New guy here with some thoughts and observations - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #1 of 36 Old 08-10-2014, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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New guy here with some thoughts and observations

Being new to this forum and this being my first post I have been reading various questions and answers all day long. Seeing some of the vehement disagreements and outright war of words amazes me. Is not the enjoyment of music subjective? What sounds good to one may not sound good to another, but is it wrong? What difference does it make if one person enjoys a $20,000 Krell system, while another enjoys the sound of $1000 worth of Yamaha components? To see someone say that a $69 Wal-Mart special Blu ray player sounds as good as the $1500 OPPO unit, and the person buying that is just an idiot wasting money and compensating for personal shortcomings leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Nobody and no amount of audio test equipment can measure what the persons perception of the sound is. I have read arguments about CD players, amplifiers, distortion and just about everything else today. Experts of all genres and self-proclaimed audiophiles arguing over everything under the sun. There is a lot of fantastic information here, great ideas, limitless knowledge and brains to pick, but hearing is subjective. Ten different people will hear ten different things and what may be pleasing to one is harsh to another. I love this site and I love the knowledge available but wading through the quarrels is tiresome. Instead of coming together sharing ideas and the love of audio pursuits, I see a several people in d@#K measuring contests.
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-11-2014, 02:39 PM
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As a lower end guy (cheap), I think it is kind of interesting to see what other people's "tastes" are...even if I could never imagine spending the big bucks....as long as they aren't insulting to the other forum member.

I made the mistake of calling my Yamaha R375 and Infinity bookshelf speakers a system only to be told it is not a "system", so lesson learned and I stay in my "lane" now....for the most part.
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post #3 of 36 Old 08-14-2014, 07:05 PM
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NADnut,pretty good post for a "Newbie".Steve, there are a lot of good people here. Don't be afraid of coming out of your "Lane". You have a system. When you have a opinion, express it.

Welcome to AVS, NADnut. Stick around. Lots to learn here.
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(LCD - Sony KDL -52 XBR4) (Receiver - Yamaha RX-A1040)(Blu Ray - Oppo BDP-83) (PS3)( Comcast X1) Speakers (L & R - Paradigm Studio 20) (Center -Paradigm CC-470) (Surrounds & Back Surrounds - Paradigm SA-15R in walls) (Subwoofer 1 - Sunfire HRS-12) (Subwoofer 2 - Paradigm PW-2100)
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post #4 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 07:43 AM
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Welcome to AVS, NADnut. Skytrooper is correct, there is a plethora of excellent info to be found here.
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post #5 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 11:04 AM
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Thought I'd also say hi here for an intro. Not a musician or operator of AV tools, but I would like to learn a bit about them. Thanks.
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post #6 of 36 Old 08-18-2014, 06:48 AM
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I think the only thing that's really bugging me right now is the incredibly distracting floating "Active Topics list" on the right hand side. Is there any way to make it static? I feel like I'm on a roller coaster.
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post #7 of 36 Old 08-18-2014, 09:21 AM
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Go into your User CP then to Settings, you can disable the sidebar from there & save your eyes. . .

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post #8 of 36 Old 08-18-2014, 01:45 PM
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Fantastic! Thank you.
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-18-2014, 02:02 PM
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Welcome to the Forum NADnut

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Originally Posted by NADnut View Post
... I love this site and I love the knowledge available but wading through the quarrels is tiresome. Instead of coming together sharing ideas and the love of audio pursuits, I see a several people in d@#K measuring contests.
I dunno...I try to keep it civil but keep in mind this is also a science forum and sometimes measurements matter regardless of ones subjective opinion...IMO, that's one of the things that keeps it from being a just a fanboy/sales site...

Otoh, there is an ignore feature and that may alleviate some of the posts you don't want to read. {Edit Note: I don't use that function because some of the most informed comments come from the most obnoxious members--Pun intended}
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post #10 of 36 Old 08-19-2014, 09:32 AM
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Great first post NADnut and welcome to the forums. That being said not everyone here start quarrels, in fact there are some great people on here. I know some of the arguments get heated and you have some that feel their opinions are the only ones that matters ect but it is what it is and you just have to overlook it. Again welcome aboard and enjoy everything these forums have to offer because you will learn a lot. I know I sure did!
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post #11 of 36 Old 08-20-2014, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. I love the knowledge and ideas here and really enjoy reading about other enthusiasts systems, thoughts and observations.
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post #12 of 36 Old 08-24-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
..I try to keep it civil but keep in mind this is also a science forum and sometimes measurements matter regardless of ones subjective opinion...
Yes. Subjectivity can't be the excuse to give just any old assertion a free pass. Not when it's possible to expose erroneous assumptions with analysis of pertinent data.

Not to belabor the point, but members are also quite capable of disagreeing about the relative importance of those objective measurements.

