Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV! - Page 48 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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HDTV Programming > Turner Classic Movies (TCM) in HDTV!
greaser's Avatar greaser 11:16 AM 05-26-2012
TCM admits that they're not transmitting in 'true' HD on their "HD"feed.They are upconverting. No one knows 'why' they won't give us a true HD pic.and TCM isn't telling.All everyone here is doing is guessing.Some believe it's technical issues,some believe it may be a 'rights' issue,still others 'i think' believe it has something to do with 'corporate' issues,money issues,whatever. TCM could end the constant speculation in a heartbeat if they wanted too, but they steadfastly refuse to explain to their viewing audience(many of whom are becoming increasingly angry) why after 3 YRS. we still have no true HD.I might get flamed for saying this but,Sometimes in my more cynical moments i think that TCM is committing a fraud by calling themselves TCM "HD".Afterall,if i sell you something,call it one thing,but deliver something else,then that's called fraud(bait 'n' switch).But as i said, that's only during my more cynical moments.

bruce73's Avatar bruce73 11:58 AM 05-26-2012
I'm certainly no expert, but isn't it true that receiving a "true HD signal" has no bearing on the content of that signal? Just because it's at 720p or 1080i doesn't guarantee anything. The pixels are present, even if they've been created through upconverting algorithms.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 12:30 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce73 View Post

I'm certainly no expert, but isn't it true that receiving a "true HD signal" has no bearing on the content of that signal? Just because it's at 720p or 1080i doesn't guarantee anything. The pixels are present, even if they've been created through upconverting algorithms.

Right, just because the actual transmitted and received signal is in an HD format doesn't mean that the content itself is of HD quality. SD quality content gets sent on HD channels all the time, I think FOX's talking heads show before their Sunday NFL games is still an SD quality production, CBS reality show The Amazing Race was SD until just recently I believe, and of course, TCM-HD sends nothing but SD quality content on their HD-labeled and transmitted channel.
lobosrul's Avatar lobosrul 12:32 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Right, just because the actual transmitted and received signal is in an HD format doesn't mean that the content itself is of HD quality. SD quality content gets sent on HD channels all the time, I think FOX's talking heads show before their Sunday NFL games is still an SD quality production, CBS reality show The Amazing Race was SD until just recently I believe, and of course, TCM-HD sends nothing but SD quality content on their HD-labeled and transmitted channel.

It was finally in HD last season.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 12:35 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

It was finally in HD last season.

Yes, I wasn't sure if it had changed, I never watch those pre-game shows anyway so I wasn't sure if it was still in SD or not.
NetworkTV's Avatar NetworkTV 01:03 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Yes, I wasn't sure if it had changed, I never watch those pre-game shows anyway so I wasn't sure if it was still in SD or not.

You're still on track citing sports channels as an example of regular upconversion of content. Those channels often run older footage from the video era (and even some vintage stuff is taken from tape copies, rather than the original film elements). That footage is often mixed with HD footage and upconverted to the channel's native resolution.

The good news is that it looks better upconverted before broadcast/cable compression takes place (as opposed to after, by the providers), so it looks better than consumer grade SD channels available on most cable and satellite services.

However, that doesn't make it HD. It just means it's given the best chance to look good that technology allows for the home TV viewer. That means a higher bit rate and full use of the 16x9 frame (whether it be using the full horizontal image for widescreen movies or by using pillar bars for 4:3 TV or academy ratio content).

The alternative is the windoboxing that occurs when viewing a native SD channel. This is certainly better than that.

It would just be nice if they took the final steps to do it right.
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 02:29 PM 05-26-2012
Moderators Note:

An inaccurate comment and number of replies have been edited.
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 02:32 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by greaser View Post

TCM admits that they're not transmitting in 'true' HD on their "HD"feed.They are upconverting. No one knows 'why' they won't give us a true HD pic.and TCM isn't telling.All everyone here is doing is guessing.Some believe it's technical issues,some believe it may be a 'rights' issue,still others 'i think' believe it has something to do with 'corporate' issues,money issues,whatever.

Could be any of the reasons you list, or those and more. And yes, we're all just guessing the reason(s) why.


Quote:


TCM could end the constant speculation in a heartbeat if they wanted too, but they steadfastly refuse to explain to their viewing audience(many of whom are becoming increasingly angry) why after 3 YRS. we still have no true HD.I might get flamed for saying this but,Sometimes in my more cynical moments i think that TCM is committing a fraud by calling themselves TCM "HD".Afterall,if i sell you something,call it one thing,but deliver something else,then that's called fraud(bait 'n' switch).But as i said, that's only during my more cynical moments.

You do have a valid point.
Stan54's Avatar Stan54 02:38 PM 05-26-2012
I will try again to say something that I think was removed for reasons that I cannot imagine.

Do any of us know of a media type that might be asked to interview a TCM corporate officer in hopes of answering all of our questions? There is someone that I have read on the internet in the past whose dba name I cannot recall. He seems to be able reach the right people in the tv business.
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 02:54 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

Do any of us know of a media type that might be asked to interview a TCM corporate officer in hopes of answering all of our questions? There is someone that I have read on the internet in the past whose dba name I cannot recall. He seems to be able reach the right people in the tv business.

I'm a media type. I've spoke directly with TCM. They have no comment beyond what I previously posted. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21440413
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 02:57 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

I will try again to say something that I think was removed for reasons that I cannot imagine.

Do any of us know of a media type that might be asked to interview a TCM corporate officer in hopes of answering all of our questions? There is someone that I have read on the internet in the past whose dba name I cannot recall. He seems to be able reach the right people in the tv business.

