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Old 12-11-2015, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
I can imagine having to maybe upgrade from the 600 can be a daunting task. Never the less, I am sure as it is you system kicks major butt.
Upgrading from the 600ES will probably never happen. I am retired (2 years ago)but set aside away some money when I sold my company to be able to do the "final" serious upgrades to my theater. That, so far, has included the 7 Triad speakers (Craig's fault), new amps (also Craig's fault since my previous speakers were powered), new Sony PJ and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff. If I should go the Datasat route, which is what I am actively considering, the serious money is gone. I posted once previously that I was "done" except for the new SSP and that is still my story - and for now I am sticking to it!!!

Some of the ways to control this addiction is to never read AVS, or attend a show like CEDIA or enter a high end Home Theater store. I posted once previously that that last time I attended CEDIA, it cost me $15,600. $600 to attend the show and another $15,000 for what I purchased as a result of the show. The PJ I purchased due to a visit to Atlanta Home Theater and saw the Sony 1100ES. The Triad speakers because Craig mentioned them to me and then I visited him early this year. So to save money, never leave the house.

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Old 12-11-2015, 09:17 AM
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Is the 600 really 4K? It looks like that it is. If so then I say yes, you should stay with that since there is really no where else to go. Now the Datasat would also be nice. Are you sticking with one format(Atmos) or are you trying to incorporate DTS:X and Auro as well. You have enough speakers for a really nice immersive system.

I am curious about the Datasat. It looks like a real pro preamp. You need to get adapters to attach amps right? It looks like it uses those DB25 connections. And on it's own, does it do all three formats or does it just do Auro and Atmos, DTS:X will be upgrades. Either way it will be a great system.

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Old 12-11-2015, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Is the 600 really 4K? It looks like that it is. If so then I say yes, you should stay with that since there is really no where else to go. Now the Datasat would also be nice. Are you sticking with one format(Atmos) or are you trying to incorporate DTS:X and Auro as well. You have enough speakers for a really nice immersive system.

I am curious about the Datasat. It looks like a real pro preamp. You need to get adapters to attach amps right? It looks like it uses those DB25 connections. And on it's own, does it do all three formats or does it just do Auro and Atmos, DTS:X will be upgrades. Either way it will be a great system.
The 600 is true 4K but does not conform to the new UHD standard (improved color depth, etc). So I don't know what that means if the new 4K video releases conform to that standard and my PJ does not support it???

The Datasat has options. But it can include Atmos, Auro, and the ability to add DTS-X if it ever gets released. The adapters come with it so it really has 16 XLR (balanced) connectors on it.

I currently have an Atmos ceiling speaker configuration. My room really is not so long that it needs more ceiling speaker; if I ever chose to add a 2nd row of seating (that is about as likely as me selling my speakers and installing a set of Bose 901's all around), but if I did so, I could add another set of side surrounds. The only speaker upgrade I could imagine would be to change out my ceiling speakers to some in-ceiling Triad speakers that truly conformed to the Atmos standards OR, add Wides. Neither of those is very likely either. But then again, neither were some of the other upgrades.

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Old 12-11-2015, 11:01 AM
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The 600 is true 4K but does not conform to the new UHD standard (improved color depth, etc). So I don't know what that means if the new 4K video releases conform to that standard and my PJ does not support it???

The Datasat has options. But it can include Atmos, Auro, and the ability to add DTS-X if it ever gets released. The adapters come with it so it really has 16 XLR (balanced) connectors on it.

I currently have an Atmos ceiling speaker configuration. My room really is not so long that it needs more ceiling speaker; if I ever chose to add a 2nd row of seating (that is about as likely as me selling my speakers and installing a set of Bose 901's all around), but if I did so, I could add another set of side surrounds. The only speaker upgrade I could imagine would be to change out my ceiling speakers to some in-ceiling Triad speakers that truly conformed to the Atmos standards OR, add Wides. Neither of those is very likely either. But then again, neither were some of the other upgrades.
So things like Wide Color Gamut, etc... may be beyond your reach. Your projector can probably do 4k but it may not be able to EVERY little thing 4k has to offer. I am sure your picture looks insane as it is. That's cool that the Datasat can possibly do all three formats. I got you on your other upgrades as well. Since my room is so small, I really can't add any more speakers. Craig and I have discussed it and he feels that it would be a lot of work and the pay off may not be worth it. So I am probably done speaker wise. My next move would be to wait for 4k BR players and media to come out and maybe just upgrade that. Good luck on getting the Datasat.

