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post #991 of 6444 Old 04-08-2009, 03:09 PM
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Yes, that is a spoiler, up until now we never really knew if the Bell character even existed.
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post #992 of 6444 Old 04-08-2009, 07:53 PM
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Apparently my wife and I are in the minority on last night's episode: we hated it and couldn't wait for it to end. It doesn't help that neither one of us has any patience for children on television. Liv's niece is nails-on-a-chalkboard-annoying and we saw the boy as being Observer Jr. from a mile away. However, it was nice to have Walter back.

More Walter & Peter, less Ass-turd (aka Agent Exposition), more Massive Dynamic, please.
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post #993 of 6444 Old 04-08-2009, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

...
FOr those of you that are fans of the show and\\or want to see the last 5 minutes you can see it here:
http://www.fringetelevision.com/

Its a great fan site that is often updated with interviews, show notes, ect...

Thanks from me and also from hummingbird_206 over on Tivo Community Forums. I took the liberty of posting the link over there when people complained of the AI overrun and hummingbird was so effusive with thanks I felt obliged to pass it on to you.
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post #994 of 6444 Old 04-08-2009, 10:36 PM
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Thanks here too.

I couldn't get the one on the Fox site to download. This saved the day.

Wow...that fence would have stopped me cold. lol

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post #995 of 6444 Old 04-08-2009, 10:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Live shows, like this, still have to fit within a timeframe. As pointed out, this is a DVR society. DVRs have no clue that a show is running over, which appeared to be planned, as the local bugs appeared on the screen during Fringe.

Fox has taken sports overruns into account on Sundays because of all the problems it has created.

This overrun was not justified. I do not care how popular the show before it is. The network still should not treat fans this crappy.

I called and left my voice message (you are not sent to a human when you call).

Try watching The Unit on CBS on Sundays for the past 2 months.
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post #996 of 6444 Old 04-08-2009, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Yes, that is a spoiler, up until now we never really knew if the Bell character even existed.

Actually, the various characters all refer to Bell in the way we'd refer to Bill Gates. Short of a masterful act of mass delusion, I don't see why we'd presume Bell doesn't exist.

That's a little too fancy for Fringe. I mean, we are talking about a show that promotes murder by way of a virus the size of a Jack Russell Terrier (still my favorite moment). This is a show that had an airliner downed by a life-size Sonic the Hedgehog monster.

Aside from the prison escape a la Star Trek, I don't think the show has indulged too many over-complex plots.

I actually respect that.

You think about the great moments in horror/sci-fi, the one that always comes off as pitch-perfect to me is Nightmare at 20,000 Feet, from the Twilight Zone. It is classic because it isn't complicated. There's a monster. He's ripping up the plane. Why? Probably getting back at the airline for poor customer service. Who knows? Doesn't matter.

I know Fringe wants to have that big, awesome mythology that serialized shows adore. But, at its best Fringe is a really well-produced B-movie. It's better when it wants to be The Outer Limits rather than Lost.
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post #997 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

While I am grateful that Fox posted the show online so I could catch the final minutes, it sure reminded me why Internet delivery is still in its infancy.

What kind of an Internet connection do you have? I watched the last 7 minutes of this week's Fringe episode on Fox on demand, too, and it was outstanding. In fact, watching it fullscreen on my 17 inch laptop was the next best thing to HD. There were no glitches or artifacts. I have Cox OKC's premium high speed Internet, which I get at no extra charge because of how long I had used their regular high speed Internet service. That will no doubt end some time but it is nice while it lasts.

If I had to watch TV shows on a network's on demand channel, I wouldn't like it, either. It's a perfectly serviceable backup, though.
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post #998 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MeowMeow View Post

That's a little too fancy for Fringe. I mean, we are talking about a show that promotes murder by way of a virus the size of a Jack Russell Terrier (still my favorite moment). This is a show that had an airliner downed by a life-size Sonic the Hedgehog monster.

