Top 10 Things You Need to Know About Choosing Between HD and UHD - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 169 Old 11-23-2015, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by leedesert View Post
So I'm buying a new 60-65" for our new home next month. Should I get a 4k or save money with a quality 1080p set? What's going to be the wisest investment?
It's not about being wise at this time, it's about money or quality. Can you be happy with a 1080p for the next 5 or more years...I don't know how often you budget for a new TV. Everyone also has to consider HDCP2.2 and full 18Gbps HDMI 2.0. I don't know the status as of today, but this article will get you thinking and there's probably threads on AVS that can get you up to date information. http://www.cnet.com/news/hdcp-2-2-wh...-need-to-know/ Full HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Capable 4K LCD List Thread

Coincidentally the latest Panasonic which appears to be 4k future proof is only getting mediocre reviews even with a full calibration.
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post #152 of 169 Old 11-23-2015, 07:23 AM
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Good to know. I'll keep this in mind as I'm looking for my components.
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post #153 of 169 Old 11-23-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeHawk View Post
It's not about being wise at this time, it's about money or quality. Can you be happy with a 1080p for the next 5 or more years...I don't know how often you budget for a new TV. Everyone also has to consider HDCP2.2 and full 18Gbps HDMI 2.0. I don't know the status as of today, but this article will get you thinking and there's probably threads on AVS that can get you up to date information. http://www.cnet.com/news/hdcp-2-2-wh...-need-to-know/ Full HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Capable 4K LCD List Thread

Coincidentally the latest Panasonic which appears to be 4k future proof is only getting mediocre reviews even with a full calibration.
This is good advice. I'll only add that there are some really great 4k sets at 60-70" available now for really good prices. If you are viewing good source material, you will be happy. The cable, satellite and internet options are improving for HD and 4k rapidly. I think we're in the "leap forward" stage and the next 6-12 months will make owning a 4k set start to look smart. So much of what's available on Xfinity or Direct is looking really good. The pressure is on to deliver clean, digital signals. Even this season the heavily compressed football broadcasts are starting to disappear. I am rarely disappointed when I spend a nite in front of my set.
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post #154 of 169 Old 11-24-2015, 05:35 PM
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I was reading on Best Buy's website that they upgrade all their 4k TV's to 2.2 automatically, its part of the price. When I look on Amazon there is no mention of anything like that so what should I do while shopping?
I want to make sure everything is 2.2 compliant because I always buy the best I can so it will last 3 to 5 years minimum.
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post #155 of 169 Old 11-24-2015, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by leedesert View Post
I was reading on Best Buy's website that they upgrade all their 4k TV's to 2.2 automatically, its part of the price. When I look on Amazon there is no mention of anything like that so what should I do while shopping?

I want to make sure everything is 2.2 compliant because I always buy the best I can so it will last 3 to 5 years minimum.

Please link to that false claim there's no magic elixir to upgrade to 2.2 it either contains the proper hardware or not. Plenty purchased the first generation sets that can't accept 4K streaming then second generation that accept streaming but not capable of........ HD guru has a good list of the capabilities of current sets but there's no guarantee even those are future proof.


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post #156 of 169 Old 11-24-2015, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
Please link to that false claim there's no magic elixir to upgrade to 2.2 it either contains the proper hardware or not. Plenty purchased the first generation sets that can't accept 4K streaming then second generation that accept streaming but not capable of........ HD guru has a good list of the capabilities of current sets but there's no guarantee even those are future proof.


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It's not a false claim, they upgrade the hardware before you purchase.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Home-Pro...at332700050000

Not All 4K TVs Are Created Equal

While this advancement in TV technology is very exciting, some manufacturers may release TVs with less developed technology at discounted prices. That's why it's important to understand the technologies within your 4K Ultra HD TV, whether they'll allow you to stay future proof as 4K standards change, and whether they'll allow you to watch all available content in 4K now and in the future.

All 4K Ultra HD TVs at Best Buy will be equipped with HEVC/H.265 (High Efficiency Video Coding). This allows the demanding size of 4K content to be compressed and streamed over the Internet. This is critically important, because for now, 4K content can only be streamed or downloaded. In addition, all Netflix 4K content requires HEVC to be built into the TV.
Upscaling the picture quality of all your current movies and TV shows to near-4K Ultra HD quality is a fantastic feature, and Best Buy is committed to carrying 4K Ultra HD TVs that offer the finest upscaling. Keep in mind that some 4K TVs sold elsewhere won't be able to upscale at all.
All 4K Ultra HD TVs at Best Buy will have HDCP 2.2 installed, which will help future-proof your TV and ensure you can view all 4K content now and in the future.
Newer high-speed HDMI cable allows for 4K content to be displayed all the way up to 60fps, which is the highest frame-per-second rate available. All UHD TVs currently at Best Buy have this 60fps capability.
Overall, you can purchase your 4K Ultra HD TV with confidence at Best Buy. All of our current 4K TVs have passed our strict requirements for a high-quality 4K picture, premier upscaling of content, future proofing through software updates, and the ability to display all available 4K content today and in the future.
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post #157 of 169 Old 11-24-2015, 06:27 PM
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They appear to be saying they don't offer any sets not 2.2 I wouldn't purchase a new set expecting some moron from BB opening the back doing an upgrade.