It would be nice if people behaved better, but it was ever thus.
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-29-2014, 06:59 PM
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I think the heated nature of some of the discussions simply speaks in part to the passion many of us here have for {insert your favorite passion here}. Hmm, that didn't sound right did it?

I've been reading, enjoying, and learning from these forums for years and only recently started to take the time to step up to the plate and participate more actively. There's dozens of folks here I've never so much as said hello to but feel that I know quite well. It's a great forum and community. And yeah any community will have its share of Debbie Downers and Negative Nancy's but for every one of those there's several more that just want to have good conversation or learn. Stick around and enjoy the good, filter out the bad.
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post #14 of 36 Old 09-29-2014, 11:45 AM
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Go into your User CP then to Settings, you can disable the sidebar from there & save your eyes. . .
sweet, thanks
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post #15 of 36 Old 11-10-2014, 10:00 AM
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Agree

I fully agree with this. When I was in my 20s/30s, I could much more easily hear the difference between gear. At that point in my life, it made a ton of sense to "buy better". I'm now approaching 50 and although I still have good hearing, it's not as good as it used to be. For ME, I can spend less and enjoy the same.


In hindsight, I wish I could've spent less and enjoyed more in the past. That would've been nice!


And yes, different people have different tastes even ignoring the physical abilities of their hearing.
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post #16 of 36 Old 11-18-2014, 11:27 AM
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Collegues;


I know what I like and my system reflects that. (Classical music ) . Others have different tastes in music, art and literature, and their systems will reflect that. All I ask is that we bear that in mind and be civil to one another. Also that the engineers attempt to make recordings to sound as true to nature as the state of the art permits. For me that is 10th row center at Benaroya Hall.
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post #17 of 36 Old 11-19-2014, 06:17 PM
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Welcome to the Forum NADnut



I dunno...I try to keep it civil but keep in mind this is also a science forum and sometimes measurements matter regardless of ones subjective opinion...IMO, that's one of the things that keeps it from being a just a fanboy/sales site...
I would like to respectfully disagree (to a point). Obviously there are definitives.......a $200 speaker is going to have a really hard time competing with a $10,000 one. But this field is mainly a sensory one; how does this sound or look to YOU? I think THAT is the biggest issue on here. I considering the same as another objective topic guys like to discuss, actresses. Too many guys come on here claiming XXX brand is the best, YYY brand sucks. That's like saying Cameron Diaz is the prettiest girl in Hollywood. YOU may feel that way, but I find her utterly unappealing, to the point of disgust. I find Scarlett Johannson INFINITELY more attractive. I think we would probably both agree that either of them ($10,000 speaker) is more attractive than chick from Melissa McCarthy (the $200 speaker).
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The TRUTH in your theater is determined by your EYES and EARS. Not how many specifications you can rattle off. Not in how much money your last piece of equipment cost. Not in your post count. The longer I'm here the better I understand why you all have to ask your wife for permission on what you're allowed to place in YOUR house.
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post #18 of 36 Old 11-19-2014, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffHurt View Post
I would like to respectfully disagree (to a point). Obviously there are definitives.......a $200 speaker is going to have a really hard time competing with a $10,000 one. But this field is mainly a sensory one; how does this sound or look to YOU? I think THAT is the biggest issue on here. I considering the same as another objective topic guys like to discuss, actresses. Too many guys come on here claiming XXX brand is the best, YYY brand sucks. That's like saying Cameron Diaz is the prettiest girl in Hollywood. YOU may feel that way, but I find her utterly unappealing, to the point of disgust. I find Scarlett Johannson INFINITELY more attractive. I think we would probably both agree that either of them ($10,000 speaker) is more attractive than chick from Melissa McCarthy (the $200 speaker).

Umm--I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. I agree that some folks get carried away with their brand recommendations as well as their view on speakers they don't like...That said, this is (started out) as the Audio Visual Science Forum and what makes it different (than other forums) is that there are a lot of informed discussion with folks who have a science background explaining their views along with numbers and was the point I was making.

