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post #5251 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 07:58 AM
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I don't understand the criticism that shows like Lost and Fringe get/got from self-professed "fans." I've lost count of how many times I've read variations of "It's obvious that the writers don't know what they're doing."

The way I see it, shows like this eschew the predictable, formulaic writing that dominates other television dramas. Writing for shows that challenge perceptions of time and space involves taking huge risks. Sometimes they pay off, and sometimes they don't. I don't have a problem with posters voicing their criticisms of specific episodes or directions plot lines are taking, but at a certain point, I have to ask why anyone would invest a significant amount of time watching a show they no longer like (if they ever did) and then criticizing it on a public forum.

Personally, I love movies and shows that challenge my perceptions of reality and the art forms themselves. They're not always successful, either financially or artistically, but I'd rather watch a hundred of them than one predictable, formulaic one.
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post #5252 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 08:53 AM
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I don't have a problem with posters voicing their criticisms of specific episodes or directions plot lines are taking, but at a certain point, I have to ask why anyone would invest a significant amount of time watching a show they no longer like (if they ever did) and then criticizing it on a public forum.

I have very few complaints about Fringe.

But the Lost writers made a huge deal about how they knew the ending very early on, and it was totally based in science, and everything would make sense. All of that, clearly, was complete ********. Season 1 of the show was phenomenal. Season 2 and 3 were mostly a mess. They had some good ideas in Seasons 4, 5, and 6, but they ultimately couldn't come up with any good way to tie it all together.
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post #5253 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 08:57 AM
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Deus ex machina endings, like Lost's, are never satisfying. The only time I can remember that the "it was all a dream" ending working well was in the movie Jacob's Ladder.

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post #5254 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 09:17 AM
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The "worst" episodes of LOST were still about 1000000000X better than the best epsiode of (insert generic procedural or family drama title here), IMO. I would say the same for FRINGE against anything else on TV.

Did LOST end they way I thought it would? No. Did I hate it? No. Did I get a little choked up during the finale? Yes. I even have gone back & watched LOST from pilot to finale - I enjoyed it even more.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. One person's treasure is another's sh*t.

But here is the challenge to the complainers....could you write & produce something better? Prove it!

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But the Lost writers made a huge deal about how they knew the ending very early on, and it was totally based in science, and everything would make sense. All of that, clearly, was complete ********. Season 1 of the show was phenomenal. Season 2 and 3 were mostly a mess. They had some good ideas in Seasons 4, 5, and 6, but they ultimately couldn't come up with any good way to tie it all together

This + the comments from FRINGE cast members regarding the S4 mutli endings....the lesson should be "NEVER trust what a writer/producer/actor says about thier serialized sci-fi flavored series while it is in production". You will find it might just increase your level of enjoyment.

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post #5255 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 09:22 AM
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Hey--I never claimed to be able to create a great plot, while the creators of Lost did. I didn't lead millions of faithful viewer around by the nose for six seasons only to boot them hard in the face at the end.

I enjoyed some of Lost and the rest was just wasted hours of my life. I was not at all choked up at the ending, just flabbergasted .

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post #5256 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by paligap View Post

I don't understand the criticism that shows like Lost and Fringe get/got from self-professed "fans." I've lost count of how many times I've read variations of "It's obvious that the writers don't know what they're doing."

The way I see it, shows like this eschew the predictable, formulaic writing that dominates other television dramas. Writing for shows that challenge perceptions of time and space involves taking huge risks. Sometimes they pay off, and sometimes they don't. I don't have a problem with posters voicing their criticisms of specific episodes or directions plot lines are taking, but at a certain point, I have to ask why anyone would invest a significant amount of time watching a show they no longer like (if they ever did) and then criticizing it on a public forum.

Personally, I love movies and shows that challenge my perceptions of reality and the art forms themselves. They're not always successful, either financially or artistically, but I'd rather watch a hundred of them than one predictable, formulaic one.

"The Internet is a vast communications tool where people from the world over can come together to bitch about movies & share pornography with one another. The 'web is filled with people bitching about some movie or TV show they claim to hate, but yet cannot stop talking about" - Kevin Smith.

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post #5257 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Deus ex machina endings, like Lost's, are never satisfying. The only time I can remember that the "it was all a dream" ending working well was in the movie Jacob's Ladder.

Perhaps. But to me, the deus ex machina criticism is less valid when the story already requires viewers to accept premises that defy our perceptions of reality. Alternate universes, time travel, etc. can easily be viewed as preposterous.
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post #5258 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

The "worst" episodes of LOST were still about 1000000000X better than the best epsiode of (insert generic procedural or family drama title here), IMO. I would say the same for FRINGE against anything else on TV.