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Old 12-12-2015, 08:50 AM
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Chuck,

It looks to me like Audyssey is seeing the downturn in the response that starts about 140 Hz and is inappropriately using that as the F3. Can you take measurements at all 8 of your mic positions and see if that dip is consistent at all 8 positions? Did you use the same 8 mic positions for Dirac?

Since you got a near-perfect result with a single mic position, can I suggest you try a closer mic grouping around the PLP? I use a mic grouping that is clustered no further than 12" around the PLP, with several positions within 4" to 6" of the 1st position. I find it gives Audyssey more consistent responses, which allows Audyssey to focus on the main problems at the PLP. It's probably not as good at other listening positions, but I don't really care too much about those... I don't sit there! (Unless, of course, I have some distinguished visitor, and then I give up the PLP to him.)

One last question... how does the 120 Hz crossover sound? I don't remember any subwoofer localization issues when I visited, likely due to your distributed subwoofer system. That should be the only SQ issue with a higher crossover. (BTW, I use a 120 Hz crossover on all my speakers, not because of any speaker/subwoofer integration issues, but because I get more system headroom by passing off the heavy lifting to the subs.)

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Old 12-12-2015, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Chuck,

It looks to me like Audyssey is seeing the downturn in the response that starts about 140 Hz and is inappropriately using that as the F3. Can you take measurements at all 8 of your mic positions and see if that dip is consistent at all 8 positions? Did you use the same 8 mic positions for Dirac?

Since you got a near-perfect result with a single mic position, can I suggest you try a closer mic grouping around the PLP? I use a mic grouping that is clustered no further than 12" around the PLP, with several positions within 4" to 6" of the 1st position. I find it gives Audyssey more consistent responses, which allows Audyssey to focus on the main problems at the PLP. It's probably not as good at other listening positions, but I don't really care too much about those... I don't sit there! (Unless, of course, I have some distinguished visitor, and then I give up the PLP to him.)

One last question... how does the 120 Hz crossover sound? I don't remember any subwoofer localization issues when I visited, likely due to your distributed subwoofer system. That should be the only SQ issue with a higher crossover. (BTW, I use a 120 Hz crossover on all my speakers, not because of any speaker/subwoofer integration issues, but because I get more system headroom by passing off the heavy lifting to the subs.)

Craig
Great minds think alike. Given the incredible results I got from not moving the mic at all, last night I did a new set of measurements while moving the mic no more than about 12 inches and got much better results (still not as good as Dirac). I can now choose to use a lower crossover and get a better blend between the subs and mains.

And yes, the measurement locations between Dirac and Audyssey were very close except Dirac requires 9 positions and I use 8 for Audyssey. When I had the Datasat in my home, it had no issues getting a reasonable looking corrected response for all of my speakers and I was not restricted to keeping the mic quite as close to the MLP. And just as importantly, Dirac did a much better job on the splice between subs and mains.

The issue I had with a 120HZ crossover is much more with music than movies. It was not a sub-localization issue. In fact with movies, it has a lot of upside. But there were occasions where some vocals (and instruments) had a much "chestier" feel than was appropriate. A couple of possible reasons for this: (1) my subs are not SubMersives and (2) the FR of the subs starts dying prior to 120HZ.

I am going go be diddling some later today on playing with the crossivers and sub distances to see if I can tighten things up a bit.

After I did all of this, I watched Age of Ultron and thought I completely hosed my system. Dynamics were crushed, volume need to be pumped up a bunch, etc. Turns out, after doing some googling on the subject, it was the recording of the audio on the Blu Ray!!

