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post #4621 of 6444 Old 02-15-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

It was my wife who first thought this out loud several weeks ago. I was on the fence as to it being a 3rd-verse. Last week solidified it for me, though. Peter came back to the correct universe all along - it is his long term presence coupled with September's failure to fully erase all traces that is setting things right among the rest of the group, beginning logically w/ Olivia & Walter.

Curious to see how this development affects Nina Sharp & her mysterious Olivia project.

I tend to agree with you. Considering that Peter was erased, it's very likely that Olivia and Walter are just what they would be without his influence/presence.
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post #4622 of 6444 Old 02-15-2012, 03:57 PM
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The more interesting question is what happens if they regain their memories of the old timeline?

They will have dual memories of thirty years of their life. If the show had more time it would be interesting to see the characters mentally unable to discern the old timeline from the new timeline. Especially if Peter's sphere of influence is extremely small and the rest of the world stays the same.


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post #4623 of 6444 Old 02-15-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The more interesting question is what happens if they regain their memories of the old timeline?

They will have dual memories of thirty years of their life.

Why would they have dual memories?
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post #4624 of 6444 Old 02-15-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

Why would they have dual memories?

If they are in the same universe and Peter's influence is reasserting their original personalities, then it shouldn't erase what they experienced of the life they lived without Peter.

The only way to wipe the memories of a life without Peter is to completely rewrite the timeline of the universe again. That isn't happening. It's just personal memories bleeding through. Olivia remembered what it was like before but when she woke she still had the experiences of the rewritten universe and the recollection of her dream of the original timeline.

They can't just swap out memories without rewriting the timeline. Otherwise Olivia and Walter would have no idea of how the world and relationships around them formed over the thirty previous years, just as Peter didn't.


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post #4625 of 6444 Old 02-15-2012, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The only way to wipe the memories of a life without Peter is to completely rewrite the timeline of the universe again.

Maybe the timeline itself is reverting back to what it was?
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post #4626 of 6444 Old 02-15-2012, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

Maybe the timeline itself is reverting back to what it was?

It's possible but we haven't seen any evidence of that and it would require the world to physically rearrange itself.

That would be cool to see but considering all the universe anomalies going on it would make for one messy world. With universes bleeding into other universes as they are and people and places winking out of existence as the timeline starts to shift.

Agent Lee for example will vanish from Fringe division in the Prime Universe since he never originally worked with Olivia when Peter was around.


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post #4627 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 11:49 AM
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This season is starting to ramp up. Lots of development last night, less MOTW. Anna Torv makes my heart sing.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #4628 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 12:41 PM
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Pretty good stuff in this episode. I was a bit confused by the ending of the mystery--why did the hospitalized boy's network of brothers go telepathically "offline" for him? Did they realize that he'd ratted them out to the Fringe group and shun him?

The idea of Nina Sharp's dosing Olivia with Cortexiphan bringing about her regaining pre-editing-out-of-Peter memories is interesting. I'm surprised that she apparently used the stored supply of the drug. You'd think that the formula for it would have been saved; hell, Walternate (or his chief scientist) figured out how to make it in pre-edited reality. I wonder when we'll find out what Nina Sharp's aim is in giving it to Olivia now.

Next episode sounds pretty damn exciting--the revelation of the observers' story. I also can't wait to hear about this bizarre predicament that Olivia fell into at the end of the episode. Did she spontaneously jump universes?

And yeah--Anna Torv is adorable. You'd think that this role would be getting her some movie work. All I see on her IMDb page is that Heavenly Sword is in post production starring her as Nariko (the part that she voiced in the PS3 game of the same name). I was wondering if she was really suitable to play Nariko in a live action version of the story, but I just read that Nariko's features are modeled after hers and that she did some mo-cap work for the game.

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post #4629 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

... Curious to see how this development affects Nina Sharp & her mysterious Olivia project.

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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The idea of Nina Sharp's dosing Olivia with Cortexiphan bringing about her regaining pre-editing-out-of-Peter memories is interesting. I'm surprised that she apparently used the stored supply of the drug.

I'm guessing or what if: there's two Nina Sharp's, the real one was captured and replace by one of Walternate's shape shifters which is the Nina that is doing the drugging. The real Nina is being held captive untill they're finished implementing their twisted plot, leaving the real Nina holding the bag. As to why they're drugging Olivia we'll soon find out
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post #4630 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

(...) why did the hospitalized boy's network of brothers go telepathically "offline" for him?