Did LOST end they way I thought it would? No. Did I hate it? No. Did I get a little choked up during the finale? Yes. I even have gone back & watched LOST from pilot to finale - I enjoyed it even more.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. One person's treasure is another's sh*t.

I couldn't have said it better. I feel exactly the same way. And lest we forget, J.J. Abrams is behind both Lost and Fringe. I have a feeling that I'll look back on both of them in more or less the same way. Sometimes confusing, sometimes frustrating, but always challenging and compelling.
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post #5259 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by paligap View Post

I couldn't have said it better. I feel exactly the same way. And lest we forget, J.J. Abrams is behind both Lost and Fringe. I have a feeling that I'll look back on both of them in more or less the same way. Sometimes confusing, sometimes frustrating, but always challenging and compelling.

Between the 2, it has seemed like JJ had his hands in the intial overarching story of FRINGE more so than with LOST. The latter already was an existing idea (or 2) that ABC brought Abrams in on to try & solidify/polish. He was basically done with anything day to day soon after finsihing up the pilot ep.

Same could be said w/ FRINGE, but it sounded like JJ was more involved in the early concept/creation of the series.

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post #5260 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 12:19 PM
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I personally think that Fringe has answered more questions and resolved more plot mysteries to a satisfactory degree compared to LOST, even if the show ended two episodes ago.
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post #5261 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

It's interesting that multiple members of the cast (Jackson, Noble and Reddick), who would have been involved in filming an alternate ending, apparently lied about having done so. Doesn't seem like much of a joke.

One assumes that there won't be any shocking cliffhanger, since they were content for the ending to be the end of the story.

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Note: There are additional spoilers at the web site.

Not so far as I can see--that link just leads to what you quoted.

The following is at the web site.

Fringe: John Noble Previews 'Massive' Two-Part Season Finale (video)

I think the video could be a spoiler, so I didn't watch it. Also, the comments in the spoiler tag are shown. My comment was just a heads up for the reader.
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post #5262 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Hey--I never claimed to be able to create a great plot, while the creators of Lost did. I didn't lead millions of faithful viewer around by the nose for six seasons only to boot them hard in the face at the end.

I enjoyed some of Lost and the rest was just wasted hours of my life. I was not at all choked up at the ending, just flabbergasted .

This exactly.

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The "worst" episodes of LOST were still about 1000000000X better than the best epsiode of (insert generic procedural or family drama title here), IMO. I would say the same for FRINGE against anything else on TV.

Disagree completely. Crap is crap, regardless of how ambitious it sets out to be. The difference between Fringe and Lost, really, is that the creators of Lost basically promised to reveal the meaning of life by the end of the series. It became too flighty and philosophical. The writers of Fringe have never promised anything remotely that absurd.

Fringe is grounded. It has interesting and likeable characters with clear motivations, and this drives the story in logical directions. With every new flashback or flashforward, the Lost writers, lacking any direction, basically rewrote every character until they were despicable and intensely unlikeable people (or dead).
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post #5263 of 6444 Old 05-03-2012, 08:02 PM
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Disagree completely. Crap is crap, regardless of how ambitious it sets out to be. The difference between Fringe and Lost, really, is that the creators of Lost basically promised to reveal the meaning of life by the end of the series. It became too flighty and philosophical. The writers of Fringe have never promised anything remotely that absurd.

Fringe is grounded. It has interesting and likeable characters with clear motivations, and this drives the story in logical directions. With every new flashback or flashforward, the Lost writers, lacking any direction, basically rewrote every character until they were despicable and intensely unlikeable people (or dead).

One man's entertainment is another man
's garbage. Sorry you feel life was wasted on that other show.

But I never felt I was lied to or had a promise to me broken. Of course, my childhood feels securely safe from feeling raped by George Lucas due to some tweaks to a few movies, so what the hell do I know

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post #5264 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

The difference between Fringe and Lost, really, is that the creators of Lost basically promised to reveal the meaning of life by the end of the series. It became too flighty and philosophical. The writers of Fringe have never promised anything remotely that absurd.

You mean the producers lost you at some point? (okay okay....) btw I like how Lost ended. I was just wondering towards the end, how can they possibly end this? and, well, it could have been different had it been written by different persons, but I felt the conclusion was still satisfying. I really liked how the 'we will meet again' thing turned out.