Insofar as the hot chick analogy--Sorry you lost me but I agree anyone would be happy to have Scarlett Johannson hangin' with them, regardless if she had a science background. Heck, I'd even rather have her helping me pick electronics and speakers more than the most informed person posting in this Forum!
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post #19 of 36 Old 12-23-2014, 11:07 AM
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I think the heated nature of some of the discussions simply speaks in part to the passion many of us here have for {insert your favorite passion here}. Hmm, that didn't sound right did it?
Exactly what I thought (apart from the "insert your passion here"). The analogy could be made with wine drinkers. One could drink only 10$ wine stating it doesn't make a difference while you could have a trained sommelier explaining what he doesn't like about those bottles and why he only drinks those 50$+ bottles...
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post #20 of 36 Old 01-03-2015, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by NADnut View Post
Being new to this forum and this being my first post I have been reading various questions and answers all day long. Seeing some of the vehement disagreements and outright war of words amazes me. Is not the enjoyment of music subjective? What sounds good to one may not sound good to another, but is it wrong? What difference does it make if one person enjoys a $20,000 Krell system, while another enjoys the sound of $1000 worth of Yamaha components? To see someone say that a $69 Wal-Mart special Blu ray player sounds as good as the $1500 OPPO unit, and the person buying that is just an idiot wasting money and compensating for personal shortcomings leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Nobody and no amount of audio test equipment can measure what the persons perception of the sound is. I have read arguments about CD players, amplifiers, distortion and just about everything else today. Experts of all genres and self-proclaimed audiophiles arguing over everything under the sun. There is a lot of fantastic information here, great ideas, limitless knowledge and brains to pick, but hearing is subjective. Ten different people will hear ten different things and what may be pleasing to one is harsh to another. I love this site and I love the knowledge available but wading through the quarrels is tiresome. Instead of coming together sharing ideas and the love of audio pursuits, I see a several people in d@#K measuring contests.
As a long time lurker, I see the same thing at times. But it's the internet, and people will argue about anything. Some will do it until they die, some will be more open minded.

It would be interesting to see how many people wouldn't choose what they own if all they used was their own sensory inputs, with total "blind" testing of all components involved.

The monitors I have were purchased blind in a large audio room, and even I was shocked at the price/size level I purchased. This was back in the day when huge speakers were the norm, and the Polks I picked weren't so huge.

I'm sure I've now opened myself up to how Polk speakers suck. But the best part is.... I don't care!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
That said, this is (started out) as the Audio Visual Science Forum and what makes it different (than other forums) is that there are a lot of informed discussion with folks who have a science background explaining their views along with numbers and was the point I was making.
I do like the science angle, as there is enough tech nerd in me to be interested in how things work. But I think the primary science that drives many purchases is how the human mind works. I've also seen a lot of discussion that doesn't jive with reality, and I think this is the type of thing NADnut is speaking of.

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Insofar as the hot chick analogy--Sorry you lost me but I agree anyone would be happy to have Scarlett Johannson hangin' with them, regardless if she had a science background. Heck, I'd even rather have her helping me pick electronics and speakers more than the most informed person posting in this Forum!
Being the forum involves the science of visual imagery, both you and JeffHurt have sidestepped one very basic truth.

THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!
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post #21 of 36 Old 01-04-2015, 12:59 PM
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Hello and welcome:_
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post #22 of 36 Old 08-10-2015, 07:35 PM
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Hello and welcome:_
My 1st post: some interesting comments on this thread.

My experience has shown that every one of us have a different set of 'input sensors' let alone our abilities to interpret those audio-visual signals & detect, determine, or understand if they are poor, acceptable, or great. IMHO: signmaster has a good point. Besides, our eyes & ears ('input sensors') are more dynamic than one might think, usually they degrade more than one would want. Time & environment all have their tolls. Science helps but it's all about individual perception for any serious AV enthusiast, again IMO. We can talk about frequency response, cross-over & roll off, sensitivity, efficiency, standing-waves, nodes, contrast ratio, resolution, encoding/decoding algorithms, etc. and all the science & specifications that go into AV reproduction but the end result is our individual perception. Yes, it's my experience that better usually costs more but I'm not into a 'mine is bigger/better than yours' mind set.

I've been a lurker on AVS but now that my 'perfect' home theater is gone it's time to get with other enthusiasts (you) to help me with navigating the murky waters of compromise and the quest for perfection. What I bring to the table is over 45 years (EE-'72) of constantly moving the AV experience in my own living space to the level of 'Wow, your system really kicks a&$', the ultimate complement from my friends.

I'm a bit disappointed that there is no introduction thread here, or I'm embarrassed that I didn't find it… I hope I've registered on a forum that will be more informative than contentious. TWT
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post #23 of 36 Old 08-10-2015, 07:52 PM
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So far my experience here has been great. I have asked the most basic of questions, I am an audio novice, but not once was I chastised or made to feel stupid. All have taken thier time, to either explain it to me, or post links to where I could go read it myself. I have received a large bit of help here, my front speakers were purchased soley off of a few recommendations from members and I love them. The sub I recently purchased, same deal. I have learned a lot in the short time I have been here and enjoy it. Thanks again for all the education and help.
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post #24 of 36 Old 08-19-2015, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
As a lower end guy (cheap), I think it is kind of interesting to see what other people's "tastes" are...even if I could never imagine spending the big bucks....as long as they aren't insulting to the other forum member.

