'Whale Wars' on Animal Planet HD - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1464 Old 08-20-2010, 07:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WaTaGuMp View Post

Isn't ALL information 2nd hand since NONE of us are really there?

That is not the question. It is specific to Whale Wars the program and what effect it has. Nice try!
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post #1172 of 1464 Old 08-20-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

One of the arguments here is that the show has hurt their cause more than helped it. I strongly disagreed and pointed to the AP website where you would get a better representation of those that actually watch the show and their views. Sure you can point out other forums of the general public that might be against them, but that opinion might be solely based on news reports or 2nd hand information and my guess is many of those folks have never even watched the show unlike most of the posters on the AP website who I'm sure have. There is the difference.

Hogwash.

How many posters here in this thread are commenting without seeing the show?

Most people have never heard of the Sea Shepherds unless they watch the show. I'd like to see this forum of people discussing the Sea Shepherd vs. the Japanese that don't watch Whale Wars.

The AP website is full of animal-centric viewers who also watch Whale Wars - not at all as representative as those in this thread who's only common bond (beyond watching the show) is that we own HDTVs.
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post #1173 of 1464 Old 08-20-2010, 07:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Hogwash.

How many posters here in this thread are commenting without seeing the show?

Most people have never heard of the Sea Shepherds unless they watch the show. I'd like to see this forum of people discussing the Sea Shepherd vs. the Japanese that don't watch Whale Wars.

The AP website is full of animal-centric viewers who also watch Whale Wars - not at all as representative as those in this thread who's only common bond (beyond watching the show) is that we own HDTVs.

Come on panther,what are there about a dozen regular posters in this thread?

You want to see the Japanese get destroyed, never mind the AP site, go to the Yahoo forums in regards to this story. Some real nasty stuff said about them over there and from a much larger proportionate of opinions to draw from. Sure it is nice to have the majority of opinion here where it makes you feel you are correct in your assumptions, but other places you might not be so lucky and you might find yourself in the position that I hold here at AVS.
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post #1174 of 1464 Old 08-21-2010, 07:12 AM
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What is your position, exactly?
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post #1175 of 1464 Old 08-21-2010, 07:22 AM
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Why not do a poll..

Sea Shepherd vs. the Japanese

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I quickly slipped it into my trusty PS3, and started playing.


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post #1176 of 1464 Old 08-21-2010, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eddy_winds View Post

Why not do a poll..

Sea Shepherd vs. the Japanese

Pro-terrorist vs anti terrorist.
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post #1177 of 1464 Old 08-21-2010, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy_winds View Post

Why not do a poll..

Sea Shepherd vs. the Japanese

The the SS's would come in here and start throwing things at the poll.

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post #1178 of 1464 Old 08-21-2010, 11:09 AM
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Whale Wars Theme Song

Bullet With Butterfly Wings

The world is a vampire, sent to drain
Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
And what do I get, for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game

Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
All my cool and cold - like old job

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

Now I'm naked, nothing but an animal
But can you fake it, for just one more show?
And what do you want?
I want to change
And what have you got, when you feel the same?

Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
All my cool and cold - like old job

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

Tell me I'm the only one
Tell me there's no other one
Jesus was the only son, yeah.
Tell me I'm the chosen one
Jesus was the only son for you

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
And someone will say what is lost can never be saved
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

Despite all my rage am I still just a rat in a-
Despite all my rage am I still just a rat in a-
Despite all my rage am I still just a rat in a cage

Tell me I'm the only one
Tell me there's no other one
Jesus was the only son for you

And I still believe that I cannot be saved

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I quickly slipped it into my trusty PS3, and started playing.


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post #1179 of 1464 Old 08-21-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

Come on panther,what are there about a dozen regular posters in this thread?

You want to see the Japanese get destroyed, never mind the AP site, go to the Yahoo forums in regards to this story.

It's probably just the "same" dozen posters (and their aliases) being the most vocal on Yahoo, as well. See how that logic works?

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post #1180 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Pro-terrorist vs anti terrorist.



How are you a "Moderator"? I ask because you only escalate things with your verbiage.
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post #1181 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WLGeter View Post

How are you a "Moderator"? I ask because you only escalate things with your verbiage.

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the HD presentation of Whale Wars. It's long been accepted that we're here to debate the contents of the show. Get over it.
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post #1182 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 06:32 AM
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Moderators just make sure the rules are followed. It doesn't mean we can't voice our opinion.

But that really isn't so much an opinion since it is basically how the Sea Shepherds' themselves define their intentions. They intend to terrorize the Japanese into stopping whaling. Why else would it be "a good thing" if they think "we're suicidal". The bigger issue is that they seek out and engage legally operating vessels and try to impose their own will on them with violent actions - that makes them the aggressors. When the victims of that aggression respond - even with the sinking of a vessel - it is self-defense. The Sea Shepherds can never claim self-defense any more than a burglar could when he's inside your house.
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post #1183 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I think if we are going to be intellectially honest, we all would have to admit that if all we have to go by is the Whale Wars footage, that the Ady Gil was deliberately ran over by the Shonan Maru II. With that said, it's hard to be very sympathetic with the Sea Shepards, since they were down there looking for trouble.

We finally got to see some action this week. Other than the ep where the Ady Gil got filet'd, this was one of the more action packed epidodes. Both sides have stepped it up this year. And now that the 2 'fleets' have engaged, things are little more exciting. I just hope the 2 hour season finally next week, stays as interesting.

