801 and I will have no way to test that.

Also, the Dolby Upmixer in the newer products to my ears and those of a friend is superior to Dolby PL xII and you don't get that in the 8801.
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