I know Fringe wants to have that big, awesome mythology that serialized shows adore. But, at its best Fringe is a really well-produced B-movie. It's better when it wants to be The Outer Limits rather than Lost.

OMG KIDDIES! -- THIS SERIES IS OUT OF THIS WORLD!!! -- or, outside the Earthly realm. Maybe beyond the parameters of any known reality, might be more apt.

This is to say that what is happening here is not of the world I inhabit. Let's review: demolition crew leader has a sudden inkling out of nowhere that the building he has just cleared is still occupied -- he suddenly wheels around, and lo and behold, they find an underground chamber -- actually network of tunnels. In it: a feral child!

The next thing we know, this quasi-Fed-part-FBI band-of-freaks shows up to intervene. What are they doing here? How did they get the call? What is their authority or jurisdiction? Why does this fall into their purview? Well, if we had any questions, we soon discover that the kid can impart useful information about the case the crew is working on. How? Why? Some sort of bizarre energy, which explains why this crew becomes involved -- this is their realm, after all -- but wait -- they knew nothing of this ability when they became involved, so again, there is no reason for their presence, even in the context of the series.

Let alone that this was a building demolition, held up indefinitely, Municipality involved, several corporations -- find of the century, news agencies swarm all over it one would think, no record of this architectural feature, mystery and very strange appearance of the kid -- but we get none of that...kid sits alone in a hosptal bed, NO ONE IS INTERESTED. Now that IS strange.

Well, ditzy psycho guy eventually proclaims the kid is not a psychic, but like a shark, can sense out people's feelings at long-distance -- oh, and somehow, because kid cares about the female lead, he can connect with the killer they are looking for, even though the female lead has had no contact with the killer on any level, so cannot herself provide any deeply buried connection to this killer -- they are two unrelated strangers, yet because of feral kid's connection to girl, he has one to the killer that she in turn has NO connection to herself.

Beyond this implausability, the kid provides words in English which he has had no exposure to, i.e., no exposure to English or words -- presumably he does not understand what he is transmitting, so how does this stuff come to him? Is the killer concentrating on those random cross streets that his van is parked in front of when he snatches someone? -- that is what happens here -- kid provides these street names -- killer's van is parked in vicinity, but this is not a place the killer drove to as a location address -- he is just parked there, apparently at random, so why would the killer be concentrating his mental energies on the cross streets so that the kid can pick it up? Maybe kid is sensing just the geographical locale, but is unfamiliar with the street grid or city layout or even English words, so if he was extrapolating the streets from a general sensing of the locale, how did the steet names pop into his brain?

Also, ditzy nut case decides they need a "verbal detector" machine that ditzy then gets out of mothballs, perfectly preserved where he left it twenty years earlier -- to read the kids verbal thoughts that he cannot speak. Why can't kid speak these thoughts? Because he knows no language -- not that he doesn't have vocal cords -- so what will the machine read? -- well, his verbal thoughts of course. How? by going to the verbal centers of his brain and scanning all that English he has stored up from never learning one letter or word of English or ANY language apparently.

Also, honestly, is our best romanticized interpretation of psychosis that it consists of no more than some pretty precious mental meanderings? Possibly some inappropriate but undeniably cute, if inconsistent, insensitivity to social conventions? Possibly a few precocious outbursts that embarass, thrown in? Is that it? Went to the nut ward for decades over that? While Harvard preserved his whole lab just as it was? They weren't ever interested in that speech-reading machine that they obviously funded? -- could've changed the world but they don't even care now -- good old Walter has all he needs at his disposal free of charge or accountability. What universe is this?

At a point you just have to ask, what is this series premised on? None of it makes sense, including the all-important relationships of the parties involved and their motivations. Let alone this is not how the world works on any level. FBI chick actually walks away with the kid out of the hospital -- what is her authority? Why is she even involved here? Well, maybe the hospital folks weren't looking, don't know why the media is not swarming all over this hospital, but there are no cops or social workers either -- she just walks out because she asked the kid if he wanted to go, so no one notices that weird looking bald freak is leaving with lady.