I made the mistake of calling my Yamaha R375 and Infinity bookshelf speakers a system only to be told it is not a "system", so lesson learned and I stay in my "lane" now....for the most part.

Don't let that get in the way.
Many here have system on the budget side and many like me with more elaborated system come here to help.
We all started somewhere, some like to move up the food chain and other buy once and are happy.
Take a look at how many new treads there is about super low budget asking for help.
Stick around and do not let a few or one snub steer you away from this hobby.


Post away


Ray
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post #25 of 36 Old 08-19-2015, 11:14 PM
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Don't let that get in the way.
Many here have system on the budget side and many like me with more elaborated system come here to help.
We all started somewhere, some like to move up the food chain and other buy once and are happy.
Take a look at how many new treads there is about super low budget asking for help.
Stick around and do let a few or one snub steer you away from this hobby.


Post away


Ray

I posted that a year ago and I still stay in my lane. Also, I do see the little guys asking questions and I also notice that many of the same "experts" offer negative responses or responses not supported by documented expert reviews.


While I am tempted from time to time to improve the projector, I am perfectly content with my 7.2 Yamaha AVR, Infinity speakers and Polk subs. Unless someone is asking about one of those products and the entry level Epson 1080p projectors or states a low budget, I never offer my opinion and when I do, be it positive or negative, it is the truth based on personal experience as well as research caused by a ton of free time at "work".


It bugs me when someone posts a modest budget and an expert is very negative about what they can get and/or tells them not to bother with it until they have more money. I know that they believe their advice, but I also know that I jumped into projectors from a 70 inch Sharp with a SVGA projector and 200 watt Logitech computer speakers. We loved it and rarely used the TV after the first projector, so I took an existing room, added a $349 projector and a $109 sound system. Setup time was about an hour.


While I did catch the upgrade fever (original speakers, AVR and projector), I still focused on the entry level verses the expensive and I like plug and play. Plug in the projector/AVR - find a setting that works, and enjoy. The best thing about my "system" is if something dies, it is an inexpensive fix by just replacing the component (projector, speaker, AVR, sub, etc.). Fry a $99 Infinity tower and in the garbage it goes.


So now I jump in to protect the little guy or to correct an expert who is stating facts based on personal opinion with no documentation. If I believed the experts, my Infinity speakers should have fried my AVR by now and my Epson lamp should have died several thousand hours ago and I should be bothered with the pixels on my 169 inch image which is by the way too big for my seating distance.


Once I even had on guy complain that I couldn't afford $60 dollars worth of paint to treat my room when in fact he had his projector in an unfinished basement with silver insulation walls. Talk about untreated and for the record, my basement is fully finished and I do have paint on the walls.


For now, I will keep posting when appropriate for my "lane".
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post #26 of 36 Old 08-21-2015, 02:01 AM
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Welcome, NADnut! As you have already noticed there are two main classes of people here: 1.) the people who only want to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and 2.) the people who make big profits by exploiting group 1's fears of inferiority, obsolescence etc.

Way down the list is a tiny group that has this crazy idea that it might be fun to watch the movie, or to listen to the music...

You get what you pay for.  For professional advice, pay the professional rate.
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post #27 of 36 Old 09-05-2015, 05:44 PM
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Welcome, NADnut! As you have already noticed there are two main classes of people here: 1.) the people who only want to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and 2.) the people who make big profits by exploiting group 1's fears of inferiority, obsolescence etc.

Way down the list is a tiny group that has this crazy idea that it might be fun to watch the movie, or to listen to the music...
Hear, hear. It's a constant battle between those who are wise enough to enjoy a good experience against those who must express themselves instead. I aspire to the former at the expense of falling into the latter all too often.
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post #28 of 36 Old 10-17-2015, 06:41 AM
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As a lower end guy (cheap), I think it is kind of interesting to see what other people's "tastes" are...even if I could never imagine spending the big bucks....as long as they aren't insulting to the other forum member.

I made the mistake of calling my Yamaha R375 and Infinity bookshelf speakers a system only to be told it is not a "system", so lesson learned and I stay in my "lane" now....for the most part.
Man, guess they will rip me a new one when they know I am assembling a 11.1 setup with acoustimass single cube speakers on my new marantz SR7009...
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post #29 of 36 Old 10-18-2015, 09:54 PM
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Can we really trust a newbie poster who likes NAD products? Even a deaf post could tell that even the Soundesign system from my childhood sounds better...

Just kidding! I am a newbie myself (and have an NAD Master Series amp right downstairs in my theater).

Welcome NADnut

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post #30 of 36 Old 10-18-2015, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Fortin View Post
Man, guess they will rip me a new one when they know I am assembling a 11.1 setup with acoustimass single cube speakers on my new marantz SR7009...

pix or it did not happen

Who needs 4K?... just go see your optometrist.
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