Subyguy's Theater V3 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-03-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I figured it’s about time I start a thread on my current theater build. This is the third one we’ve built and the best so far. I started off about 10 years ago with a full paradigm system (studio 100’s) and a DIY 100” screen with Panny projector. I then upgraded to a 126” Carada screen with an Epson. Soon after that we moved and I changed to JTR triple 12 LCR, single 8 wides and slant 8 surrounds. The theater was in the end of the basement with no windows and we put 18” of cellulose insulation in the ceiling and it sounded great. That system performed great until we moved again and we started over.

Our current system in still in the basement but this time we have a lot of windows we blacked out with blackout blinds. This time I wanted to go with an AT screen so I ordered a 150” 16:9 Seymour screen and built a simple frame/false wall for it. I also put a bunch of ATS and DIY absorption panels covering most of the front wall (not all are shown in these pictures). I also have ATS panels on the first and second reflections although the Orbit Shifter partially covers one…I’m considering making an absorbent panel to cover the one side of it.
The next step was to cover the walls, ceiling and floor with black velvet from SY fabrics. In order to attach it I cut 2’ X 3’ tiles out of rigid Styrofoam insulation board and wrapped them with velvet. These were easy enough to attach with just a nail or two into a stud. For the floor we decided to build a simple stage and cover it with velvet. All of the panels around the screen were built with 2x2 lumber with velvet stretched over them. I then countersunk rare earth magnets into the panel frames and screen frame and the all snap on. So far none have even moved or fallen off even with heavy bass scenes. I used 50yds of the triple black velvet.









(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #2 of 14 Old 01-03-2014, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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The last item was to build a 14” riser for the second row. It’s built out of 2x12’s and 2x6’s covered with two layers of ½” ply and stuffed with insulation. I bought a cheap shag throw rug from Costco and only had to make one cut for it to fit perfectly. A couple staples and it hasn’t moved…a lot easier than stretching real carpet over it. We put our old theater recliners and some Ikea chairs up there and bought powered lazyboy recliners for the front. They are the most comfortable chairs I found and have a powered headrest which is key for long movies!






As far as equipment goes I’m running the following gear in a full middle atlantic slim 5 rack sunk into one wall and accessible from behind from the furnace room:
Denon 4311 – still a great piece of gear despite being several years old
Oppo BDP-93
Shaw cable gateway and portal system that also connects to the box upstairs
(6) Crown xls 1500’s running all the speakers and one small dual opposed 15” sub I had built previously
(1) Peavey IPR2-7500 running two Mach5 UXL-18’s in sealed 4 ft3 boxes from DIY soundgroup
Minidsp for the bass management
Apple TV
(2) pull out media drawers for bluray storage
I also added the tinted plexi door which was a fortune but really finished off the rack.

The rest of the audio gear consists of:
JTR triple 12 LCR
JTR single 8 wides
JTR slanted 8 surrounds
DIY 10” eminence coax rears
JTR Orbit Shifter 18” horn sub
DIY dual opposed 15” sub
(2) UXL-18 sealed subs






These pics are from before the IPR2 went in.

(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #3 of 14 Old 01-03-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The LCR and uxl’s are behind the screen while the orbit shifter is along one side wall which isn’t ideal but with a sub the size of a fridge you sometimes don’t have any choice.

For the video portion I then upgraded to a JVC RS4810 and the Seymour screen. I also added a Darby Darblet.

My setup with all the subs is a bit different than most. The basement is basically one large room and in total is almost 15,000ft3 so it takes a lot of displacement and power to get a good bass response. The orbit Shifter has ridiculous capability within it’s comfort zone of 100 to about 25Hz in my room. Below 25Hz it falls off pretty fast. I could get it to dig quite a bit deeper by corner loading it but then the response wasn’t nearly as smooth. I had experimented in my previous theater with running the dual 15’s for the deep bass and handing over to the OS with good results but the 15’s just didn’t have the juice to keep up. As a result when we built the new theater I built the two UXL-18’s and they work very well. Using the minidsp I was able to tweak the delays and crossovers to get a very smooth response even with the two very different types of subs (sealed and horn). I briefly tried playing them together and it was very difficult to get rid of the horrible cancellations between them.
Upgrading to the IPR-7500 for the uxl’s made a huge difference from the bridged xls-1500’s I was running due to the additional power as well as the better low frequency response. The crowns appear to have a filter at 15 or 20Hz that murdered the bottom end…they do work amazingly well for the speakers though, as they are silent and light.

I have been asked dozens of times for details on maxing the sub types so here is a quick rundown of what I have done. I use the Dayton Omnimic to run frequency sweeps and typically just put the mic right between the two front seats at ear height. -I usually start with just the Orbit Shifter (OS) and using the minidsp I tweak it to get the smoothest response possible and see where it is going to drop off.
-I then play with the delay on the OS to get the smoothest transition from the mains that I can. I sometimes even add a low pass filter if I’m getting any cancelling with the mains and tweak the XO in the Denon.
-Once I get the OS dialed in I switch to just the UXL’s running and add a low pass filter around where the OS was dropping off and tweak their response a bit.
-I then run sweeps with all three subs running and see what it looks like…and it usually isn’t good. I have to play with the delay on the UXL’s (careful not to mess with what I’ve already set on the OS as it will affect the XO with the mains) to eliminate any interference between them and the OS. I also had to trial and error pretty much every combination of low pass and high pass types and slopes to get the best XO region between the subs.
-Just to add some more tactile feel to the riser and fill in the rear a bit I added an old dual opposed 15” box I built years ago with some Soundsplinter drivers to the back. I found that it didn’t appear to change the measured curve very much but when set at relatively modest levels it did add a fuller sound to the bass so I have left it. It is getting a bridged xls 1500 since I don’t care if it rolls off early.
-I don’t think it would be possible to pull off an arrangement like this without the ability to individually adjust the delay, xo type and slope for each sub as well as a good measurement system so you can make realtime adjustments and see the affect.