BUT THEN, BUT THEN, mind you -- a CIA operative appears who DOES have the legal authority to commandeer kid -- HOW? WHAT AUTHORITY? -- who knows? But we are assured that his claim to some child found in an abandoned building falls under CIA legal authority -- no one else is involved apparently, including Child Protective Services which he first pretended to be, and that might have made SOME sense.

The Outer Limits type intrigue and happenings I don't mind in the least, but this show needs to get a grip on its REALITY.
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post #999 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 09:06 AM
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They used that device earlier in the season so its not been in mothballs for 20 years. The kid is from an alternate universe/reality as he is one of the watchers and the kid may/is not a kid at all age wise.

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post #1000 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Argee View Post

They used that device earlier in the season so its not been in mothballs for 20 years. The kid is from an alternate universe/reality as he is one of the watchers and the kid may/is not a kid at all age wise.

"Kid" was my term of reference for what appears to be a kid. Speculated in this episode to be possibly much older chronologically than it would seem, but that technicality aside, they used a kid to play him, he looked like a kid, so "kid" seemed well-enough applied. So your point was?..........

I guess you are saying this kid is supposed to be related to the earlier bald guy who was sitting in a coffee shop, then alerted to some building disaster that took place within sight of the shop? What gave you this insight? I can't remember anything in this episode that pointed to that conclusion, whether it may be true or no, except the CIA agent phoning someone and saying "We found another one."

Can't remember much of that earlier episode, but what then are we supposed to know of the powers/abilities of this alternate-universe being? What was the kid imparting to our female lead? A precognition? A sensing of some tidbit of energy surrounding an event already having happened? If he was trying to put her in a position to solve the case, why make the clues vague? That is where knowing what he was revealing might explain something.

If our intrepid dimensional explorers are so experienced now in this type of being (I can't remember what they supposedly learned about the last guy), why are they surprised that he renders up this somewhat useful, related information -- why did they seem just as in the dark as I am as to what he is about?

As far as the device goes, Walter thought it would translate the kid's verbal thoughts to spoken English while also supposing that the kid had had NO exposure whatsoever to verbal communication before he was found. That is not even a logical progression, let alone scientific methodology, so how is it that this crackpot invented some of these incredible devices with such a disorganized thinking process? And if he dug it out earlier in the season, then up until THAT point it had been in mothballs (figuratively) for all the time he was in the nut ward -- my point was that with universities strapped for funds, they generally re-evaluate everyone who is taking up space CURRENTLY -- their value to the university as money-maker usually -- let alone leave something like this sit there untouched for twenty years -- whatever the time span is said to be. What were they paying him for before? Why did they not then introduce this miracle machine to the world? Again, your point was?

I am far from expert on this series, but part of the problem here is that it seems all invented out of whole cloth -- whatever needs to be thrown into the story, gets in there whether it makes particular sense or not. This lends itself to not caring that much, then forgetfulness ensues as to the detail elements. Even during the course of a single episode it is hard to sustain interest, because everything flows from things that don't or would not happen. If it was tightly crafted, then we pay attention as the gears move into place, because it would then matter.
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post #1001 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Emaych View Post


I guess you are saying this kid is supposed to be related to the earlier bald guy who was sitting in a coffee shop, then alerted to some building disaster that took place within sight of the shop? What gave you this insight? I can't remember anything in this episode that pointed to that conclusion

It was deducted by Walter that the "kid" was an empath, and that he 'connected' with specific individuals - Olivia and the construction worker at the beginning of the episode, for example. With that deduction established, the "kid's" reaction to the Observer - being startled out of his happy connection with Olivia and her home life, and turning to look at the Observer as the car in which he was riding passed him on the sidewalk - is what would give someone paying attention to the episode (like Argee) such an insight. His reaction would indicate a 'connection' with the Observer.
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post #1002 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph View Post

It was deducted by Walter that the "kid" was an empath, and that he 'connected' with specific individuals - Olivia and the construction worker at the beginning of the episode, for example. With that deduction established, the "kid's" reaction to the Observer - being startled out of his happy connection with Olivia and her home life, and turning to look at the Observer as the car in which he was riding passed him on the sidewalk - is what would give someone paying attention to the episode (like Argee) such an insight. His reaction would indicate a 'connection' with the Observer.