I thought it was the death of the father.
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(...) the real one was captured and replace by one of Walternate's shape shifters (...)

The Secretary doesn't appear to be behind the shifters.
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post #4631 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Pretty good stuff in this episode. I was a bit confused by the ending of the mystery--why did the hospitalized boy's network of brothers go telepathically "offline" for him? Did they realize that he'd ratted them out to the Fringe group and shun him?

Given the bee analogy... I assumed the doctor was the "Queen" bee... thus when he died, the swarm was disconnected.

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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The idea of Nina Sharp's dosing Olivia with Cortexiphan bringing about her regaining pre-editing-out-of-Peter memories is interesting. I'm surprised that she apparently used the stored supply of the drug.

Except that wasn't Nina... or maybe it was... just the alternate Nina.

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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

You'd think that the formula for it would have been saved; hell, Walternate (or his chief scientist) figured out how to make it in pre-edited reality.

Well... to be fair... Walternate only figured out how to make it AFTER kidnapping Olivia and testing her to figure out how she was able to jump across the universes. In this new reality, that never happened (Olivia never developed that power) so nobody "over there" had any reason to do any of those experiments.

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Next episode sounds pretty damn exciting--the revelation of the observers' story. I also can't wait to hear about this bizarre predicament that Olivia fell into at the end of the episode. Did she spontaneously jump universes?

I was thinking that... but it is probably much simpler... that she was surprised and kidnapped.

I originally thought Nina was going to be a shapeshifter... but they usually kill the person they take the form of... so now I'm inclined to think the Nina doing the bad stuff is alternate Nina.

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post #4632 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 01:30 PM
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Since fans have asked for a long time for the alternate Nina's story, my guess is the second Nina is working with David Robert Jones and she could be altNina or a shapeshifter.
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post #4633 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Walk_Good View Post

I'm guessing or what if: there's two Nina Sharp's, the real one was captured and replace by one of Walternate's shape shifters which is the Nina that is doing the drugging. The real Nina is being held captive untill they're finished implementing their twisted plot, leaving the real Nina holding the bag. As to why they're drugging Olivia we'll soon find out

Does this version of Nina have an iRobot arm? Did the shapeshifter also copy the robot arm?


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post #4634 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 02:15 PM
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I’m guessing or what if: there’s two Nina Sharp’s, the real one was captured and replace by one of Walternate's shape shifters which is the Nina that is doing the drugging. The real Nina is being held captive untill they’re finished implementing their twisted plot, leaving the real Nina holding the bag. As to why they’re drugging Olivia we’ll soon find out …

That's a whole other season.
(sorry, couldn't resist)

What gets me is, there are enough stories within stories to fill up the rest of this season without the MOTW stuff (which is really boring).

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post #4635 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 02:34 PM
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Man the promo for next weeks episode was outstanding I can not wait to get some actual answers with the observers.

You can never judge a show by its pilot episode or the half season following it.
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post #4636 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Does this version of Nina have an iRobot arm? Did the shapeshifter also copy the robot arm?

No - and that was odd. Saw it last night, she had two (apparently real) hands. We know she lost her arm after the Raiden Lake incident. But I thought that Peter drowned after the fact, so her arm should still be missing?
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post #4637 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 05:55 PM
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No - and that was odd. Saw it last night, she had two (apparently real) hands. We know she lost her arm after the Raiden Lake incident. But I thought that Peter drowned after the fact, so her arm should still be missing?

Maybe she didn't reach through the portal trying to stop Walter in this edited reality, in which he fails to save the other universe's Peter.

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post #4638 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Pretty good stuff in this episode. I was a bit confused by the ending of the mystery--why did the hospitalized boy's network of brothers go telepathically "offline" for him? Did they realize that he'd ratted them out to the Fringe group and shun him?

Seems like self preservation was the hive's goal, so it makes sense.

Quote:


The idea of Nina Sharp's dosing Olivia with Cortexiphan bringing about her regaining pre-editing-out-of-Peter memories is interesting. I'm surprised that she apparently used the stored supply of the drug. You'd think that the formula for it would have been saved; hell, Walternate (or his chief scientist) figured out how to make it in pre-edited reality. I wonder when we'll find out what Nina Sharp's aim is in giving it to Olivia now.

