Berkline (Ciar) Controller Appears to Overheat/Shutdown Without Use - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-24-2011, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I have Berkline couch with dual power recliners. The controller is a Ciar type SU15-01/2xM1.

If I leave the couch plugged in for extended periods it will not work when I go to use it (no sounds, nothing). This can happen even during the course of an evening. If I unplug it for a while and try later it works.

If plugged in and even without use the controller is really warm to the touch.

One thing I see that I missed as there is spot in the controller or two 9 volt batteries but I have never put batteries in it. Could this be related?

I inspected the internals and nothing appears really wrong (no obviously blown parts).

Any ideas?
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post #2 of 24 Old 09-24-2011, 07:57 AM
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You don't need the batteries for the Power Supply to operate correctly. They can be used to get the chair down in case of a power outage. It sounds like you need a new Power Supply.

Ken Lerch
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-24-2011, 01:33 PM
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Any ideas where you can buy a Ciar power supply for a Berkline recliner? I am specifically looking for the Ciar SU15-01/M1, which sounded close to what the original poster was asking about.

I have 3 dead power supplies due to a basement flood...and now 3 useless recliners!

Berkline is out of business and Ciar is in Italy and doesn't look very helpful. The retailer tried to locate parts but came up short.

What about comparable power supplies that I could use? I am willing to open up a power supply and do some soldering or connector swapping, but my existing power supplies are rusted beyond repair.

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

-Jeff-
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post #4 of 24 Old 09-24-2011, 01:48 PM
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Can you post pictures of you Power Control Boxes?

Roman
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post #5 of 24 Old 09-24-2011, 05:20 PM
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Here you go - is that what you were looking for?

-Jeff-
LL
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post #6 of 24 Old 09-25-2011, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for information...

Mine looks generally the same but has two power and two button connectors (model SU15-01/2xM1).

Ciar's Web site has a SU15 model listed but it looks nothing like what we have:

http://www.ciar.it/prodotti.asp?sez=...a_id=3&co_id=5

Looks like it might work though.
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post #7 of 24 Old 09-25-2011, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Should I expect the transformer in this controller to always be putting out 30 or so volts even when actuators are not in use? I am seeing that behavior with mine.

Yes, testing this is a potentially a dangerous operation that people shouldn't attempt unless they know what they are doing. I am not asking someone to test but would like to get an understanding of expected behavior if someone knows.

Of course I am not ruling out ordering a replacement but just trying to see if this could be something I could fix on my own.
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post #8 of 24 Old 09-26-2011, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron3421 View Post

Should I expect the transformer in this controller to always be putting out 30 or so volts even when actuators are not in use? I am seeing that behavior with mine.

This request can be ignored as I expect the volt meter would be a load.

If someone can measure the voltage of an actuated output that would be helpful.
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post #9 of 24 Old 10-02-2011, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron3421 View Post

This request can be ignored as I expect the volt meter would be a load.

If someone can measure the voltage of an actuated output that would be helpful.

I replaced the internal transformer in the controller with 24v battery power (2x12v batteries in series). No more issues with things coming to a halt so it looks like problem is with the transformer.

I might find a replacement or just leave things battery powered.

For the next person...I don't know what correct voltage is on actuator but my controller put out 30v and around 2 amps peak when a single actuator was in motion.
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-04-2011, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like transformer in this unit is a Sacchetti Type C 5 BR D Date 44/10

Specs on transformer indicate 24 Vac secondary. My unit was putting out 30Vac. This appears to be what was causing my "overheat" issue even when couch was not used.

For now I am going to continue to run off 24v battery power.

If anyone runs across a replacement transformer that fits in the case please post.
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-08-2011, 05:54 PM
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I also am having the same problem. Just crapped out on me about 3 days ago. Dual recliners, so obviously dual actuators. I've also tried searching online for a replacement, but have had no success. I also saw the version on the CIAR site, and as a previous poster mentioned, it looks nothing like the one in the sofa. Mine, also does not have the spor for the 9v batts, though the sticker on the SU states it has "batt: 2x9V" so im assuming they are the same. When you say you're using 12v's in series, (forgive me for sounding dumb) are you using car batt's?!? That seems extremely inconvenient. I ask this before i have looked into more manageable sized 12v batt's.
Any help anyone could provide would be great. I'm not electrical retarded...lol...just need a kick to get on the right path.
Thanks guys...

