Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1849 Old 06-13-2009, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

That's what I do. Even though TCM is not yet HD, the 480i quality of their prints is excellent. Films are first stored on my HD-DVR and for 25 cents two movies (three if they are very short) are then dubbed onto a DVD-R with excellent results.

I've got a few of these t0o, but any time such a movie is actually released on DVD, I'd rather buy or rent it, if I want to watch it. The homemade copy from a broadcast gets recycled. The difference on a big 1080p screen is quite worth the 99 cents or whatever the per movie cost of Netflix is.
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I'd be broke if I tried to amass the collection I already have by purchasing individual DVDs.

Agreed. Lucky thing Netflix can deliver essentially overnight! And for those movies I have to have available immediately, I'll suck it up and buy it.
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Of course, dubbing is fine even for color films like "Bandwagon", "Bells Are Ringing", "Bundle of Joy", etc. but for epics like "Ben Hur", "Dr. Zhivago", "Lawrence of Arabia" or remastered versions of "The Searchers", "Forbidden Planet" etc. DVD is of course the best way to go.

If you are a fan, you should pick up a rental of the Searchers on Blu-ray. Astounding.
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Regarding bluray, older films are still only upconverted to 1080i and not truly HD. With that in mind, opt for the DVD version or do what I do and dub onto DVD-R.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but there is lots more detail and resolution and much better grayscale and contrast on, for example, the Blu-ray of The Third Man than there is on DVD. And the DVD is notably better than what gets broadcast on TCM. (I would expect the TCM-HD broadcast to be better than the DVD, but fall obviously short of the Blu-ray.)

I don't mean to denigrate your approach. I accept that funds and accessibility are limited, and these can restrict our choices for what to watch.

And in some cases, good enough is good enough. For example, I don't mind listening to MP3s in my car, because the road noise makes anything of higher fidelity a waste.

But if there is a good environment to watch and listen on, and there is a better source to be had, the effort is worthwhile, imo.

I remain optimistic that TCM-HD will be a frequently watched channel in my home.

Now, if only someone actually offered it!

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post #92 of 1849 Old 06-13-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Regarding bluray, older films are still only upconverted to 1080i and not truly HD. With that in mind, opt for the DVD version or do what I do and dub onto DVD-R.

I'm not certain what you're saying here, but it sounds incorrect. Every Blu Ray release should be in 1080p format. Since the original film source is higher resolution than even 1080p, any film print rescanned for Blu Ray will benefit fully from the new presentation as if it were originally shot in HD.
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post #93 of 1849 Old 06-13-2009, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Regarding bluray, older films are still only upconverted to 1080i and not truly HD.


WOW. You couldn't be more wrong.
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post #94 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 06:45 AM
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blu-ray and dvd will both be dead in a few years
with 100 Mbps internet connetions to the home becoming reality
consumers will be able download 1080p movies in minutes
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post #95 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I've got a few of these t0o, but any time such a movie is actually released on DVD, I'd rather buy or rent it, if I want to watch it. The homemade copy from a broadcast gets recycled. The difference on a big 1080p screen is quite worth the 99 cents or whatever the per movie cost of Netflix is.
Agreed. Lucky thing Netflix can deliver essentially overnight! And for those movies I have to have available immediately, I'll suck it up and buy it.If you are a fan, you should pick up a rental of the Searchers on Blu-ray. Astounding. I'm not sure what you mean here, but there is lots more detail and resolution and much better grayscale and contrast on, for example, the Blu-ray of The Third Man than there is on DVD. And the DVD is notably better than what gets broadcast on TCM. (I would expect the TCM-HD broadcast to be better than the DVD, but fall obviously short of the Blu-ray.)

I don't mean to denigrate your approach. I accept that funds and accessibility are limited, and these can restrict our choices for what to watch.

And in some cases, good enough is good enough. For example, I don't mind listening to MP3s in my car, because the road noise makes anything of higher fidelity a waste.

But if there is a good environment to watch and listen on, and there is a better source to be had, the effort is worthwhile, imo.

I remain optimistic that TCM-HD will be a frequently watched channel in my home.

Now, if only someone actually offered it!

I use Netflix and I love it, but TCM has many movies that Netflix doesn't have. In a lot of cases they have movies that were never released on DVD.
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post #96 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 09:05 AM
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Not knocking your post, just want to point out...
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Originally Posted by dm145 View Post

blu-ray and dvd will both be dead in a few years
with 100 Mbps internet connetions to the home becoming reality
consumers will be able download 1080p movies in minutes

...And Im sure the provider will be charging accordingly (same or more than if you bought a BR) and who's to say that the 100Mbps path will not be clogged with tons of compressed crap?