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post #158 of 169 Old 11-24-2015, 06:37 PM
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Actually I looked at the 4k TVs on their website and they're the same models available everywhere that do not come with 2.2.
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post #159 of 169 Old 11-25-2015, 09:45 AM
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I'm laughing at the image of a "geek Squad" member cracking open Tv's in the back room and soldering new HDMI boards in sets , then flashing the proper firmware to support 2.2 . Around here even in the "Magnolia" high end section their idea of "calibrating" is hanging the set on the wall and making sure it is in fact in dynamic mode. Most of the high end sets look like complete garbage , I don't know how they sell $5000+ sets when they look worse than the $400-$600 sets at costco because of set up and content .

It was like that when I got here
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post #160 of 169 Old 11-25-2015, 05:53 PM
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Thanks for the info, Ill be in the market for a new one this BF.
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post #161 of 169 Old 12-02-2015, 03:06 PM
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Im glad I found this place again from a while back and even more glad I read this thread.
Im currently forcing myself to not to go into BB. I have been looking at the LG OLED 9500. I want the 65" but my budget will not allow it so the 55" will have to do. I watch from around 8'-10' so I dont think Id be giving up that much.
At this moment I have a fully functional and clear as the day I bought it Pioneer elite. Its a 720p and comparing it to the 40" Sony Bravia 108p in my man cave the Pioneer has such a quality of the color and blacks watching the same content its still beautiful.
The 4K displays in the BB and elsewhere are stunning but Im still on the fence. Im leaning to waiting for the next years model to come out and decide.
The whole usb 2.2 thing has me concerned as well since so few options have it and I was told buy a Samsung rep at the BB that there will be some kind of upgrade box available for the ones that are 2.0. Dont know if thats true or not.
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post #162 of 169 Old 12-05-2015, 10:27 AM
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The whole usb 2.2 thing has me concerned as well since so few options have it and I was told buy a Samsung rep at the BB that there will be some kind of upgrade box available for the ones that are 2.0. Dont know if thats true or not.
I think it's HDMI that's up to version 2.0, with HDCP (copy protection) that's version 2.2.
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post #163 of 169 Old 10-06-2016, 03:48 PM
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DirecTV advertises some UHD content:

http://www.directv.com/technology/4k

Mostly sports. If I remember right, some of the last Olympics were available in UHD.

I presume the big deal for 4K is games (or will the 3D virtual reality stuff mostly come first?) and more so, as better computer monitors. For TV? Who cares?

(Though I admit I sometimes zoom HD in to read newspaper text, etc., when it appears on screen. Otherwise SD is fine.)

I think HD became big only because the FCC forced the SD phase out. Assuming that the FCC's major goal was to free up broadcast bandwidth so they could auction it to wireless companies (thereby increasing FCC fee-paid income, thereby increasing the number of FCC employees that FCC administrators oversee, thereby increasing FCC administrator pay grade), they have no motivation to push UHD and kill HD in the same way.

So different from color TV, which really caught on big-time, because people really, really wanted it - though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_television says that it took almost 20 years for color TV sales to surpass B&W TVs, due to cost and availability of programming. Is there any reason for UHD to become dominant faster?

I suppose that major Internet companies, like Comcast, have good reason to push UHD and higher res video... The more bandwidth people need, the more they can sell. But it's a hard sell, when so many people watch TV on their pocket-size smart-phones.

If you have unlimited money, here's an idea. Get a Google Pixel XL smartphone, with a 2560 x 1440 resolution. Not quite 4K, but getting there. And get a magnifying glass, so you can tell the difference.

Last edited by MRG1; 10-06-2016 at 04:13 PM.
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post #164 of 169 Old 10-06-2016, 08:41 PM
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I think HD became big only because the FCC forced the SD phase out. Assuming that the FCC's major goal was to free up broadcast bandwidth so they could auction it to wireless companies (thereby increasing FCC fee-paid income, thereby increasing the number of FCC employees that FCC administrators oversee, thereby increasing FCC administrator pay grade), they have no motivation to push UHD and kill HD in the same way.
They phased out analogue. The companies could still broadcast SD in digital.
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post #165 of 169 Old 10-06-2016, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MRG1 View Post
I think HD became big only because the FCC forced the SD phase out. Assuming that the FCC's major goal was to free up broadcast bandwidth so they could auction it to wireless companies (thereby increasing FCC fee-paid income, thereby increasing the number of FCC employees that FCC administrators oversee, thereby increasing FCC administrator pay grade), they have no motivation to push UHD and kill HD in the same way.
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They phased out analogue. The companies could still broadcast SD in digital.
My recollection was that it was realized that if we would get OTA HD, we would have to switch to digital. However, stations were not required to go HD, just to digital, and they could continue broadcasting SD if they so wished. (In fact, today there are a number of multicast networks that are primarily SD that ride the subchannels of major broadcast stations.)