I'm sure when the ending comes, some questions in Fringe will be left unanswered too (hopefully not the most important ones!), but it's more fun to speculate on the little details after all!
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post #5265 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 06:05 PM
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Ooh, I want a Sprint cellphone to get pay by wireless coffee! Does it include that freezing trick!

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post #5266 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 06:23 PM
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Nice to see he's still acting
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post #5267 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 06:25 PM
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post #5268 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 07:36 PM
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Ooh, I want a Sprint cellphone to get pay by wireless coffee! Does it include that freezing trick!

You mean the burning trick?

Yeah baby!  It's Halloween!
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post #5269 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 07:37 PM
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A LOT of people did a very good job at keeping something cool under wraps for this episode.

I am amazed that such a secret was kept in this day and age.

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post #5270 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 08:16 PM
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Yeah - opening credits gave it away however. Then again, credits are a necessity!
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post #5271 of 6444 Old 05-04-2012, 08:41 PM
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You mean the burning trick?

Yes, I come to later find that out. It looked like frosty haze to me, when I watched it. I guess I should have taken the clue with the mouth discoloration.

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post #5272 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 01:14 AM
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I was completely blown away by seeing 'Belly'. What an outstanding episode. One more left for the season.

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post #5273 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 01:15 AM
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Yes, I come to later find that out. It looked like frosty haze to me, when I watched it. I guess I should have taken the clue with the mouth discoloration.

I thought the first person to die looked like frost too. Then everyone after that appeared to be fire.

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post #5274 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 03:42 AM
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I believe they almost had to have him back in the series. At least it made up for the disaster 'lost it's way' episode a few weeks ago.
I didn't see his name in the credits (which was kinda nice) and events leading up to his entry pretty much told me just who was back.

WTF happened to Jones?? Everyone here assumed he was the 'key' to all of this and now his character is vapor (literally).
Has to be the fastest exit of a central character I have seen in some time.

One exits as fast as another re-enters.

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post #5275 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

Yes, I come to later find that out. It looked like frosty haze to me, when I watched it. I guess I should have taken the clue with the mouth discoloration.

I was just ribbing you... To tell the truth, I thought the first guy froze too... but I guess it was supposed to be smoke we were seeing.

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WTF happened to Jones?? Everyone here assumed he was the 'key' to all of this and now his character is vapor (literally).
Has to be the fastest exit of a central character I have seen in some time.

Well... it is the second time they offed Jones... so he had his shot, twice!

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post #5276 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 07:32 AM
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I did enjoy the whole reference to "Bishop" they lead you towards Peter and it's significance is really regarding Jones.
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post #5277 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 08:22 AM
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Loved the episode for the intensity and the "surprise" appearance of a certain individual...

Otherwise though it felt all over the place...2 amazing, huge catastrophes contained by the Fringe division way too easily/quickly...and until (if) we find out why I don't understand the motive behind creating those 2 types of fringe events.

What will also be interesting to watch for next week is the fact that the finale was made as a series finale so will it include things like:

1) September told Olivia that "she had to die"

2) Who is this "Mr. X" that was going to be the one to kill her?

As well as any other question that has been left unanswered...when the showrunners created this finale it had to be thought of as their last chance to tie things together at the time...should be interesting to see what they've done with it...
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post #5278 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 08:55 AM
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Loved the episode for the intensity and the "surprise" appearance of a certain individual...

Otherwise though it felt all over the place...2 amazing, huge catastrophes contained by the Fringe division way too easily/quickly...and until (if) we find out why I don't understand the motive behind creating those 2 types of fringe events.

What will also be interesting to watch for next week is the fact that the finale was made as a series finale so will it include things like:

1) September told Olivia that "she had to die"

2) Who is this "Mr. X" that was going to be the one to kill her?

As well as any other question that has been left unanswered...when the showrunners created this finale it had to be thought of as their last chance to tie things together at the time...should be interesting to see what they've done with it...

Thought I'd read that two endings were filmed - just in case? I assume the series finale episode won't be the one they'll show if so.
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post #5279 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 11:01 AM
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Thought I'd read that two endings were filmed - just in case? I assume the series finale episode won't be the one they'll show if so.

Only one ending was shot...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...-ending-319573
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post #5280 of 6444 Old 05-05-2012, 12:32 PM
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"Spock" looked a lot better in the Enterprise interview than last nite. Must be the makeup.

With the way this series works, just because we saw Jones disappear like a vampire w/ a stake in the heart doesn't mean we won't somehow see him again.

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