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post #181 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RDK006 View Post

Yeah, Mama P sure did get around when she was younger, huh? And here I always thought she was such a sour puss...

The father could still be the same as Peter's. Maybe they gave him up for adoption for some reason (a vision, or something). Who knows.

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post #182 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post

You are, of course, assuming that Tracy is another lame personality of Nikki/Jessica/Gina.

It could be that they decided to actually let Nikki/Jessica/Gina die in that explosion, and this is a long lost twin sister (or clone) that has a different power, but no lame multiple personality disorder. Linderman says that Tracy is not Niki. The tone and context led me to believe that he meant it's not Nikki/Jessica/Gina.

Just pointing out that so far we don't know if it's Nikki/Jessica/Gina/Tracy, or something else.

The wife and I were thinking along the same lines for the new character. This is from the NBC Official Wiki concerning Niki:

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Niki grew up with a wealthy, though abusive, alcoholic father named Hal Sanders. Hal would often beat Niki and her sister, Jessica, during his drunken rages. Eventually, Hal choked Jessica to death and left his remaining daughter. As an adult, Niki had no memory of her father's actions and simply believed he ran out on her.

Which clarifies that Jessica was, in fact, at one time a real person in the Heroes world. What if she actually never died and instead ran away after her father 'thought' he had killed her (Hal chokes her, leaves out of fear so he never really knew what happened). She later went on to become Tracy. Of course, the Nikki/Jessica/Gina we've seen in S1 & S2 were just Niki with multiple personalities. This one is the actual Jessica who has no memory of her life as Jessica, only as Tracy. She's way to imbedded into the Governor's staff to have just gotten the job. She's been Tracy since she was a little girl, since she ran away from home after waking up from being choked.

The only thing odd is that, if they're identical twins, shouldn't they have the same power, or perhaps it manifests itself differently even with identical genetic material.

John
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post #183 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus Carr View Post

Nice of Sylar to put Claire's scalp back on.

Well, assuming Mamma Petrelli isn't lying, it would be the kind of thing a considerate uncle would do for his niece after cutting it off, poking around in her brain, and cloning her power.
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post #184 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jrfuda View Post

She's way to imbedded into the Governor's staff to have just gotten the job.

This was my main problem with her being Nikki/Jessica...well at least the Nikki/Jessica that we already know.
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post #185 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrfuda View Post

The wife and I were thinking along the same lines for the new character. This is from the NBC Official Wiki concerning Niki:



Which clarifies that Jessica was, in fact, at one time a real person in the Heroes world. What if she actually never died and instead ran away after her father 'thought' he had killed her (Hal chokes her, leaves out of fear so he never really knew what happened). She later went on to become Tracy. Of course, the Nikki/Jessica/Gina we've seen in S1 & S2 were just Niki with multiple personalities. This one is the actual Jessica who has no memory of her life as Jessica, only as Tracy. She's way to imbedded into the Governor's staff to have just gotten the job. She's been Tracy since she was a little girl, since she ran away from home after waking up from being choked.

The only thing odd is that, if they're identical twins, shouldn't they have the same power, or perhaps it manifests itself differently even with identical genetic material.

I already assumed that Tracy was the 'real/original' Jessica we were all led to believe was dead.

As for the power - Identical Twins have 1 difference - fingerprints.

Didn't Mohinder make it clear during the episode that power development should be as unique as a fingerprint?
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post #186 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Berk32 View Post

Didn't Mohinder make it clear during the episode that power development should be as unique as a fingerprint?

Ahh, very good point and likely strategically placed by the writers just for this purpose!

John
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post #187 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 01:33 PM
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+1 for being a mess. man, it was one of the shows i was most looking forward to this season. hopefully it gets better.
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post #188 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 01:41 PM
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One of the escaping Level-5 Villains has a power very similar to what I think we saw Peter manifest in one of the "future timeline" episodes in previous seasons. I'm referring to the guy with the blue-flame that was using it on the poor soul(s) at the gas station.
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post #189 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 01:43 PM
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And, speaking of powers, one can assume that Ando got the (red plasma energy) power he demonstrated in the future that Hiro visited from the serum that Mohinder has developed. Unless they're going to figure out a way to just have him manifest a power on his own somehow.
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post #190 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by IrmoGamecoq View Post

And, speaking of powers, one can assume that Ando got the (red plasma energy) power he demonstrated in the future that Hiro visited from the serum that Mohinder has developed. Unless they're going to figure out a way to just have him manifest a power on his own somehow.

