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post #91 of 165 Unread 11-13-2014, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I will be anxious to hear your impressions on the 7702. It is on my short list, along with the Marantz 8801(assuming a good deal can be had once the 8802's come out) to integrate in my system. Atmos isn't a priority for me, just something that has XLR's to compliment my new CAT-12's.

Mark has also mentioned his surrounds to me and I have interest, but the price is a bit higher than I would like...so who knows.
The question for you then is the demonstrably improved ability of Audyssey on the 5200/7702 also in the 8801 and I will have no way to test that.

Also, the Dolby Upmixer in the newer products to my ears and those of a friend is superior to Dolby PL xII and you don't get that in the 8801.

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post #92 of 165 Unread 11-14-2014, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The question for you then is the demonstrably improved ability of Audyssey on the 5200/7702 also in the 8801 and I will have no way to test that.

Also, the Dolby Upmixer in the newer products to my ears and those of a friend is superior to Dolby PL xII and you don't get that in the 8801.
Those are some points and I appreciate the information.
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post #93 of 165 Unread 12-27-2014, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I have updated my list of equipment on the first page to include the speakers, amps and SSP changes installed to support Atmos (and Auro).

I am somewhat less than thrilled with the Marantz 7702. I have spent HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS trying to eliminate a low level hum. This is the first time in my audio experience that I have not been able to ultimately solve the problem. I have replaced the unit. Tried cheater plugs, different combinations of outlets, disconnected everything imaginable, etc. The 7702 does not use a grounded plug so I stuck a piece of wire into the empty spot on a 3 pronged cord and attached the other end to a screw on the 7702. Nominal improvement. More of my efforts can be seen in the 7702 thread. No one else seems to be having this issue.

Furthermore, with my Integra 80.2, there were a number of optional listening modes that would enhance 2 channel music. The only one that seems to be available is the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) and is has the rear surrounds WAAAAAAAAY to hot.

Not a happy camper. Note to self: Probably should have waited for the next evolution of Atmos/Auro SSP's.

I am also having some noise on my ceiling speakers from my Emotiva amp. It, too, only uses a cord that does not have a ground pin. This noise is not from the 7702 as it continues even if I disconnect the 7702 from the amp.

I will have to get an electrician here to assist as I am at a loss.

I will also be lowering my surrounds as they are almost 6 feet high or approximatley 2.5 feet above my ears. Worked great in a 7.1 system but may be diminishing the overall effect of a 7.1.4 system. Will be lowering them to about 50 inches.

That said Atmos (or just DSU) is clearly an upgrade to immersion quality of every movie we have watched.

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post #94 of 165 Unread 12-27-2014, 06:47 PM
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I always forget how epic your theater is for some reason. Really, really nice setup!!

Sorry to hear about your issues with the 7702. I've fully resigned myself to selecting a SSP in September of next year (CEDIA), after the new crop of hardware is revealed. Everything should be HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 by then so no worries for full resolution 4K.

I always had a question for you but never asked.....do you notice any time alignment / phasing issues with the L&R pulled out so far in front of the screen and the center hidden behind the screen @ 6-8 feet back from the L&R??
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post #95 of 165 Unread 12-29-2014, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I always forget how epic your theater is for some reason. Really, really nice setup!!
Thank you very much. Acoustically, it is very very good. However, I wrestled for a long time on the aesthetics of my theater. I knew that in the form vs function equation, function was far more important. But since I completed my theater, I have seen quite a few examples of other completed theaters that could have provided both. I even considered some kind of "retrofit". I did make a few color changes to the acoustic panels, I may end adding some rope lights but other than that, I will continue to focus on tweaking the audio I have. Even looking at some big changes in that area. My issue at the moment is a hum/buzz that I have been unable to isolate since I purchased the 7702. I even swapped it for another but since it was shipped at the same time, if there were a hardware issue, this one would have it as well.

I was hoping to see more "almost complete" photos of yours. I will subscribe.

Quote:
Sorry to hear about your issues with the 7702. I've fully resigned myself to selecting a SSP in September of next year (CEDIA), after the new crop of hardware is revealed. Everything should be HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 by then so no worries for full resolution 4K.
I wish I had waited. Not for the whole HDMI thing (or the buzz) because there are workarounds. But with Auro and Atmos having incompatible speaker layouts, there is currently no good ways with the current crop of SSP's to take full advantage of both - without having to re-load various configurations. It is FUN, however and when you finally do decide to pull the trigger, you will enjoy it a lot.

