ESPN MNF "giving the screen back to the viewer" - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 178 Old 09-18-2008, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantar View Post

I don't care what the focus group results are. I don't see CBS getting any complaints with their graphics for the NFL. And they don't eat up a major portion of the screen.

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Originally Posted by ABCTV99 View Post

CBS gets all kinds of complaints about the SportsLine and Fantasy Football tickers. Just peruse a few NFL on CBS threads.

On the other hand, I haven't seen any press releases from CBS claiming to be "giving the screen back to the viewer".
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post #152 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 07:23 PM
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Im sorry but theres no defending this graphic.

This is not sunday afternoon or sunday night. We have no need for constant score updates , game breaks , and Fantasy updates. There is a singular game going on the pertinent info will take up space regardless. Why a decision was made to just cut off more , and leave that bar there the whole time is indefensible.



It's a terrible choice , its wasted space , it serves no purpose. Everything outside the score bar should be transparent period.
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post #153 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 07:51 PM
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Just lip service.

This year's blackout of the bottom of the screen is horrendous.

BTW: I measure 16% of the picture eliminated, not 10%.

Just ask them a simple question. Does the information you're providing at any given time important enough to override 16% of your presentation? If they truly feel it is that important, they are clueless about sports - they've become out of touch.
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post #154 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Just lip service.

This year's blackout of the bottom of the screen is horrendous.

BTW: I measure 16% of the picture eliminated, not 10%.

Just ask them a simple question. Does the information you're providing at any given time important enough to override 16% of your presentation? If they truly feel it is that important, they are clueless about sports - they've become out of touch.

I agree. Blackout is a good term for this. Covering up 1/6 of the screen for no apparent reason shows very poor judgment.
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post #155 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 08:10 PM
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Nothing down there? I see a lot of stats being put up...
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post #156 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakes View Post

I agree. Blackout is a good term for this. Covering up 1/6 of the screen for no apparent reason shows very poor judgment.

I agree completely. They can have the scorebar but they should have it clear beneath. I see no reason to black out the bottom.
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post #157 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by owine View Post

Nothing down there? I see a lot of stats being put up...

The stats are fine. But they're blocking out a huge portion of the screen that they do NOTHING with.
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post #158 of 178 Old 09-22-2008, 10:07 PM
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ESPN, and any visual company or organization, needs to begin with a sound design philosophy. Not having a unified philosophy -- or having conflicting ones -- results in the hodge-podge kind of output we see now from ESPN.

If ESPN were to adopt a visual philosophy which stated, for example, "On-screen score and status graphics will display only key information plus network brandiing and color scheme, and will obscure a minimum of screen area to do so."

To me, Comcast SportsNet (Philadelphia and Chicago only, I believe) have the most economical on-screen graphic designs. White text on black bubbles, only large enough to accomodate the logo and the information itself, placed to the farthest top and right of their defined safe zone.

ESPN talked about going 16:9 native/4:3 letterbox on College Football broadcasts, but backed out. The only program of theirs which airs in this manner is the World Series of Poker, where they use slightly larger graphics to accomodate their smaller display on 4:3 screens. I sure the "HD community" would be up in arms if ESPN went 16:9 only to make their graphics (or at least their typefaces) larger...
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post #159 of 178 Old 09-23-2008, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_the View Post

ESPN, and any visual company or organization, needs to begin with a sound design philosophy. Not having a unified philosophy -- or having conflicting ones -- results in the hodge-podge kind of output we see now from ESPN.

The core problem is that their design philosophy is oriented toward the channel surfer than those actively watching the product.

It's the equivalent of being a faithful subscriber to a magazine and suffering through a dozen subscription cards shoved into the mag. Except in this case, ESPN would glue those cards to random pages throughout.
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post #160 of 178 Old 09-23-2008, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

The stats are fine. But they're blocking out a huge portion of the screen that they do NOTHING with.

Agreed, this is a horrendous waste of screen space. The clean score box from last year is replaced by, what? A big bar of NOTHING.

Add that to the constant and neurotic widening/shrinking score bar for down and distance and you'd have to think someone had WAY too much of something dreaming this up.
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post #161 of 178 Old 09-23-2008, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

The core problem is that their design philosophy is oriented toward the channel surfer than those actively watching the product.

It would be one thing if ESPN had only one channel, but they have 69 where the neurotic junkie can go to get their fix on all the information he or she needs.
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post #162 of 178 Old 09-23-2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Just lip service.

This year's blackout of the bottom of the screen is horrendous.

BTW: I measure 16% of the picture eliminated, not 10%.

Just ask them a simple question. Does the information you're providing at any given time important enough to override 16% of your presentation? If they truly feel it is that important, they are clueless about sports - they've become out of touch.

By my calculations it still sucks. Just not as bad as it does for college football.

Next year we can count on ESPN putting black bars on the edge of the 4:3 area.

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
8/9 PM ET
TUESDAY!
NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!


