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JimP 10:37 AM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flambe View Post

...snip...
Also I really didn't expect us not to get any closure on last weeks awesomely amazing episode. I guess that'll happen in the next two weeks?


Yeah, that was a pretty good episode.

Since they extended the series 13 more episodes, I'm not so sure what they would do about tieing up loose ends. Can't exactly wrap it up in the next two episodes, then what would they do for the following 13 episodes?

ltownsend's Avatar ltownsend 10:50 AM 04-28-2012
Lincoln chose to stay with the AltVerse, that's why he disappeared with the rest of them. He said to Peter that he also believed that "home is where the heart is" (as did Peter) and wanted to stay with AltOlivia, since he had no chance with his Olivia.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 11:21 AM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flambe View Post

I was just wondering why Lincoln disappeared and Peter didn't. Did it really just matter what side of the room you were on? I thought they were going to throw a wrench into that. Either way, yes it was sad to see them go.

Also I really didn't expect us not to get any closure on last weeks awesomely amazing episode. I guess that'll happen in the next two weeks?

I'm not sure that we would have gotten much closure on that, if the series hadn't been extended. I think that episode 19 was a look at where the story will go in the final season. Now I expect this season to end with something dire having happened to Olivia and the team plus Bell encased in amber.
Ron Temple's Avatar Ron Temple 12:19 PM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I'm not sure that we would have gotten much closure on that, if the series hadn't been extended. I think that episode 19 was a look at where the story will go in the final season. Now I expect this season to end with something dire having happened to Olivia and the team plus Bell encased in amber.

That's one possibility, but the Observers don't invade until 2015. They might wrap up the Jones problem for now and develop the Observer invasion scenario from the near future before freezing them in amber somewhere in the 13 eps...then wrapping it in 2036. I got the impression that in 2036 Walter's team were noted freedom fighters...and that something happened to Olivia due to Bell, but she and Peter did have a kid. So there should be some space between this seasons's finale and the invasion for the child to be born. My guess is that S5 will start out developing the invasion scenario, the birth of Henrietta, something happening to Olivia, then the amber freeze. The jump to 2036 will be the endgame.

All that said, the "Olivia will die" situation (this season) is still on the table. The previews suggest that Bell might be getting involved in the finale. If he's involved in killing Olivia off now...and the amber freeze happens now...nah, it would ruin the continuity of 2036...unless Henrietta is born during a small time jump in the next 2 eps.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:25 PM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

That's one possibility, but the Observers don't invade until 2015.

Who says that the final episode won't end a little bit in the future? In "Letters of Transit" they said that they'd been gone "20 years" (which could be an approximation, actually 19 or 21 years), which would put their "amberization" in 2015-2017, more than sufficient time for Olivia and Peter to produce Etta.
HDMe2's Avatar HDMe2 03:57 PM 04-28-2012
They actually have a bit of a time disconnect with Henrietta...

Peter in 2036 says he had been in amber for 20 years... that means he was ambered in 2016.

Henrietta is 24... and was 4 when he was ambered...

but, that means she would have to be born in 2012... and as far as we know Olivia isn't pregnant, is she?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 04:23 PM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Henrietta is 24... and was 4 when he was ambered...

In what scene was it stated that she's 24?
chestnu1's Avatar chestnu1 04:23 PM 04-28-2012
I was thinking that we will have the last two episodes of the season probably ending with a time jump with the observers invading. And then when we pick back in season 5 the first episode or two shows them getting encased in amber and then the rest of the 13 episodes takes care of the observer invasion story arc. I am really glad fringe got those last 13 episodes to wrap everything up lets just hope they give us a truly satisfying ending that will give us the fans closure Because frankly I don't like series finales that end on disappointing note.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 04:44 PM 04-28-2012
It may have been discussed earlier, and at this point it really doesn't matter, but given the news this week of a final 13 episodes being produced, I wonder how much of the story has been altered by the writers since they did not possess that information when these final episodes of the season were written.

I know it's been stated they were preparing for an early demise to the series so I have to wonder if next season's 13 will feel like they were tacked on after the fact. I would trust these writers over most all shows to make sure that doesn't happen, but you never know until you know. Please, no Lost-style ending what ever they do.

It would be interesting to see how the path of the story was changed to accommodate both scenarios though.
Ron Temple's Avatar Ron Temple 04:59 PM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

It may have been discussed earlier, and at this point it really doesn't matter, but given the news this week of a final 13 episodes being produced, I wonder how much of the story has been altered by the writers since they did not possess that information when these final episodes of the season were written.

I know it's been stated they were preparing for an early demise to the series so I have to wonder if next season's 13 will feel like they were tacked on after the fact. I would trust these writers over most all shows to make sure that doesn't happen, but you never know until you know. Please, no Lost-style ending what ever they do.

It would be interesting to see how the path of the story was changed to accommodate both scenarios though.