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I always had a question for you but never asked.....do you notice any time alignment / phasing issues with the L&R pulled out so far in front of the screen and the center hidden behind the screen @ 6-8 feet back from the L&R??
ZERO issues. The room correction software addresses all of that plus, in my OCD case, I use impulse measurements from all of the front speakers (and surrounds) to really tighten up the time alignment.

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post #96 of 165 Unread 12-29-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I was hoping to see more "almost complete" photos of yours. I will subscribe.
This is my hope as well but sadly it is not....yet. However, full renderings of the room are nearing completion and will be posted within the next month or so. The finish materials are so expensive that I felt I needed the renderings to help avoid any expensive 'oops' with the design aesthetic. It will also help me with materials estimation.

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I wish I had waited. Not for the whole HDMI thing (or the buzz) because there are workarounds. But with Auro and Atmos having incompatible speaker layouts, there is currently no good ways with the current crop of SSP's to take full advantage of both - without having to re-load various configurations. It is FUN, however and when you finally do decide to pull the trigger, you will enjoy it a lot.
The final piece of the speaker layout puzzle should be revealed next week at CES when DTS (hopefully) announces the home specifications for their MDA/UHD 3D audio codec. To your point I *hope* there is some kind of forthcoming standardization in the speaker layout that will work for all three codecs. Maybe I am recalling incorrectly, is it not the case for the high channel count processors that they will accommodate whatever speaker layout you have and make all the time, filter, delay, EQ and phase adjustments accordingly?

I've been vacillating between two audio layers vs. three and figured I would just wire for three and rest easy with my prewire. So two full 11 channel beds and then 8 ceiling speakers plus all the LFE. I'll land around 22.4.8 for my final config. with 11.4.4 being the minimum first iteration.
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post #97 of 165 Unread 12-29-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I will also be lowering my surrounds as they are almost 6 feet high or approximatley 2.5 feet above my ears. Worked great in a 7.1 system but may be diminishing the overall effect of a 7.1.4 system. Will be lowering them to about 50 inches.
Very nice looking theater, and great choice of hardware.

Good idea lowering the surrounds. I was running high surrounds too, but lowered them for the best overall sound with overheads.

For the same reasons you toed in the main speakers, it's worth doing the same with the surrounds and overheads.

 


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post #98 of 165 Unread 12-29-2014, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Very nice looking theater, and great choice of hardware.

Good idea lowering the surrounds. I was running high surrounds too, but lowered them for the best overall sound with overheads.

For the same reasons you toed in the main speakers, it's worth doing the same with the surrounds and overheads.
Thanks for the complement.

The left and right surround are aimed right at my ear, The rear surrounds are aimed straight ahead. The front two height speakers now aim to the floor just in front of me and the rear Overheads aim at the floor just behind me.

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post #99 of 165 Unread 01-13-2015, 09:10 AM
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AudioGuy, I have just installed the AV7702 and do NOT have any humming issues. Just a heads up.

What Atmos speakers did you go with???
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post #100 of 165 Unread 01-13-2015, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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AudioGuy, I have just installed the AV7702 and do NOT have any humming issues. Just a heads up.
It's all a function of speaker sensitivity. Others who have highly sensitive speakers/amp combination have low level of hum/buzz as well. Contrary to what I was told by someone on AVS that is what the electrical system in my home (it was NOT), the 7702 is NOT dead quiet. If it is for you, that is great. Now that I have padded down all of my speakers, I no longer have hum/buzz either.

Quote:
What Atmos speakers did you go with???
Tannoy's

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post #101 of 165 Unread 01-13-2015, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It's all a function of speaker sensitivity. Others who have highly sensitive speakers/amp combination have low level of hum/buzz as well. Contrary to what I was told by someone on AVS that is what the electrical system in my home (it was NOT), the 7702 is NOT dead quiet. If it is for you, that is great. Now that I have padded down all of my speakers, I no longer have hum/buzz either.

