The Not So Subtle Distinction Between UHD and 4K - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 62 Old 08-20-2013, 03:00 PM
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To me UHD should be reserved only to 8K.

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post #32 of 62 Old 08-20-2013, 03:10 PM
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This is a losing battle. Why? Because the pros who buy 4K and the consumers who buy UHD live in separate worlds. Consumers will never encounter true 4K products and thus the term carries no confusion whatsoever for them. Whether it's labeled UHD or 4K, they don't care -- they simply know that it's the next thing beyond HD.
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post #33 of 62 Old 08-20-2013, 07:25 PM
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ATWindsor: "An 4K actually means something, it means 4000"<br><br>Well, actually, if you are talking k=kilometres, 4k =4000, but if you are talking k=kilobytes, k=1024, so 4k=4096
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post #34 of 62 Old 08-20-2013, 07:26 PM
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Whoa, a double post??? how the hell did I do that?
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post #35 of 62 Old 08-20-2013, 11:33 PM
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Madaudio: Kilo is defined as 1000, and has been for 100+ years (and is used as 1000 in hundreds of fields and hundreds of prefixes). Using a already defined word that means 1000 as 1024 in kilobytes was a mistake, a mistake which fortunately is in the process of being cleared up, as its more an more normal to use it the right way (as 1000) and you have kibi for when you need 1024.
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post #36 of 62 Old 08-21-2013, 04:05 AM
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Even more confusing for the average consumer is that since the advent of HD the different resolutions have always been referred to by the "height" number - 720p, 1080i, 1080P. Now with 4k, they are using the "width" number. Add that to the other differences in the formats, and I don't think this is going to be an easy transition.
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post #37 of 62 Old 08-21-2013, 04:38 AM
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"Ultra high definition television (also known as Ultra HD television or UHDTV) includes 4K UHD (2160p) and 8K UHD (4320p) "<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_definition_television" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_definition_television</a>
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post #38 of 62 Old 08-21-2013, 09:07 PM
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While I think the RED EPIC camera has pretty much guaranteed 4K is now 4096x2160, there are still other 4K standards. e.g.: 4K from the older RED ONE camera was 2304 scan lines,<br>DCI 4K - 1714 pixels high (native format on some Canon SLR cameras).<br><br>With so many of the displays stuck at UHD (QuadHD?), scaling or cropping will always be around, so we are stuck with the current mess. Arguing over "true 4K" is pretty pointless?<br><br>Hopefully 5K or 8K will just be one standard :-)

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post #39 of 62 Old 08-21-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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The resolution standard isn't what's important here. I am more interested in encoding standards. Who cares if the resolution is 4K, 8K, or 16K for that matter, if the encoding or capture method is garbage. My point in this article has little to do with the difference in resolution but rather the difference in encoding standards that we aren't going to get with the "UHD Blu-ray". 4K DCI has a method to get high bitrate JPEG2000, 12bit 4:4:4 video with a much wider color space with it's standardized interconnect. We won't be able to get anything close to that with HDMI 2.0. If the video will look noticeably worse than DCI 4K why call it something it isn't?

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post #40 of 62 Old 08-21-2013, 10:26 PM
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I'm so far away from having either 4K source material or a 4K display that this is all very much theory, but<br><br>yes, if they have to to go animated-GIF (i.e. 256 colour &lt;15fps) with RLE to get the recording or stream to us, or for us to be able to get it into our display over HDMI 1.X or 2.Y,<br><br>then the current "standards" are rubbish, and we need to publicise that.<br>Angrily!

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post #41 of 62 Old 08-23-2013, 03:38 PM
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If we are to nix 4K for consumer sets for Ultra HD or UHD, what should the 8K format be named another 5-9 years down the line, or sooner? 7680x4320 is what it would come out as. Ultra Quad HD?? "Ultra 4K" with now 4000 lines vertically?<br><br>I think the only way to get around the black bars issue is to just use a projector. I think there could be a market for four 1080 projectors arranged in a square to get 2160p. I think Microsoft has ambitions for whole home computing with projectors, so that could change the game even further down the line. What happens when your whole wall is an extra high resolution screen?
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post #42 of 62 Old 08-23-2013, 04:26 PM
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"2160p is a stupid name, just as 1080p was, the only thing constant with 1080p material is the width, the height varies, therefore the amount of pixels in the width is much more useful to state. "<br>Really ? I have yet to see a 1080p display or 1080p video camera that was not 1920 × 1080 progressive scan resolution. Show me a link to a 1080p HDTV or 1080p video camera that was not 1920x1080.
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post #43 of 62 Old 08-23-2013, 06:26 PM
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1080i is two fields of 1920x540 lines interlaced. I figure that's what was meant. But I disagree that 2160 is necessarily stupid since we've all gotten used to odd numbers like 1024, 720, 1080 and so on. It's no "4K" simplicity since to understand 2160 you'd need to understand it is the double of 1080.
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post #44 of 62 Old 08-23-2013, 06:31 PM
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1080p is 1920x1080 progressive scan resolution period.
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post #45 of 62 Old 08-23-2013, 06:32 PM
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"I am a little more upset by Sony printing "mastered in 4K" on their blu rays and displaying them next to their new "4K" tv's without making it clear that they are not 4K blu rays"<br><br>uhmm...you mean the consumers who can afford a $5,000 TV can't differentiate between "this movie is mastered in 4K" versus "this movie IS in 4K"? There is no misleading involved at all. If the person is that stupid to not know the difference then it's his/her fault! We can NOT and should not always cater to the lowest common denominator.