I'm interested in the explanation as well, as it seems like they're walking a fine line here, continuity-wise. Olivia has been getting migraines a lot longer, presumably, than Nina has been kidnapped. But perhaps the Cortexiphan injections just make that condition worse?

The implication of that final scene was that Nina has not betrayed Olivia's trust but rather it was the doppleganger. How did Jones come to know what's going on with the Cortexiphan? And why is Olivia important?

What would make the most sense to me, right now, is that Jones is not, in fact, the mastermind. Bell is. It's about that time of the season for Bell to make an appearance. Bell has the knowledge. Bell knows that Oliva's ability is triggered by fear, and electrocuting her adoptive mother would certainly be a good way to activate Olivia's abilities.

Quote:


I also can't wait to hear about this bizarre predicament that Olivia fell into at the end of the episode. Did she spontaneously jump universes?

More likely, Jones jumped universes to kidnap her. We know he has the technology.

Quote:


And yeah--Anna Torv is adorable. You'd think that this role would be getting her some movie work. All I see on her IMDb page is that Heavenly Sword is in post production starring her as Nariko (the part that she voiced in the PS3 game of the same name). I was wondering if she was really suitable to play Nariko in a live action version of the story, but I just read that Nariko's features are modeled after hers and that she did some mo-cap work for the game.

It seems like it's very difficult to film a television series and appear in films. Hugh Laurie had to drop Perry White in Superman Returns because of House, and Olivia Wilde has been absent multiple times as well for movie filming, which was the reason she left the series, I believe.

Only thing that comes to mind is she was in The Pacific.
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post #4639 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

And yeah--Anna Torv is adorable. You'd think that this role would be getting her some movie work. All I see on her IMDb page is that Heavenly Sword is in post production starring her as Nariko (the part that she voiced in the PS3 game of the same name). I was wondering if she was really suitable to play Nariko in a live action version of the story, but I just read that Nariko's features are modeled after hers and that she did some mo-cap work for the game.

Andy Serkis was cutscene director on Sword so all the scenes were fully acted in motion capture suits. Something he was used to from LotR.

The facial model wasn't Torv but they captured her expressions and performance in the same way Serkis was used for Gollum and Kong.


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post #4640 of 6444 Old 02-18-2012, 08:47 PM
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The facial model wasn't Torv but they captured her expressions and performance in the same way Serkis was used for Gollum and Kong.

I got that idea from the Wikipedia article about the game (color me shocked that a Wikipedia article could be wrong ). I don't recall that the character's face looked particularly much like Torv's, though I suppose that the character's face isn't that dissimilar either:


(I only played the demo and decided that it was a bit too much of a button masher for my taste).

EDIT: I found a video about mo-cap for the game (here); Torv comments at 3:06 in the clip about them using photographs of the actors faces to blend features into the character facial design..

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post #4641 of 6444 Old 02-19-2012, 12:30 PM
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Man the promo for next weeks episode was outstanding I can not wait to get some actual answers with the observers.

The show goes on a three-week break after that episode doesn't it?

I wonder if Fox will announce if the show is cancelled during that time to allow the creators to finalize a series ending?


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post #4642 of 6444 Old 02-19-2012, 01:21 PM
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The show goes on a three-week break after that episode doesn't it?

I wonder if Fox will announce if the show is canceled during that time to allow the creators to finalize a series ending?

Dude -- way to harsh my buzz after Friday night's great ep, and next week's potentially epic one was revealed to us in the previews.

Walter would prescribe psychoactive drug therapy to cope with may well be the inevitable, no doubt. Me? I'm going to continue to believe! [in a last ditch ratings surge and, maybe, the sudden crash of 'Alcatraz']
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post #4643 of 6444 Old 02-19-2012, 01:22 PM
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I hate when they do the hiatus thing. Looks like a lot of secrets will be revealed. I wonder if they're trying to wrap things up. I'm not ready to let go of Fringe yet.

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post #4644 of 6444 Old 02-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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Dude -- way to harsh my buzz after Friday night's great ep, and next week's potentially epic one was revealed to us in the previews.

Walter would prescribe psychoactive drug therapy to cope with may well be the inevitable, no doubt. Me? I'm going to continue to believe! [in a last ditch ratings surge and, maybe, the sudden crash of 'Alcatraz']

Alcatraz is crashing and I think it may well end up cancelled, along with Terra Nova. Depends probably on how Fox perceives its pilot slate, and whether they can put something else on Mondays with Touch (assuming that, too, can hold its own this spring.) I tend to agree with the thinking that Fringe's fate basically comes down to whether Fox is happy with Bones on Thursdays or is looking to shake things up. If it is, then Bones could wind up in Fringe's slot.