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post #97 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

I use Netflix and I love it, but TCM has many movies that Netflix doesn't have. In a lot of cases they have movies that were never released on DVD.

Yep, that's very true. Every year or so I go through my discs that I recorded off of TCM, and throw away the ones that are now available in much better versions on newly released DVDs.

For example, that is what I did when the Marx Bros movies and the Busby Berkeley movies finally started showing up on DVD. I didn't realize how bad the TCM versions were, until the DVD's showed up!

But there are still many movies that haven't appeared on DVD.

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Originally Posted by dm145 View Post

blu-ray and dvd will both be dead in a few years
with 100 Mbps internet connetions to the home becoming reality
consumers will be able download 1080p movies in minutes

I love the idea of being able to download Blu-ray quality movies. But they have a few hurdles:

1. The quality is not there, and may never be. Not because the bandwidth isn't available but it will always be cheaper for providers to serve up lower bit rates.

2. Usage caps are becoming commonplace, so downloading big stuff may become more pricey.

3. You don't know when a movie will disappear from the service. I see this each time I look at my Netflix streaming queue. There are always a few movies they are losing the rights to stream in the near future.

4. Speaking of Netflix -- if it's not an "all you can eat" model, it's not going to be a successful rental system. I'd pay a premium for top quality and day and date releases, but I'm in the minority. And I wouldn't pay extra for catalog titles.

5. I'm never going to buy something I cannot re-sell. Or loan to my friend to watch. Or buy a used copy of, on the cheap. Downloads won't work for purchases.

And so on.

Not that I don't think it could succeed. It could. But the technology has been here for several years, and so far the industry hasn't figured out a business model that the market (you and I) wants.

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post #98 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

For example, that is what I did when the Marx Bros movies and the Busby Berkeley movies finally started showing up on DVD. I didn't realize how bad the TCM versions were, until the DVD's showed up!

It's not that the TCM versions were bad, it's the overcompressed SD images your TV provider is giving you that are bad. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about that.

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I love the idea of being able to download Blu-ray quality movies. But they have a few hurdles:

2. Usage caps are becoming commonplace, so downloading big stuff may become more pricey.

Commonplace? The only provider that I know of that has download caps is Comcast. TWC tried to impliment such a restriction, but abandoned the whole thing after outrage from it's customers in the test markets.
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post #99 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post


Regarding bluray, older films are still only upconverted to 1080i and not truly HD.

?

This is completely wrong. 1080i, 720p, 1080p are all 'truly' HD.

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post #100 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

I'm not certain what you're saying here, but it sounds incorrect. Every Blu Ray release should be in 1080p format. Since the original film source is higher resolution than even 1080p, any film print rescanned for Blu Ray will benefit fully from the new presentation as if it were originally shot in HD.

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Originally Posted by bruin95 View Post

WOW. You couldn't be more wrong.

Yeah guys, just realized I used upconversion to 1080p as an example which, of course, is not the same as re-mastered original elements output in 1080p. Very embarrased.

I was just questioning how much better older films would appear on bluray since owners in other AVS forums have expressed disappointment in the little difference between those and the DVD versions. Also is the fact that excellent re-mastering can be achieved even at 480p as demonstrated with classics like the original King Kong and silent films remastered by Kino.

So I don't know if there would be a big rush to get these old titles onto bluray or that consumers would find the differences worth the extra ten dollars or so except for maybe the extra features.
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post #101 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

I use Netflix and I love it, but TCM has many movies that Netflix doesn't have. In a lot of cases they have movies that were never released on DVD.

Oh, so true. And of those, there's many that haven't been shown on TCM for years like Madam Satin and Svengali (which was remastered beautifully by Ronin but is now out of production and now the cheap Alpha Video version is the only other DVD version available). I recorded both on VHS and just might have to dub those copies onto DVD-R.
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post #102 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post


So I don't know if there would be a big rush to get these old titles onto bluray or that consumers would find the differences worth the extra ten dollars or so except for maybe the extra features.

The only extra features I'm interested in is picture and audio quality. If it's better, then I'm in.

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post #103 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

The homemade copy from a broadcast gets recycled. The difference on a big 1080p screen is quite worth the 99 cents or whatever the per movie cost of Netflix is.

And in some cases, good enough is good enough. For example, I don't mind listening to MP3s in my car, because the road noise makes anything of higher fidelity a waste.

But if there is a good environment to watch and listen on, and there is a better source to be had, the effort is worthwhile, imo.

