'Seinfeld' in HD on TBS HD! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 206 Old 09-10-2008, 11:30 AM
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OK, got it. How do you know it's not available and do you know why?
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post #92 of 206 Old 09-10-2008, 09:45 PM
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Wouldn't it have made much more sense back on day 1 for the HDTV standard to have been set to 16:10 like a widescreen computer monitor instead of 16:9? Seems like this would have been a much easier aspect ratio to work with.

Analyzing the Seinfeld screenshots, it looks like there's an extra 48 pixels of data on the sides (688x480 if converted to 480 lines of resolution). When converting this to 16:9, you must crop out (vertically) roughly 94 pixels of data (76 on the bottom and 18 on the top). However, to convert this to a 16:10 ratio, you wouldn't need to crop out nearly as much - only 50 pixels (would effectively be 688x430).

To make a long story short, to attain a 16:10 ratio instead of 16:9, using Seinfeld as an example, you would only have to crop out roughly HALF AS MUCH vertical data.

EDIT - here is a screenshot showing how a 16:10 cut would look. The white lines represent the 16:9 crop, the blue lines show what a 16:10 crop would look like. IMO, that's a considerable amount of vertical picture loss in the 16:9 cut.

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post #93 of 206 Old 09-11-2008, 02:32 AM
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The reason for 16:10 is 2 documents side by side or thats what they say. I want my TV more wide (at least 1.85) not less.
My answer for this would be to broadcast the entire 1.37 frame and then use the TV to crop'n'chop if you hate black bars.
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post #94 of 206 Old 09-11-2008, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonsvsu View Post

Wouldn't it have made much more sense back on day 1 for the HDTV standard to have been set to 16:10 like a widescreen computer monitor instead of 16:9? Seems like this would have been a much easier aspect ratio to work with.

No. 16:9 was chosen for TV broadcasting, not for use as a computer monitor. If the ratio was 16:10, then 1.85:1 movies would be letterboxed and cinemascope 2.35:1 movies would have larger black bars. It was the choice of the studio to crop all the way to 16:9. They could have chosen to go to 1.66:1 or 1.6:1 with modest pillarbars. If you get HDNet, check the compromise cropping and ratio for Hogan's Heroes which was one of the first old TV series shown in HD.

16:10 or 1.6:1 ratio for computer was probably chosen in part for editing 16:9 video so you could have toolbars above or below the 16:9 image.
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post #95 of 206 Old 09-11-2008, 09:24 AM
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From what I've pieced together from various sources, 16:9 was already a standard AR built into MPEG-2 before the Grand Alliance decided to use it for HDTV so it was nothing they had control over. They could have come up with another AR in MPEG-3 but they decided MPEG-2 would work well enough so that proposed standard was canceled.

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post #96 of 206 Old 09-11-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zEli173 View Post

OK, got it. How do you know it's not available and do you know why?

The station I work for asked about it, and were told that they have no plans to syndicate the HD versions at this time. As for the reason, don't know.
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post #97 of 206 Old 09-12-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videojanitor View Post

The station I work for asked about it, and were told that they have no plans to syndicate the HD versions at this time. As for the reason, don't know.

Because very few stations can do syndicated HD? (Apparently only two in Baltimore or Washington can.)

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post #98 of 206 Old 09-12-2008, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Carr View Post

Because very few stations can do syndicated HD? (Apparently only two in Baltimore or Washington can.)

There are plenty of syndicated shows available in HD. Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune, a bunch of sitcoms, recently Oprah and Ellen...
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post #99 of 206 Old 09-12-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zEli173 View Post

There are plenty of syndicated shows available in HD. Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune, a bunch of sitcoms, recently Oprah and Ellen...

But not many people can see them in HD.

(There are actually three stations that show HD syndicated shows around here. One shows Wheel and Jeopardy, and one shows Raymond. But only one station show one of the newer HD shows.)

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post #100 of 206 Old 09-12-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Carr View Post

But not many people can see them in HD.

