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post #61 of 79 Old 02-21-2014, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I'm not saying Audyssey is better for movies but at this time I only have Dirac for 2 channel. Hearing the differences between the two on 2 channel is not difficult. But what I don't know is if the differences between Dirac on an SSP (e.g. emotiva) and Audyssey on my 80.2 with a 7.2 system will be audible!
Got you. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you meant.

It ain't easy being green.

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post #62 of 79 Old 05-21-2014, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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My dealer has loaned my his Datasat SSP to learn it so that I can assist his folks in room setup in their soon to be completed new space and in their customer's home. (His folks have heard my room/system and have told the owner how it sounds and I sent him some data to show what tweaking can do to improve the room)

This is one complicated system. I suspect it will be quite some time before I ever get to the listening stage. For those who are familiar with the concept of "expectation bias" I have it. In this case, however, my expectation is that while (on paper) this $22.500 package should (a lot) sound better than my $2500 Integra 80.2, I will be quite surprised if it is really obvious when actually listening to a 5.1 movie. I have really fine tuned my room with treatment and Mark Seaton tricks, and it sounds really really excellent.

My hope is that it does NOT sound a lot better than the Integra as I would then be in a quandary.

We shall see!!

R 8:28


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post #63 of 79 Old 07-07-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: I will be going to California the first part of next month to get a day of training on the Datasat.

While visiting with one of our new neighbors some time ago, she mentioned she was a big fan of the Transformers movies (they are in their late 60's at least).

This weekend we had them over to watch Number 3 and they were absolutely blown away. They had seen it originally in a commercial theater but had never experienced anything like what they heard in our theater (Volume maybe at reference mine 8). At the end of the movie, they were like a couple of teenagers who just got their drivers license. In fact, they like all of the same action movies I do (FWIW, my wife had never seen any of the Transformer movies as I knew she would no like them - she didn't). They will be my go-to invitees to watch all future action flicks !!

As she left the theaters she said: "I don't know what you paid for all of this but it is worth every penny of it".

And I would add: "Amen"

R 8:28


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post #64 of 79 Old 07-08-2014, 03:10 PM
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Very nice theater room! Excellent job on the build!

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher


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post #65 of 79 Old 07-25-2014, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
+1!! Love your room - great job!!
Thank you so much. I had not looked at your room in a while. Your screen is much too small and you don't have enough woofage!!

That is one large screen. Massively large.

Eight 18" drivers is a serious amount of air movement. I'm in a converted loft and with my 4 SubMersives (8 15 inch drivers), the ENTIRE room moves in heavy bass scenes. If I put 18's in here, I would end up on the first floor.

Thanks again for the complement.

It's a fun addiction/hobby (usually!)

R 8:28


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post #66 of 79 Old 07-25-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thank you so much. I had not looked at your room in a while. Your screen is much too small and you don't have enough woofage!!

That is one large screen. Massively large.

Eight 18" drivers is a serious amount of air movement. I'm in a converted loft and with my 4 SubMersives (8 15 inch drivers), the ENTIRE room moves in heavy bass scenes. If I put 18's in here, I would end up on the first floor.

Thanks again for the complement.

It's a fun addiction/hobby (usually!)


Hey, 4 Submersives is crazy (in a good way) too - I used to have 2 of them so I know how awesome those subs are!!


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post #67 of 79 Old 07-30-2014, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Gain Matching vs Level Matching

When I first installed my 4 SubMersives, I used Gain Matching (see description by CraigJohn in the SubMersive thread) and never paid much attention to what might happen if I level matched. When I built my new theater, I also set up the subs with gain matching.

A few weeks ago, I decided to try level matching and see what happened. This was prompted by reading about a few different multi-sub set up procedures and my own curiosity. The audible results were significantly different (can't tell you why since the FR looked virtually identical after Audyssey did it's thing). And for a while, I REALLY liked it for moves but not as much for music. The bass in movies was just stupid (good?). Over time, I began to hear things in some parts of the bass spectrum (in movies and music) that did not sound correct and the bass in music sounded "thick" in some instances.

So I decided to compare the uncorrected FR of the two methods. Since my front subs and rear subs are different distances from the MLP, I grouped them that way and assigned
the fronts to Sub Out 1 and the rears to Sub Out2. Of course Audyssey set up different distances (and trims) for each group of subs. The actual level of the gain matching FR was a bit lower than the level matching, I adjusted them to be the same when I plotted and compared them. Here is the plot:



As you can see, Gain matched provided better uncorrected results.

The next plot is after setting the sub distances the same and comparing that to the Audyssey assigned distance for each sub group. You can see the huge dip near 100hz.



Finally, I started physically moving the rear subs, used gain matching and ran all four subs from Sub Out 1. What I ended up with is FR almost as good from 20hx up (the dip around 100 means nothing since (1) Audyssey fixes it and (2) I crossover below it. What I gained is very nice relative increase in output below 20hz.



FR after Audyssey does its magic (no smoothing - true for all plots):



As Craig noted in a previous post, if you use both sub outs, Audyssey uses level matching so you would need to split the differences in the two trim levels that Audyssey selects. I don't have that issue in this approach.

Sonically, I love how it sounds for movies and have not listened to music but will do so later today. It sounds better from an accuracy perspective than any time I have owned them but not as much fun as when I had level matched them - but I have yet to hear the thickness I heard when they were set up that way.