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post #46 of 62 Old 08-23-2013, 07:41 PM
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I hope 4K media players are smart enough to cope with media of all shapes and sizes.<br><br>The fact that Blu-ray players demand fixed size encodings is archaic.<br><br>We need to stop wasting resources and storage bandwidth encoding black bars<br>above below or to the sides of picture area.<br><br>That would give us a free quality bump at very little cost.<br><br>Steve
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post #47 of 62 Old 08-24-2013, 04:57 AM
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<b>"Televisions are of the following resolutions:<br>Standard-definition television (SDTV): 480i (NTSC standard uses an analog system of 486i split into two interlaced fields of 243 lines)<br>576i (PAL, 720 × 576 split into two interlaced fields of 288 lines)<br><br>Enhanced-definition television (EDTV): 480p (720 × 480 progressive scan)<br>576p (720 × 576 progressive scan)<br><br>High-definition television (HDTV): 720p (1280 × 720 progressive scan)<br>1080i (1920 × 1080 split into two interlaced fields of 540 lines)<br>1080p (1920 × 1080 progressive scan)<br><br>Ultra-high-definition television (UHDTV) 2160p (3840 × 2160 progressive scan)<br>4320p (7680 × 4320 progressive scan)<br>8640p (15360 × 8640 progressive scan)"<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution</a><br><br></b>
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post #48 of 62 Old 08-29-2013, 05:42 AM
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Misuse of a moniker is hardly anything new in marketing.<br>Calling a yet to be finalized UHD standard 4K (if UHD is the final naming convention) is not a big deal and certainly not anything to be "upset" about.<br>When has consumer electronics ever had the same capability as the professional / commercial grade equipment ?<br>Why would the movie studios have any interest in selling their native 4K format to the masses, when it would only further undermine movie ticket sales ?<br>Keeping in mind DVD sales still greatly exceed BD sales when there is an obvious quality difference between the two does not inspire confidence that a new high end consumer format would suddenly spur a surge of new program sales.<br>

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post #49 of 62 Old 09-22-2013, 12:07 AM
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The difference between 4x3 and 16x9 is something we're still dealing with. Old 4x3 TV on widescreens and HD programming fed to old TVs via 4x3 SD simulcast channels. Programs framing for full 16x9 messing up 4x3 viewing and HD programs still squeezing the graphics toward the middle so they don't get cut off on the tube.<br><br>The difference between UHD and 4K WRT what we've been through is, really, not worth worrying about. Zoom in 16x9 for 4K and you'll loose very little if anything if they still use safety framing. And letter-boxing on UHD/HD is something we're quite used to. It's like a person from Colorado complaining to an Alaskan about the cold winter.
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post #50 of 62 Old 09-22-2013, 05:38 AM
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4K = 4096 bytes
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post #51 of 62 Old 01-06-2014, 11:26 AM
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The display is a 4K display, it has the potential to display true 4K. The fact that the content hasn't caught up to it yet doesn't change the displays capabilities. Calm your tits.<br>
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post #52 of 62 Old 01-06-2014, 11:33 AM
 
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True 4K (via HDMI) cannot happen until HDMI 2.0 comes into existence. Maybe you should have stayed home and played with "your tits" instead of commenting.
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post #53 of 62 Old 01-06-2014, 12:07 PM
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cybrsage, what do you think the Sony 4k ultra hd media player is <a href="http://store.sony.com/WFS/SNYUS/en_US/-/USD/-zid27-FMPX1/cat-27-catid-All-Internet-Players?k_id=16a5d5cf-fa5a-f069-da7f-00005d9441a6&amp;kpid=8198552921666556068&amp;adpa ram=sem73pla&amp;XID=O:FMPX1:dg_gglsrch:pla&amp;ca gpspn=pla&amp;gclid=CNGStqys6rsCFTNp7AodLUsAmA" target="_blank">http://store.sony.com/WFS/SNYUS/en_US/-/USD/-zid27-FMPX1/cat-27-catid-All-Internet-Players?k_id=16a5d5cf-fa5a-f069-da7f-00005d9441a6&amp;kpid=8198552921666556068&amp;adpa ram=sem73pla&amp;XID=O:FMPX1:dg_gglsrch:pla&amp;ca gpspn=pla&amp;gclid=CNGStqys6rsCFTNp7AodLUsAmA</a><br>
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post #54 of 62 Old 01-06-2014, 12:09 PM
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cybrsage what do you think the sony 4k ultra hd media player is, it's out and it supports hdmi 2.0.<br>
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post #55 of 62 Old 01-06-2014, 12:15 PM
 
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Video Compression Resolution : 3840 x 2160/30p; 3840 x 2160/24p<br><br>HDMI 2.0 was not released until September, with the certification test kits not being available until January 2014. It might be able to be updated, via firmware, to HDMI 2.0 but it certainly is NOT it yet.
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post #56 of 62 Old 06-19-2014, 12:26 PM
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I think the whole thing is a non-issue.

