'24' - Season 7 on FOX HD - Page 54 - AVS Forum
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post #1591 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 01:43 PM
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I still think Tony is good and is merely staying under cover to fulfill his and Bill Buchanan's ultimate plot busting goal. Sadly though regardless if I am right or wrong I believe this is Tony's swan song on 24...maybe Carlos is looking to move on career wise. I will miss Tony's character as much as Michelle and Bill Buchanan.

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post #1592 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post

I still think Tony is good and is merely staying under cover to fulfill his and Bill Buchanan's ultimate plot busting goal. Sadly though regardless if I am right or wrong I believe this is Tony's swan song on 24...maybe Carlos is looking to move on career wise. I will miss Tony's character as much as Michelle and Bill Buchanan.

I agree, as I posted earlier, however the notion of good has been warped within this whole torture perception thing they've been wrestling with for the entire season.

Now, at the end of the episode, they hit us in the face with-- stereotyping is bad, regarding Muslims, See! They're not all terrorists! It was like they ran out of those nauseating "go green" PSAs and went with a product placement PSA.

I'm still loving this season but I can see what they mean when they mentioned last year that there were many rewrites. Seems like there was one too many.

Larry

I thought we were cool de la?
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post #1593 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph View Post

I'm still having difficulty identifying Tony's true motive and the underlying reason for the change in his character. Is he supposed to be what could have become of Jack, if Jack weren't such a strong, vigilant person?

He bumped his head, forgot he was a double agent, and is now behaving under the belief that he IS the bad guy! (circa 1984 Miami Vice episode where Sonny goes rogue while on an undercover mission)

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post #1594 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Rein View Post

I have a problem with Tony ripping off the shower curtain and choking the guy to death.

Then, a few minutes later, it's shower time for Almeda.

A nice pan across the bathroom shows the dead guy, draped with the shower curtain over him, and Tony taking a shower with the curtain on.



It was an AXE bodywash product placement, didn't you notice?! Even bad boys need to get clean!

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post #1595 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 02:16 PM
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Does that mean you'll stop watching? Please say yes.

Yes, I have had enough. I am glad you enjoy it so much though. THis series has run its course, time to move on.
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post #1596 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 02:54 PM
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Tony's a bad guy, no doubt. Murdered several in cold blood. Jack teetering on the edge of death too many times. Only good moment in that ep was Janine getting hollered at - SO many would have loved to do the same thing. Loved how a set of cold dead servers could be brought online from being in storage somewhere in less than 15 minutes. These guys are good!
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post #1597 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bphisig View Post

Maybe I'm trying to apply too much logic to 24 (which can always be dangerous) but I can't figure out why Tony foiled Jonas's biological missles, and blew up the lab, only to steal one canister for the people Jonas was already aligned with. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I'm still trying to figure out why (if this getting the toxin was his main goal) Tony didn't just kill everyone at the dock and take the entire cargo container full of nerve agent then.

If it was so important he could have just called for backup from "The Conspiracy" when he found out where the canisters where being kept. Killed everyone on site and drove off with it.

Or at least just stole one from the truck instead of letting Jack drive away first.

If Jack hadn't been poisoned he would have been on the chopper heading to Starkwood instead of Tony. That would have screwed up the plan completely since Jack wouldn't have let anyone get away.


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post #1598 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 03:21 PM
 
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^24 is NOT about logic...it's a fruitless exercise to try to explain away the inanity.
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post #1599 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 04:33 PM
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Yes, I have had enough. I am glad you enjoy it so much though. THis series has run its course, time to move on.

bye!
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post #1600 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 05:02 PM
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The more I think about it, the more I don't know what is motivating Tony. The Jonas character has practically beaten us over the head explaining his reason for his actions, but Tony remains an enigma, especially considering his committment to Bill and Chloe.