Well Joseph, you don't know how gleeful it makes me that I have found folks who have paid attention to this episode -- folks like you and Argee. So many unanswered questions -- I'll just dig in:

*You say that Walter thinks the kid had a connection to the construction worker. I think you think this means that the kid triggered this worker's interest as he was walking away ready to destroy the building, so this is a two-way deal -- kid can implant thoughts as well as read them? I'm wondering why he didn't just get THE ARTIST to stop killing, if he was really trying to further Olivia's interests, instead of giving out vague, ineffectual clues? Also, when the crew breaks in, he seems to be evading them until trapped, but if he wanted to be found...........?

*One such clue he gave out was an address. The team dutifully goes there, but the male agent instructs Olivia to take one side of the street, while he takes the other. Now I know you must know why they didn't just go to the address given -- they are on that street we see, but don't go directly to the address, why was that? -- I don't think I was paying sufficient attention to know myself. Also they most certainly must have passed the address in the course of this search -- they pass the van that has the killer and still-live victim in it -- but where is the dog?

*We learn later that the dog was tied up AT the address that they must have passed, but they are surprised to learn the dog was found there later, so the dog was not there when they were there. You must have noticed because you paid attention -- was that dog in the van with the killer and victim, trying to be quiet so as not to give away the killer? Then tied up later of course by a humane ARTIST. Also regarding this same incident, how is it the kid came up with the address? -- the victim was mobile with dog, killer intercepted them at some point. Was the killer precisely aware of the address? -- to me it looked like a section of street that had a wrought iron fence running the length of it, so where was the address? But anyway, was the killer thinking about that exact address as the kid zeroed in on his mind waves? Must have missed that part, myself.

*How is it the FBI has anything to do with this case? What is Federal about it? Since when is the Federal government in the business of devoting resouces to kids trapped in buildings? Who called them? Did they learn of kid though the media, which certainly has a story for the ages here, but where are THEY? Why is the agency even interested here? What is so FRINGE about a kid in a building? -- no one has died, it does not resemble their other cases to me, but must be something I missed.

*CIA agent confronts the free kid with our resident weirdoes -- we learn kid was in protective custody when Olivia absconded. How's that? When did that happen? Who was guarding him? Whose authority was he under? These things are all under specific protocols, not administered on an ad hoc basis if the Feds want to intrude, so was he being guarded by the Police for Child Protective Services? Where were any of these folks when Olivia just walked out with him? Sorry, I just must not have noticed.

*Another incidental detail that bothered me was that Olivia is driving around checking out Meat Packing plants (why is THE ARTIST going someplace so conspicuously out of the ordinary to buy plastic? Doesn't Home Depot carry it, and wouldn't that afford much more anonymity?) She gets some intel, but leaves with a sketch! -- where did that sketch artist come from? Again, alot of resources on some pretty sketchy stuff, forgive the pun.

*We are told kid is mad at Olivia because he knows if he helps her stop the killer, he is going elsewhere, so he does not want to help. But wasn't the actual deal they made that they get the kid for one more day only -- no stopping the killer as part of the bargain. How come the kid did not know what the real deal was, if he "empathed" it? Anyway, she tells him what he already knows anyway apparently, that she can't stop the CIA from taking him, and suddenly he wants to help again. Why would that be? Like I say, I think he was supposed to know this anyway, if he was so connected.