-seated...but NOT reclined...
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post #12 of 24 Old 10-09-2011, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrd129 View Post

I also am having the same problem. Just crapped out on me about 3 days ago. Dual recliners, so obviously dual actuators. I've also tried searching online for a replacement, but have had no success. I also saw the version on the CIAR site, and as a previous poster mentioned, it looks nothing like the one in the sofa. Mine, also does not have the spor for the 9v batts, though the sticker on the SU states it has "batt: 2x9V" so im assuming they are the same.

If you don't remove the control from the couch it may be hard to see the battery compartment. Anyway, use of batteries was not documented with my couch and using them does not provide power to return the couch to upright position when power goes out. So, I suspect it is not implemented for this controller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrd129 View Post

When you say you're using 12v's in series, (forgive me for sounding dumb) are you using car batt's?!? That seems extremely inconvenient. I ask this before i have looked into more manageable sized 12v batt's.

I am using 2 batteries used in wheelchairs. However, they are pretty big. I had these handy and in the room they are in not an aesthetic issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrd129 View Post

Any help anyone could provide would be great. I'm not electrical retarded...lol...just need a kick to get on the right path.
Thanks guys...

-seated...but NOT reclined...

It is not clear from your description what may be wrong with the controller so I can't say for sure what you need to do.

If it is transformer, than you can replace the transformer. The transformer takes the 110v from your wall and brings it down to 24v (AC). There is ciruitry on the contoller board that changes this from AC to DC to power the relays selenoids.

In addition to those two options, maybe you could use an appropriately sized "wall wart" to power the controller. You probably need at least 2amps and 24volts.

Of course, none of these are trivial to do and all involve working with high voltages so therefore could be dangerous.

In the end another controller could be used I am sure (even if it does not look the same). I am a little surprised one of yhe companies that provide repair services has not stepped up yet to provide a known working replacement.
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post #13 of 24 Old 10-09-2011, 09:57 AM
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awesome...thanks so much for your response..
I also dont know EXACTLY what the issue is, i'm just deducing this transformer issue since neither recliner work, the heat issue radiating from the unit, and that theres no noises or anything. The one side of the recliner is practically never used, so i find it odd that they would both crap out unless it was an electrical problem.
You seemingly know a lot more about the draw of these devices, so i ask your opinion, I found small (meter batt sized) 12 v batt's.....would these be feasable to use, or would they work for one time, and then be dead. Ive seen energizer brand, and a set from radio shack. just dont know if i'd be replacing them every 2 days..LOL...
I was initially waiting to hear back from the store i bought the furniture from to see if they can provide a repair person, but they are prob not going to do anything, since Berkline is out of business now. So im guessing no furniture repair place would be able to assist. Hence why im about to take the task on for myself.
Thanks again!
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post #14 of 24 Old 10-09-2011, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted a picture here if you want to see what you are getting involved in:

http://sites.google.com/site/publics...ere/couch-hack

How many amp hours are those batteries you are looking at? Over the last week or so my couch has used about 0.14 Ah.
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post #15 of 24 Old 10-25-2011, 07:16 AM
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Jeff,

I also had a flood on Sept 8th and one of my 4 chairs also is dead. My Ciar supply is very close in a match to yours. It is marked SU15/M1 and looks like the one on the CIAR web site. If you find a replacement, please post it here and i will do the same for you. I may contact the company and see who their US supplier or factory rep might be

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmorse View Post

Any ideas where you can buy a Ciar power supply for a Berkline recliner? I am specifically looking for the Ciar SU15-01/M1, which sounded close to what the original poster was asking about.

I have 3 dead power supplies due to a basement flood...and now 3 useless recliners!

Berkline is out of business and Ciar is in Italy and doesn't look very helpful. The retailer tried to locate parts but came up short.

What about comparable power supplies that I could use? I am willing to open up a power supply and do some soldering or connector swapping, but my existing power supplies are rusted beyond repair.

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

-Jeff-

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post #16 of 24 Old 11-01-2011, 11:26 AM
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I also have had problems with the power seat. At first I thought it was the switch but after using a switch from a functional chair, it appears as if the problem is something called the Power Control Box. Has anyone ever seen one of these and if so, know where I can find one? It is made by Refined Mechanic Hi-Tech Co., LTD.
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-01-2011, 11:31 AM
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cmarder,

Can you post a picture of it?