Here's the final response (so far)

The initial sealed and OS responses

These are the crossovers

Sealed filters

OS filters

(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-03-2014, 11:22 AM
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Very nice!!!!! Love the room, the rack, the equipment...especially the JTR speakers smile.gif


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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post #5 of 14 Old 01-03-2014, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Next steps:
I have just ordered a second OS and 3 Noesis 212HT’s to swap out the triple 12’s with. I love the T12’s but have been intrigued by the reviews and description of the Noesis. The second OS will hopefully allow me to achieve a smoother FR with less eq as well as allow the horns to dig a bit deeper to take some load off the UXL’s. I basically quit once I was flat to 10Hz now but I think with the new arrangement I should be able to achieve flat to as low as I can measure/my electronics can handle as well as run even more of a house curve. There is the occasional scene when running things hot that I get a bit nervous and I don’t like that feeling. The second sub should give me all the headroom I could ever need even in my room.

(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #6 of 14 Old 01-10-2014, 01:42 PM
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Interesting, thanks for sharing.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #7 of 14 Old 02-22-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyguy View Post

Using the minidsp I was able to tweak the delays and crossovers to get a very smooth response even with the two very different types of subs (sealed and horn). I briefly tried playing them together and it was very difficult to get rid of the horrible cancellations between them.

I have been asked dozens of times for details on maxing the sub types so here is a quick rundown of what I have done. I use the Dayton Omnimic to run frequency sweeps and typically just put the mic right between the two front seats at ear height. -I usually start with just the Orbit Shifter (OS) and using the minidsp I tweak it to get the smoothest response possible and see where it is going to drop off.
-I then play with the delay on the OS to get the smoothest transition from the mains that I can. I sometimes even add a low pass filter if I’m getting any cancelling with the mains and tweak the XO in the Denon.
-Once I get the OS dialed in I switch to just the UXL’s running and add a low pass filter around where the OS was dropping off and tweak their response a bit.
-I then run sweeps with all three subs running and see what it looks like…and it usually isn’t good. I have to play with the delay on the UXL’s (careful not to mess with what I’ve already set on the OS as it will affect the XO with the mains) to eliminate any interference between them and the OS. I also had to trial and error pretty much every combination of low pass and high pass types and slopes to get the best XO region between the subs.
-Just to add some more tactile feel to the riser and fill in the rear a bit I added an old dual opposed 15” box I built years ago with some Soundsplinter drivers to the back. I found that it didn’t appear to change the measured curve very much but when set at relatively modest levels it did add a fuller sound to the bass so I have left it. It is getting a bridged xls 1500 since I don’t care if it rolls off early.


Upon reading this again, I want to comment again, the stuff in bold above, so important for others to read.


Quote:
Originally Posted by subyguy View Post

I don’t think it would be possible to pull off an arrangement like this without the ability to individually adjust the delay, xo type and slope for each sub as well as a good measurement system so you can make realtime adjustments and see the affect.

^ This +1

The combo of both individual manipulation of delay times, and adjustment of filter slopes/amounts, such powerful tools when viewing in real time.

Bravo, and have fun with the Noesis set.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-22-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments. I have spent countless hours tweaking and experimenting with all kinds if different approaches. It seems every time I try again I learn something new that improves the sound slightly. Adding the second OS will be interesting for sure. I hope to be able to corner load them both to help them dig a bit deeper and take some laud off the uxls. Can't wait to play some more.

(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #9 of 14 Old 03-18-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally got my Noesis 212's and second OS. wow, what a difference with both. In fact my wife walked in when I first started playing music and she immediately commented on how much better it sounded. The second shifter flattened out my room response perfectly and got me from about 6 filters to two cuts and that's it. Unfortunately my big hdmi to the PJ seems to have taken a dump so I'm out of commission until my new one shows.
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(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #10 of 14 Old 03-18-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyguy View Post

I finally got my Noesis 212's and second OS. wow, what a difference with both. In fact my wife walked in when I first started playing music and she immediately commented on how much better it sounded. The second shifter flattened out my room response perfectly and got me from about 6 filters to two cuts and that's it. Unfortunately my big hdmi to the PJ seems to have taken a dump so I'm out of commission until my new one shows.



Very nice!!! Congrats!!!!


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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post #11 of 14 Old 03-26-2014, 11:53 AM
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Excellent system! smile.gif


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post #12 of 14 Old 03-27-2014, 03:04 PM
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The font size on the forums is a bit small so when I first saw your thread it looked like "Sub guy's theatre". I thought "Sweet, this guy's going to have some kickass subwoofers if he calls himself sub guy". Then I took another look and realize, oh, it's Subaru guy.... 

 

Regardless, you still have some kickass subs there. :cool: 

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post #13 of 14 Old 03-31-2014, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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That's funny. I don't even have a Subaru anymore...should really look into changing my username but that seems like a lot of work.

(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

My theater:

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post #14 of 14 Old 04-15-2014, 05:58 PM
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Hi subyguy, nice theater room. I have a question...how much better are the Noesis 212HT over the triple 12?
The reason i ask is because someone in this forum is sell them and i was thinking about getting them.

Thanks
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