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post #181 of 207 Old 08-17-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

But he was already the professor's direct ancestor...
No, he was already the professor's lateral ancestor.  Fry was childless when he was frozen in 1999 and had no descendants until "Roswell That Ends Well."  Hubert Farnsworth is descended from Yancy Fry (presumably via Philip J. Fry II, who is Yancy's only canonical offspring).
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I mean, becoming his own grandfather just made Fry his own ancestor... he was already related to Farnsworth.
Related, yes, as great^N-granduncle, not as a direct ancestor, until "Roswell That Ends Well," where he became Yancy's grandfather (as well as his own) and Hubert's great^(N+2)-grandfather.
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post #182 of 207 Old 08-17-2013, 06:07 PM
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And now my brain hurts.

wink.gif

Yeah baby!  It's Halloween!
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post #183 of 207 Old 08-17-2013, 08:30 PM
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Fry was always his own grandfather.
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post #184 of 207 Old 08-18-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

And now my brain hurts.
It will have to come out.

Monty Python quotes aside, a week from today Comedy Central is counting down ten fan favorite episodes.  I don't know which they are, and clearly anything from this last half-season wouldn't have gotten voted for, but they start at 6:00 PM EDT and, thanks to padding from extra commercials and despite CC's nasty habit of overlapping closing and opening credits, run until about 11:15 PM EDT.  If you record them, remember to allow for the overrun.
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post #185 of 207 Old 08-24-2013, 08:47 AM
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Murder on the Planet Express: Scruffy was involved much more than normal, probably his send off.

OK episode. Fairly intense. For a moment, I felt they all were going to die. But only for a moment until they went overboard.

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post #186 of 207 Old 08-24-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

No, he was already the professor's lateral ancestor.  Fry was childless when he was frozen in 1999 and had no descendants until "Roswell That Ends Well."  Hubert Farnsworth is descended from Yancy Fry (presumably via Philip J. Fry II, who is Yancy's only canonical offspring).
Related, yes, as great^N-granduncle, not as a direct ancestor, until "Roswell That Ends Well," where he became Yancy's grandfather (as well as his own) and Hubert's great^(N+2)-grandfather.

I think the word is "Literal"

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post #187 of 207 Old 08-25-2013, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by voyager6 View Post

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Originally Posted by dattier View Post

No, he was already the professor's lateral ancestor.  Fry was childless when he was frozen in 1999 and had no descendants until "Roswell That Ends Well."  Hubert Farnsworth is descended from Yancy Fry (presumably via Philip J. Fry II, who is Yancy's only canonical offspring).
Related, yes, as great^N-granduncle, not as a direct ancestor, until "Roswell That Ends Well," where he became Yancy's grandfather (as well as his own) and Hubert's great^(N+2)-grandfather.
I think the word is "Literal"
"Literal" only since "Roswell That Ends Well"; before then, lateral.
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post #188 of 207 Old 08-27-2013, 09:00 PM
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Disagree. Prof Farnsworth was defined as Fry's only living relative from Day 1. That makes it literal from Day 1. In Rozwell, Fry became his own relative. It made little change to the relationship to the professor. The major point of giving him immunity to the Brain's telepathic dumbing down powers.

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post #189 of 207 Old 08-28-2013, 09:45 AM
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Sheesh.
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Prof Farnsworth was defined as Fry's only living relative from Day 1.
Do you not understand that "descendant" is more specific than "relative" and that one can be a relative without being a descendant?

Yes, he was defined from day 1 as a relative, as a distant grandnephew.  (The "only" part was contradicted, however, when it turned out that he had cloned himself before Fry was thawed.)

Do none of you have nieces or nephews and realize that they are not your offspring? Do none of you have aunts or uncles and realize that they are not your parents? Hubert Farnsworth, as Yancy Fry's descendant, was always Philip Fry's relative but not his descendant, only his lateral descendant.  He became Fry's (direct) descendant when Fry became Yancy's (and his own) grandfather.

I don't see why people are having such trouble grasping this, and I'm giving up on re-explaining it.
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post #190 of 207 Old 08-28-2013, 09:02 PM
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I hear where you are coming from, and in the world of semantics you're exactly right... but genetically speaking I don't think it matters.

I am a combination of my mother and my father's DNA... so is my sister.

Our parents are not related to each other at all (at least we hope not, right?)... but each of our parents is equally related to myself and to my sister.

My sister and I are more related to each other than we are either of our parents... since we each have a similar mix of DNA from both parents.

Now... follow me here...

My sister has children. Her children are part her DNA and part her husband's DNA... IF I had any children, they would be part my DNA and part my wife's DNA... I would essentially share the same amount of DNA with my children as I would my niece or nephew... since each come from either me or my sister who are fully related to each other.

Thus... Prof Farnsworth being an offshoot of Fry's brother's genepool would share the same genetic commonalities as would a direct descendent of Fry (if he had any) that far out in the future.

So... making himself his own grandfather does not make him any more related to Prof Farnsworth than he already was since he is contributing to the genepool of himself and his brother equally from that point in the past.

So, while a descendant and a relative are not necessarily the same thing... in this specific case, Fry is no more related to Prof Farnsworth than he ever was.

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post #191 of 207 Old 08-28-2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

but genetically speaking I don't think it matters.
Agreed, because the incident in "Roswell That Ends Well" didn't change Fry's DNA nor that of the professor and his clone (nor, somehow, that of Fry's father, whose first name I don't remember.)
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My sister has children. Her children are part her DNA and part her husband's DNA... IF I had any children, they would be part my DNA and part my wife's DNA...
Yes, so far ...
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I would essentially share the same amount of DNA with my children as I would my niece or nephew... since each come from either me or my sister who are fully related to each other.
Disagreed.  By calling your potential reproductive partner "wife" you've specified yourself as male; by calling your sibling "sister" you've specified her as female.  Therefore you and your sister are not identical twins. Thus your DNA and hers have some differences.

