ABC O&O's destroy HD quality with launch of Live Well HD. - Page 12 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #331 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 07:33 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
^^^^
IMHO, it is four more subchannels than needed

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dattier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago IL, Northwest Side
Posts: 2,916
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 28
That's why I said "at least."
dattier is offline  
post #333 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 08:13 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Ya, but to me, all four of the live well channels are too many.

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
post #334 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 11:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

The ONLY way that a provider can have video quality better than OTA is if the station sends a high bitrate feed of each of the video streams they are airing before they go into the OTA encoders and mux. That might be happening in the very largest cities, but I doubt it.

It is, in some areas.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #335 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 11:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL1965 View Post

Guess what? Much ado about nothing at this point (when it comes to Scripps stations carrying the channel). Most of them have already been transmitting subchannels (usually weather subchannels, or in WXYZ's case RTV, or in WMAR's case an SD version of that station's main channel), and Scripps will simply replace whatever is currently airing on most if not all of the subchannels with LiveWell. The Scripps stations will likely transmit their LiveWell subchannels in letterboxed 4:3 SD (or perhaps 16:9 widescreen SD), not HD. The Belo stations' LiveWell subchannels are only SD, not HD.

This is the conclusion I (and Trip in VA) also came to, but until it happens I'm going to be a little nervous.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #336 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 12:57 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

It is, in some areas.

Which is why I posted that forum members need to post if they know for sure that a station, or stations, are providing high bitrate feeds to providers.

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
post #337 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 04:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coyoteaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
KUAS/KUAT (PBS) in Tucson, AZ, provides a 1080i fiber feed to local cable, while the OTA broadcasts are 720p (same feed on both) with 2 SD subchannels (PBS Kids/World on one, VMe/Create on the other). I know WUNC used to provide a better fiber feed to TWC in Raleigh back when they were doing HD only part time OTA, but I don't know how that works bitrate wise now that HD is full-time. Most other examples are in 100+ markets where some networks are SD-only over the air but an HD feed is given to the local cable provider, and even these are disappearing with the move to dual HD OTA broadcasts.
coyoteaz is offline  
post #338 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 05:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dattier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago IL, Northwest Side
Posts: 2,916
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Ya, but to me, all four of the live well channels are too many.

Again, that's why I said "at least three."
dattier is offline  
post #339 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 05:46 PM
Member
 
mjjckc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

KUAS/KUAT (PBS) in Tucson, AZ, provides a 1080i fiber feed to local cable, while the OTA broadcasts are 720p (same feed on both) with 2 SD subchannels (PBS Kids/World on one, VMe/Create on the other). I know WUNC used to provide a better fiber feed to TWC in Raleigh back when they were doing HD only part time OTA, but I don't know how that works bitrate wise now that HD is full-time. Most other examples are in 100+ markets where some networks are SD-only over the air but an HD feed is given to the local cable provider, and even these are disappearing with the move to dual HD OTA broadcasts.

This is true for KKFX, the Fox affiliate for the California's (southern) Central Coast. On cable or D* you have Fox network programming off the splicer and local HD syndication. OTA is a subchannel of CBS affiliate KCOY and an analog LP transmitter.

KDFX, the Fox for Palm Springs is also HD on cable only. Since Palm Springs is a Time Warner Cable market, I'm not sure if they would re-encode the Fox splicer signal though to rate shape the bandwidth down.
mjjckc is offline  
post #340 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 05:47 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

KUAS/KUAT (PBS) in Tucson, AZ, provides a 1080i fiber feed to local cable, while the OTA broadcasts are 720p (same feed on both) with 2 SD subchannels (PBS Kids/World on one, VMe/Create on the other).

Having a fiber feed to the provider, from a station, doesn't necessarily mean that a higher bitrate is also provided. I know there are stations here that provide fiber connections, AFAIK, it is the output from the mux. I'll have to ask around and find out for sure.

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
post #341 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 05:49 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Again, that's why I said "at least three."

To me, that means there is still at least one subchannel containing that live well thing. Which, IMHO, is still one too many subchannels.

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
post #342 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 05:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dattier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago IL, Northwest Side
Posts: 2,916
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

To me, that means there is still at least one subchannel containing that live well thing. Which, IMHO, is still one too many subchannels.

Thrid time: fouir channels of LiveWell are, as I said, "at least three more than needed."  And you wonder why we poke fun at cheeseheads.  Can't even tell you we're agreeing with you ...
dattier is offline  
post #343 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 06:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rammitinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 17,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I think he'd prefer to be called a BUDhead.
Rammitinski is offline  
post #344 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 06:07 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I think he'd prefer to be called a BUDhead.

'Tis very true, which is probably why I'm reading it differently than it is apparently supposed to be interpreted by the author.