For me, the home-made copies aren't so bad for as you've said "good enough is good enough". We have a good digital feed. Another small enhancement is the use of a S-Video instead of a RCA cable between the DVR and DVD recorder.

Equipment is the big factor as there can be big differences in picture quality between DVD recorders and monitors. I returned a Toshiba recorder which pales in comparision to the Panasonic unit that replaced it. I also own the highly rated Sony KD34XBR960, a 34 inch HD-CRT which has an excellent line doubler which many owners (in another AVS forum) prefer using over an upconverting player.

Of course, anyone who wants to own the titles I mentioned before along with other epics should definately buy the DVD version. But for "Follow the Fleet", etc., dubbing off TCM is fine enough.
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post #104 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

For me, the home-made copies aren't so bad for as you've said "good enough is good enough". We have a good digital feed. Another small enhancement is the use of a S-Video instead of a RCA cable between the DVR and DVD recorder.

Equipment is the big factor as there can be big differences in picture quality between DVD recorders and monitors. I returned a Toshiba recorder which pales in comparision to the Panasonic unit that replaced it. I also own the highly rated Sony KD34XBR960, a 34 inch HD-CRT which has an excellent line doubler which many owners (in another AVS forum) prefer using over an upconverting player.

Of course, anyone who wants to own the titles I mentioned before along with other epics should definately buy the DVD version. But for "Follow the Fleet", etc., dubbing off TCM is fine enough.

This is an HDTV forum. Please keep on topic.

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post #105 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

For me, the home-made copies aren't so bad for as you've said "good enough is good enough". We have a good digital feed. Another small enhancement is the use of a S-Video instead of a RCA cable between the DVR and DVD recorder.

Equipment is the big factor as there can be big differences in picture quality between DVD recorders and monitors. I returned a Toshiba recorder which pales in comparision to the Panasonic unit that replaced it. I also own the highly rated Sony KD34XBR960, a 34 inch HD-CRT which has an excellent line doubler which many owners (in another AVS forum) prefer using over an upconverting player.

Of course, anyone who wants to own the titles I mentioned before along with other epics should definately buy the DVD version. But for "Follow the Fleet", etc., dubbing off TCM is fine enough.

The best way to do it is to have a PC that can use a cable card (assuming you have cable). You can then record directly to your PC's hard drive and then get it onto a DVD with the exact same quality that it was broadcast to you. No time consuming dubbing with analog devices that compromise quality.

With external hard drives being so cheap these days, I just record to the PC and save it on the external drive. I don't even burn DVD's anymore. Now, if it's not possible to hook your TV up to your computer, you have no choice but to use DVD's. I have tons of HD (and SD for that matter) recordings stored on external drives and can play back on my Pio Elite anytime I want with no hassles. It's way better than having to store all those DVD's you may never even watch again.
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post #106 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bruin95 View Post

The best way to do it is to have a PC that can use a cable card (assuming you have cable). You can then record directly to your PC's hard drive and then get it onto a DVD with the exact same quality that it was broadcast to you. No time consuming dubbing with analog devices that compromise quality.

With external hard drives being so cheap these days, I just record to the PC and save it on the external drive. I don't even burn DVD's anymore. Now, if it's not possible to hook your TV up to your computer, you have no choice but to use DVD's. I have tons of HD (and SD for that matter) recordings stored on external drives and can play back on my Pio Elite anytime I want with no hassles. It's way better than having to store all those DVD's you may never even watch again.

This is an HDTV forum. Please keep on topic. Further off topic comments will be deleted.

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post #107 of 1849 Old 06-14-2009, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

This is an HDTV forum. Please keep on topic.

Ken,

My apologies. The question was raised about whether TCM going HD would mean more "classic" titles being released in bluray and I guess we got sidetracked a little.

- Joe
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post #108 of 1849 Old 06-15-2009, 08:22 PM
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Spoke to a Charter cable rep in their programming department today who confimed that TCM is indeed doing a HD channel,and they are in negotiations to carry it. She also confirmed that if added, it will not be at additional charge if you already get the SD version.
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post #109 of 1849 Old 06-15-2009, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Yeah guys, just realized I used upconversion to 1080p as an example which, of course, is not the same as re-mastered original elements output in 1080p. Very embarrased.

I was just questioning how much better older films would appear on bluray since owners in other AVS forums have expressed disappointment in the little difference between those and the DVD versions. Also is the fact that excellent re-mastering can be achieved even at 480p as demonstrated with classics like the original King Kong and silent films remastered by Kino.

So I don't know if there would be a big rush to get these old titles onto bluray or that consumers would find the differences worth the extra ten dollars or so except for maybe the extra features.