There has always been a distinct difference between consumer and professional formats, be it Beta vs. Betacam, DVC vs. DVC Pro and now 4K vs. 4K Pro.

Heck even in the SD days, the home version ran considerably less than 480 lines compared to professional SD formats.

At least the tech this time seems to be settling on one version of consumer 4K instead of the potpourri of HD formats in the consumer world, such as 720p, 1080i and 1080p (often billed as "full HD").

I'm just not seeing the issue here. Consumers that don't understand it, won't care and those that care are going to know the difference and can make an informed decision based on that knowledge. I say, let the rabble have their "4K" and those who actually create the stuff can use a grown up "Pro" version. Heck, even if the just differentiated with "4K" and "4k" people who know this stuff would figure it out.

As far as people not knowing the difference between 4K and Mastered in 4K, those people can bite me. The "mastered in" terminology has been used since DVD when those titles were "mastered in HD". If people still don't get it, they deserve what they get. I'm tired of pandering to consumers that don't bother to find out what they're actually buying.

Buying a descriptive term is why it's becoming impossible to buy a real 4 wheel drive vehicle that isn't simply all wheel drive anymore. Of course, just like consumers who often don't display HD on their HD displays, most of those same people probably never take a 4WD anywhere further off road than a gravel driveway.

Just stick to one name and avoid confusing the lemmings with the whole 4K vs. UHD thing. If people are confused, they won't buy it. If people don't buy it, we get screwed when the studios don't put out content for it.

Last edited by NetworkTV; 06-19-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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post #57 of 62 Old 06-19-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATWindsor View Post
Using a already defined word that means 1000 as 1024 in kilobytes was a mistake, a mistake which fortunately is in the process of being cleared up, as its more an more normal to use it the right way (as 1000) and you have kibi for when you need 1024.
Yeah, because any of us are actually going to use the term "kibi"....ever.

You're eating at the geek table alone, my friend because even the other geeks don't give a damn. We know what it means and we know that we aren't getting that even number after formatting.

People were confused at first, but they understand it now just like they understand that a "pound" of coffee is really on 10-12oz now and a half gallon of ice cream is only 1.5 quarts. News flash: a 2x4 isn't really a 2x4, either. There's also no such thing as a 10th of a cent in pretty much any currency, so a gallon of gas will cost you $3.90, not $3.899. The sun also doesn't actually rise and set each day.

If you want to fight a fight, work on people who misuse "There", Their" and They're" along with "Break" and "Brake". Oh yeah...and someone needs to work on people who misuse "I couldn't care less" by saying "I could care less" or those say "meantime" instead of "In the meantime" when they really mean "Meanwhile"....
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post #58 of 62 Old 07-07-2014, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Yeah, because any of us are actually going to use the term "kibi"....ever.

You're eating at the geek table alone, my friend because even the other geeks don't give a damn. We know what it means and we know that we aren't getting that even number after formatting.

People were confused at first, but they understand it now just like they understand that a "pound" of coffee is really on 10-12oz now and a half gallon of ice cream is only 1.5 quarts. News flash: a 2x4 isn't really a 2x4, either. There's also no such thing as a 10th of a cent in pretty much any currency, so a gallon of gas will cost you $3.90, not $3.899. The sun also doesn't actually rise and set each day.

If you want to fight a fight, work on people who misuse "There", Their" and They're" along with "Break" and "Brake". Oh yeah...and someone needs to work on people who misuse "I couldn't care less" by saying "I could care less" or those say "meantime" instead of "In the meantime" when they really mean "Meanwhile"....
For all intensive purposes you're post really doesn't pass the mustard so I could care less
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post #59 of 62 Old 07-08-2014, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by big.d View Post
For all intensive purposes you're post really doesn't pass the mustard so I could care less
At my age, passing mustard is always an issue...corn passes too well...
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post #60 of 62 Old 07-13-2014, 06:50 PM
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I’m more concerned with the encoding side than how they market the resolution per se. Boy, HDMI sure is the gift that keeps on giving ain't it? I wish the industry would drive a stake thru HDMI’s dark heart and burn it to the ground. Let the conflagration be seen beyond the horizon.

I don’t say that willy nilly either because all of my equipment is HDMI equipped. But HDMI has been a crap standard from the beginning. Its physical connection spec is crap; and trying to distribute the signal across the home is a nightmare.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a...
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