Roman
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-31-2012, 12:43 PM
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Just wanted to see if anyone had any luck finding a place to buy the Ciar SU15/M1 pewer supply? I have one, it went bad, now no reclining. I replace the unit from one of the working chairs so I know it is this unit that went bad. My online searching has not been successful.


Thanks
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-31-2012, 02:06 PM
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BimmerBoy,

The power supply made by Refined (I have these) should be compatible with CIAR. the only difference would be in how it is mounted. You would need to figure out that part. Other then that it should work just fine. It has the same sockets for the switch and actuator wires plugs.

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post #20 of 24 Old 06-04-2012, 07:39 AM
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Hi all, I am the CIAR representative for the UK. I am working with JM Upholstery to deal with the type of issues you mention, i.e. where the manufacture is unable to provide end user support. Please contact Jeff Mascall jeff@jmupholstery.com Thanks, Tim PS please feel free to contact me at anytime.
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post #21 of 24 Old 06-04-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoy View Post

Just wanted to see if anyone had any luck finding a place to buy the Ciar SU15/M1 pewer supply? I have one, it went bad, now no reclining. I replace the unit from one of the working chairs so I know it is this unit that went bad. My online searching has not been successful.


Thanks

My thanks to everyone in this forum! I was able to buy a factory replacement last November directly from them. Cost was $61 including shipping. My contact was:

Monica Tysinger
Ultra-Mek, INC.
Accounts Payable/ Customer Service Repairs
487 Bombay Rd
P.O. Box 518
Denton Nc 27239
336-859-4552

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post #22 of 24 Old 07-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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I too have a dual power reclining sofa that uses TiMotion componets, but sadly lacks a power supply/controller. The CIAR SU15 is available from LiftChairsRUs, and they have both the single and dual option. They also have parts for switches and replacement actuators and blocks. The actuators accept 24 volts and up to 5 Amps, but the dual power supply/controller outputs less than 0.5 Amp from what I can tell. The SIngle box outputs up to 4.3 Amps at 24 volts, and I might just buy 2 of them instead due to the fact that many of you have heating issues.

Another option is the Okin/Refined JDLP (single power supply/ Controller), which is available at medicalsupplycenter. I have not purchased either on but though I'd put them here as options.
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post #23 of 24 Old 10-30-2012, 08:47 AM
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Just to reinforce Spouses' post, I too contacted Ultra-Mek to get new power supplies.

They carry the original Ciar power supplies, although they have the new square form factor, so you may need to do some mods to get it to fit in your recliner. But the connectors are the same, and they work perfectly.

The supplies were $50 each, plus shipping (About $11 total for 3 supplies). Compare that to the $145 each that is being charged at Liftchairsrus.com!

I spoke with Jennifer (Monica is no longer there).

Good luck.


Jennifer
Ultra-Mek, INC.
487 Bombay Rd
P.O. Box 518
Denton, NC 27239
(336) 859-4552
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post #24 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 07:45 AM
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Ran into this same issue with 3 Natuzzi Editions power recliners - 2 in a sectional and 1 standalone.  If you follow the power cord, you'll find a box that is just a power supply.  If you disassemble the box, you'll find a marginal transformer and a rectifier circuit with a condenser to decrease ripple.  The recliner had not been used all night when I took it apart but was still very warm to the touch.  

The power supply claims to be rated at 24vdc @ 2 amps.  Due to no regulation, it was providing 36vdc.  

 

l looked on eBay and found a 24 volt / 4 amp power supply for $25.  This was a laptop "brick"  power supply.  I used the connector from the OEM supply box and connected the new supply.  I ran it up and down for about 10 minutes with no issues and no overheating from the brick.  Now that I know it solves the problem, I go back to eBay to buy 2 more - they are all gone.

 

So, for less than $20, I buy a 24v/6 amp supply.  I mounted it in one of the sectional recliners using the OEM bracket.  I then fed both recliners in the sectional from that power supply using the connectors out of the OEM power supplies. Used about 20 feet of 14 gauge stranded copper wire to go from the power supply at one end to the recliner on the other end.  Works like a charm even if both recliners are in motion at the same time.

 

So, total, I have upgraded 3 power supplies much better than OEM for less that $45.  No more getting stuck in the recliner!

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