If Tony is still a good guy (and that's a huge if), then the only resolution I see possible for his character, given his heinous acts, is to kill himself once he has fulfilled his good guy mission to prevent the plot still underway. That is one heck of a reach on my part.
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post #1601 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph View Post

If Tony is still a good guy (and that's a huge if), then the only resolution I see possible for his character, given his heinous acts, is to kill himself once he has fulfilled his good guy mission to prevent the plot still underway. That is one heck of a reach on my part.

The only way the Tony angle could redeem itself to me is if he swallows the entire canister then runs into a meeting of The Conspiracy and blows it in all their faces.

Then he disintegrates.


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post #1602 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 05:23 PM
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I'm having a hard time reading the Tony character. Last week I resigned myself to the fact he was bad to the bone. This week, I'm not so sure. There is a SMALL possibility that he is still playing the undercover card. He may be the ONLY one who can work his way up to "exposing" the "committee" of terrorists. He may feel that the sacrifice of hundreds or even thousands of innocent people in order to infiltrate the committee and stop their "ultimate" goal is rational and justifiable. There was a clue in the last episode when the head of the committee asked via secure messaging if Tony could be trusted. They would not have inserted that clue into the show if there still wasn't a possibility of Tony being undercover and actually working to ultimately stop the committee.

However . . . The ruthless, cold, dismissive and unconscionable manner in which Tony plots and kills is bone chilling and disturbing. Much worse than anything Jack has ever done.

But, if he DOES turn out to be actually "good", it would make the show appear rather ridiculous with all of the swings back and forth between the good and bad Tony.
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post #1603 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 05:31 PM
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Well, I got the sense (after scene with this mysterious quorum) that the idea of good guys and bad guys is entirely relative depending on how you think your beloved country must be served and to what ends. If one is to observe their country getting flushed down the drain in some context and they had the means to save the country from certain doom, the means to implement that program may look pretty invasive (treasonous, perhaps, of the nature of insurrective?) to another party who feels the status quo is perfectly adequate for the country at this time. It's all relative, and the only absolute is the service to the country's future (whatever your personal idea is for that).

Who really has the right answer?...beats me! It's really just another variation on the argument of what is the difference between "freedom fighter/patriot" and "rebel/radicalist" in the eyes of different people.

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post #1604 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

Well, I got the sense (after scene with this mysterious quorum) that the idea of good guys and bad guys is entirely relative depending on how you think your beloved country must be served and to what ends.

I think the answer is pretty obvious on 24. The good guys are the ones who don't shoot people in the face.

Or paralyze them and stab their son's fiancee to death while you watch.

Or throw them over balconies.

Or suffocate them when they are injured.

Not much gray in those areas.


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post #1605 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 06:42 PM
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Certainly, those are abhorrent acts. However, if they are perpetrated upon "enemy combatants" of one degree or other (or just collateral damage to incidental parties), we enter a big area known as "gray".

I'm not trying to exhonerate these acts, either. I find them distastful just as all of you. I'm just premising that this could be the message they are reaching for (for better or worse).

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post #1606 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

THis is rapidly becoming the WORST written and thought out show on TV. And that is really saying a lot.

Bye!

No one who suffered through Day 6 could possibly say that about this season.

As far as Tony and why they took out Jonas' missiles, it's because Jonas was making the attack and the threat all about Starkwood; the conspiracy guys are in it as a consortium that will come in and offer to "protect America because it's obvious the Government can't."

Their actions to make the Muslim guy the fall guy for their attack must thrill the 9/11 "truther" crowd.

I've also got to say I was completely expecting (and never got) a reveal that one of the "group" we saw last night would have been a familiar face from the past; it's actually very nice they didn't go that route.
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post #1607 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 08:37 PM
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Edgar's evil twin brother (complete with goatee)?