*So kid gives another clue: cross streets. We don't know their significance, but Olivia knows somehow to set up a roadblock. What is the authority of this roadblock? Citizens can't even learn what it is for (she is not going to tell them). The Feds are even searching trunks and the like. Unlawful search and siezure? That is a pretty large leap into questionable legal territory for a non-verbal kid writing cross streets on paper -- meaning unknown. Also, a car breaks away when Olivia notices a Christmas tree on the rear view mirror -- does not look much like the arrow the kid made in M&Ms, but that is enough for her to start shooting at the van, possibly killing a victim within -- she doesn't know, but DOES know that she has all the authority she needs -- kid wrote those cross streets on paper, we are going to try and kill anyone who runs when we block the intersection!

Well, Joseph, thanks for your help in advance for explaining all that. I feel like just such a downright dunderhead that I didn't notice all the foundation they provided to answer those questions -- I missed it, but I feel you are the man to ask -- you and Argee, that is.

Oh BTW, the incident you referred to -- where kid connects with Observer -- my surmise is that that must have happened in the last few moments where my episode truncates due to Idol overrun, because I saw no such thing, but then again, I missed so much else -- it could have been right in front of my eyes and I'd never know! Lordy, I'm feeling as ditzy as Walter lately! -- What ya gonna do?
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post #1003 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 07:39 PM
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Oh, also, I just have to add: if this kid is so sensitive to malevolent harm or people's intentions and feelings, doesn't he empath that Walter is one dangerous SOB? Ruined countless lives with his mad science, almost detroyed Olivia's mind (with her consent in that Altered States tank) -- whether through negligence, not caring, not knowing enough to be dabbling in the forces he is working with, madness or malice, Walter is much more dangerous than THE ARTIST ever thought of being, yet the kid blithely lets himself be hooked up to one of his mad machines. That struck me as a little odd too -- please explain. I guess it must have been Walter's little dance -- just melted the heart didn't it?
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post #1004 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

What kind of an Internet connection do you have? I watched the last 7 minutes of this week's Fringe episode on Fox on demand, too, and it was outstanding. In fact, watching it fullscreen on my 17 inch laptop was the next best thing to HD. There were no glitches or artifacts.

Same here. Watched the end on Hulu and the picture quality was fine.


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post #1005 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 08:21 PM
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I liked Olivia a lot better this week, too. She seemed much warmer and less withdrawn than in earlier episodes, especially in her scenes with the kids. Also, she told her sister that she liked her job most of the time, which surprised me a little. Olivia had seemed so tortured most of the time in earlier shows, I thought she must be unhappy in her work.

I wouldn't be surprise if the point of this episode was to defrost Olivia's character after people kept commenting on how cold she was last year.

I liked the CIA twist and Walter dancing but the rest of this episode was overly familiar ground again. Not helped by the fact I watched the latest X-Files movie last month. Another serial killer case in which the bad guy is caught thanks to someone who can "feel" the victims.


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post #1006 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

Beyond this implausability, the kid provides words in English which he has had no exposure to, i.e., no exposure to English or words -- presumably he does not understand what he is transmitting, so how does this stuff come to him? Is the killer concentrating on those random cross streets that his van is parked in front of when he snatches someone? -- that is what happens here -- kid provides these street names -- killer's van is parked in vicinity, but this is not a place the killer drove to as a location address -- he is just parked there, apparently at random, so why would the killer be concentrating his mental energies on the cross streets so that the kid can pick it up? Maybe kid is sensing just the geographical locale, but is unfamiliar with the street grid or city layout or even English words, so if he was extrapolating the streets from a general sensing of the locale, how did the steet names pop into his brain?