R 8:28


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Last edited by audioguy; 07-30-2014 at 02:21 PM.
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post #68 of 79 Old 07-30-2014, 03:28 PM
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This is why I love tweaking and endlessly messing with stuff. Well, first and foremost because I have fun doing it, and second every once in awhile you have a "breakthrough" tweak that changes things for the better and you leave that alone.

I agree with the gain matching and the reason behind it, but if level matching gives you that response and that much boost below 20hz it's a no brainer!!

However, to be sure I would run some compression sweeps (I hate doing it myself ) to make sure that your new setup isn't taxing 1 sub (or 2 or whatever) a lot more now giving you less headroom in reality than you had before.

No smoothing too!!! Wow, just wow with that last graph!! Well done.


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post #69 of 79 Old 07-30-2014, 03:29 PM
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Oh wait, I think I missed it... is your last graph back to gain matched? If so, win-win!


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post #70 of 79 Old 07-31-2014, 04:18 AM
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Nice looking graphs Audioguy. My subs are still gain matched but I did have to use Craig's distance tweak since I am using both sub outs on the Denon 4311ci. I recently bought my wife a laptop so I'm planning on getting a USB microphone and load REW onto her laptop. Which mic do you use?

Or I could just pay you to come over the house and measure my system.

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post #71 of 79 Old 07-31-2014, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post
Nice looking graphs Audioguy. My subs are still gain matched but I did have to use Craig's distance tweak since I am using both sub outs on the Denon 4311ci. I recently bought my wife a laptop so I'm planning on getting a USB microphone and load REW onto her laptop. Which mic do you use?

Or I could just pay you to come over the house and measure my system.
I have the UMK mic for REW but have not used it as I don't use REW. I may need to learn to use it since I am playing with the Datasat SSP and it does not calculate distances and will need some way to electronically determine distances. There is a way to do that with OmniMic which is what I use.

I would consider doing the measurements for you once my laptop is repaired and the charge will be zero. Give me some dates (PM) and I will take a look.

R 8:28


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post #72 of 79 Old 07-31-2014, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ran Dirac last night and really love the results for music. I can't explain why but the bass just sounds so much more natural and less thumpy than when listening through the Integra with Audyssey. As a reminder, I run the output of the server through the Integra and use it for bass management but turn Audyssey off.

R 8:28


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post #73 of 79 Old 07-31-2014, 06:15 AM
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Love the look of your room. Simple and elegant, with a nice color scheme. I bet it sounds equally impressive. Congratulations.


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post #74 of 79 Old 07-31-2014, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post
Love the look of your room. Simple and elegant, with a nice color scheme. I bet it sounds equally impressive. Congratulations.
Thanks for your kind words. This hobby (or more appropriately ADDICTION) can be lots of fun but on occasion, frustrating (like when a PC crashes). Our theater gives us lots of pleasure for movies and me lots of pleasure for music.

I spend a lot of time "tweaking" to extract the best possible sound from the system/room and over time it gets a little bit better. This is actually my 5th theater (2 in one home, 2 in the next home and now this one) and each is more fun than the last.

I actually had a "media room" even before then in the mid 1980's with a front projection TV (Mitsubishi 50 inch), 2 front speakers, 2 rear speakers, a Laser Disk Player and VCR with some surround synthesis box that I don't recall the name of.

Thanks again.

R 8:28


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post #75 of 79 Old 08-04-2014, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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After setting my subs up as a single unit, i reran Audyssey. As many know, in a multi-sub environment, Audyssey does not do very well in assigning the sub distance. Below is a chart comparing the Audyssey selected distance versus the modified one for the left front speaker:

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The following is for the center speaker. Not the same level of improvement but a bit better nonetheless:

[/URL]

R 8:28


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post #76 of 79 Old 08-31-2014, 12:35 AM
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Nice room and gear.

I am sure it sounds excellent.
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post #77 of 79 Old 08-31-2014, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice room and gear.

I am sure it sounds excellent.
Thank you so much. Being now retired, I am able to allow my OCDness to manifest itself by spending lots of time tweaking and calibrating my existing room/system to extract all that is possible.

We do enjoy it a lot and now that college football is back, I move into the theater on Saturday mornings for Game Day and leave about midnight.

Go Noles!!

R 8:28


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post #78 of 79 Old 08-31-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Nice room and gear.

I am sure it sounds excellent.
Thank you so much. Being now retired, I am able to allow my OCDness to manifest itself by spending lots of time tweaking and calibrating my existing room/system to extract all that is possible.

We do enjoy it a lot and now that college football is back, I move into the theater on Saturday mornings for Game Day and leave about midnight.

Go Noles!!
I have been reading a lot about the seatons now and i am sure my next upgrade will be that! currently running an Atlantic Technology 11.3 setup.

Which is:
8200e fronts
8200e SR surrounds
4400's for wide,height and s.backs
642e subs x3

Marantz AV-8801 using XT32
Emotiva XPA-3 x1
Emotiva XPA-5 x2

Wireworld cables for everything:
XLR,HDMI,Sub cables and power chords

Panasonic PT-AE8000 3D
113" 1.4 SI Black Diamond Screen
Chord Carnival Silverscreen Speaker cables.


Will do the Audyssey pro calibraton soon as i already have the kit.


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post #79 of 79 Old 08-31-2014, 05:39 AM
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Good morning Chuck, I hope you are having a fabulous Labor Day weekend.

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