Russian Rocket Fails To Put Dish Network Satellite In Proper Orbit -AFP - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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MOSCOW (AFP)--A Russian Proton-M rocket blasted off Saturday from Kazakhstan's Baikonur cosmodrome carrying a US communications satellite, but failed to put the satellite in its intended orbit, Russian space officials said.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...8_FORTUNE5.htm
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 04:48 AM
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IIRC, this is one of E*'s birds that was headed to 61.5W. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

IIRC, this is one of E*'s birds that was headed to 61.5W. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080312/aqw506.html?.v=2
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 06:39 AM
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As my nephew would say "OH SNAP!". I was praying that when I looked in here it wasn't D11. I feel for all you E* subs and hope it all works out. Lets hope the Navy doesn't decide it needs more target practice.

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post #5 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 06:56 AM
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That sucks to hear.

Of course, maybe E* will leave it there and it will transmit NESN and Yes exclusively on a very low orbit....


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post #6 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 06:57 AM
 
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Yikes! Well maybe since the shuttle is up there they can stop by and bring it to it's proper orbit!
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalpatton78 View Post

As my nephew would say "OH SNAP!". I was praying that when I looked in here it wasn't D11. I feel for all you E* subs and hope it all works out. Lets hope the Navy doesn't decide it needs more target practice.

Nah, they got a hit on their last try. Message sent.
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Nah, they got a hit on their last try. Message sent.

Maybe Russia or China would like a shot at it. I don't think the Russians could hit it but I bet China sure could! At DBS dish forums the talk seems to be it could still reach orbit possibly by using its on board thrusters but it could take a long long long time to get it there. So the company who ownes the sat may de-orbit it and take a insurance check.

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 07:11 AM
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It was the second burn (of 3) that ended 2 minutes and 13 seconds early that was to put the satellite into a geosynchronous transfer orbit. Even if there is enough fuel on the satellite to get to the proper orbit, or getting fancy & using lunar gravity maneuvers which has been done, it would likely take months to get the satellite where it should be. See
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/proton/amc14/ for details.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 07:16 AM
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Title revised.
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

It was the second burn (of 3) that ended 2 minutes and 13 seconds early that was to put the satellite into a geosynchronous transfer orbit. Even if there is enough fuel on the satellite to get to the proper orbit, or getting fancy & using lunar gravity maneuvers which has been done, it would likely take months to get the satellite where it should be. See
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/proton/amc14/ for details.

Not to mention that using that much fuel would all but shorten it's lifespan in space to almost nothing.

Either way, the satellite is now space garbage.


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post #12 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Nah, they got a hit on their last try. Message sent.

I didn't read or see anyone covering that aspect of it, only the *cough* official one *cough*. At least some of us use our brain even if the media refuses to.
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

Yikes! Well maybe since the shuttle is up there they can stop by and bring it to it's proper orbit!

The shuttle is a whole lot closer to here than it is to there.

Shuttle orbit is about 300 miles max and the satellite needs to be about 23,000 miles up.
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 04:59 PM
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When I saw this thread I thought of Pavel Bure
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 06:00 PM
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This is what happens when you offshore most everything, less than spectacular results (see call centers, and IT projects as prime examples) to try and save money...
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-15-2008, 08:23 PM
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Sea Launch experienced a catastrophic failure last year (delaying a D* sat launch). While the launch was literally "off shore", they aren't an offshore company.
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-16-2008, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Knicks_Fan View Post

This is what happens when you offshore most everything, less than spectacular results (see call centers, and IT projects as prime examples) to try and save money...

You're mistaken.

You're confusing the old days of NASA where spending billions a year to launch anything into space was the only way to do it. However, the future of space is in the private sector where competition and quanity of vehicle production will make the price more reasonable.

In addition, you seem to be forgetting that NASA has had more than their fair share of accidents over the decades. It's not easy to launch something into space. In an era where movies and TV shows project space travel as commonplace, we often forget how much can go wrong on a routine mission.

There's a reason they refer to "rocket science" as something involving smart people. It takes a lot of them to get it right - and sometimes even they don't succeed.

The fact is, space travel is now comparable to the drug industry. A company like Pfizer researches and makes a pill that costs them millions. A decade later, a generic company comes along and copies it for pennies and it works just as well. The same goes for NASA and those private companies. NASA has done all the research - the other guys can work from what they learned.

This isn't like call centers where skilled techs are replaced with people reading cards. Many of those working at these private companies came from government space programs around the world. The people that work with them studied for years to learn "rocket science". These people aren't just reading off cue cards and throwing metal into space.

I would submit that eventually private space programs will make them safer. Why? Because as soon as anyone wants to do anything that affects private citizens, the goverment will mandate a level of safety and require oversight. This doesn't happen with NASA who can just say it "was a failure of (insert complicated technical term) that could not have been foreseen". Someday, space travel will be as safe and common as airplane travel because private companies took it on.


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post #18 of 24 Old 03-16-2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by William View Post

The shuttle is a whole lot closer to here than it is to there.

Shuttle orbit is about 300 miles max and the satellite needs to be about 23,000 miles up.


So is it then your contention that the astronauts can't just drive over to this bird, put it in the boot and truck it up to it's proper orbit?
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 08:08 AM
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Update
While the launch did not look promising it appears that engineers will be able to successfully move AMC14 into its proper orbit. According to SES Americom's president, Edward Horowitz, he is confident that they can get the satellite there.
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by AKA View Post

Update
While the launch did not look promising it appears that engineers will be able to successfully move AMC14 into its proper orbit. According to SES Americom's president, Edward Horowitz, he is confident that they can get the satellite there.


....but probably shorten its lifespan in the process.

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post #21 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 09:35 AM
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So is it then your contention that the astronauts can't just drive over to this bird, put it in the boot and truck it up to it's proper orbit?

That is correct. STS is not geo-sync capable. Orion will be.
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dcowboy7 View Post

....but probably shorten its lifespan in the process.

But its lifespan might be long enough to get another one up there to replace it, which is what they'll have to do anyway.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by stephenC View Post

That is correct. STS is not geo-sync capable. Orion will be.

You do understand that the question was tounge-in-cheek, right?

Orion/Ares is a cool concept. The whole BDB vs. SSTO debate enthralls me. We should have done this by 1980.

I do have a question...what happened to Ares 2, 3 and 4?
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dm145 View Post

When I saw this thread I thought of Pavel Bure

The other day I went into my local tennis pro shop to have my racquet restrung. At the counter, there was this attractive young blond girl with a guy paying for a whole bunch of tennis equipment. I noticed that the staff there were all "a-twitter" like someone famous was there. I assumed the girl was some up and coming Russian tennis player. After the couple left, I asked the owner if the girl was famous. His answer: "No, but that was Pavel Bure paying for his girlfriends stuff!"
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