Monoprice.com code warning - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 44 Old 04-26-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by drcos View Post
Oh please, tell me how a tamper proof outlet would prevent a fire...
And inspectors have your safety first in their minds.
Sorry, just now saw this comment. I was referring to people saying that a permit is a waste of time and not needed. Not the outlet itself. Bad wiring and no permit could possibly mean denied claim. Its remote but could happen and your house inst the investment you want to take a chance with.

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post #32 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 01:39 PM
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just to add to this. I am now at the final inspection stage of my basement renovation and theater. We have home business liability insurance and were told by the insurance company that all modifications must be inspected and that they check. I thought it was hogwash only to get a letter indicating that they needed proof that the recent renovations were completed with full compliance. I called to find out A) how they knew I did basement renovations since we never told them, and B) what proof they wanted. Turned out they contact the village office once a year for folks with this particular insurance and it showed two open permits more than 6 months old (which is right, we have taken a long time to finish everything).

A lot of folks pushed me to do this without permits illegally noting it could have no issues. We had to, for the reasons I stated, and since then I've also learned the following:
-A house in the development across from ours caught fire in the garage. This was due to a garage heater installed by the owner. There was no permit. The Insurance company denied the claim and the house was abandoned by the home owners so the bank would forclose. Apparently they really do deny claims based on this.
-My contractor is doing a renovation on some bathrooms in a clients house and found a leak had caused both extensive mold growth and damage causing the ceiling to collapse below the bathrooms. The insurance inspector noted that earlier bathroom renovations done by a previous owner were done without permits and were deemed the cause of the damage. Claim denied. The home owner is suing right now but isn't expected to win (The contractor said he has seen this before and the client didn't win).
-A house in our subdivision was foreclosed on because the owner (who was under water) couldn't sell the house. Three sales fell through and the rumor is that he did extensive renovations without permits that aided in the homes current value. A bank or multiple banks would not issue a mortgage because there was no permit for these rennovations and they wanted it corrected and the price reduced accordingly. It is my understanding that the issue came to light from a bank requested inspection.
-When the head inspector came to my house we were chatting about some stuff and he mentioned that he was glad to see I did this with permits because they were currently investigating a number of homes in the area that they have become aware of as having built out basements with no permits. They have decided to go after these home owners and their contractors (if they had one) and the fines were very high. He mentioned that the board approved fines as high as $10,000 total. I thought he was just trying to scare me but then heard from a neighbor they got a letter and now need to have their basement inspected and are being asked to open up the wall in numerous locations.

I also failed the final electrical inspection because my outlets were not self grounding. Mind you, the back strap is tied to ground and the outlet does self ground when installed, but they don't officially say self grounding and they didn't have this little brass clip, so the inspector failed it. I had to go around and install pigtails on all the outlets and now have to wait 10 days before re-inspection. I hate inspections, but I'm still glad I did it.
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post #33 of 44 Old 04-28-2017, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytrooper View Post
Johnny2Bad, your comments are spot on. My son just sold his house. Did his own electrical work. Not very good work. It cost him 2000$ to have a electrian to correct his shortcuts.
I can't speak for your son's work, and you don't mention what he did wrong, but most DIYs can do electrical work sans "shortcuts" without worry. It's not rocket science and keeping it within code is not hard either.

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post #34 of 44 Old 04-29-2017, 06:00 AM
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I am not advocating major electrical work be done without inspections.
To me, adding an outlet for a TV is not major. But I've been working with electronics for a looong time, so...
Governmental inspectors...most of them are fine, and it's their name on the form. But we've run into the "HJ" mentality and how far above and beyond code is up to them.

I'll stop ripping my BDs when I can put them in and watch the movie without trailers, warnings, cutesy menus...
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post #35 of 44 Old 05-05-2017, 07:49 AM
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I just had to replace my hot water heater, it was done in one day. The permits are just getting started and the water heater has been in use for over a week! I know these guys are pros, and it was a simple replacement, but the time frame for permits to stop major damage is ridiculous. I was told, I and the installers have 6 months to finalize the permit, hell, a lot can happen in 6 months!

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post #36 of 44 Old 05-09-2017, 07:34 PM
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Code can be hell.


In Canada, for Electrical Code, it is pretty well country and sure some Province would apply too.
Not so sure about the States in the US.


When it come to this,, I only have a few recommendation for your house insurance!
-if you run a 20 amp circuit, make sure that you have the proper wall outlet!
-in-wall speakers wires/HDMI..., make sure it its rated for that.


Those are little things that overall cost is very small, but could deny a claim


Other than that, the code should be Black and White.


Ray
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post #37 of 44 Old 05-10-2017, 12:04 PM
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Thumbs up No permit required, just to swap the fixture

First, Monoprice.com is innocent, selling non-TR outlets is just fine.

For those just replacing an outlet, you need to check locally. Many areas are under Uniform Construction Code. If so that does not require a permit. But if you're a novice, the backstop of having a permit is a really good idea anyway.