Tannoy's
I understand, I am running Parasound amps with Paradigm speakers. Maybe I got lucky with the processor...so far I have been quite pleased.
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post #102 of 165 Unread 01-13-2015, 11:42 AM
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Good afternoon Chuck, I sent phansson (Patrick) your way since he was getting into the same processor and Atmos setup. Hope that was OK. I guess now I need to wait just a little longer before making the trip to your new home in order for you to get everything working with Atmos.

BTW I wanted to come over during the holidays but we instead remodeled the first floor in our home with carpet, Luxury Vinyl flooring and granite countertops. Again if you are in the area where I live don't hesitate to call.

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post #103 of 165 Unread 01-20-2015, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I am selling my 3 Seaton Catalysts 12C’s and their stands as a package. And am also selling my Seaton Sparks.

Why am I selling: As my wife will tell you, it has been an excruciating decision. But I was presented an opportunity to purchase some speakers by Triad (Platinum LCR's for the front and In Room Silver Monitors for the 4 surrounds) for a once-in-a-lifetime price so the OCD audiophile in me wanted to give it a go.

I can say without hesitation that the Catalysts are by far the best home theater system I have ever owned and at the price new, are just an incredible deal. My new speakers cost double and require the purchase of amps in addition.

If interested see FS: Seaton Catalysts and Sparks

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post #104 of 165 Unread 02-10-2015, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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These showed up today: (3 Platinum LCR's and 4 In-Room Silver Monitors)



And thinking about 4 of these:



If I were in a basement instead of the second floor, I would get even more. As it is with my 4 SubMersives, the entire room moves when serious bass shows up at ref minus 5 [ or sometimes a tad higher ]
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post #105 of 165 Unread 02-18-2015, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I have updated my first post with the equipment list but will need to update photos once my new speaker wire is in place hopefully later this week.

I did some preliminary listening with 2 channel only. My observations:

I ran a quick (non-Pro) Audyssey run and had to adjust the bass (Audyssey messed up the trim for some reason). Maybe I did 3 or 4 hours of listening:

- I did not make a mistake buying these speakers
- They do need break in
- They seem to be as dynamic as my previous speakers (big relief)
- They do not sound like my previous speakers
- They are smoother in the mid/tweet crossover area
- They are NOT a forgiving speaker
- The OmniMic measured response after Audyssey is much too flat for my tastes for music. Tomorrow I will run Dirac. And when the other amp comes back, I will try Audyssey Pro with a slightly different target
- The (after and before Audyssey) frequency response seems a lot more balanced than my previous speaker. I hear more of everything (if that makes any sense)
- They will play very loud cleanly
- I'm sure after more fiddling and time, they will improve - but out of the box they are a really, really great speaker.
- They integrate well with my 4 subs
- Can't wait to hear all 7 Triads playing together - both music and movies.
- Like my previous speaker, they are a "fun" speaker (I gave up “accurate” a long time ago)
- Now the serious tweaking begins - but I'm already 80% to 90% there!!

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post #106 of 165 Unread 02-18-2015, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I have updated my first post with the equipment list but will need to update photos once my new speaker wire is in place hopefully later this week.

I did some preliminary listening with 2 channel only. My observations:

I ran a quick (non-Pro) Audyssey run and had to adjust the bass (Audyssey messed up the trim for some reason). Maybe I did 3 or 4 hours of listening:

- I did not make a mistake buying these speakers
- They do need break in
- They seem to be as dynamic as my previous speakers (big relief)
- They do not sound like my previous speakers
- They are smoother in the mid/tweet crossover area
- They are NOT a forgiving speaker
- The OmniMic measured response after Audyssey is much too flat for my tastes for music. Tomorrow I will run Dirac. And when the other amp comes back, I will try Audyssey Pro with a slightly different target
- The (after and before Audyssey) frequency response seems a lot more balanced than my previous speaker. I hear more of everything (if that makes any sense)
- They will play very loud cleanly
- I'm sure after more fiddling and time, they will improve - but out of the box they are a really, really great speaker.
- They integrate well with my 4 subs
- Can't wait to hear all 7 Triads playing together - both music and movies.
- Like my previous speaker, they are a "fun" speaker (I gave up “accurate” a long time ago)
- Now the serious tweaking begins - but I'm already 80% to 90% there!!
Congratulations !!!

Cheers!
-- Bill --
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post #107 of 165 Unread 02-21-2015, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Attention all true audio/video addicts.