However, the FCC does have a web page that makes me think MRG1 wasn't too far off (other than trying to grow the FCC):

https://www.fcc.gov/general/digital-television
Quote:
An important benefit of the switch to all-digital broadcasting is that parts of the valuable broadcast spectrum have been freed up for public safety communications by groups such as police, fire departments and rescue squads. Also, some of the spectrum has been auctioned to companies that will be able to provide consumers with advanced wireless services, such as wireless broadband.
Back in the heyday of the transition, the intent was to convert all stations to digital, and Congress was willing to put up tax dollars to support part of the transition effort with a coupon system for buying converter boxes so TVs with analog (NTSC) tuners could receive digital (ATSC) broadcasts.

I really don't expect Congress to be willing to fund converter boxes for an ATSC 1 to ATSC 3 transition, so I don't expect OTA UltraHD to be more than just a niche for a long time. But pay providers (cable, satellite, or even encrypted OTA) as well as streaming and UltraHD Blu-ray may end up being the major sources of UltraHD content, leaving OTA being mostly HD with SD subchannels.

But then I am no stranger to being wrong.

My very humble setup:
Spoiler!
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post #166 of 169 Old 10-07-2016, 08:25 PM
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OK, I should have said NTSC (the analog broadcast standard) rather than SD. Most of the stations near me have sub-channel 1 at HD (720p or 1080i), along with several SD (480i) sub-channels. A few don't have any HD sub-channels. In that sense, SD is alive and well in my area.

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However, the FCC does have a web page that makes me think MRG1 wasn't too far off (other than trying to grow the FCC):
Why don't you think the FCC's main goal was to grow the FCC, and with it, FCC administrator salaries?

In a capitalist economy, which the U.S. more or less has, everyone is effectively encouraged to maximize their income. In U.S. government work in general, administrators are economically rewarded for growing their departments. In fact, if they don't, the administrators over THEM in turn will give them bad reviews. This is perfectly normal and logical - as most people who deal with government agencies recognize. (I was never in a U.S. government agency, but I was a contractor to a government agency for 25 years, and these tendencies were very obvious.) If you analyze and predict government policy in terms of maximizing administrator income, you will usually be right.

BTW, that isn't exactly corruption, because it is the way the system is designed to work. Economic carrots and sticks are used to regulate employee behaviour. Employees who don't follow the "correct" patterns are treated as problems.

There is a facet I didn't mention. The FCC is one of a few U.S. government agencies that is "fee paid": They get no money from congress or the general budget or the general treasury. Everything they get comes from user fees. The more user fees (and auction income) from the regulated industries that they can collect, the bigger their programs can become, and the better FCC administrator pay grades can be.

I would guess that wireless services generate more FCC income than TV broadcast channels - because the FCC has been systematically looting TV broadcast spectrum, and giving it over to wireless services.

Last edited by MRG1; 10-07-2016 at 08:42 PM.
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post #167 of 169 Old 11-09-2016, 11:13 AM
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So I'm buying a new 60-65" for our new home next month. Should I get a 4k or save money with a quality 1080p set? What's going to be the wisest investment?
At about this time last year (so it was likely a Black Friday promo), I bought a 4K 55" Vizio (see sig) for about $800. It supports (and I use HDMI 2.2). It got great reviews for picture quality and explicit tuning instructions are available. It replaced my 2 yr old LG 55" 3D Smart TV as my main screen because, despite no real source support, the out-of-the-box upscaled picture is better. I realize this thread and post are a year old, but I wanted to point out that without a huge outlay, there are good option for going with 4K/UHD over 1080p.

I paid too much for the LG (good price, but just didn't get the longevity). I replaced it with the much less expensive Vizio, but like @leedesert , I'm already in the market for a new 65" as part of my HT upgrade which has included the RX-A3060, ATMOS/DTS:X, and will also include (probably) the new Oppo UHD player (yet to be released). These latter two updates will be dependent on the status of HDR developments.

But meanwhile, I'm very pleased with my Vizio.

Thanks for the great topic and info, Scott.

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post #168 of 169 Old 11-24-2016, 12:37 AM
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Would like to know whether Epson 6040ub 4k enhancement is enough or is it necessary to get the new Sony 675es with true 4k for proper 4k gaming and movies.... Would like your suggestion thank you very much!

Audio: Klipsch Rp250 5.1 with Yamaha 3040 receiver
Video: Epson Eh-Tw8200
System: Alienware 17
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post #169 of 169 Old Today, 10:25 AM
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Size matters... I think Most people prefer HDR to 4k as the biggest difference anyway.
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