Also, ditzy nut case decides they need a "verbal detector" machine that ditzy then gets out of mothballs, perfectly preserved where he left it twenty years earlier -- to read the kids verbal thoughts that he cannot speak. Why can't kid speak these thoughts? Because he knows no language -- not that he doesn't have vocal cords -- so what will the machine read? -- well, his verbal thoughts of course. How? by going to the verbal centers of his brain and scanning all that English he has stored up from never learning one letter or word of English or ANY language apparently.

None of that was proven, it was just an assumption by Walter. If indeed the child was empathetic he could use Olivia's verbal/language skills and not need know how. He could use her inherent knowledge of the case (as she was deeply involved with it and the child sense the importance of it to her) and "tap into it". As they discovered, it wasn't the murderer he had the connection with, it was Olivia.

But then again, since we saw The Stranger watching the child at the end of the episode, and the child's resembalence was more than a bit eery, how he got into the tunnel in the first place, it could be something totally different.

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post #1007 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

But then again, since we saw The Stranger watching the child at the end of the episode, and the child's resembalence was more than a bit eery, how he got into the tunnel in the first place, it could be something totally different.

I thought it could have been The Observer when he was younger. Time shouldn't be difficult to bend for him based on all the other stuff in the show.


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post #1008 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

I thought it could have been The Observer when he was younger. Time shouldn't be difficult to bend for him based on all the other stuff in the show.

I thought that too, but since we really don't know anything right now it would just be another guess. But the CIA agent did say, "We found another one" which could mean that he was another Observer/feral child? Of course, once more just guessing.

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post #1009 of 6444 Old 04-09-2009, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I thought that too, but since we really don't know anything right now it would just be another guess. But the CIA agent did say, "We found another one" which could mean that he was another Observer/feral child? Of course, once more just guessing.

Since we dont know much about the observer(s) we can only speculate....If I were to guess though, I would say that the child is an observer, just not as fully matured as the one we see. As Walter suggested we really dont know how old the "child" was, and can only go off of physical looks, but as we all know looks can be deceiving. This owuld be especially ture depending on how things work in the alternate universe.

The only thing that "irked" me after the episode is that they didnt get the chatter recoreded. I am surprised that they dont ahve the ability to copy the stream directly on the PC that they were using. From the sound of the chatter it almost sounded as if it was coming in backwards and would need to be played back to be comprehended.

I HAve to say though another great episode .....I have now set my DVR to record 5 minutes over in case Idol runs over again (Heck who am I kidding, WHEN Idol runs over again in the upcoming weeks).
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post #1010 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 12:50 AM
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I have now set my DVR to record 5 minutes over in case Idol runs over again (Heck who am I kidding, WHEN Idol runs over again in the upcoming weeks).

It ran about 7min over last time, so better make it longer than 5minutes. I set my Fringe series recording to now go 15min over, better safe than sorry.
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post #1011 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 06:21 AM
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None of that was proven, it was just an assumption by Walter. If indeed the child was empathetic he could use Olivia's verbal/language skills and not need know how. He could use her inherent knowledge of the case (as she was deeply involved with it and the child sense the importance of it to her) and "tap into it". As they discovered, it wasn't the murderer he had the connection with, it was Olivia.

But then again, since we saw The Stranger watching the child at the end of the episode, and the child's resembalence was more than a bit eery, how he got into the tunnel in the first place, it could be something totally different.

Oh yes, perfectly true that it was Walter's deduction that the kid was non-verbal. That was at least based on this: kid found in a series of tunnels under a building that was sealed up "like a sarcophagous" for seventy years. Nutritionally deficient in such a way that it would point to his having lived in that environment all his days. There was no exposure to language where he was, therefore he had no language skills.

Now member Joseph above (who I was responding to), had said:

"It was deducted by Walter that the "kid" was an empath....With that deduction established...."

Then goes on to treat Walter's premise as if it were established fact. Of course you and I recognize that that assumption is unwarranted and not necessarily implied even by the series. But I also remind you that Walter, even with his own premise in mind, then goes on to deduce that his (Walter's) "verbal translator" device is going to be effective in getting the kid to "speak" when it scans an area of the kid's brain which most certainly would not even be developed under Walter's own hypothesis.