Be careful about saying (at least in writing or within earshot of anyone else) ANYTHING about "no more upgrades". As I re-read these proclamations I made in a post about a year ago, my only response could be "oops"!!

Since my dogmatic comments about loving what I have, no interest in making any changes, and being retired so I can't afford to keep playing this game, I have made the following changes:

- Rebuilt all of the columns in the room so that I could lower my 4 surrounds:

- Purchased a new surround processor to enable Atmos

- Purchased a new Emotiva XPA-5 amp to drive 4 new ceiling speakers

- Purchased and installed 4 new Atmos ceiling speakers

- Purchased 7 new Triad speakers to replace the 7 Seaton speakers I had when I made these quotes

- Purchased an amp (d-sonic) to drive these 7 new speakers

If that's what "no more changes/upgrades" looks like, can you only imagine what it would look like if I really got purposeful on upgrades. Sick! Sick! Sick!


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I have no doubt that the addition of either heights and/or wides might improve the overall experience, but I have to stop somewhere.

I have ZERO complaints nor any desire to add more stuff .... other than an improved SSP. My HT audio and video is as good as I have ever heard/seen at any price anywhere and, my 2 channel music listening is way more than adequate!!

And, should I desire to add either heights or wides, I will move the rear surrounds to operate in that capacity.

Lastly, I am going to be fully retired soon and the ability to spend 47 bazillion dollars quarterly (or whatever it costs to maintain this addiction), will no longer be an option
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post #108 of 165 Unread 02-21-2015, 07:47 AM
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Don't forget about your upgrade to a 4K Oppo Bluray this winter.....oh, and a 4K projector at some point
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post #109 of 165 Unread 02-21-2015, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't forget about your upgrade to a 4K Oppo Bluray this winter.....oh, and a 4K projector at some point
Already have the 4K projector (Sony 600ES). And I don't need your (or anyone else's) help at spending my money. Apparently I have it down to a fine art.

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post #110 of 165 Unread 02-21-2015, 03:28 PM
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Already have the 4K projector (Sony 600ES). And I don't need your (or anyone else's) help at spending my money. Apparently I have it down to a fine art.
Glad to have not helped!

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #111 of 165 Unread 02-21-2015, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad to have not helped!

Craig

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post #112 of 165 Unread 02-26-2015, 08:21 PM
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We moved from another home and brought with us our theater equipment less the screen, masking system and room treatment.

The current room dimensions are 22 x 19.3 x 7'11". The room was originally a loft but we basically built an entire new room: double dry wall; Green Glue, carpet underlay to reduce sound from creeping into other parts of the house, new doors and door seals and thresholds, sealed all electrical outlets. The room was originally 27 feet long but took off 5 feet to get better acoustic dimensions and to have a place for my equipment and media storage. Also, we needed space for the center channel which is behind the AT screen

It's about 95% complete but we have watched our first movie. Listening to music using DiracLive on my server is excellent. Movies with Audyssey needs more work -- but we are close

VIDEO EQUIPMENT: Sony 600ES w/ Powered Panamorph Anamorphic Lens and sled and Sony 4K Media Player; Screen Masking System by Carada; Seymour Acoustically Transparent 2:35 120 x 51 inch screen (1.1 Gain - XD Material);

SPEAKERS: LCR: Triad Platinum LCR's; SUBS: Seaton SubMersive HP (4); Surrounds: Tirad Silver InRoom Monitors; (4) Tannoy Di6 DC heights (Atmos/Auro)

ELECTRONICS: Marantz 7702 (with Audyssey Pro); APS 2000 Power Conditioner; Emotiva XDA-2 -- USB D to A Converter (not in use); Emotive XPA-5 driving the 4 ceiling speakers; d-sonic 7 channel amp (800 x 3 and 400 x 4); Emotive XPA-5 driving height speakers

SOURCES: Music Vault Diamond Music Server (J River and J Remote for controlling my music server); Dirac Live room correction software running on MusicVault; Oppo BD103D Bluray Player which includes DARBEE DARBLET High-Defintion Image Enhancer; DirecTV DVR; Apple TV

ROOM STUFF: Theater chairs by Berkline; Room design and all acoustic treatment by GIK

MISCELLANEOUS: BlueJeans Cables (XLR and Single Ended)

Old Photos will be replaced once I clean up the room!!




