Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV! - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1771 Old 10-22-2011, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bruin95 View Post

Either that or too cheap. I'm willing to bet the latter.

I concur. They know exactly what they're doing: collecting additional retransmission fees for an HD channel they spent nearly nothing on.
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post #1082 of 1771 Old 10-24-2011, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

judging from how good a DVD can look upconverted on my TV, I have no doubt that an upconvert on their end would look as good or better than that and be very close to some of the overly compressed HD some channels pass along. Until I see something official, I'll assume that's what they're still doing.

I've recorded hundreds of films off of TCM-HD and the quality of my own up-converted DVD-R is more than sufficient when it comes to the older black and white classics and technicolor prints. Films like "Lawrence Of Arabia" and "Dr. Zhivago", of course, can't compare to their DVD or Bluray counterparts and not be dubbed by the serious collector.
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post #1083 of 1771 Old 10-25-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

People continually say they are not really broadcasting in HD, but I think sometimes they are.

Nope. No real HD, just some very good upconverts from time to time.
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post #1084 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 04:42 AM
 
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There's no such thing as a "good upconvert."
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post #1085 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiontail60 View Post

There's no such thing as a "good upconvert."

Sure there is. In fact, a good upconvert can outshine bad HD. Further, an upconvert from the source beats overly compressed mud on the SD channel you have to upconvert yourself (which if you're watching it on an HD set, that's what you're doing without thinking about it).

It's just that HD is usually better.

The fact is, though, upconverting normally doesn't hurt the image in any way. Nothing is lost. It's not like cropping or stretching that has an adverse affect on the presentation.
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post #1086 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Sure there is. In fact, a good upconvert can outshine bad HD. Further, an upconvert from the source beats overly compressed mud on the SD channel you have to upconvert yourself (which if you're watching it on an HD set, that's what you're doing without thinking about it).

It's just that HD is usually better.

The fact is, though, upconverting normally doesn't hurt the image in any way. Nothing is lost. It's not like cropping or stretching that has an adverse affect on the presentation.

I mostly agree. Although I have never seen an upconverted DVD's 480p image I thought was as good as or better than even a bad 720p or 1080i HD TV transmission, I agree that upconversion works well and looks very good.
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post #1087 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I mostly agree. Although I have never seen an upconverted DVD's 480p image I thought was as good as or better than even a bad 720p or 1080i HD TV transmission, I agree that upconversion works well and looks very good.

Have you never played a DVD on your HD set? If so, your TV upconverted it for you to its native resolution. Otherwise, it would be a little box in the middle of your screen even smaller than the window-boxing you get with a non-anamorphic wide screen DVD.
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post #1088 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Have you never played a DVD on your HD set? If so, your TV upconverted it for you to its native resolution. Otherwise, it would be a little box in the middle of your screen even smaller than the window-boxing you get with a non-anamorphic wide screen DVD.

Actually, I have a choice of three devices to use for upconversion, a PS3, AV receiver, and the TV. I bought my first upconverting DVD player, a Momitsu, almost 8 years ago. Speaking of small images in the middle of the screen, some older non anamorphic DVDs look that way on an HD display no matter what you do.
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post #1089 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Speaking of small images in the middle of the screen, some older non anamorphic DVDs look that way on an HD display no matter what you do.

Right, that's the windowboxing I was referring to. If the TV didn't upconvert the image to its native resolution, it would be even smaller. Upconverting will only match the vertical resolution, including any black bars that you get with non-anamorphic DVDs. So, even upconverted, those titles would still be windowboxed, but the edges of the black letterboxing would reach the top and bottom of the screen. Short of using available controls to blow up the image more, there's nothing more that can be down. However, 16x9 anamorphic DVDs would be upconverted to fill the screen, rather than show a postage stamp in the center. Your TV can only display one resolution. Everything else gets re-sized to that.

What I was getting at is, you don't need an upconverting player. The TV is actually doing it for you, though the more correct term would be "scaling". The differences, the players that do it line-double to avoid simply blowing the image up.

With a good processing chip, like a Reon or Faroudja, it can look really good, especially on a 720p set. The only down side is pausing the image can sometimes show aliasing from the line doubling process, depending on the player.
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post #1090 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

The fact is, though, upconverting normally doesn't hurt the image in any way. Nothing is lost. It's not like cropping or stretching that has an adverse affect on the presentation.

Some upconversions sharpen the image after it's been mapped to the higher resolution. You could argue that it harms the image since there's no way to remove the sharpening halos afterwards.

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post #1091 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by scowl View Post

Some upconversions sharpen the image after it's been mapped to the higher resolution. You could argue that it harms the image since there's no way to remove the sharpening halos afterwards.

Yes, but I haven't seen anyone complaining about that sort of thing here.