(There are actually three stations that show HD syndicated shows around here. One shows Wheel and Jeopardy, and one shows Raymond. But only one station show one of the newer HD shows.)

None of my locals can do syndicated shows in HD, and none of them have any plans to do so in the near future.
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post #101 of 206 Old 09-18-2008, 04:25 PM
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some more full res HD screenshots would be super-- I doubt we'll see seinfeld in hd in canada anytime soon...
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post #102 of 206 Old 09-18-2008, 11:48 PM
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post #103 of 206 Old 09-19-2008, 06:59 AM
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thanks!
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post #104 of 206 Old 09-19-2008, 06:58 PM
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two and a half men is syndicated in hd in philly.
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post #105 of 206 Old 09-19-2008, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Carr View Post

But not many people can see them in HD.

(There are actually three stations that show HD syndicated shows around here. One shows Wheel and Jeopardy, and one shows Raymond. But only one station show one of the newer HD shows.)

Don't forget Two and a Half Men on CW.
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post #106 of 206 Old 09-19-2008, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

Don't forget Two and a Half Men on CW.

am i on invisible.
did you see the post above yours?
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post #107 of 206 Old 09-19-2008, 08:29 PM
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post #108 of 206 Old 09-27-2008, 06:50 PM
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Has anyone heard anything about this being released on Blu?
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post #109 of 206 Old 09-27-2008, 07:07 PM
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post #110 of 206 Old 09-28-2008, 02:35 AM
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I've been watching Seinfeld on TBS-HD the past few days, and it looks fantastic. I will gladly (extremely gladly) take the slightly cropped version of the show which is so much more aesthetically pleasing than the 4x3 version. The more natural, widescreen look is so much better than the square 4x3, that in this case, the minor cropping is not enough of a loss to make me miss it.

If a program has significant "need" for the top/bottom of the image, than a crop is unacceptable. In most circumstances, like in the case of Seinfeld, I will take the minor cropping and nothing is lost. The benefits of having a beautiful looking HD transfer far outweigh the tiny strips that are lost, in this case.

16x9 is so much more pleasing to the eye (it more closely mimics our actual sight) that it's far and away worth the tradeoff.
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post #111 of 206 Old 09-29-2008, 01:25 PM
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I noticed on D*s online program guide that Seinfeld has been moved to 7 PM eastern beginning tonight. I wonder if it's being watched more now that it's being shown in true HD instead of stretch-o-vision.
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post #112 of 206 Old 10-06-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakntime View Post

If a program has significant "need" for the top/bottom of the image, than a crop is unacceptable. In most circumstances, like in the case of Seinfeld, I will take the minor cropping and nothing is lost. The benefits of having a beautiful looking HD transfer far outweigh the tiny strips that are lost, in this case.

16x9 is so much more pleasing to the eye (it more closely mimics our actual sight) that it's far and away worth the tradeoff.


I just found this thread, so forgive me if someone has suggested this...But you have to wonder why someone hasn't marketed complete DVD sets of old tv show (like Seinfeld) "re-mastered" in HD/widescreen. When I first saw Seinfeld on my 42" plasma on TBS HD, I couldn't get over how good it looked (albeit a tad soft, not quite to the level of say, a live football game on ESPN..but still quite incredible). The opposite to that was the "stretch-o-vision" version of Judging Amy and VERY old early epsiodes of Law and Order on TNT which looked truly awful. Of course I have to wonder, can they do that with shows like MASH that were shot on film and probably used wider screen formats as film cameras and lenses do? Does that might mean that there is an area of the show beyond the 4x3 frame we see on TV? Although it could be a microphone or part of the studio set just outside of what we see on tv. Who knows.

then again...yada, yada,yada...this might be all about nothing
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post #113 of 206 Old 10-06-2008, 03:19 PM
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To reply to 3 disparate posts:

1) I'm pretty sure 16:10 was chose for computer monitors so that 16x9 could be show, with a little bit of room for control panels.