Very nice 10/10
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post #113 of 165 Unread 03-03-2015, 01:27 PM
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Simple, neat and tidy setup. Great theater you have. Congratulations.
Show us more photos upon any change or addition equipment in due course.
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post #114 of 165 Unread 03-03-2015, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Simple, neat and tidy setup. Great theater you have. Congratulations.
Show us more photos upon any change or addition equipment in due course.
Thank you so much. I hope to post new photos by next week.

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post #115 of 165 Unread 03-03-2015, 06:39 PM
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Audioguy, I have posted a few photos of my theater a few hours earlier (title - Kwok's theater setup). Have you checked it out yet? Happy sharing and viewing of what we have achieved. Awaiting your new photo posting. Cheers.
Kwok Lau
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post #116 of 165 Unread 03-07-2015, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thank you so much. I hope to post new photos by next week.
Looking forward to seeing the updated photos. Great room you've made there! Green with envy.
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post #117 of 165 Unread 03-07-2015, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I have updated the photos on my first post. I used a fairly wide angle lens so the room size appears odd. But it is 22 feet long, 19+ feet wide and 7'11" high (was 8 feet but double drywall on the ceiling and an underlayment under the carpet pad).

I am truly blessed to be able to go that room and either listen to music or watch a movie, or during college football, season, watch lots of games.

I have said this more than once, but I quit chasing "accurate" a long time ago. Not a realistic goal (but an incredibly expensive one). I have heard multi-hundred thousand dollar 2 channel systems, that while truly spectacular, and at moments, could lead one to visualize, for example a small jazz club, but falls incredibly short of the real deal.

I sang in a 150 person choir for over 25 years along with a 30 piece orchestra. I had season tickets to the Atlanta symphony for about 25 years. I know what live music sounds like and it ain't happening with a home sound reproduction system. The proverbial nail in the coffin came when 3 years ago, my wife hired (as a surprise to me) a 3 piece jazz combo for my birthday that played in our home. I then officially got off the "accurate" train and immediately jumped onto the "fun" or "entertaining" train.

And that is exactly what I have with Atmos, my amazing Seaton subs and now my new Triad speakers.

About a week or so ago, I had my "audiophile" card taken from me. I got hooked on a bunch of DVD-A multi-channel surround music that was loaned to me. Of course there should not be "voices" coming from the surrounds. But according to who? For "accurate", probably not. But for "fun" or entertaining", absolutely. And play those DVD-A discs through DSU and wowzer - even more fun.

The only thing I might try would be to move the left and right speaker more toward the screen wall by a couple of feet. When we have guests to watch a movie, I take the outside seat and I am really close to the left speaker. The reason I probably will not do so is that the distance between the surrounds and the mains would then get larger and the needs for wides would increase -- which means two more columns, and two more speakers and changing the 1st reflection point acoustics.
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Last edited by audioguy; 03-07-2015 at 03:32 PM.
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post #118 of 165 Unread 03-07-2015, 02:40 PM
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Those speakers look amazing in your room.

Love the clean look of your surrounds too.

Very nice..
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post #119 of 165 Unread 03-07-2015, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
About a week or so ago, I had my "audiophile" card taken from me. I got hooked on a bunch of DVD-A multi-channel surround music that was loaned to me. Of course there should not be "voices" coming from the surrounds. But according to who? For "accurate", probably not. But for "fun" or entertaining", absolutely. And play those DVD-A discs through DSU and wowzer - even more fun.
Those discs with vocals in the surrounds are mixed with the "in the band" perspective. IOW, the intent is to provide the perspective of being on stage with the band. It's kind of the way the musicians experience the soundstage. It's clearly not "accurate" from the audience perspective, but it sure is FUN!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The only thing I might try would be to move the left and right speaker more toward the screen wall by a couple of feet. When we have guests to watch a movie, I take the outside seat and I am really close to the left speaker. The reason I probably will not do so is that the distance between the surrounds and the mains would then get larger and the needs for wides would increase -- which means two more columns, and two more speakers and changing the 1st reflection point acoustics.
I love my Wides... just sayin'...

(That last comment was intended to encourage you spend more money!!!)

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #120 of 165 Unread 03-07-2015, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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(That last comment was intended to encourage you spend more money!!!)

Craig
I think that's your second profession!

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