Well they do seem determined to give some kind of power to every single character on the show...
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post #191 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrmoGamecoq View Post

And, speaking of powers, one can assume that Ando got the (red plasma energy) power he demonstrated in the future that Hiro visited from the serum that Mohinder has developed. Unless they're going to figure out a way to just have him manifest a power on his own somehow.

I don't think that was Ando. I think it was Peter using an illusion power and trying to convince Hiro to hand over whatever he was carrying. Hiro could also become a villain of sorts, with a different agenda to Peter.


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post #192 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrfuda View Post

The wife and I were thinking along the same lines for the new character. This is from the NBC Official Wiki concerning Niki:



Which clarifies that Jessica was, in fact, at one time a real person in the Heroes world. What if she actually never died and instead ran away after her father 'thought' he had killed her (Hal chokes her, leaves out of fear so he never really knew what happened). She later went on to become Tracy. Of course, the Nikki/Jessica/Gina we've seen in S1 & S2 were just Niki with multiple personalities. This one is the actual Jessica who has no memory of her life as Jessica, only as Tracy. She's way to imbedded into the Governor's staff to have just gotten the job. She's been Tracy since she was a little girl, since she ran away from home after waking up from being choked.

The only thing odd is that, if they're identical twins, shouldn't they have the same power, or perhaps it manifests itself differently even with identical genetic material.

This makes sense to me, especially when you consider the unpopularity of Nikki/Jessica/Gina as a character [and the producers admitted issues with the character], but you cannot deny the eye candy that she is.

To kill off the character, but to keep the actress as a different character (who may be the original Jessica, or someone else), makes perfect sense. Get rid of the problem character, but keep the actress.
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post #193 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 03:20 PM
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I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but where the hell is Peter's body?

Looking back on it, although it was better than anything from season 2, the premiere really was a mess. Then again, Heroes has never been known for quality writing.
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post #194 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by moob View Post

I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but where the hell is Peter's body?

Looking back on it, although it was better than anything from season 2, the premiere really was a mess. Then again, Heroes has never been known for quality writing.

I was wondering that too, plus, it would seem to indicate that we're not going to have Weevil as a character for too long.
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post #195 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by moob View Post

I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but where the hell is Peter's body?

No idea. I was struggling with that plot point. I was thinking it was another example of Future Pete using the illusion power again to convince everyone that Present Pete looked like Weevil but that doesn't hold up. Future Pete would have to be master of controlling powers at super long distance while he was doing other stuff.


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post #196 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 04:32 PM
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Speaking of which...no one there found it weird that Weevil would start claiming to be Peter out of nowhere?
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post #197 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

I did think it was funny how they totally dismissed the plot of season one..."save the cheerleader, save the world" ...ummmm, Sylar said he couldn't kill her, so it should have been, "hey, don't let Sylar get the cheerleader's power--don't worry, he can't kill her or anything, but I just don't want him to have her power to heal...mmmmmkay?" would've made a great t-shirt.


Even if Sylar would have received her powers, what difference would that have made regarding saving the world?
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post #198 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

The first time it was the nuclear explosion. Claire was central to that plot. They didn't want Sylar to be able to survice a nuclear explosion they thought he created.

Peter saved his brother. He has powers of thousands of people (especially since he came from the future and was around thousands of people with abilities). He probably got one from them or he absorbed Linderman's power at one time in his life since Linderman visited his parents regularly and Linderman's power was revealed last season to be the ability to heal anything he touches, including bringing something back from the dead.

Whether or not Sylar would survive the nuclear explosion had no imparct on saving the world. And why did't Sylar die when he was stabbed with the sword in the final epsiode of season 1?
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post #199 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

Hilarious. And it was good to see Suresh not be a wuss for a change. Though he kinda went "Lana Lang" with his new powers.





Yeah, there were a few well-lit scenes that were pretty dark looking and they weren't night scenes. BTW, Claire can be killed; we've seen it happen (unless her abilities have somehow mutated to full immortality status). Sylar doesn't know this....perhaps that'll be his undoing.