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post #163 of 178 Old 09-23-2008, 08:47 AM
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ESPN at a minimum has to nuke the red/black background down below, the whole gyrating graphics presentation is as unwatchable as the Jets' performance yesterday and TK.
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post #164 of 178 Old 09-23-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCTV99 View Post

My point with the populist approach is that I'm not sure the mainstream cares enough (or even notice enough) the graphics package to really dissuade them from viewing, and this often gets mistaken as license to do anything the production folks. I would imagine though they get far more complaints about Tony K.

I think you are right in this assessment of things. Do you know if when ESPN uses focus groups, what options are presented? I am wondering if a minimalist approach is ever one of the options offered or if they are all graphics overload of one kind or another. I just can't imagine people would pick graphics overload over a minimalist approach, except for gambling junkies or fantasy football freaks, which I am guessing are a minority of the total audience. I would like to see ESPN have a poll on their website about what layout viewers would like to see or better yet, do an entire game with a minimalist approach and see how many complaints you get from viewers about it.
The current MNF look reminds me of taxes, it is good that a lot of the ridiculous things you mention are not in MNF (non-football guests, dancing robots, huge sound swooshes during wipes) but the score bar is so huge it's like viewers are paying a tax to get rid of the other things and the man always gets you one way or another. I am aware of safe area concerns but this goes way too far.
Being in the know, do you think there is any way to get back to minimalism or see it even given a fair shot? My idea of a perfect presentation would be a small time/score/down/distance bar no larger than half the size of the current MNF bar but keeping all the good innovations that have come along, like the first down line. One final complaint, watching in HD I don't recall ever seeing anything on the 16:9 areas of the score bar but the bar stayed there nevertheless. I think you should at least get rid of the 16:9 areas of it that don't ever have any information.
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post #165 of 178 Old 09-14-2009, 05:25 PM
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the fugly bar is gone!!!!!! yes!!!!!!!!
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post #166 of 178 Old 09-14-2009, 05:58 PM
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Love the new MNF scoreboard/graphics package. Less is more.
You guys that are in the TV business, please pass along my thanks to ABC/ESPN.
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post #167 of 178 Old 09-14-2009, 09:49 PM
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What took them so freaking long!
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post #168 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 05:49 AM
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Yay!!! Bout damn time. I think the new booth crew is great too, Gruden has lots of useful insight and works well with the other two. The man knows the game, even if he is just a rent-a-coach this year.

MNF is BACK.
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post #169 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 05:54 AM
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I thought the bar was a little large for what info it has, but thankfully overall it takes up less space than any other channel's bars and none of that garbage shading under it. I really hope the other channels learn that less IS more.
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post #170 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 06:24 AM
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Definitely a move in the right direction while CBS is moving in the wrong direction. However, if they're going to have that massive color coded on-field down and distance arrow, they may as well eliminate the down & distance section of the score bar and shorten it. That's necessary info, but nothing is so necessary that it needs to be displayed in two locations on the screen.
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post #171 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 06:43 AM
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I really wish they'd get back to something like this. This score bug was simple and elegant. An updated version would be great...


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post #172 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Yay!!! Bout damn time. I think the new booth crew is great too, Gruden has lots of useful insight and works well with the other two. The man knows the game, even if he is just a rent-a-coach this year.

MNF is BACK.

Agreed. I have hated MNF since it arrived at ESPN, but last night changed my mind. The score bar is, dare I say, tasteful. Still not as small as I would like, but given what we've seen before, it's beautiful.

And Jon Gruden does commentary like he's been doing it for 15 years. He manages come off natural, enthusiastic, and knowledgable, and that's more than I can say for 90% of the other announcers out there. He made Jaws look downright silly a couple times. By the end of the game, I was convinced that Tirico and Gruden could two-man the season and no one would even notice Jaws was gone. If Gruden makes a career of calling games, he could easily be the next John Madden (pre-senility).

Great steps in the right direction last night.
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post #173 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 07:33 AM
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Definitely an improvement. I also agree about showing the down and distance twice. I would personally like to see all the networks get rid of the down and distance indicator superimposed on the field.
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post #174 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machpost View Post

I really wish they'd get back to something like this. This score bug was simple and elegant. An updated version would be great...



Agreed, Fox Sports does something like this on their HD College Coverage...it's very refreshing...

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post #175 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRM4 View Post

Definitely an improvement. I also agree about showing the down and distance twice. I would personally like to see all the networks get rid of the down and distance indicator superimposed on the field.

Hear Hear. Isn't it great when they run through it and disappear?

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
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NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!


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post #176 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

Hear Hear. Isn't it great when they run through it and disappear?

I liked the down and distance when it was part of the status bar.

However, I did like it when they added the play clock when it ran below 10 seconds.
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post #177 of 178 Old 09-15-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeewing View Post

I liked the down and distance when it was part of the status bar.

However, I did like it when they added the play clock when it ran below 10 seconds.

I agree, although a couple of times they kept the play clock graphic on the field and ticking well after the ball was snapped.
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post #178 of 178 Old 09-16-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanSaysYo View Post

I agree, although a couple of times they kept the play clock graphic on the field and ticking well after the ball was snapped.

My guess is that the graphic won't disappear until the clock operator resets it to 40. That stuff is generally automated.
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