They shot 2 endings. One as a series finale. The other as a season finale, but with threads attached to ep. 19. Both versions are supposed to put paid to S4 and many unanswered questions...we'll see...there's always unanswered questions.
HDMe2's Avatar HDMe2 09:48 PM 04-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

In what scene was it stated that she's 24?

Reverse osmosis... and I may have miscalculated the math... she may be 25.

But... there was a scene where she says her parents disappeared when she was 4. Knowing that Peter was her father and he reveals he was in amber for 20 years... she becomes 24 or 25 depending on how much approximating there was.

Basically... if Olivia isn't pregnant and giving birth this fall, the 2036 future we just saw isn't going to happen in quite the same way...
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 10:01 PM 04-28-2012
So what are the unanswered questions? The things that I can think of are:
  • Who made the machine?
  • Why are there ancient documents concerning the machine scattered throughout human history?
  • Why is the machine keyed to Peter's genome?
They're supposed to be wrapping up the whole plot that began with in season 1 in this season's finale, which I take to be the "conflict with the red universe" thing. They will shift to the "conflict with the Observers", not-so-good-guys from Earth's future 600 years out, when they've completely destroyed the environment (and, apparently, female humanity).
HDTVChallenged's Avatar HDTVChallenged 12:10 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

but, that means she would have to be born in 2012... and as far as we know Olivia isn't pregnant, is she?

My feeble memory seems to recall a child of Fauxlivia that was hidden away by Walternate? Could it be that "Etta" is not the child we are expecting?

I don't recall the resolution (if any) of that plot line ...
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 12:22 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

My feeble memory seems to recall a child of Fauxlivia that was hidden away by Walternate? Could it be that "Etta" is not the child we are expecting?

I don't recall the resolution (if any) of that plot line ...

It happened in the original timeline. In this one, though it appears that the Fauxlivia did infiltrate, Peter wasn't part of it because Peter didn't exist. Therefore she never slept with him under the pretense of being blue-Olivia and was not impregnated.

Sort of like how Olivia's sister is married with two children instead of being a divorced mother of a single child.
CJPC's Avatar CJPC 01:47 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

So what are the unanswered questions? The things that I can think of are:
  • Who made the machine?
  • Why are there ancient documents concerning the machine scattered throughout human history?
  • Why is the machine keyed to Peter's genome?
They're supposed to be wrapping up the whole plot that began with in season 1 in this season's finale, which I take to be the "conflict with the red universe" thing. They will shift to the "conflict with the Observers", not-so-good-guys from Earth's future 600 years out, when they've completely destroyed the environment (and, apparently, female humanity).

I thought they explained that last season, that Walter(s) in the future made the machine to send it to the past thru that wormhole in Central Park.
videobruce's Avatar videobruce 05:57 AM 04-29-2012
Exactly how does one make a telephone call from one universe to another?
A long extension cord?

I'm willing to bet, we haven't seen the last of the other side (at least I hope not).
JimP 06:08 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Exactly how does one make a telephone call from one universe to another?
A long extension cord?

Bet monoprice has one of those.
Superman2's Avatar Superman2 06:09 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Exactly how does one make a telephone call from one universe to another?
A long extension cord?

I'm willing to bet, we haven't seen the last of the other side (at least I hope not).

He had used to bridge to cross over, to the fringe division side to make the call... they showed a brief shot to imply it.
videobruce's Avatar videobruce 06:42 AM 04-29-2012
Interesting, since it was mentioned "the other side" I beleive in the conversation and I took it he was there at the time.

I didn't see anyone else comment on that. I thought it was funny.
URFloorMatt's Avatar URFloorMatt 09:45 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJPC View Post

I thought they explained that last season, that Walter(s) in the future made the machine to send it to the past thru that wormhole in Central Park.

Indeed. The question, and my problem with the last episode, is that they have never explained even vaguely how or why it came into being in a timeline where Peter never existed.
CJPC's Avatar CJPC 10:05 AM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

Indeed. The question, and my problem with the last episode, is that they have never explained even vaguely how or why it came into being in a timeline where Peter never existed.

Well, the easy choice is that sometime in the future they need to do it again, especially for everything to make sense (think Bender's Big Score).

The difficult explanation is wizards.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:26 PM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman2 View Post

He had used to bridge to cross over, to the fringe division side to make the call... they showed a brief shot to imply it.

He was sitting in that conference room in the middle of the bridge where they were sitting when all the blue-siders got cell phone calls about fresh earthquakes at the same time as all of the red-siders got calls on their ear-clip phones.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 01:28 PM 04-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

Indeed. The question, and my problem with the last episode, is that they have never explained even vaguely how or why it came into being in a timeline where Peter never existed.

Nor was it explained how it was activated in the absence of Peter.
jwebb1970's Avatar jwebb1970 11:07 AM 04-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Nor was it explained how it was activated in the absence of Peter.

I wonder if this paradox relates to the "remnants" of Peter that the Observers were supposed to erase, but did not....and maybe COULD NOT.