The only complaints are that they have an HD channel with zero HD...and rightfully so. As a result, I don't blame D* for not wanting to spring for the channel as it is. Having said that, if it were to appear suddenly, I wouldn't keep watching the SD version out of any sort of protest...
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post #1092 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 02:19 PM
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Right - and I know you're not talking about the badly-done upconversions.

I believe a lot of people have been conditioned to the degradation of "HD" so slowly (not necessarily anyone here - otherwise they probably wouldn't be complaining about the thing they are), that they don't even remember what a really exceptional SD picture could look like. That's assuming they've ever seen it in the first place, of course.

The Reon (/Realta)/Faroudja comment is spot on. I can clearly remember a few years back seeing images using Denon and Marantz DVD players with Silicon Optix chips, from the more exceptional-quality SD-DVDs's to begin with, that blow away the faux HD, that really looks more like widescreen, average-quality SD-DVD, on my TV from most of the local broadcast channels here nowadays.

Honestly, I think that as long as it's on a bigger, widescreen television screen, and kept clear and sharp enough, the majority of people are wowed by that nowadays more than anything else. Nevermind if it doesn't show as much fine detail as it could.
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post #1093 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Yes, but I haven't seen anyone complaining about that sort of thing here.

And that may be the problem in getting them to move forward. Even with no HD, TCM HD looks miles better than the SD version.

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post #1094 of 1771 Old 10-26-2011, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I believe a lot of people have been conditioned to the degradation of "HD" so slowly (not necessarily anyone here - otherwise they probably wouldn't be complaining about the thing they are), that they don't even remember what a really exceptional SD picture could look like. That's assuming they've ever seen it in the first place, of course.

Agree.

I've been wowed by good SD just recently. The CBC affiliate in Windsor, ON, CBET-DT, went on the air with digital on 9/1. The network is having automation software issues, so for now in primetime they only pass SD. Having seen CBC HD in the distant past when they first went HD in 2003 (via Bell ExpressVu), and having endured the abysmal analog SD that the local cableco Comcast offered, it's actually been a pleasure to watch an ATSC SD digital signal. It looks really good.

Having said that, when they pass HD in the AM and afternoons, it looks dramatically better.

Quote:


Honestly, I think that as long as it's on a bigger, widescreen television screen, and kept clear and sharp enough, the majority of people are wowed by that nowadays more than anything else. Nevermind if it doesn't show as much fine detail as it could.

Agree.

Another way I was reminded of the same lesson, was by watching an On Demand movie in HD on Comcast, The Longest Day. I've seen this movie on TCM HD a number of times, and always thought it looked pretty good. After watching a real HD transfer, I was completely blown away with the detail on the excellent B/W print that was used. It was a different, vastly better, experience watching in HD.

Speaking for myself, I think I've been conditioned by decades of NTSC. When I see anything better, my eyes are elated. I wonder why Fox Widescreen didn't look like much to me?

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post #1095 of 1771 Old 11-06-2011, 12:49 PM
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I've just compared today's TCM-"HD" broadcast of "The Haunting" to my previous file from HDNET and TCM's still lagging.

Everything about it [A.R., etc] looks the same, just not quite the same amount of fine detail as the HDNET showing.
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post #1096 of 1771 Old 11-06-2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Solfan View Post

I've just compared today's TCM-"HD" broadcast of "The Haunting" to my previous file from HDNET and TCM's still lagging.

Everything about it [A.R., etc] looks the same, just not quite the same amount of fine detail as the HDNET showing.

I'm not sure why you would think that the TCM broadcast, which is just an upconvert, would have the same detail as an actual HD broadcast.
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post #1097 of 1771 Old 11-06-2011, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bruin95 View Post

I'm not sure why you would think that the TCM broadcast, which is just an upconvert, would have the same detail as an actual HD broadcast.

Exactly, they don't air anything in reall HD yet.
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post #1098 of 1771 Old 11-06-2011, 05:05 PM
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I kinda had a feeling they might switch the HD on, seeing how magnificent "Underworld USA" and some others look.

I was one of the first AVS addicts in N.J. to acquire a DTC-100 way back when . . . I saw a ton of broadcasters having a very bumpy ride. I can wait a bit longer for TCM.

It ain't gonna be all upconverts forever.
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post #1099 of 1771 Old 11-06-2011, 06:07 PM
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It ain't gonna be all upconverts forever.

I wouldn't count on that. There are no laws that say TCM has to show HD content. It's about the almighty dollar, and TCM seems to be unwilling to spend the money.
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post #1100 of 1771 Old 11-06-2011, 06:13 PM
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As long as they don't plan to tamper with anything on TCM (OAR, commercial-free, uncut, uncensored, almost no bug, etc.) I'm very, very happy about this. Any tampering and it could be the end of a very great thing.

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post #1101 of 1771 Old 11-07-2011, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Doh4Eev2tae View Post

As long as they don't plan to tamper with anything on TCM (OAR, commercial-free, uncut, uncensored, almost no bug, etc.) I'm very, very happy about this. Any tampering and it could be the end of a very great thing.