But I like your solution -- if we posit that the kid could connect with outside intelligence -- conciousnesses that were/are verbal -- that he could and would have done this for all his supposed decades within that underground tomb, especially during his formative years when he ordinarily might have been acquiring speech -- then it seems more than likely that he might have acquired language just as other kids do -- though link-up and exposure to his target connection's visual imaging, etc.

Now it seems to me, especially through the upside-down writing and not looking at what he was writing, that we were supposed to get the message that the kid had no particular comprehension of the words themselves, or understanding of the way in which his transcribed clues would be useful to Olivia, but there again, we can't say for sure.

What seems more clear is that Olivia did not know on her own to go to those addresses/locales, so that SHE was not concentrating on any addresses relevant to the killer. It seems very unlikely that the killer himself was concentrating on the address given as "clue," or in the case of those cross streets either -- how many times do you go through an intersection thinking of the street names as you do so? For myself, I am only thinking this if I intend to stop and look for something there, but the killer ran into an UNANTICIPATED roadblock there, so why would he be thinking IN ADVANCE no less, that this was a significant intersection? Is the kid reading the future? A headline perhaps about the incident?

Well, we do not know, but I applaud your attempt to at least put this in a rational context. Unfortunately, the more the producers force us to do all the writing because of their sloppiness or interjection of unsupported implausabilities/impossibilities, or elements that don't make logical sense, the more this becomes a fixer-upper and less a stand-alone entertainment which might have been fascinatingly well-crafted and tightly bound together.

Of course I find myself entertained by trying to think through possible explanations for unsupported STUFF, but then maybe it is apparent that I am willing to devote some considerable energy to it, possibly the viewing public will not be so motivated.
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post #1012 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 07:03 AM
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Oh BTW, the incident you referred to -- where kid connects with Observer -- my surmise is that that must have happened in the last few moments where my episode truncates due to Idol overrun, because I saw no such thing, but then again, I missed so much else -- it could have been right in front of my eyes and I'd never know! Lordy, I'm feeling as ditzy as Walter lately! -- What ya gonna do?

I had the show DVR'd and would have missed the final scene I referenced also; luckily for me, I was using the the recording to delay the broadcast only enough to skip the commercials, so when I started the recording and saw that AI was still going, I was able to lengthen the recording enough to cover the show.

No question, if you missed that scene, there was nothing in the episode that would have overtly tied the "kid" to the Observer.

As to your other points, don't look to me for a defense of the writing. I don't disagree with your observations. It seems to me that Fringe and its mythology are still somewhat a work in progress - the writers still seem to be laboring to discover the core of the show. It's been very uneven this year, with some shows really good, and some shows not so much. I'm willing to grant the writers broad latitude as they work to figure out where they want to go, because there's just so much good potential here, it's worth it!
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post #1013 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 07:22 AM
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I had the show DVR'd and would have missed the final scene I referenced also; luckily for me, I was using the the recording to delay the broadcast only enough to skip the commercials, so when I started the recording and saw that AI was still going, I was able to lengthen the recording enough to cover the show.

No question, if you missed that scene, there was nothing in the episode that would have overtly tied the "kid" to the Observer.

As to your other points, don't look to me for a defense of the writing. I don't disagree with your observations. It seems to me that Fringe and its mythology are still somewhat a work in progress - the writers still seem to be laboring to discover the core of the show. It's been very uneven this year, with some shows really good, and some shows not so much. I'm willing to grant the writers broad latitude as they work to figure out where they want to go, because there's just so much good potential here, it's worth it!

Oh yes, very good. I am of a similar inclination -- I realize there is much which they are not imparting at this time as well. I do like that there does seem to be emerging certain thematic undercurrents, some ongoing plotlines and subtexts that maintain our interest from week to week.