Thanks for your input. Any signficant audio/video purchases either in the past or your near term future?

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Old 12-12-2015, 03:53 PM
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Hi Chuck,

Interesting findings with the Audyssey LF speaker correction. Am I correct to assume this was done with the Audyssey Pro Kit? If so, did you make sure to set the crossover frequencies lower in the window that says "recommended crossover frequencies" or whatever the exact term is? For each speaker the drop down offers crossover frequency settings in a ranked priority. I wonder if this setting dictates the low end correction window? If you saved the measurements, you can back out and run it with a very high setting for the LCR vs a much lower setting. I would then go into the menu after loading the new correction and set the crossover for the LCR to ~40Hz or even large to see what Audyssey did to the low end separate from the high pass filter.

FYI, I'm now a dealer for the MiniDSP products with a fewDDRC-88a's and a small pile of the UMIK-1's on hand. In late January I'll be using a pair of '88a's to calibrate an Atmos system with just the 4 height speakers on the 2nd unit. The key and hurdle is they must be calibrated separately, so I'll end up having to best match the mic locations for the 2nd round of measurements for the height channels. Once done I'll then have to line up the impulses using the distance settings in the preamp (Marantz 8802a) to get the actual arrival times to match. I'll have a full report by Feb 1st.

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Old 12-13-2015, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Chuck,

Interesting findings with the Audyssey LF speaker correction. Am I correct to assume this was done with the Audyssey Pro Kit?
Correct

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If so, did you make sure to set the crossover frequencies lower in the window that says "recommended crossover frequencies" or whatever the exact term is? For each speaker the drop down offers crossover frequency settings in a ranked priority. I wonder if this setting dictates the low end correction window?
I did just that. I selected the lowest provided frequency hoping that this would address the problem. It did not!!

Quote:
If you saved the measurements, you can back out and run it with a very high setting for the LCR vs a much lower setting. I would then go into the menu after loading the new correction and set the crossover for the LCR to ~40Hz or even large to see what Audyssey did to the low end separate from the high pass filter.
It won't let you change (if I recall correctly) from small to large.

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FYI, I'm now a dealer for the MiniDSP products with a fewDDRC-88a's and a small pile of the UMIK-1's on hand. In late January I'll be using a pair of '88a's to calibrate an Atmos system with just the 4 height speakers on the 2nd unit. The key and hurdle is they must be calibrated separately, so I'll end up having to best match the mic locations for the 2nd round of measurements for the height channels. Once done I'll then have to line up the impulses using the distance settings in the preamp (Marantz 8802a) to get the actual arrival times to match. I'll have a full report by Feb 1st.
Aligning the distance settings is one issue and then figuring out how to control the two volume controls and keep them in sync is another. A guy on the AVS forum has a Datasat LS10 and he has already done what you are discussing doing. He may be able to provide some insight and assistance.

Reducing the distance between measurements solved my delima for now. My issue is that since I now have a fair amount of experience setting up the Datasat RS20i and understand how much flexibility it has, it is hard to not keep thinking about it as the real solution. For example, on the output preset side, you can use up to 6 PEQ's on any of the channels to make adjustments prior to Dirac doing it's thing. For example, in my uncorrected FR noted above on the left channel, you can see there are a couple narrow peaks of excess room energy on both sides of 100HZ. While Dirac certainly reduces them (probably to the extent of inaudibility), it does not eliminate them. Using two high Q PEQ's can tame them prior to correction and get a much smoother response. That may or may not be a great example as I don't know if or how much doing that would change the actual sonics but it might and by experimentation, I could learn if it actually did. And for a retired, addicted, OCD audiophile looking to extract the very best out of his system, audio Nirvana. Now only if I had not sold my 4 SubMersives

By the way, how do you plan to get an impulse signal to the ceiling speakers as neither REW nor OmniMic have the ability to test more than 6 or 8 channels. I know you don't use either of those but I'm curious as I like to check both Audyssey's and Diracs distance measurements and can't do the height speakers.