How have we seen it happen? Thanks.
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post #200 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjinglesusa View Post

That would be my guess. The fact that she can no longer feel pain is evidence that her power is changing. And Sylar, after examining her brain, said that she was "special" and that he couldn't kill her even if he wanted to.

On the flip side however, in the future scene at Level 5, Claire appears to have been decapitated and her body moved so that it was not near her head. Perhaps this is a way to kill her?

I think that was just a dream by Peter's mother.
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post #201 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleAl View Post

I thought that was just a theory of Future Hiro's that wasn't necessarily correct.

Peter's brother was brought back to life by Linderman, who has come back as a ghost, apparently. Linderman had the power to bring dead things back to life.

Come back as a ghost....hmmm. This show makes the return of Bobby in Dallas seem quaint by comparsion.
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post #202 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 08:16 PM
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I will keep watching this show because, well, I dunno, but I have a bad feeling that Heroes is quickly going to join the likes of Prison Break, Twin Peaks, etc, as shows that had decent first seasons and should've just ended.

The problem is there is absolutely no tension anymore. Nobody really dies - they are either just mostly dead and then come back to life - or they come back in different forms, or somebody time travels to change things, etc.

There are just so many writing/plot inconsistencies that it is really starting to tick me off.
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post #203 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 09:01 PM
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Prison Break is still great!
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post #204 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by igreg View Post

How have we seen it happen? Thanks.

In S1, Claire got revenge on a jock who tried to rape her. Long story short, ended up with a stake at the back of her head, and was declared dead in the morgue. This resulted in the great and gory living autopsy scene. However, once she got the stake out, her healing properties kicked back in fairly quickly. Somewhat similar deal with the glass shards that Sylar sent into Peter.
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Originally Posted by igreg View Post

I think that was just a dream by Peter's mother.

As both Peter and his mother apparently share the gift of prophecy, I wouldn't
write off her 'dreams' that summarily.

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Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post

The problem is there is absolutely no tension anymore. Nobody really dies - they are either just mostly dead and then come back to life - or they come back in different forms, or somebody time travels to change things, etc.

There are just so many writing/plot inconsistencies that it is really starting to tick me off.

This is actually one of my greatest concerns for this series, and I agree with you completely. Initially I was very pleased that they had listened to our complaints and reverted back to the darker and more mature original format. Unfortunately, what Peter giveth, Paul takes away, and they took the Uber-Powerful Peter gimmick and rather than reigning it in, they have expanded it. So that as a group, the Heroes are now essentially omnipotent. And once they're virtually omnipotent, any basis for dramatic tension is nullified for all practical purposes.

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post #205 of 2358 Old 09-24-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by igreg View Post

Whether or not Sylar would survive the nuclear explosion had no imparct on saving the world.

"Saving the cheerleader" came from future Hiro. He had traced the key causal steps to whatever mess his post-apocalyptic future was. Stopping Sylar from receiving her power at that time was the first point he had to stop. That changed his future right then and that thread of time was over. Although the writers seemed to misunderstand their own trope and dragged it out until Nathan saved New York himself. Basically invalidating the "save the cheerleader" portion.

I think some people here think the world is now safe and we can all go home. Hardly makes for a season 2 or later, eh? At any rate, saving Claire then doesn't invalidate her power, it doesn't invalidate the future as Hiro knew it, and it doesn't invalidate Sylar's finally acquiring it in S3. (just invalidates all the rest of S1 )

As of now, after S3E2, nobody in the show knows the future at all, not even the guy from there. All old time threads have been snapped. Most likely....the world is in trouble in a new way.

And the show is in trouble too. At this rate, 100% of humanity will have some mutant power by the end of S4. Then what? Geez, get over the new powers already and have a plot about something. (this started back in the short S2 when they dumped Peter in Ireland and started showing new people for no apparent reason)

My suggestion: Sylar is smart enough, and powerful enough, to be a Kingpin type of top bad guy. No bodyguards necessary, punishment for minions' failures dealt by Sylar himself. They've spent enough time with him as a weapon, the watch repairman who learns just by looking at brains is a thinker. Big, deviant plans for taking over the world, possibly in politics (he can afford it, now) since that seems to be a favorite topic of the writers. That's what I'd like to see. He can take over a couple of the new (sorry, meant old) villians along the way.
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post #206 of 2358 Old 09-25-2008, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky View Post

"Saving the cheerleader" came from future Hiro. He had traced the key causal steps to whatever mess his post-apocalyptic future was. Stopping Sylar from receiving her power at that time was the first point he had to stop. That changed his future right then and that thread of time was over. Although the writers seemed to misunderstand their own trope and dragged it out until Nathan saved New York himself. Basically invalidating the "save the cheerleader" portion.

