Ask the Editors: Are Dolby Atmos-Enabled Speakers Special? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 42 Old 03-11-2016, 08:46 AM
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Hi all

I am thinking of installing an Atmos setup. I currently run 7.1. My speakers are Klipsch with RF-82s as mains and RS 62ii as main surrounds (very large surrounds). My room is about 1700 cubic ft in size with 8 foot ceilings. I sit about 8.5 ft from the main towers. If I install two height speakers, they would be situated about slightly forward from my main seating position about 1.5ft to 2ft forward from my ears. The height speakers would be about 4ft away from the main surrounds and about 6ft back from the main towers. The main surrounds are about 7ft from the main towers.

Obviously all pairs of speakers mentioned above would be fairly close to each other. In your honest opinion would it be worth the added cost for performance or does this sound like a mashup of confusion? To myself this sounds like to much of a cluster of confusion however I don't know. I'm after quality and not quantity. FWIW I own an SVS PB 13Ultra subwoofer and an Anthem Statement P5 multichannel monoblock amp. I use a smaller amp to run the surround backs with extra channels available for Atmos.

Thank you

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post #32 of 42 Old 03-11-2016, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
Hi all

I am thinking of installing an Atmos setup. I currently run 7.1. My speakers are Klipsch with RF-82s as mains and RS 62ii as main surrounds (very large surrounds). My room is about 1700 cubic ft in size with 8 foot ceilings. I sit about 8.5 ft from the main towers. If I install two height speakers, they would be situated about slightly forward from my main seating position about 1.5ft to 2ft forward from my ears. The height speakers would be about 4ft away from the main surrounds and about 6ft back from the main towers. The main surrounds are about 7ft from the main towers.

Obviously all pairs of speakers mentioned above would be fairly close to each other. In your honest opinion would it be worth the added cost for performance or does this sound like a mashup of confusion? To myself this sounds like to much of a cluster of confusion however I don't know. I'm after quality and not quantity. FWIW I own an SVS PB 13Ultra subwoofer and an Anthem Statement P5 multichannel monoblock amp. I use a smaller amp to run the surround backs with extra channels available for Atmos.

Thank you
Personally I think your room could be perfect for Atmos. If you think about how object based sound works, each speaker will only get sound when the event calls for it. Yet, in other situations where there is an ambiance (think jungle scene or maybe something like the sandstorms in Interstellar) your speaker proximity should provide a better/tighter transition since they won't be too far apart. This would make the sensation of being in the middle of the scene more realistic.

I was in the AMC 25 Dolby Cinema in NYC and there, the speakers are all aligned relative lively close to each other as well.

In my own room which is 18 feet long and 13 feet wide with 7.5 feet tall ceilings I'm using 5.2.4 and just finished testing 7.2.4 and I love it! I got a hold of the sept. 2015 atmos demo disc files and they sound awesome. I'm using the andrew jones elite atmos speakers and the Helicopter demo (along with the others) had myself and my guests looking up at the ceiling the whole time!

HT Room: 18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains , SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.
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post #33 of 42 Old 03-11-2016, 08:17 PM
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Thank you very much Welldun for your detailed explanation. This is exactly the help I was looking for. This helps to cement my decision in going for Atmos. All I really need are either replacing my towers for the Klipsch Atmos ones or adding height modules they make and also getting an Atmos pre-pro. I also would prefer to add speakers that fire off the ceiling in that I don't want to get into a drywall project by installing in-ceiling speakers. Too much hassle.

Thanks again

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post #34 of 42 Old 03-13-2016, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
Thank you very much Welldun for your detailed explanation. This is exactly the help I was looking for. This helps to cement my decision in going for Atmos. All I really need are either replacing my towers for the Klipsch Atmos ones or adding height modules they make and also getting an Atmos pre-pro. I also would prefer to add speakers that fire off the ceiling in that I don't want to get into a drywall project by installing in-ceiling speakers. Too much hassle.

Thanks again
Glad I could help.

When you do finally set up, assuming that your run the calibration software that comes with your avr, keep these two things in mind;

1. Make sure that the avr is adding the distance from the upfiring speaker to the ceiling and not just a straight line distance as in what you would have with just your main speakers. For example if your main Left and right speakers measure a distance of 9 feet from the main listening position and and then you add the atmos modules, If the distance from the modules to the ceiling is 4 feet, then your AVR should be showing a distance of 13 feet or so for the atmos modules.

