Problems with ABC HD picture quality on the West Coast? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 58 Old 09-28-2008, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ja2bk View Post

This is in fact true. WC Primetime and Nightline are uplinked in two different places and to two different transponders.

Yep, Nightline is fed via the ABC East transponder for both east and west. The east transponder is pretty much up 24/7. Guess they didn't want to pay for keeping the west transponder alive, when at that time of night, wasn't necessary.

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post #32 of 58 Old 09-28-2008, 05:53 PM
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Reading that post, it seems to support that the West Coast feed (Prime Time and Nightline) is uplinked to a different transponder than the East Coast feed. That would make sense.

It did not say that Prime Time is uplinked differently from Nightline. All ABC programming is uplinked from NYC, though obviously using different equipment, hopefully set to the same parameters.

It does seem that the feeds look different. I'm not sure that the real reason has been found yet.
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post #33 of 58 Old 09-28-2008, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hphase View Post

Reading that post, it seems to support that the West Coast feed (Prime Time and Nightline) is uplinked to a different transponder than the East Coast feed. That would make sense.

Because of ABC World News being in HD, it required ABC to start using a separate transponder for the east and west feeds, other than just on Sunday. I don't know of anyone complaining about ABC Sunday programming in the past. I also do not know if the new feed configuration resulted in a change of equipment, even for Sunday feeds.

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It did not say that Prime Time is uplinked differently from Nightline.

Well, it is. While primetime uses two transponders, one for east and one for west, Nightline is fed via the east transponder for both east and west feeds.

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post #34 of 58 Old 09-28-2008, 07:39 PM
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The quality of the college games on ABC looked off over here on the east coast yesterday.

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post #35 of 58 Old 09-28-2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

While primetime uses two transponders, one for east and one for west, Nightline is fed via the east transponder for both east and west feeds.

If ABC is using the east coast feed transponder at 2:35am ET to send Nightline to the left coast, then what bird are they using for the east coast feed of the "all-night news" (its name escapes me)?
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post #36 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 12:09 AM
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You know what's funny here the Sacramento area, again Sun night primetime was awfully blurred but after the 11pm news the syndicated "Desperate Housewives" HD picture was quite sharp. Interesting?
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post #37 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jcaldwe View Post

You know what's funny here the Sacramento area, again Sun night primetime was awfully blurred but after the 11pm news the syndicated "Desperate Housewives" HD picture was quite sharp. Interesting?

That's because the syndicated episodes don't go through the ABC network distribution chain.
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post #38 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldiesfan6479 View Post

If ABC is using the east coast feed transponder at 2:35am ET to send Nightline to the left coast, then what bird are they using for the east coast feed of the "all-night news" (its name escapes me)?

I do not think that "World News Now" (I think that is the name of it) is in HD yet.

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post #39 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by videojanitor View Post

That's because the syndicated episodes don't go through the ABC network distribution chain.

That makes sense...thanks.
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post #40 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 01:24 AM
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Up until now, posters have been comparing apples and oranges, i.e., someone has an image from their local affiliate on the east coast and another has an image from their local affiliate on the west coast.

Well, I'm here to compare apples to apples by going directly to the source.

The following images are directly from the east and west ABC HD transponders. I never noticed until now, but they are using CBR and not VBR. Also the west coast has two extrra audio streams (both MPEG-2 layer II).

In a nutshell, the west coast feed is a mess. The two images that really show the problem are #5 and #7 (both from commercials because of the text).

So, here they are:

East 1 West 1
East 2 West 2
East 3 West 3
East 4 West 4
East 5 West 5
East 6 West 6
East 7 West 7

In image 5, look at the "clock". Blow it up and you'll see the drastic difference. In image 7, enlarge any of the text and look at the pixels that make up the text. Sharp on the east feed (OK as sharp as can be for video), but fuzzy on the west feed. Specifically look at the Columbia Pictures text, and little logo, on the right.

Also notice the black vertical bar on the right side of all the west images. The video isn't being shrink, the pixels are just plain being replaced with black.

It seems that ABC is recording the east feed on some kind of inferior deck and then playing it out for the west coast.

Engineers on the forum that work at west coast ABC affiliates need to complain to ABC engineering about what they are doing, as it just plain sucks. You can use these images as proof (just don't tell them where you got them ).

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post #41 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 01:45 AM
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Mr. Video ... thanks so much for going to all trouble to gather and post those images. That should put to bed any blame on the local station(s) for messing things up -- they are simply sending out what is coming in, and it's not good.

Your theory about them recording the East feed and then replaying it is a good one, but I don't think that's the case since when the Presidential debate aired last Friday, it was also hosed (and that of course, was live). When "another network" had a nearly identical problem some time back, the problem turned out to be an incorrect setting in an encoder.
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post #42 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videojanitor View Post

Mr. Video ... thanks so much for going to all trouble to gather and post those images. That should put to bed any blame on the local station(s) for messing things up -- they are simply sending out what is coming in, and it's not good.

You are welcome.

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Your theory about them recording the East feed and then replaying it is a good one, but I don't think that's the case since when the Presidential debate aired last Friday, it was also hosed (and that of course, was live). When "another network" had a nearly identical problem some time back, the problem turned out to be an incorrect setting in an encoder.

Ya, after sending out a piece of e-mail about it, I thought that maybe it was a piece of gear that was added to the recently created separate west feed. That piece of gear is either inferior or set incorrectly.

Keep in mind that ABC has had a separate west feed on Sunday nights for years and years, yet no one complained about it then. So, it is whatever they have added to the new west feed chain that is causing the problem.