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post #1184 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

I think if we are going to be intellectially honest, we all would have to admit that if all we have to go by is the Whale Wars footage, that the Ady Gil was deliberately ran over by the Shonan Maru II. With that said, it's hard to be very sympathetic with the Sea Shepards, since they were down there looking for trouble.

I said that right after the episode aired. I thought it was pretty clear that the SM II deliberately clipped the Ady Gil. But like someone else posted, you can't attack a boat in international waters then call a "Time Out" when you're done attacking and expect the other side to disengage. Under international maritime law, the Japanese had the right to try and disable the Ady Gil. If they are unable to disable their rudder, they should try to disable their engine room if they are equipped with weapons to do so - if not, they are free to sink any aggressive ship - legally.

They probably took off more of the Ady Gil than they intended, but it is still remarkable that they were able to completely disable the Ady Gil with no loss of life. The Sea Shepherds are fortunate that the Japanese were so considerate - and competent.
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post #1185 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 12:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

I said that right after the episode aired. I thought it was pretty clear that the SM II deliberately clipped the Ady Gil. But like someone else posted, you can't attack a boat in international waters then call a "Time Out" when you're done attacking and expect the other side to disengage. Under international maritime law, the Japanese had the right to try and disable the Ady Gil. If they are unable to disable their rudder, they should try to disable their engine room if they are equipped with weapons to do so - if not, they are free to sink any aggressive ship - legally.

They probably took off more of the Ady Gil than they intended, but it is still remarkable that they were able to completely disable the Ady Gil with no loss of life. The Sea Shepherds are fortunate that the Japanese were so considerate - and competent.

Now I know your only joking. If not, then you are blindly bias.
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post #1186 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

Now I know your only joking. If not, then you are blindly bias.

Biased? How were they not fortunate? If the Japanese hit that boat just 10 or 15 feet more towards the stern (very easy to do considering the size of the SM II), there likely would have been numerous casualties.

Now I guess it's possible that the SM II were trying to level the Ady Gil and kill everyone on board, and they just missed - but the footage from both sides show that they clearly didn't have that kind of perpendicular angle. If that was their intent, it would still have been legal for them to do so, but if their intent was anything less, then the Japanese exercised restraint - and for that, the Sea Shepherds are fortunate.
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post #1187 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 12:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Biased? How were they not fortunate? If the Japanese hit that boat just 10 or 15 feet more towards the stern (very easy to do considering the size of the SM II), there likely would have been numerous casualties.

Now I guess it's possible that the SM II were trying to level the Ady Gil and kill everyone on board, and they just missed - but the footage from both sides show that they clearly didn't have that kind of perpendicular angle. If that was their intent, it would still have been legal for them to do so, but if their intent was anything less, then the Japanese exercised restraint - and for that, the Sea Shepherds are fortunate.

Yeah, bias it is!
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post #1188 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 12:39 PM
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Yeah, bias it is!

Very convincing argument.

I'll take that as a concession.
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post #1189 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

Now I know your only joking. If not, then you are blindly bias.

You are hardly in a position to make that accusation upon anybody else here. Think about it.

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post #1190 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the HD presentation of Whale Wars. It's long been accepted that we're here to debate the contents of the show. Get over it.

Does it really matter that a Mod from another section escalates the disagreement rather than tone it down for furthering the discussions? Why yes it does matter and I'm over it thank-you. So I guess you can continue to call the SS "terrorist(s)" and then call their actions "violent" if it makes you think it enhances your argument. But it only weakens it.
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post #1191 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 02:41 PM
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If you have a problem with the moderation, PM me. Further complaining in the thread will be deleted. This thread is for discussing the show, and all members all welcome to do so.

As far as complaining about using the word "violent" to describe the SSers, I don't know how else to describe hunting down a vessel in the open ocean, firing projectiles at it, then ramming it. What would you call it - a friendship cruise?
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post #1192 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 04:12 PM
 
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Very convincing argument.

I'll take that as a concession.

Yes, the concession that you are biased since you admitted you were not joking, it is the only way to look at it.
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post #1193 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 04:20 PM
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Yes, the concession that you are biased since you admitted you were not joking, it is the only way to look at it.

Still no explanation of what is biased.
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post #1194 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 04:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

Now I know your only joking. If not, then you are blindly bias.

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Still no explanation of what is biased.

I already highlighted it for you, why do you keep asking. There is no one that believes that statement is true unless your a genuine Japanese kissa@s sympathizer which would translate to biased in my book.
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post #1195 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 05:21 PM
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You made a generalized statement that "no one" would believe it, but can't even explain why you do not believe it.
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post #1196 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 06:33 PM
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This is looking to get messy, the more Lodef attempts to explain himself.

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post #1197 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Lodef View Post

You can always ignore my posts. And just because You don't agree with my view you think I should be silenced. What a joke, you must be new to discussion forums.

Done. You can have the title "world wide web discussion forum savant." Congrats, now I'm deep sixing you.
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post #1198 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 08:25 PM
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Yep, Lodef, the SS guys look innocent alright. They keep running up under the Japanese vessels.

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post #1199 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 09:00 PM
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Show has been boring, when is that guy finally going to board the Jap ship?

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post #1200 of 1464 Old 08-22-2010, 09:22 PM
 
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Yep, Lodef, the SS guys look innocent alright. They keep running up under the Japanese vessels.

Who said they were innocent?

PS: They are doing what they believe they have to.
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