§ 403.61. Residential buildings.
(c) A permit is not required for the exceptions listed in § 403.1(b) (relating to scope) and the following construction if the work does not violate a law or ordinance:
(ix) Replacement of glass in any window or door. The replacement glass shall comply with the minimum requirements of the International Residential Code.
(2) Minor electrical work for the following:
(ii) Replacement of a receptacle, switch or lighting fixture rated at 20 amps or less and operating at less than 150 volts to ground with a like or similar item. This does not include replacement of receptacles in locations where ground-fault circuit interrupter protection is required.

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post #38 of 44 Old 05-16-2017, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
gas cans with impossible valves and no venting to make them completely useless and cause gas to spill everywhere when used
Wait, is this what happened??? I thought I somehow became a supremely incompetent gas-pourer, despite having no problems many years ago.
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post #39 of 44 Old 05-16-2017, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
Wait, is this what happened??? I thought I somehow became a supremely incompetent gas-pourer, despite having no problems many years ago.

I have been involved in racing for years and this is what I use for ALL my fueling needs:

https://www.ruralking.com/5-gallon-p...QtYRoCpGnw_wcB

These are the BEST!!!!!

This being said (and very funny) is this is a quote from the page:

NOTE: Intended only for use as a rapid refueling device for racing vehicles used in professional off road and closed course competition racing events. It is NOT a portable fuel container as described by ASTM, EPA, ARB or other state or federal agencies. Intended for racing fuel only; not to be used for street legal fuels.

but....

they have these pics!!!





That must be a racing log splitter in a log spiltting competition!

Its a very 'wink, wink' sort of deal. They are also sold as 'waste oil containers' from other stores....but all they are all just vented fuel jugs that work.

~JH
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post #40 of 44 Old 05-26-2017, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
I have been involved in racing for years and this is what I use for ALL my fueling needs:

https://www.ruralking.com/5-gallon-p...QtYRoCpGnw_wcB

These are the BEST!!!!!

This being said (and very funny) is this is a quote from the page:

NOTE: Intended only for use as a rapid refueling device for racing vehicles used in professional off road and closed course competition racing events. It is NOT a portable fuel container as described by ASTM, EPA, ARB or other state or federal agencies. Intended for racing fuel only; not to be used for street legal fuels.

but....

they have these pics!!!





That must be a racing log splitter in a log spiltting competition!

Its a very 'wink, wink' sort of deal. They are also sold as 'waste oil containers' from other stores....but all they are all just vented fuel jugs that work.

~JH
I imagined this race as it were.
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post #41 of 44 Old 06-08-2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrandal View Post
...your inspector. Some feel they aren't doing their job unless they find a problem, and others don't really care unless you're running your own feed from the power lines in front of the house with exposed copper.
I did that, and the fellow told me he could accept it but only if I used "6 nines" copper, and put the wire up on those little stands so it wasn't contacting the ground. He then gave me the business card of his sister-in-law who is a feng shui consultant, so she could tell me how best to route said bare cable...
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post #42 of 44 Old 06-10-2017, 11:19 AM
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The ongoing issue is reinspection fees...they get paid for each reinspection.
We usually catch wind about it when they look at one outlet and say, "move it 2 inches to the right", you fix that, schedule a reinspection, and then they look at a second outlet and say "move it 2 inches to the left"....and why didn't they look at both on one inspection? hmmm, two reinspection fees...

Never happens in a town where you have a relationship with the code authority / inspector.

That's part of the advantage of hiring a local.
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post #43 of 44 Old 06-15-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
For what its worth, 'tamper proof' outlets suck. Its almost impossible to get a plug in them. When I was a kid we were told not to stick anything in outlets because it would shock us. If we did....we learned a lesson and didnt do it again....but we all survived.

The next thing the government will likely do is destroy gas cans with impossible valves and no venting to make them completely useless and cause gas to spill everywhere when used.



~JH

I completely agree on the gas cans. They're awful and typically cause me to spill gas when trying to refuel my lawnmower or trimmer.

Tamper proof sockets are hit or miss depending on the blade of the plug you are putting into the socket. I haven't quite determined what does it (shape, width, angle, etc) but we use the tamper proof sockets in our kitchen and certain appliances plug in just as easily as a regular socket, while others you feel the need to get out the hammer to get past the tamper proofing.
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post #44 of 44 Old 06-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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Code requires (406.11) that 120V 15/20A outlets in all areas defined in NEC 210.52 must be tamper-resistant, and that existing grandfathered outlets are only grandfathered until replaced; any replacement must be TR (we are on 2011 NEC). Exceptions are:

1) Outlets more than 5.5' off the ground (think about the TV's above the fireplace).
2) Outlets designed to be used by a major appliance which normally blocks access to the receptacle (mostly in the kitchen; fridge/stove/oven/dishwasher)
3) Outlets built in to light fixtures or Lumiere (and so replacing them would involve replacing the entire light fixture which may be expensive or impossible)

I do hope Monoprice adds a comment about building codes as a warning. But I still don't see them at fault. I agree that inspections can be a pain (i'm getting ready for final this week).

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