Try Philip Swann, he fancies himself as a investigative journalist in matters related to TV and HD. His product is often of little value in the opinion of many, myself included, but it's certainly worth a try.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 03:11 PM 05-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Try Philip Swann, he fancies himself as a investigative journalist in matters related to TV and HD. His product is often of little value in the opinion of many, myself included, but it's certainly worth a try.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/

I'd guess that's who Stan is thinking of, and I'd bet Phil takes it on. It's right up his alley.
NetworkTV's Avatar NetworkTV 07:38 AM 05-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Try Philip Swann, he fancies himself as a investigative journalist in matters related to TV and HD. His product is often of little value in the opinion of many, myself included, but it's certainly worth a try.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/

I'm pretty sure the only way Swanni takes it on is if it can somehow be made out to make DirecTV look bad.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 11:10 AM 05-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I'm pretty sure the only way Swanni takes it on is if it can somehow be made out to make DirecTV look bad.

Haha! Probably so!
Urga's Avatar Urga 01:34 PM 05-28-2012
Hello ,
I post you some photo film" African Queen " :







bobby94928's Avatar bobby94928 02:08 PM 05-28-2012
Spectacular, I want it here in the US!!!
lobosrul's Avatar lobosrul 02:09 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urga View Post

Hello ,
I post you some photo film" African Queen " :


If those pics are truly representative of the the PQ, then the bluray far, far outstrips TCM in France.
Urga's Avatar Urga 02:12 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

It doesn't matter. TCM HD in the US is not broadcasting any content in HDTV. This is the reason why the content in Europe looks better; it's being broadcast in HD. Not sure how often this needs to be explained.

Hello ,
I understand why TCM HD films are not native to the US HD while in France all the restored movies are in HD, there is a beautiful list .
Urga's Avatar Urga 02:19 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

If those pics are truly representative of the the PQ, then the bluray far, far outstrips TCM in France.

The blu ray are always better than HDTV, fortunately.
But TCM HD fr is excellent also.
StonesCat's Avatar StonesCat 02:19 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urga View Post

Hello ,
I understand why TCM HD films are not native to the US HD while in France all the restored movies are in HD, there is a beautiful list .

Let's not act like TCM in France is the exclusive home of all old movies in HD, most if not all that you've shown have been on one channel or another here. The African Queen has been on HDNet Movies and Epix over the past six months or so. Alot of the ones that TCM might have exclusively are those which aren't very well known to the masses(which would still be cool to see).
jjeff's Avatar jjeff 02:22 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

If those pics are truly representative of the the PQ, then the bluray far, far outstrips TCM in France.

Of course BD will "outstrip" any cable or OTA broadcast, for one thing BD is 1080p and another is the bitrate BD provides which we'll never see with our current TV standards. Also keep in mind the "screen shots" provided by Urga are optical(camera pointed at a TV screen) and not electronic. As good as they are I'm sure the actual TV looks even better
bruin95's Avatar bruin95 02:22 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

If those pics are truly representative of the the PQ, then the bluray far, far outstrips TCM in France.

These are photos of a TV screen. No matter how good the camera, or photographer is, they are bound to lose something in the translation.
lobosrul's Avatar lobosrul 02:26 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Of course BD will "outstrip" any cable or OTA broadcast, for one thing BD is 1080p and another is the bitrate BD provides which we'll never see with our current TV standards. Also keep in mind the "screen shots" provided by Urga are optical and no electronic. As good as they are I'm sure the actual TV looks even better

I have a feeling the loss in quality is mostly due to him taking a picture of his TV. I've seen caps of BBC-HD (which is a single lossy MPEG-4 encode) and it put US HDTV to shame. Not BD quality, but getting there. I'm pretty sure most European TV channels are about the same.
Urga's Avatar Urga 02:32 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruin95 View Post

These are photos of a TV screen. No matter how good the camera, or photographer is, they are bound to lose something in the translation.

Exact .
The image "Live" is still best, resize and upload lose definition .
Urga's Avatar Urga 02:42 PM 05-28-2012
This is a HD film which was re-mastered 4 K:

http://tcmcinema.fr/films/fiche/the-leopard-1963_81203/

I d take the record Wednesday morning .
Stan54's Avatar Stan54 02:52 PM 05-28-2012
Oddly enough, The African Queen doesn't look as good to me as Urga's previous postings of TMC's films. Not as much sharp detail as the others. In fact, it compares quite favorably with what I frequently see from TCM HD. I know many will disagree that is even possible.

By the way, I wrote to Phillip Swann this pm and he responded almost immediately. I had posed 7 short, single sentence questions, but he answered that I had asked about 87 questions too many.

I wrote back and asked him to infer what he might from the 7 straight - forward questions and comment as he wished.

I will copy and post our mailings when he responds again.
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 03:23 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post


By the way, I wrote to Phillip Swann this pm and he responded almost immediately. I had posed 7 short, single sentence questions, but he answered that I had asked about 87 questions too many.

I wrote back and asked him to infer what he might from the 7 straight - forward questions and comment as he wished.

I will copy and post our mailings when he responds again.

I'd be surprised but happy if TCM responds. I'd also bet Phil gives his version of what's happening in either event.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 03:25 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

Spectacular, I want it here in the US!!!

You know, I'm pretty sure TCM-HD France also transmits a signal to French Polynesia from a satellite we just might be able to get here on the west coast.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 03:26 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

I'd be surprised but happy if TCM responds. I'd also bet Phil gives his version of what's happening in either event.

Haha! That's what he do!
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 03:41 PM 05-28-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Haha! That's what he do!

Yes indeed it would.
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