Why do you base your opinions on what others say? There are have been some great transfers of older movies done on Blu-ray. How The West Was Won, South Pacific and The Adventures of Robin Hood just to name three.

Here are the DVD and Blu-ray screen cap comparisons:

The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938):
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...od_blu-ray.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1039608

South Pacific (1958):
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...ic_blu-ray.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1135505

How The West Was Won (1962):
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...on_blu-ray.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1067722

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post #110 of 1849 Old 06-16-2009, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Soundmaster10.2 View Post

Why do you base your opinions on what others say? There are have been some great transfers of older movies done on Blu-ray. How The West Was Won, South Pacific and The Adventures of Robin Hood just to name three.

Here are the DVD and Blu-ray screen cap comparisons:

The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938):
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...od_blu-ray.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1039608

South Pacific (1958):
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...ic_blu-ray.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1135505

How The West Was Won (1962):
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...on_blu-ray.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1067722


Of course,but I was talking in general terms, not about blockbusters and those earlier technicolor epics. For example, the old black and white silents from Kino appear pristine in standard definition. So does the remastered James Bond series.

..... But I think we've been kindly asked to cease talking about this subject because it's getting off topic. Let's continue the discussion by private email.
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post #111 of 1849 Old 06-16-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyp007 View Post

Spoke to a Charter cable rep in their programming department today who confimed that TCM is indeed doing a HD channel,and they are in negotiations to carry it. She also confirmed that if added, it will not be at additional charge if you already get the SD version.

This is good news. If Charter's getting on board so quickly, there's hope Comcast will too.
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post #112 of 1849 Old 06-17-2009, 11:27 PM
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Comcast will add TCM HD in King County, WA on 7/21.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...6&d=1245268582

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post #113 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 07:58 AM
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Any hope for Time Warner?
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post #114 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 08:39 AM
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I was going to add a 250GB or 500GB EHD to my Dish receiver. If Dish gets this channel it will be a 1TB drive no question.

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post #115 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 07:45 PM
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Very good thread guys; keep it up. At 73 years of ago, and always a movie buff, I will really appreciate the better PQ that HD should provide. I am surprised, and delighted, at
the interst and participation in this thread. There is no way I can get my wife, kids or grandkids to watch anything in black and white. Pity they will never know what they are missing.

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post #116 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 09:10 PM
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Comcast will add TCM HD in King County, WA on 7/21.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...6&d=1245268582

Awesome. Glad to see something in print, in public.

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post #117 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 09:22 PM
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Had dinner with one of my friends at TCM last night. He was very excited about the HD rollout. As you would expect, he said they're in the midst of setting up as many carriage agreements as they can. Some things he passed along:

- Cablevision was indeed the first to pick up the channel.
- Time Warner has already signed to carry the channel in some small markets.
- The good news: EVERYTHING WILL BE SHOWN IT ITS ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO. No stretching. No cropping. No exceptions.
- The bad news: For right now, everything is being upconverted, rather than being shown in native HD. This is temporary (a year or two?) and as my friend pointed out (and has been discussed here) the material still looks worlds better than it does on the SD channel.
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post #118 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 10:30 PM
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That's great news, thanks Tybee for the report!

Atlanta over-the-air digital TV reference table, now with Atlanta OTA FAQ:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16732147
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post #119 of 1849 Old 06-18-2009, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee View Post

The bad news: For right now, everything is being upconverted, rather than being shown in native HD. This is temporary (a year or two?) and as my friend pointed out (and has been discussed here) the material still looks worlds better than it does on the SD channel.

Fortunately, many of the WB, RKO and MGM titles are already on DVD and re-mastered for 480p and some like "The Greatest Show On Earth", "Magnificent Obsession" and "Some Like It Hot" have already been aired on HBO-HD, etc., and looked great with just upconversion. Therefore films (especially color ones like "On The Town", "Anchor's Aweigh" and the 1951 "Showboat") already remastered to 480i will appear fantastic even if limited to upconversion for the time being.

But indeed expect a more limited difference for films upconverted to 1080i and not yet remastered like those recently released on DVD by the WB Archive Shop. These titles were prepared for airing on TCM but without remastering. They look very good but only slightly better on disc compared to TCM's standard definition broadcast. Since DVD is far superior to standard broadcast transmissions we should therefore expect the same limited improvement over standard definition for those titles without ANY remastering when broadcast over HD.
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post #120 of 1849 Old 06-19-2009, 08:12 AM
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Just saw in the Comcast HDTV thread that Seattle will be getting TCM HD (and a bunch of other stuff) on July 21.
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