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Old 12-13-2015, 09:35 AM
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Audyssey has clearly given up on this segment of their market as they have made no actual product improvements in probably 5 or 6 years other than adding some other products that support Audyssey. I have no clue why but .................
Just FYI... Chis K stated in a Facebook post last May:

Quote:
I can say that we are working on something very cool for 2016 release. It will make hard core Audyssey fans happy. And, no, we are not leaving the room correction business.
Just sayin'...

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Old 12-13-2015, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote from Audyssey: I can say that we are working on something very cool for 2016 release. It will make hard core Audyssey fans happy. And, no, we are not leaving the room correction business.
Craig
I wonder if they have decided to get in the "high end" hardware business and compete against some of their existing re-sellers (e.g. Denon and Marantz) as well as the folks like Emotiva, Datasat, et al. In addition, they certainly need to do some work on the software.

Since 2016 is just around the corner my guess would be CES, but we shall see.

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:49 AM
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Correct
I did just that. I selected the lowest provided frequency hoping that this would address the problem. It did not!!
That's disappointing and what I'd call a border-line software glitch if I didn't think it was somewhat intentional. In that case I'll just call it a bad choice that it can't be over-ridden.

After recently calibrating a nice system great/game-room type system with 3 Catalyst 8Cs and SubMersive with Audyssey Pro, it only re-iterated why I'm such a fan of Dirac. I kept saying to myself "I would have been done 1-2 hours ago!" With that saved time from the speed by which I can adjust and listen to minor changes, the result can be much closer to my ideal as you are able to make many more fine adjustments and direct comparisons. Dirac isn't without a few quirks or need for a few more direct adjustments, but the added flexibility is a huge benefit.

Quote:
Aligning the distance settings is one issue and then figuring out how to control the two volume controls and keep them in sync is another. A guy on the AVS forum has a Datasat LS10 and he has already done what you are discussing doing. He may be able to provide some insight and assistance.
If you have an Atmos preamp there is no issue with volume control being the 88a will just function as a conventional EQ with the upstream surround preamp handling all source switching, decoding, bass management, and volume control. The only adjustments needed are effective delay and to verify the relative level of the 2 calibrations is lined up.

A local and long time friend is now a DataSat dealer and had a demo of the new LS10 with Dirac included. I see mention of it here in the LS10 thread here as well. While hardly in the "affordable" range, it's an important step in the non-astronomical direction, and I believe Arcam and AudioControl both have Dirac capable Atmos processors soon to be released.

Quote:
Reducing the distance between measurements solved my delima for now. My issue is that since I now have a fair amount of experience setting up the Datasat RS20i and understand how much flexibility it has, it is hard to not keep thinking about it as the real solution. For example, on the output preset side, you can use up to 6 PEQ's on any of the channels to make adjustments prior to Dirac doing it's thing. For example, in my uncorrected FR noted above on the left channel, you can see there are a couple narrow peaks of excess room energy on both sides of 100HZ. While Dirac certainly reduces them (probably to the extent of inaudibility), it does not eliminate them. Using two high Q PEQ's can tame them prior to correction and get a much smoother response. That may or may not be a great example as I don't know if or how much doing that would change the actual sonics but it might and by experimentation, I could learn if it actually did. And for a retired, addicted, OCD audiophile looking to extract the very best out of his system, audio Nirvana. Now only if I had not sold my 4 SubMersives
I haven't checked nor even asked, but were you able to confirm if the RS20's internal PEQ was in the loop when Dirac runs its measurements? It's certainly possible with their hardware, but pleasantly surprising if it was actually enabled that way.

Quote:
By the way, how do you plan to get an impulse signal to the ceiling speakers as neither REW nor OmniMic have the ability to test more than 6 or 8 channels. I know you don't use either of those but I'm curious as I like to check both Audyssey's and Diracs distance measurements and can't do the height speakers.
With the external boxes I can always just pipe an analog signal right into the 88a's input channel, measure the offset between the two and enter that value into the preamp. Of course I guess if you had an Audyssey preamp you could just run a single postion Audyssey cal to get the distances and levels initially set and then turn off Audyssey. Not simple, but all possible options.