2) Right now theres 1 station in Albuquerque that can and does show Syndicated HD programming: KRQE-CBS. So its more than just a couple of stations on the east coast.

3) Theres plenty of old TV shows that were made on 35mm film that could look good on Bluray. And I do think theres a market for it. An entire season of a 24 episode sitcom should be able to fit comfortably in 1 BD-50 @ 720p quality (and I think for a lot of old shows 720p is adequate). Off the top of my head, I'd like to see: Friends, Seinfeld, MASH, Twin Peaks, Northern Exposure, Hill Street Blues, and Magnum PI.

A few of them might be suitable for 16x9 but most should be framed for 4x3 or maybe the compromise ratio of 14x9. Just depends on how they were framed.
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post #114 of 206 Old 10-06-2008, 07:35 PM
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Does anyone know the how theses shows are converted to wide screen?

In other words does TBS just run it off a satellite feed of 4:3 and then re-size it before airing? Or are do they buying the material (Seinfeld, for example) already converted to a 16:9 format?

just wondering
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post #115 of 206 Old 10-06-2008, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

Does anyone know the how theses shows are converted to wide screen?

In other words does TBS just run it off a satellite feed of 4:3 and then re-size it before airing? Or are do they buying the material (Seinfeld, for example) already converted to a 16:9 format?

just wondering

You can't take the older 4:3 standard definition video and make it HD.

The original 35mm film has been transferred to HD video, and in that process the aspect ratio was made 16:9. The details are posted previously in the topic.

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post #116 of 206 Old 10-07-2008, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

You can't take the older 4:3 standard definition video and make it HD.

obviously

I suspect, although i am not 100% sure, that Seinfeld was shot in video not film. Assuming that is true, I would guess the highest quality would be 480p.

I was thinking more along the lines of the way 16:9 movies are cropped to fit 4:3 (forgetting the pan and scan portion of the reformatting process, for the moment), just sort of in reverse. Why not reformat the entire Seinfeld series to 16:9 to an SD dvd (then we can upconvert from our SD dvd or Blu Ray players!

It seems to me, there is a market for this.
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post #117 of 206 Old 10-07-2008, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

obviously

I suspect, although i am not 100% sure, that Seinfeld was shot in video not film. Assuming that is true, I would guess the highest quality would be 480p.

I was thinking more along the lines of the way 16:9 movies are cropped to fit 4:3 (forgetting the pan and scan portion of the reformatting process, for the moment), just sort of in reverse. Why not reformat the entire Seinfeld series to 16:9 to an SD dvd (then we can upconvert from our SD dvd or Blu Ray players!

It seems to me, there is a market for this.

From all that I have read Seinfeld was shot on 35mm Film not video......
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post #118 of 206 Old 10-07-2008, 09:04 PM
 
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We just got TBS HD here...maybe a week ago or so. I've only caught the show once and it was 4:3. Curious to know when an HD episode will come up again.
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post #119 of 206 Old 10-07-2008, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

I suspect, although i am not 100% sure, that Seinfeld was shot in video not film. Assuming that is true, I would guess the highest quality would be 480p.

Read this thread. Seinfeld as were many TV shows was shot on film. Do a search as there have been multiple long threads on the topic of which old TV shows are candidates for HD, which have already been remastered in HD and detailed discussions of the technology. Older TV shows that have been shown in true HD on HDNet and UniversalHD in recent years include Hogan's Heroes, Northern Exposure (in it's 4:3 OAR), Charlie's Angels, Quantum Leap (cropped), and the Equalizer (cropped).
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post #120 of 206 Old 10-08-2008, 06:08 AM
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Older TV shows that have been shown in true HD on HDNet and UniversalHD in recent years include Hogan's Heroes, Northern Exposure (in it's 4:3 OAR), Charlie's Angels, Quantum Leap (cropped), and the Equalizer (cropped).

Don't forget about the Hoff in Knight Rider (UniversalHD)
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