2. Based on what Andrew Jones suggested for his Atmos enabled speakers during one of his demos, after your AVR has finished calibrating the system, feel free to add a few more db of gain to the Atmos channels. In one of the demos, due to the ceiling construction and the energy loss introduced by ceiling material's absorption, he added an extra 5db of gain to the atmos channels which resulted in a stellar presentation and experience. For what It's worth, with my own system (which you can see in my signature below), after calibration in my room I added 2db to each of the 4 atmos channels and it sound Great. Just make sure you add the same amount to each channel independently of what the original setting was.

P.S. If you have an opportunity to get the September 2015 Atmos disc, do it. It has several demos (including the audio only clips like the helicopter, Santeria, Rain storm) that really show off the technology. Good luck and have fun!

HT Room: 18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains , SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.
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post #35 of 42 Old 03-18-2016, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by welldun View Post
Glad I could help.

When you do finally set up, assuming that your run the calibration software that comes with your avr, keep these two things in mind;

1. Make sure that the avr is adding the distance from the upfiring speaker to the ceiling and not just a straight line distance as in what you would have with just your main speakers. For example if your main Left and right speakers measure a distance of 9 feet from the main listening position and and then you add the atmos modules, If the distance from the modules to the ceiling is 4 feet, then your AVR should be showing a distance of 13 feet or so for the atmos modules.

2. Based on what Andrew Jones suggested for his Atmos enabled speakers during one of his demos, after your AVR has finished calibrating the system, feel free to add a few more db of gain to the Atmos channels. In one of the demos, due to the ceiling construction and the energy loss introduced by ceiling material's absorption, he added an extra 5db of gain to the atmos channels which resulted in a stellar presentation and experience. For what It's worth, with my own system (which you can see in my signature below), after calibration in my room I added 2db to each of the 4 atmos channels and it sound Great. Just make sure you add the same amount to each channel independently of what the original setting was.

P.S. If you have an opportunity to get the September 2015 Atmos disc, do it. It has several demos (including the audio only clips like the helicopter, Santeria, Rain storm) that really show off the technology. Good luck and have fun!
Thanks again Welldun for your post reply. I have a technical question about Atmos. I an Atmos movie, will the 5 main channels - front mains, center, and surround left and right be the predominant work-horses and the surround backs and heights be added only on scenes where tracks are warranted for those speakers or is everything working independently throughout the whole movie. I know that in a 7.1 movie, the main 5 provide the lion's share of the sound experience. Will this work in the same way with Atmos.

Thanks and please ask for further clarification if I am not clear with my question.

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post #36 of 42 Old 03-19-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bass excavator View Post
Thanks again Welldun for your post reply. I have a technical question about Atmos. I an Atmos movie, will the 5 main channels - front mains, center, and surround left and right be the predominant work-horses and the surround backs and heights be added only on scenes where tracks are warranted for those speakers or is everything working independently throughout the whole movie. I know that in a 7.1 movie, the main 5 provide the lion's share of the sound experience. Will this work in the same way with Atmos.

Thanks and please ask for further clarification if I am not clear with my question.
I believe that Atmos or not the front stage(especially the center speaker) will usually do the bulk of the work. The same was experienced in the Dolby Cinema that I visited. Since most of the action is being presented in front of you, It follows that most of the sound will also come from that direction. that is not to say that the rest of the speakers won't be working hard when its their turn, but simply that the front speakers will probably be the work horses. For now, I believe movies will continue to be recorded this way so the final presentation will also follow suit. What Atmos adds is a more accurate experience by allowing the sound to follow the camera with more precision. Setting up your speakers in a way that will allow the sound to travel all around you, will put you in the middle of the action. Enjoy!

HT Room: 18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains , SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.
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post #37 of 42 Old 08-26-2017, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by welldun View Post
I believe that Atmos or not the front stage(especially the center speaker) will usually do the bulk of the work. The same was experienced in the Dolby Cinema that I visited. Since most of the action is being presented in front of you, It follows that most of the sound will also come from that direction. that is not to say that the rest of the speakers won't be working hard when its their turn, but simply that the front speakers will probably be the work horses. For now, I believe movies will continue to be recorded this way so the final presentation will also follow suit. What Atmos adds is a more accurate experience by allowing the sound to follow the camera with more precision. Setting up your speakers in a way that will allow the sound to travel all around you, will put you in the middle of the action. Enjoy!
Dear all,

many thanks for your valuable insights in this thread and page as the whole.

I have a similar question like 'bass excavator'. My room is quite small as well and I am thinking of buying 4 Martin Logan Atmos players.

Now, the rears cannot be placed behind since my sofa is located directly at the wall:

TV




Atmos>____SOFA____<Atmos



Would it make sense to buy two rear Dolby Atmos and place them so the sound bounces off the flat ceiling directly to my main sitting position. Or should I position them differently?