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:53 AM
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Just FYI... Chis K stated in a Facebook post last May:
Quote:
I can say that we are working on something very cool for 2016 release. It will make hard core Audyssey fans happy. And, no, we are not leaving the room correction business.
Just sayin'...

Craig
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I wonder if they have decided to get in the "high end" hardware business and compete against some of their existing re-sellers (e.g. Denon and Marantz) as well as the folks like Emotiva, Datasat, et al. In addition, they certainly need to do some work on the software.

Since 2016 is just around the corner my guess would be CES, but we shall see.
That is a promising hint. To me that suggests they may be finally adding more flexibility and/or higher resolution DSP (ie >24-bit/48kHz), but that's just a guess. They could also be doing similar in external hardware as you suggest.

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Old 12-14-2015, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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That is a promising hint. To me that suggests they may be finally adding more flexibility and/or higher resolution DSP (ie >24-bit/48kHz), but that's just a guess. They could also be doing similar in external hardware as you suggest.
But unless they deal with the many "pecularities" [such as mine] it is still Audyssey, even if it supports 24/192.

Your dealer had Dirac integrated into the LS10?? Interesting.

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Old 12-14-2015, 10:37 AM
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But unless they deal with the many "pecularities" [such as mine] it is still Audyssey, even if it supports 24/192.
I was including/covering such "peculiarities" in the more flexibility. The lack of user input and direction is what handcuffs the very useful Audyssey correction technology. They are plenty effective at smoothing the response. From what I see it's just a few belt & suspenders protections for the general population that result in oddities and misbehavior like you documented above. I would hope that if adding flexibility they would also get the software written to allow manufacturers willing to install more DSP horsepower to operate at a higher sampling rate.

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Your dealer had Dirac integrated into the LS10?? Interesting.
I believe it was a rep's demo unit on loan for his storefront's opening night. I didn't verify first hand, but was told it had an early version of it for testing.

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Old 12-14-2015, 12:56 PM
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That is a promising hint. To me that suggests they may be finally adding more flexibility and/or higher resolution DSP (ie >24-bit/48kHz), but that's just a guess. They could also be doing similar in external hardware as you suggest.
I'm hoping they add some of the functionality that Dirac has, in particular the adjustable target cures, and the ability to store more than one EQ/target. In addition, I would like to see the ability to "ping" the subwoofer simultaneously with at least one other speaker, (probably the CC), to evaluate the splice and optimize the crossover selection and subwoofer distance. Finally, I would like to see some capability to display measurements, ala Dirac, so the user can evaluate the subwoofer position and change it, if necessary.

If they put all this into the Pro Kit, it should be easily doable with the PC interface.
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:28 PM
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I'm hoping they add some of the functionality that Dirac has, in particular the adjustable target cures, and the ability to store more than one EQ/target. In addition, I would like to see the ability to "ping" the subwoofer simultaneously with at least one other speaker, (probably the CC), to evaluate the splice and optimize the crossover selection and subwoofer distance. Finally, I would like to see some capability to display measurements, ala Dirac, so the user can evaluate the subwoofer position and change it, if necessary.

If they put all this into the Pro Kit, it should be easily doable with the PC interface.
I fully agree. Multiple targets curves to compare would make the painfully slow upload time bearable, and more flexible target curve adjustment range would be welcome. One of the biggest missing links on all of the systems is the ability to measure the LF response of a subwoofer or speaker. ARC added their quick-measure feature. I'd love to see the ability to take, save, display, and overlay 2-8 measurements at a time.

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Old 12-14-2015, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
One of the biggest missing links on all of the systems is the ability to measure the LF response of a subwoofer or speaker. ARC added their quick-measure feature. I'd love to see the ability to take, save, display, and overlay 2-8 measurements at a time.
Sounds like they would need to integrate something like REW which can do all of those things

Would not the ability to store more than one set of filters also require some hardware capability that may or may not be present?