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
post #345 of 354 Old 05-27-2011, 07:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
icemannyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 4,420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Plus on some stations in addition to the HD and SD sub channels you have a mobile DTV feed taking even more bandwidth away.
icemannyr is offline  
post #346 of 354 Old 05-28-2011, 07:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dattier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago IL, Northwest Side
Posts: 2,916
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Actually, MrVideo and I have been acquainted over the net for some time now.  Our earliest significant exchange that I remember was about the announced TV schedule for the autumn of 1995, which would have put it just over sixteen years ago,
dattier is offline  
post #347 of 354 Old 05-29-2011, 12:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rammitinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 17,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I didn't think you guys were serious.
Rammitinski is offline  
post #348 of 354 Old 05-29-2011, 09:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
Desert Hawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bakersfield California
Posts: 979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think ABC has lowered the quality of their national feed. The HD quality of ABC programming on KERO Bakersfield dropped about a year or so ago, long before they fired up their -3 subchannel (Cool TV). The quality did not noticeably drop when the subchannel was added. I think ABC is lowering the quality of their feed so stations will figure that they might as well add LiveWell. As for Bakersfield, they could not add Live Well and still have the other 2 subchannels. I would like to see them flip co-owned KZKC-LP Azteca to digital and put LiveWell in HD on it's subchannel. If Azteca ever goes HD they could run 2 720p's on LP42. Then kill the Azteca simulcast on KERO and give the bandwidth to CoolTV, which is bandwidth starved now. No use giving the bandwidth to ABC HD since the network has lowered the quality. I doubt they would kill the Azteca simulcast, though, since every station in town wants to simulcast co-owned LPs, even digital ones, on subchannels of the full power station in order to reach the outlying areas of the DMA.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
Desert Hawk is offline  
post #349 of 354 Old 05-29-2011, 11:14 PM
Senior Member
 
charlie460's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've seen ABC from a variety of sources (different stations, different sources [OTA/satellite/cable]) and I think ABC has the worst HD picture of the major networks.
charlie460 is offline  
post #350 of 354 Old 05-29-2011, 11:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coyoteaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
They may have allocated the bandwidth without actually using it for anything. KERA (PBS) here in Dallas has been running their HD channel at about 11Mb/s since before I moved here, despite the fact that they only have 1 SD subchannel taking up about 2.5Mb/s (and had none at all back then), with the rest simply being wasted on nullpackets. The video looks like crap whenever there's motion, but apparently no one outside of AVS cares about PQ.
coyoteaz is offline  
post #351 of 354 Old 05-31-2011, 02:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mx6bfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Delray Beach, FL
Posts: 6,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

WLS, the ABC O&O in Chicago, does the same thing.* Since it broadcasts on two frequencies -- RF7 and RF44 (supposedly RF7 is temporary but there's no end in sight) -- we actually have LiveWell on four subchannels, which are at least three more than needed.

So are there 2 Live Well's on each channel, 7 and 44? Are 2 English and then the other 2 the same language? Or all 4 different languages?

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
8/9 PM ET
TUESDAY!
NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mx6bfast is offline  
post #352 of 354 Old 05-31-2011, 03:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rammitinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 17,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

So are there 2 Live Well's on each channel, 7 and 44? Are 2 English and then the other 2 the same language? Or all 4 different languages?

They all have the same, English-language soundtrack.

Still, they ain't half as bad as WCIU and all their mirrored subchannels on various frequencies here.
Rammitinski is offline  
post #353 of 354 Old 05-31-2011, 08:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mx6bfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Delray Beach, FL
Posts: 6,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

They all have the same, English-language soundtrack.

Still, they ain't half as bad as WCIU and all their mirrored subchannels on various frequencies here.

Stupid.

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
8/9 PM ET
TUESDAY!
NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mx6bfast is offline  
post #354 of 354 Old 06-07-2011, 09:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
LithOTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Posts: 948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think it is possible that ABC has watered things down. I get 4 ABCs via OTA and they run the gambit subchannel-wise; WLS has Livewell HD and SD, WKOW has 2 SDs, WTVO has 1 SD, and WISN is unencumbered. During the Indy 500, WISN did not look as good as it did last year, as there were gray tiles along the edges of the track during in-car camera shots. As I switched between the ABCs, the others did not look like they were worse than WISN. The NBA Finals, however, do look noticably better on WISN.

My RabbitEars reception page-

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LithOTA is offline  
post #355 of 354 Old 06-07-2011, 09:52 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
mrvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

I think it is possible that ABC has watered things down.

Believe me when I say they haven't. The network feed is H.264 @ 23.5 Mbps. That works out to MPEG-2 @ ~47 Mbps and H.264 is a better encoder than MPEG-2.

Their old MPEG-2 feeds were no better than ~40 Mbps.

There are no mosquito errors with their feeds.

"What do you say Beckett. Wanna have a baby?" - Castle to Det. Beckett
"How Long have I been gone?" Alexis after arriving home and seeing Castle and Beckett w/ the baby - Castle - 11/25/13
Mr. Video

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mrvideo is offline  
Reply HDTV Programming

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off