This is always an ambitious undertaking as a series finds its way. In fact, up until participating here and with your post in particular, I was not even aware that fans of the series were referring to the earlier "elder" bald guy as "The Observer" or that he was thought to hint at any broader thematic content than just the one episode in which he appeared, but then I Googled and saw some of the chatter.

Looking forward to more revelations -- for now, I'm along for the ride too, it would be great if the series improves -- I should be lovin this stuff!
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post #1014 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 08:47 AM
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I wonder if The Observer is related to The Watcher.


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post #1015 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

I was not even aware that fans of the series were referring to the earlier "elder" bald guy as "The Observer" or that he was thought to hint at any broader thematic content than just the one episode in which he appeared, but then I Googled and saw some of the chatter.

It's gotten to be a fun thing to see if you can spot him - he has appeared in every episode (except maybe one) since the episode in which he was the central character (he's usually somewhere casually in the background, but he's there, doing his job, observing, just like he did in the episode in which we learned about him). He's definitely emblematic of something yet to be revealed.
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post #1016 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 02:59 PM
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It's gotten to be a fun thing to see if you can spot him - he has appeared in every episode (except maybe one) since the episode in which he was the central character (he's usually somewhere casually in the background, but he's there, doing his job, observing, just like he did in the episode in which we learned about him). He's definitely emblematic of something yet to be revealed.

Ah! Well now there IS something I had not noticed. I'll be keeping my eye out from hereon in -- just hope it isn't product placement for a certain well-known cleaning fluid.

The more I learn about it, this character is starting to bear an uncanny similarity to THE WATCHER from Marvel as Marcus points out...not necessarily something for them to be proud of, though if they do justice to a concept, I'll be the first to advocate the producers be drafted for THE WATCHER movie.
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post #1017 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 03:14 PM
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Ah! Well now there IS something I had not noticed. I'll be keeping my eye out from hereon in -- just hope it isn't product placement for a certain well-known cleaning fluid.

He's also been cutely featured in several sporting events covered by Fox, sitting in the stands or standing on the sidelines. They zoom out and get a side shot of him in the foreground (the announcers don't mention him). You can see a clip of him in the stands at a NASCAR race, here. NASCAR seems a little low-brow for the observer--he's definitely overdressed .

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post #1018 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 04:28 PM
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Ah! Well now there IS something I had not noticed. I'll be keeping my eye out from hereon in -- just hope it isn't product placement for a certain well-known cleaning fluid.

How did you miss an entire episode which explained what he was doing?

Especially the fact it was (and still is IMO) the best episode of last year.


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post #1019 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 04:57 PM
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How did you miss an entire episode which explained what he was doing?

Especially the fact it was (and still is IMO) the best episode of last year.

Well, let's see...could have been any number of things, sometimes my recievers spontaneously fail to inspire my recorders to spark to action...any number of things.

There is even a good chance I did see it but allowed it to slip from memory as quickly as a Chinese meal sprinkle-spiced with ex-lax -- this has not been a high-priority viewing for me. As I had alluded to before, if the compound inexplicable implausibilities mount to such tenuous threshhold as to topple my mental investment altogether, it is likely my retention lasts no longer than viewing itself.

I will venture: apparently there are those assembled here who must have seen this episode and still not a one has stepped up to inform as to what kind of "connection" is even being established here -- my surmise is that it has yet to be explained what this character is up to, so I'm skeptical that all has been revealed.

Nevertheless, let us approach from this angle: you provide the episode title and I'll see if there might be some online viewing methodology that can be applied to bring me up to speed on this most critical expositional revelation of the season. Or link perhaps, if you feel inclined to be particularly helpful.
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post #1020 of 6444 Old 04-10-2009, 05:24 PM
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It's not our job to bring you up to speed. Either you watch the program and begin to enjoy it for what it is, a televison show and nothing else or move on and complain about something else? Better yet since you seem to be well versed write your own pilot and sell it.

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