@Mark Seaton : The Datasat LS10 will not have the ability to store multiple sets of filters either! The RS20i does and it is quite useful. For example: one for music and another for movies; one for the sweet spot and one for the entire row or room. You catch my drift. I don't know if the hardware itself is capable but given the MSRP of the LS10 will be about 1/2 the price of an RS20i, it needs to have A LOT less capability. The fact that it will ONLY support 15 channels is not much of a restriction on the vast majority of users.

Interesting times.

I have attached 2 additional plot comparisons. One I left the mic in the MLP (bottom plot) and the other (top plot) is what I am now using and moved the mic less than 1 foot.


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Old 12-15-2015, 01:09 PM
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That black trace looks like it should work quite well with an 80 Hz crossover. What does the CC and the Right Front look like?

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Old 12-15-2015, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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That black trace looks like it should work quite well with an 80 Hz crossover. What does the CC and the Right Front look like?
Have not looked at the right or center but I would be surprised if they are not fine as well. I am using 100HZ though 80HZ looked fine.

I am trying to get REW to work on my Mac. The Mac sees the mic but REW does not. I will hopefully get a chance to work on it in the next few days. There are a couple of features that OmniMic does not have the REW does. Test signals to 8 speakers instead of 6. Internal test signals. And some plots that are easier to understand. I already had the minDSP mic so I thought I would give it a try.

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Old 12-17-2015, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I have decided to make some modifications to my LFE abilities. As a result, I am going to sell one of my Peavey IPR 7500 amps [non DSP model] and two of the sealed HST18's I built.

So if you are interested in the cost saving of DIY but don't have the inclination, time, space or tools to do so, this would be the ideal solution.

My subs are wired at 4ohms, so with the Peavey amps, you get a nice 2000 watts per sub. The subs are painted (3 to 4 coats) with the black "truck bed" finish.

I have no way to ship these (130+ pounds each) so we will have to meet in a neutral location (I am about 80 mile from Atlanta). I do not have the original shipping boxes for the amp.

Price for two completed subs and amp is $2300. This is about what have in them, labor excluded.

PM me if interested.

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Old 12-29-2015, 07:36 PM
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I am vicariously basking in the afterglow of this build. Very inspiring on so many levels (acoustics, sub build, PJ...) --- taking copious notes to aid in my new theater project starting in a couple months. Glad you re-sorted out the Marantz buzz, but now it's really sorted as it's gone. That was my solution, too.

This comment caught my eye:
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I finally have the new DIY subs dialed in so they are almost up to the strengths of the SubMersive (range above 50hz) and far superior in the range below it. Happy camper.
I recalled the plot you posted:



I ran into a similar thing where my front and rear subs nicely covered the whole bass range operating together, but individually

While the final composite response is amazingly flat, each was lumpy dippy peaky. What I did was address the peaks in each sub feed individually, then made looked at the total and made "global" adjustments to get the target curve I wanted. In your case I suspect all the EQ is global, so the 50 and 75 Hz peaks in the front subs partially remains beneath the surface. I wonder if there's subtle remnants that the ear can detect, perhaps revealed in a decay plot?

Anyway, if you feel like tinkering, use some PEQ to kill the peaks in each set of subs, then perform an overall pass.

And while I'm here "shoulding" all over the place, have you tried dialing in a target curve such as the one Harman has shown? (The black line, not the red ) It really helps remove any sense of muddiness in the midbass for music.


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Old 12-29-2015, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I am vicariously basking in the afterglow of this build. Very inspiring on so many levels (acoustics, sub build, PJ...) --- taking copious notes to aid in my new theater project starting in a couple months. Glad you re-sorted out the Marantz buzz, but now it's really sorted as it's gone. That was my solution, too.

This comment caught my eye:


I recalled the plot you posted:



I ran into a similar thing where my front and rear subs nicely covered the whole bass range operating together, but individually

While the final composite response is amazingly flat, each was lumpy dippy peaky. What I did was address the peaks in each sub feed individually, then made looked at the total and made "global" adjustments to get the target curve I wanted. In your case I suspect all the EQ is global, so the 50 and 75 Hz peaks in the front subs partially remains beneath the surface. I wonder if there's subtle remnants that the ear can detect, perhaps revealed in a decay plot?