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post #1608 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 08:46 PM
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No way Tony's not a "bad guy." Shooting federal agents in cold blood wouldn't have been necessary as Jack has shown in the past. However, 24 has always seemed to make a point of how some people can have a skewed sense of what needs to be done in order to achieve the final goal. Dubaku (sp?) caused the death of the people in the planes, but in his mind he was doing what needed to be done for his country. Right wrong or indifferent, that's the perception presented. Jonas felt that casualties were acceptable if it resulted in the country taking a more aggressive approach to security. Hell, even the prez's daughter (who I absolutely hate, both in character and attitude) may wind up screwing up the deal with Jonas. All season the focus has been on who is to say what level of violence is acceptable - torture, murder, mass murder.

There is no way in Hell, that an administration has a brat like the prez's daughter being the sole advisor to the POTUS. The entire time she was arguing with Mom about making a deal with Jonas, I'm thinking "Umm, she took an oath swearing the health and welfare of this country would be her primary goal over everything else - including revenge for a murdered son." Geez, I guess the Joint Chiefs were too busy reaming the guy who questioned a direct order from the CIC. "Uh, ma'am are you sure you want me to abort the fighter strike?" Sorry for the rant, but it bothers me to see the writers resort to plot devices that rely on incompetence at the executive level.

T.

BTW, it just seems to me that they're setting up something with JG. I don't know what it is but every scene with her just makes me think she's about to do or reveal something that'll be devastating. We'll see..
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post #1609 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

Certainly, those are abhorrent acts. However, if they are perpetrated upon "enemy combatants" of one degree or other (or just collateral damage to incidental parties), we enter a big area known as "gray".

I'm not trying to exhonerate these acts, either. I find them distastful just as all of you. I'm just premising that this could be the message they are reaching for (for better or worse).

Reaching would indeed be the key word there.

Sorry to say, but they have completely lost me for the rest of this season with the crap they have pulled with Tony. It's ruined the season for me, and I won't be watching the remaining episodes.

Until next season.....
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post #1610 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Sorry to say, but they have completely lost me for the rest of this season with the crap they have pulled with Tony. It's ruined the season for me, and I won't be watching the remaining episodes.

See ya!
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post #1611 of 2020 Old 04-28-2009, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Reaching would indeed be the key word there.

Sorry to say, but they have completely lost me for the rest of this season with the crap they have pulled with Tony. It's ruined the season for me, and I won't be watching the remaining episodes.

Until next season.....

Bye !
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post #1612 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 02:46 AM
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Glad to see more people coming around to Tony being a good guy' - have faith.

It all goes against what we are seeing because of his recent actions, but I still expect to see the twist before this ends. Tony has killed far more of them' than he has of us.' The number of us' will be far less than the number killed if he can't help stop this. The end justifies the means.
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post #1613 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 03:39 AM
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Just got around to watching this. Loved it. I loved seeing Jack in action again. His rant at the analyst lady was priceless. She probably wet her pants.

I wonder how they will resolve this whole Jack being sick line. Maybe his daughter contributed the stem cells anyway. The FBI agent did say she wanted to talk to her before she left.

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post #1614 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 04:46 AM
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Were past Presidents ever guilty of nepotism?
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post #1615 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 06:50 AM
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How about Jack Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy (AG).
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post #1616 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 06:56 AM
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The President's daughter is an outsider brought in for an interim Chief of Staff. The Pres needed someone and needed someone immediately, and couldn't trust any other higher-ups in her government thanks to the ongoing conspiracy.

Given her apparent background running campaigns, it's apparently an entirely reasonable choice.
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post #1617 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 07:00 AM
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The President's daughter is an outsider brought in for an interim Chief of Staff. The Pres needed someone and needed someone immediately, and couldn't trust any other higher-ups in her government thanks to the ongoing conspiracy.

Given her apparent background running campaigns, it's apparently an entirely reasonable choice.

I hope her mother slaps her around before the season ends she is such a bitch
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post #1618 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 07:02 AM
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I hope her mother slaps her around before the season ends she is such a bitch

I want to see her go to jail.
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post #1619 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 07:08 AM
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Starkwood Does Olivia would do for starters.
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post #1620 of 2020 Old 04-29-2009, 07:33 AM
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Starkwood Does Olivia would do for starters.

She would probably like that so that is no punishment.
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