I think some people here think the world is now safe and we can all go home. Hardly makes for a season 2 or later, eh? At any rate, saving Claire then doesn't invalidate her power, it doesn't invalidate the future as Hiro knew it, and it doesn't invalidate Sylar's finally acquiring it in S3. (just invalidates all the rest of S1 )

As of now, after S3E2, nobody in the show knows the future at all, not even the guy from there. All old time threads have been snapped. Most likely....the world is in trouble in a new way.

And the show is in trouble too. At this rate, 100% of humanity will have some mutant power by the end of S4. Then what? Geez, get over the new powers already and have a plot about something. (this started back in the short S2 when they dumped Peter in Ireland and started showing new people for no apparent reason)

My suggestion: Sylar is smart enough, and powerful enough, to be a Kingpin type of top bad guy. No bodyguards necessary, punishment for minions' failures dealt by Sylar himself. They've spent enough time with him as a weapon, the watch repairman who learns just by looking at brains is a thinker. Big, deviant plans for taking over the world, possibly in politics (he can afford it, now) since that seems to be a favorite topic of the writers. That's what I'd like to see. He can take over a couple of the new (sorry, meant old) villians along the way.

Wasn't it Nathan who saved the world by flying Peter into space so he wouldn't detonate on Earth? (Even though Peter can fly?) When you think about all the threads that have occurred on this show, are they all somehow connected by the writers from day one (or do they just decide what to write next), or even all connected?
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post #207 of 2358 Old 09-25-2008, 03:27 AM
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I think we are dealing with yet another problem with the "Butterfly Effect".

If you believe the premise, timelines are fluid. At the point Claire was saved from Sylar, the future took a different path and the world was "saved". However, other events transpire and the timeline shifts again. It means now you have to stop Sylar to save the world...whoops, no you have to stop Peter to save the world....now you have to stop Sylar who has obtained Claire's power in order to save the world...now you....and so on.

That's why you can't think too much about how time travel works, whether it is "Future Hiro" or "Future Peter". Each time an event changes in our time, there has to be the butterfly effect in their timeline. Yet, what makes them the anchor that remembers both timelines? I know that premise was done rather effectively in the movie Frequency where the John Sullivan character would remember both timelines when his dad in the past would change something.

If that is what the writers are going for, I can actually buy that.....except that they have never offered that as an explicit explanation of how the process works in their world view. For me, I just accept it, using the Frequency model and move on.

However, as has been mentioned numerous times, Time Travel plotlines are inherently messy and hard to keep in logical order since the entire concept is an impossible one.
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post #208 of 2358 Old 09-25-2008, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

I know that premise was done rather effectively in the movie Frequency where the John Sullivan character would remember both timelines when his dad in the past would change something.

If that is what the writers are going for, I can actually buy that.....except that they have never offered that as an explicit explanation of how the process works in their world view. For me, I just accept it, using the Frequency model and move on.

I think that by keeping the premise/theory vague, that's exactly what they are counting on: Viewers inserting their own working concept for how it works.

It's a little cheap, but at least they don't open themselves up to criticism about their time-travel premise.
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post #209 of 2358 Old 09-25-2008, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

I don't think that was Ando. I think it was Peter using an illusion power and trying to convince Hiro to hand over whatever he was carrying. Hiro could also become a villain of sorts, with a different agenda to Peter.

That's another possibility, the only sticking point being that Ando demonstrated a power which we haven't seen Peter use as yet. Obviously, he could acquire it later though.
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post #210 of 2358 Old 09-25-2008, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post

I think that was just a dream by Peter's mother.

She's shown that her "power" is the ability to dream the future. Peter picked up the same power from her initially.
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