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post #43 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 03:24 PM
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I have TWC in Los Angeles...local HD ABC programming looks great, but when we switch to primetime is loses all resolution. "Ugly Betty", "Desperate Housewives", etc. just don't look like they used to.It's the same OTA. I read in another thread that there was Pacific Coast feed problem. FGS! Let's get this fixed! Anyone else have any info on this? Thanks!

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post #44 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 03:32 PM
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Topic merged.

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post #45 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Topic merged.

Thanks! I hoped this gets addressed soon!

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post #46 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 05:35 PM
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Possible progress -- "World News" looks OK tonight.
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post #47 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 08:34 PM
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Definite progress -- West coast prime feed is back to normal tonight. Let's hope it stays that way and is not a fluke.
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post #48 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 09:08 PM
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I recorded the east coast ABC feed for the first 15 minutes of Dancing With The Stars earlier this evening on a Panasonic D5 tape machine. The D5 machine is a very high quality HD video tape machine as in $100K. I played the tape back three hours later and compared the picture with the west coast feed on a professional quality CRT HD monitor. I could see no difference between the two. I think whatever the problem was has been fixed by ABC.

Rory at KXTV Sacramento

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post #49 of 58 Old 09-29-2008, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory Boyce View Post

I think whatever the problem was has been fixed by ABC.

It certainly seems like it. I've got the west Boston Legal up on the computer and the first thing I looked for was the black line along the right edge. It was gone.

Definately looks normal.

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post #50 of 58 Old 09-30-2008, 07:27 AM
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Yes..."Boston Legal" looked good last night; as did "The Nightly News".

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post #51 of 58 Old 09-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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The blur in the examples above are only on vertical lines and not horizontal. That implies a possible bandwidth issue. ABC uses Tandberg encoders, and I've seen that occur with the prefilter set to soft. It should be on sharp or auto. But they fixed it so that's history now.
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post #52 of 58 Old 10-04-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TVOD View Post

The blur in the examples above are only on vertical lines and not horizontal. That implies a possible bandwidth issue. ABC uses Tandberg encoders, and I've seen that occur with the prefilter set to soft. It should be on sharp or auto. But they fixed it so that's history now.

I still don't feel that it is totally fixed yet. Watching "Ugly Betty" Thursday...it just wasn't as detailed as I remember it from previous seasons. Something is still not quite right, IMO.

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post #53 of 58 Old 10-04-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by audiomixer View Post

I still don't feel that it is totally fixed yet. Watching "Ugly Betty" Thursday...it just wasn't as detailed as I remember it from previous seasons. Something is still not quite right, IMO.

If wanted, I could do some more comparisons tonight, maybe. If ABC sends out two different college games, as it appears they will be doing, I won't be to do anything until Sunday.

That said, From what I could see Monday night, the problem was solved. That means the issue is with the source material. Keep in mind, they moved production to NY, so completely different equipment is being used to produce this show.

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post #54 of 58 Old 10-04-2008, 10:40 AM
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Here is a subtraction of East 5 and West 5 from above. The vertical edges (horizontal detail) shows the softened differences while the horizontal edges (vertical detail) are not affected. Horizontal detail is affected by bandwidth while vertical is not. Since HD video is pretty much all digital in a professional environment (cameras and monitoring are exceptions), this would imply a deliberate filter. The "prefilter" found in many encoders acts in this manner. MPEG encoding softness tends to be in both axis as the quantizing matrix tends to be symetrical:



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post #55 of 58 Old 10-04-2008, 12:34 PM
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KOMO 4 here in Seattle has a very soft picture on all of their local programming as well as World News Tonight. I have not noticed the soft picture on sports broadcasts or other network programming. It is also hit or miss whether or not World News is actually in HD. Some nights it is, others it is not. Sometimes it switches to HD in the middle of the program. I have compared feeds from both Dish Network and OTA and they appear to be identical.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Ho View Post

KOMO 4 here in Seattle has a very soft picture on all of their local programming as well as World News Tonight. I have not noticed the soft picture on sports broadcasts or other network programming. It is also hit or miss whether or not World News is actually in HD. Some nights it is, others it is not. Sometimes it switches to HD in the middle of the program. I have compared feeds from both Dish Network and OTA and they appear to be identical.

I'm trying to watch the USC / Oregon game, on Komo 4 and 4-1 right now. 4-1 has a signal so weak, my TV keeps dropping it.

Kinda dissapointing.
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post #57 of 58 Old 10-04-2008, 06:58 PM
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I just checked and KOMOs OTA signal is too weak to even come in. I'm not in a prime signal location but it usually works OK. They did mention the other day that they were going to be working on their transmitter so maybe that has something to do with it.

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post #58 of 58 Old 10-05-2008, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVOD View Post

Here is a subtraction of East 5 and West 5 from above.

You did Photoshop subtraction between two images? Strange. I capture east and west B&S tonight and did not get a gray result when doing the subtraction of the gray channel.

In any event, comparing three mages, one of which was the same iPhone commercial, results in zero differences in the quality of the characters and the images on the iPhone. All three pairs looks exactly the same... except.

There is an except that ABC might want to look into the cause thereof and that is that the far right 4 pixles are replaced with black. That results in a black vertical line along the right edge.

The interesting part is that when the encoder was set wrong and the video was getting blurred, the left edged was also blurred. Now that the encoder is fixed, it is a solid 4 pixels of black. It goes from video image to black.

So, as far as sharpness is concerned, between east and west feeds, one is just like the other.

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