Or does it not make sense to buy any Atmos given my roomly conditions?

Cheers,
Carsten
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post #38 of 42 Old 08-26-2017, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Carsten Hdt View Post
Dear all,

many thanks for your valuable insights in this thread and page as the whole.

I have a similar question like 'bass excavator'. My room is quite small as well and I am thinking of buying 4 Martin Logan Atmos players.

Now, the rears cannot be placed behind since my sofa is located directly at the wall:

TV




Atmos>____SOFA____<Atmos



Would it make sense to buy two rear Dolby Atmos and place them so the sound bounces off the flat ceiling directly to my main sitting position. Or should I position them differently?

Or does it not make sense to buy any Atmos given my roomly conditions?

Cheers,
Carsten
Quick add: my TV is located in front of the sofa and not to the left (somehow the space characters were not represented correctly in my sketch before)
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post #39 of 42 Old 08-28-2017, 01:06 PM
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Quick add: my TV is located in front of the sofa and not to the left (somehow the space characters were not represented correctly in my sketch before)
I believe that you will still get good overhead sound even if the speakers end up where your diagram illustrates them. In my own setup I have the rear atmos speakers behind and left and right of the second row of seating, and the effects still work very well for all seats. You can see the speaker location the pic below.

*Note: Once you've calibrated the system, you may have to experiment with the positioning of the speakers a bit in order to get the best overall effect. If at all possible, try to move the sofa up a bit.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20170307_190828.jpg (217.2 KB, 26 views)

HT Room: 18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains , SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.
ELite Screens Edge Free Aeon Series 100 inch Cinewhite Screen & Epson 5040UB Projector.
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post #40 of 42 Old 09-18-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by welldun View Post
;

1. Make sure that the avr is adding the distance from the upfiring speaker to the ceiling and not just a straight line distance as in what you would have with just your main speakers. For example if your main Left and right speakers measure a distance of 9 feet from the main listening position and and then you add the atmos modules, If the distance from the modules to the ceiling is 4 feet, then your AVR should be showing a distance of 13 feet or so for the atmos modules.
Do you have a reference for this? I'm honestly curious. My avr definitely has my upfiring Atmos speakers at the straight line distance from mlp. There's a separate adjustment for distance to ceiling. I had assumed the avr was doing the math itself on the distance. I guess it seems odd to me that you would have to calculate the reflecting distance to set it up properly. And I can't find any information that says one way or the other.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
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post #41 of 42 Old 09-19-2017, 10:42 AM
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WOW, thanks for this. As my AVR supports Atmos, I just purchaced the home I have been renting for the last 6 years, I now can move forward with mounting speakers in my "media room" and i am ready to setup my 7.1 setup (living on 5.1 for the longest time).

I was figuring I needed to just put smaller speakers in the top left and top right of the front of the room for Atmos, boy, I was wrong.

I guess a lot more reading is due... I have a whole Mirage setup M5-si and MCSI for fronts and M-290is for the rears, so finding a Atmos speakers for the front that will be tone matched might be hard, and I am sure not affordable... sigh...

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post #42 of 42 Old 09-19-2017, 12:59 PM
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Do you have a reference for this? I'm honestly curious. My avr definitely has my upfiring Atmos speakers at the straight line distance from mlp. There's a separate adjustment for distance to ceiling. I had assumed the avr was doing the math itself on the distance. I guess it seems odd to me that you would have to calculate the reflecting distance to set it up properly. And I can't find any information that says one way or the other.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
One of the goals when setting up your surround sound is to get the sound to be time aligned so that sound from every speaker reaches the main listening position at the same time. Your AVR depending on make and model, will have its own way of calculating this by using the calibration tones in its software. With Atmos modules the idea is for the sound to be bounced/reflected off of the ceiling in order for it to appear to be coming from above you. This requires that the modules typically be position slight above ear level and properly aimed at the ceiling. My Pioneer SC-99 requires that I also input the distance from the Atmos module/speaker to the ceiling and then computes the rest.

Prior to my SC-99 I had an Onkyo 838 which was retro fitted with Atmos via a firmware update. The Onkyo 838 however did not require the additional ceiling distance info. I reached out to Onkyo and received mixed info about how or if the AVR was calculating ceiling distance. One tech told me to manually add the distance after the calibration, and another one told me to leave the results "as is" after the calibration.

I say all of this just to point out that different manufacturers will have different ways of formulating the proper timing for the Atmos effects. In the end, I say use which ever method gives you the best real world results.

HT Room: 18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains , SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.
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