As it stands, Fox's schedule has seen fairly significant erosion across the board this year, so maybe that's a cut in favor of Fringe (or maybe that's a cut in favor of just blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch with X-Factor/Idol, Glee, and New Girl). Fringe's ratings are down YoY, but they've been pretty steady at a 1.1 rating so far this spring. At this point, if trends continue, it might outdo Kitchen Nightmares by the end of the season, which is down to a 1.3.

I think the hiatus helps Fringe. It's getting pulled off the schedule in favor of finishing in May sweeps, and the lack of reruns will keep the ratings average up--something you'd want to do if you were planning to bring it back next year for a final run of indeterminate length (but likely without repeats).
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post #4645 of 6444 Old 02-19-2012, 08:40 PM
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The show goes on a three-week break after that episode doesn't it?

Why??
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Alcatraz is crashing

Actually I feel just the opposite. I didn't like the show for the first few, but after last weeks turn of events, it just turned into a Fringe (sort of).

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post #4646 of 6444 Old 02-20-2012, 12:35 AM
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Actually I feel just the opposite. I didn't like the show for the first few, but after last weeks turn of events, it just turned into a Fringe (sort of).

Disregarding feelings, the ratings for Alcatraz are actually relatively good.
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post #4647 of 6444 Old 02-20-2012, 12:50 AM
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Why??

1) End of sweeps (+ hold remaining new episodes for next sweep period.)
2) March insanity.

It's fine by me, I'm a full week behind on most of my shows. It'll give me a chance to catch up.
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post #4648 of 6444 Old 02-20-2012, 08:22 AM
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Disregarding feelings, the ratings for Alcatraz are actually relatively good.

Relative to what? In all likelihood, Alcatraz will finish with a lower average than Terra Nova, and TN will probably be cancelled. Alcatraz premiered to just under 10 million viewers and pulled a 3.3 rating in 18-49. Since The Voice premiered, it has shed viewers at an alarming rate. The last episode pulled 6.2 million viewers and just a 1.9 rating in 18-49.

Terra Nova's average was 7.2 million total viewers and a 2.5 share. It is highly, highly unlikely that Alcatraz will beat that unless it sees a significant rebound in its final seven episodes. Hell, Fringe's ratings are the worst of the worst according to TV By the Numbers, and it's pulling nearly 60% of what Alcatraz is... on a Friday night. By the end of its run, Alcatraz might be doing Fringe numbers in a prime viewing slot.

The only shows on Fox that are a lock for next season are: X-Factor, Idol, Glee, and New Girl (plus The Simpsons, etc.). After that, most likely renewals are Bones (though perhaps for a final season, as they've made deals on costs for two seasons in a row now, and part of that involved The Finder, which tanked) and Raising Hope, just because Fox needs at least two half-hour comedies on the schedule.
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post #4649 of 6444 Old 02-20-2012, 08:48 AM
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Relative to what? In all likelihood, Alcatraz will finish with a lower average than Terra Nova, and TN will probably be canceled. Alcatraz premiered to just under 10 million viewers and pulled a 3.3 rating in 18-49. Since The Voice premiered, it has shed viewers at an alarming rate. The last episode pulled 6.2 million viewers and just a 1.9 rating in 18-49.

Terra Nova's average was 7.2 million total viewers and a 2.5 share.

You think they'll actually cancel 'Terra Nova'? I figure it's got a longer leash because of 1) the big investment they've already sunk into it, 2) foreign sales, 3) Spielberg

Of course, that's mostly what I thought about 'The Event', too.
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post #4650 of 6444 Old 02-20-2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

The only shows on Fox that are a lock for next season are: X-Factor, Idol, Glee, and New Girl (plus The Simpsons, etc.). After that, most likely renewals are Bones (though perhaps for a final season, as they've made deals on costs for two seasons in a row now, and part of that involved The Finder, which tanked) and Raising Hope, just because Fox needs at least two half-hour comedies on the schedule.

Well, TV By The Numbers disagerees with you. They see Alcatraz as a certain renewal.
Jeremy W is offline  
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