Yes, that is what I am worried about most. AMC has ruined it with it's commerical interuptions and censorship. Universal HD used to be a joy until they started with commercials, as did the Independent Film Channel. Though FOX Movie Channel does no commercial or censorship editing, it's standard definition broadcast often makes viewing of great technicolor and cinemascope films almost unbearable.

Keep TCM comerical free at all costs - even if it means not having actual HD transfers but good prints upconverted to 1080i.
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post #1102 of 1771 Old 11-25-2011, 03:14 PM
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Anyone else get the mailing mentioned in this post? I wonder if it's nationwide for Comcast(to move TCM from Digital starter to Digital preferred 1/5/12) or if it's just a local thing....
This sounds bad but I wonder how this will effect people with MDTAs(currently I get TCM via a MDTA on analog 41) wonder if this will cease 1/5/12
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post #1103 of 1771 Old 12-01-2011, 04:45 AM
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^^^I can't believe more of you aren't complaining about this it's been verified by several friends in my market, TCM is basically gone or will go shortly for basic($75-$80) cable subscribers isn't this effecting many other people or markets? Thanks Comcast
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post #1104 of 1771 Old 12-01-2011, 09:51 AM
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When I switched to FiOS I noticed it was gone. No much of a loss give the lack of HD content.
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post #1105 of 1771 Old 12-01-2011, 10:00 AM
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If TCM was a PREMIUM channel, maybe we would have HD content by now.
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post #1106 of 1771 Old 12-01-2011, 03:54 PM
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TV Notes
Stanley Kubrick's 'Fear and Desire' premieres on TCM
By Jeff Labrecque, EW.com's 'Inside TV' Blog - December 1st, 2011

Fear and Desire, the 1953 debut film of a young Look magazine photographer named Stanley Kubrick, will have its world television premiere on Turner Classics Movies on Dec. 14 at 8 p.m. Starring Frank Silvera, Paul Mazursky, and Kenneth Harp, Fear and Desire is an existential anti-war drama about a lost platoon whose journey to safety is complicated by an encounter with a mysterious woman.

Kubrick, who shot the film quickly with a crew of about 15 people, was never especially proud of his maiden effort, calling it a “a bumbling amateur film exercise.” It quickly disappeared from theaters despite some critical accolades, and when Kubrick became famous for films like 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) and A Clockwork Orange (1971), he gathered up prints of the film in order to prevent future viewings. Fear and Desire received its first retrospective screening at the 1993 Telluride Film Festival and has only been presented a few times since, according to TCM.

The special showing is part of TCM’s 24-hour marathon honoring the preservation efforts of the Motion Picture Department at George Eastman House. TCM host Robert Osborne will present 15 cinematic rarities, including a silent version of Huckleberry Finn (1920), the first film adaptation of Mark Twain’s classic.

For the complete schedule for TCM’s salute to the Motion Picture Collection at George Eastman House, see below:

6:15 a.m. The Blue Bird (1918)
7:45 a.m. The Valiant (1929)
9 a.m. The Spanish Earth (1937)
10 a.m. The Trespasser (1929)
11:45 a.m. The Moon and Sixpence (1942)
1:30 p.m. The Lottery Bride (1930)
3 p.m. A Page of Madness (1926)
4:30 p.m. Delicious (1931)
6:30 p.m. Payment Deferred (1932)
8:00 p.m. Fear and Desire (1953)
9:15 p.m. Huckleberry Finn (1920)
11 p.m. Pandora and the Flying Dutchman (1951)
1:15 a.m. Roaring Rails (1924)
2:45 a.m. The World Moves On (1934)
4:45 a.m. Goldstein (1965)


http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/01/st...mieres-on-tcm/
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post #1107 of 1771 Old 12-01-2011, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLIVE View Post

When I switched to FiOS I noticed it was gone. No much of a loss give the lack of HD content.

Considering the fact that a lot of the channel's content can't be seen elsewhere, it's certainly a big loss for those who can't afford to get a higher level programming package, regardless of whether it's in HD or not.
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post #1108 of 1771 Old 12-02-2011, 02:57 AM
 
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What does TCM offer that's not available on DVD or VHS?
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post #1109 of 1771 Old 12-02-2011, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpiontail60 View Post

What does TCM offer that's not available on DVD or VHS?

Nothing that I know except it's FREE.
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post #1110 of 1771 Old 12-02-2011, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

^^^I can't believe more of you aren't complaining about this it's been verified by several friends in my market, TCM is basically gone or will go shortly for basic($75-$80) cable subscribers isn't this effecting many other people or markets? Thanks Comcast

Basic cable is $80 in your area?

Have you looked into any of these triple package deals the cable companies offer? Or maybe Fios or Satellite?
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