In other words, there was no way to completely erase Peter Bishop whether or not September or any other Observer followed through on the clean up.

Perhaps September's original screw up - saving Peter & this universe's Walter @ Reiden Lake many years back - essentially locked Peter into needing to exist?

I'm just grabbing @ straws here....at least we have 13 more episodes beyond this season to hopefully get that answer (if we do not get it in the next 2 weeks - I would think that this would tie in somewhat to the D.R. Jones plot).
RussB's Avatar RussB 06:21 PM 04-30-2012
Here are some of the other unanswered questions:
1) What happens to Olivia?
2) How does Bell come back for a second time? (Note: His atoms were dispersed in the alternate universe when the Fringe team and some others tried to return from the alternate universe. He first came back in the animation episode and used Olivia's body to speak at the beginning of that episode.)
3) How will the different time lines be resolved?
4) What will happen with the alternate universe?
5) What will happen with the Observers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

So what are the unanswered questions? The things that I can think of are:
  • Who made the machine?
  • Why are there ancient documents concerning the machine scattered throughout human history?
  • Why is the machine keyed to Peter's genome?
They're supposed to be wrapping up the whole plot that began with in season 1 in this season's finale, which I take to be the "conflict with the red universe" thing. They will shift to the "conflict with the Observers", not-so-good-guys from Earth's future 600 years out, when they've completely destroyed the environment (and, apparently, female humanity).


HDMe2's Avatar HDMe2 06:38 PM 04-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB View Post

2) How does Bell come back for a second time?

Well... we don't know what happened to Bell in the new timeline. His disintegration and then resurrection inside of Olivia all happened in the previous timeline.

In the new timeline, Olivia never crosses over... so Bell wouldn't have been involved in helping them get back... so Bell could be anywhere alive and kicking.

File that under the "wha hoppen?" stuff that they will likely never fully explain with regards to all the changes since the timeline reboot.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott 07:32 PM 04-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

In the new timeline, Olivia never crosses over... so Bell wouldn't have been involved in helping them get back... so Bell could be anywhere alive and kicking.

I'm pretty sure that she did cross over. I'm not sure why she did it (obviously not to retrieve Peter), but we do know that Fauxlivia did her infiltration thing--Walter had a major attitude about it when Fauxlivia came to the lab to retrieve red-Astrid. I suppose that it's possible that they abducted Olivia some other way and replaced her with Fauxlivia, but the replacement definitely happened--in that episode Walter gives her back all of the stuff she left behind, including a little case that Walter had assumed was a spy device which turned out to be a mint dispenser.
HDMe2's Avatar HDMe2 02:49 AM 05-01-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I'm pretty sure that she did cross over. I'm not sure why she did it (obviously not to retrieve Peter), but we do know that Fauxlivia did her infiltration thing--Walter had a major attitude about it when Fauxlivia came to the lab to retrieve red-Astrid. I suppose that it's possible that they abducted Olivia some other way and replaced her with Fauxlivia, but the replacement definitely happened--in that episode Walter gives her back all of the stuff she left behind, including a little case that Walter had assumed was a spy device which turned out to be a mint dispenser.

Yes... in this timeline Olivia was still replaced... but they didn't take her back to the red universe. They just held her captive somewhere.

In the original timeline they captured Olivia on the other side (so technically they didn't transport her over then either) and Olivia got home by herself.

But there was no instance (that they've mentioned so far) of Olivia and company going over to the other side like they did in season 2... and especially not one that required Bell to help them get home and sacrificing himself in the process.

Basically, we haven't been told a LOT of what changed... including whether or not Bell is alive or dead or what in the new timeline. Since they haven't shown/told us... they could easily pull him out of their hat and especially IF they could convince Nimoy to come back since he did do an appearance (sort of) on Big Bang Theory recently... he hasn't "completely" retired from acting as was the original plan apparently.
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te 08:01 AM 05-01-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post


Yes... in this timeline Olivia was still replaced... but they didn't take her back to the red universe. They just held her captive somewhere.

In the original timeline they captured Olivia on the other side (so technically they didn't transport her over then either) and Olivia got home by herself.

But there was no instance (that they've mentioned so far) of Olivia and company going over to the other side like they did in season 2... and especially not one that required Bell to help them get home and sacrificing himself in the process.

Basically, we haven't been told a LOT of what changed... including whether or not Bell is alive or dead or what in the new timeline. Since they haven't shown/told us... they could easily pull him out of their hat and especially IF they could convince Nimoy to come back since he did do an appearance (sort of) on Big Bang Theory recently... he hasn't "completely" retired from acting as was the original plan apparently.

The only hint that he is alive in this timeline is the other weeks episode when he saw him trapped in Amber. This would be the clue possibly that he is still alive and just not yet shown.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt 09:09 AM 05-01-2012
Did anyone see the previews for this week? Not sure how it referenced this timeline but they mentioned him being obliterated(?) on the other side. Which we saw in an episode with the old timeline. But they did have Walter mentioning it in the previews.
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