Anyway, if you feel like tinkering, use some PEQ to kill the peaks in each set of subs, then perform an overall pass.

And while I'm here "shoulding" all over the place, have you tried dialing in a target curve such as the one Harman has shown? (The black line, not the red ) It really helps remove any sense of muddiness in the midbass for music.

I will give it a go on taming some of the individual peaks. I'm not sure about that target curve. That is a serious bass lift [about 10db] below 100HZ. Experimenting like that will be a lot easier once I get the RS20i. A LOT easier. You can change the target curve for one speaker (in this case, the subs) and resend the entire filter set to the RS20i. A few minutes work and then have the ability to compare to other targets.

Your idea of taming those peaks is an interesting one and I will definitely give it a try, Since I did not tame the peaks when I had my SubMersives either, that probably does not explain the differences in the two subs. One of the key elements in the sonic difference is driver efficiency. If you look at the raw HST18 data on Data-Bass and compare that to what Mark Seaton has on his forum for the near-mic data of the SubMersive driver, it is plain that the SubMersive is a good bit more efficient above 40HZ than is the HST18. And I'm sure there are other differences that are way beyond my pay grade to comprehend.

To the extent we (we most likely = Mark) can extract the best parts of the HST18 subs (the weight and authority below about 50HZ), and the articulation, definition and apparent "speed" of the SubMersive above 50HZ, I will be one step closer to Audio Nirvana (wherever and whatever that is).

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Old 12-31-2015, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I haven't checked nor even asked, but were you able to confirm if the RS20's internal PEQ was in the loop when Dirac runs its measurements? It's certainly possible with their hardware, but pleasantly surprising if it was actually enabled that way.
There are PEQ's on both input and output channels. I know that the output PEQ's are in the loop when you run Dirac. It is really helpful in reducing some high energy peaks prior to running Dirac.

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Old 12-31-2015, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I have ordered the Datasat RS20i. What an addiction!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:29 AM
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I have ordered the Datasat RS20i. What an addiction!!!!!!!!!!
Congrats!

I will have to make a trip down to hear your fabulous room after all these changes.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Congrats!

I will have to make a trip down to hear your fabulous room after all these changes.
Love to have you come back and visit. Once I am satisfied that I have the RS20i running correctly [and my new sub combination operating as it should], I will post my thoughts and then let's plan the visit.

As a reminder, I am about 80 miles east of Atlanta.

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Old 01-01-2016, 01:27 PM
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Love to have you come back and visit. Once I am satisfied that I have the RS20i running correctly [and my new sub combination operating as it should], I will post my thoughts and then let's plan the visit.

As a reminder, I am about 80 miles east of Atlanta.
Sitting on the veryyyy edge of my seat.
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:54 PM
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Love to have you come back and visit. Once I am satisfied that I have the RS20i running correctly [and my new sub combination operating as it should], I will post my thoughts and then let's plan the visit.

As a reminder, I am about 80 miles east of Atlanta.
Looking forward to it.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:54 AM
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Wish the RS20i was more affordable Way outside of my price range. Cant wait to see how it goes.
Man! 4 Seaton HPs. One is more than enough for me....... well I take that back I do want to add another later

Love the Triads and the room. beautiful layout.
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Wish the RS20i was more affordable Way outside of my price range. Cant wait to see how it goes.
Man! 4 Seaton HPs. One is more than enough for me....... well I take that back I do want to add another later

Love the Triads and the room. beautiful layout.
Thank you for the kind words. My bet is that within a year or less, most of what the RS20i offers will be available at 1/2 price (e.g. Datasat LS10) or less, (Emotiva or miniDSP). Be patient - the price of technology always drops. The first 42 inch flat panel TV was $20,000 and now you can get one for less than $500.00!!!!

And I love your theater - great job!!

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