Your niece and your nephew are each a 50% match to their mother, and any children you have will be a 50% match to you (treating the broken part of the Y chromosome as having the same weight as the corresponding part of the X chromosome).  There is no guaranteeing what portion of her DNA matches yours, let alone what portion of the 50% of your nephew's DNA that she supplied or what portion of the 50% of your niece's DNA that she supplied you, and the same will go for her and any children you may have in the future.  For one glaring example, if you ever have a son, neither his X chromosome nor his Y chromosome will match her, and thus he will certainly be less than a 50% match to your sister.  (I almost said "to his aunt" but for all I know your wife may have an identical twin.)
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post #192 of 207 Old 08-29-2013, 01:04 PM
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True... of course, using that logic... going down the rabbit hole of multiple generations apart (over the next 1000 years) in the Futurama example... you're truly no more related to a 1000 year-old ancestor than you are any random person on the street.

Worse... not to get into creation vs evolution... but whether you go with Adam/Eve or any religious origin of the species vs evolution of man from Africa... you reach a point where we all have a common origin somewhere, somehow... but for all intents and purposes we don't consider, say, 4-5 generations removed as being "related" for most common conversation.

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post #193 of 207 Old 08-29-2013, 04:59 PM
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HDMe2, you are using "related" to mean "having significantly more shared DNA beyond that which defines the species."  I have been using it to mean "having a traceable genealogical link to one another."
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post #194 of 207 Old 08-29-2013, 11:36 PM
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I know... that's why I don't think we are really arguing... just discussing two sides of a similar coin. You're absolutely correct in everything you have said, regarding "relationship" to the characters... I was just exploring another angle.

Meanwhile... just to prove I am actually watching the show smile.gif This week was a nice touch to do something good with and for Zoidberg.

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post #195 of 207 Old 08-30-2013, 10:35 AM
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Actually, with the pilot about to be rerun, I'm thinking of watching it again to make sure that the professor's relationship to Fry was, as I remember, specified as being a distant nephew.  Even that could mean that he's a descendant of, say, a first cousin, not necessarily of Yancy.  Of course, in 850 years’ time there could have been marriages between distant cousins that are not genetically risky, and he could be descended from Yancy and from a cousin of theirs.  I'm sure Groening and Cohen never thought about the details that deeply, but I'm retired and it's too muggy today for the elderly to spend time outdoors.
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post #196 of 207 Old 08-30-2013, 01:37 PM
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I get the distinct impression that they will somehow be tying the finale back to the pilot... so I too was thinking about re-watching the pilot since it is coming on right after the finale next week.

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post #197 of 207 Old 09-05-2013, 06:32 AM
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How was the final episode last night? Gotta admit, I fell out of the show during the past month. Just too busy with other things in life plus other shows.
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post #198 of 207 Old 09-05-2013, 07:56 AM
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I didn't record the repeat of the pilot but did review it while it was still in the DVR's buffer, and surprisingly, this old brain had remembered the genealogical relationship correctly: the professor is Yancy's descendant.

As to the finale, if I had 180 time buttons I would not use them to relive that half-hour; no regrets about watching it but, well, let's say that the ending wasn't of the sort that would make a viewer sorrier to see the series go.
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post #199 of 207 Old 09-05-2013, 07:26 PM
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A fine ending to a fine series.
RIP Futurama.frown.gif

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post #200 of 207 Old 09-05-2013, 09:35 PM
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Final episode thoughts:

I liked the opening sub-title: Avenge Us! in a blood dripping red font. It was on screed for a shorter time than normal. Wonder if they were afraid of CC censoring it? Best laugh of the episode!

You know they were going to go out outrageous and/or try for one of the touching sentimental endings. It was mostly the latter, but I didn't feel a lot for the characters because of the reset at the end... put in just in case they get picked up by another network/cable channel. If you didn't get it, the reset button was literal in this episode.

I thought it was out of character for Fry to steal the diamond for Leela's ring. How they made the diamond by selecting lumps of coal and crushing it into a diamond was great.

Did get a little gross seeing Fry hit the pavement... again and again and again... but you knew Fry wasn't going out that way.

Last week CC ran the top 10 fan-polled episodes called Fanarama. The top four looked HD to me or a much better up conversion than I had seen previously. Colors were cleaner and character outlines were HD-like thin. Episodes 7-10 looked like the original upconverts with the character line thickness fatter and blurrier. Anyone have thoughts?

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post #201 of 207 Old 09-06-2013, 01:48 AM
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You know they were going to go out outrageous and/or try for one of the touching sentimental endings. It was mostly the latter
For those unaware, the solo piano background music of the scenes with Leila and Fry growing old together is Chopin's Etude, Opus 10, #3....one of the most beautiful musical creations ever conceived by a human.wink.gif

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I thought it was out of character for Fry to steal the diamond for Leela's ring.
I didn't really think so.
Fry, like Bender, was always trying to get something for nuthin'.....wink.gif

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Did get a little gross seeing Fry hit the pavement... again and again and again... but you knew Fry wasn't going out that way.
True, but it was still funny.

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post #202 of 207 Old 09-06-2013, 06:04 AM
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You know they were going to go out outrageous and/or try for one of the touching sentimental endings. It was mostly the latter, but I didn't feel a lot for the characters because of the reset at the end... put in just in case they get picked up by another network/cable channel. If you didn't get it, the reset button was literal in this episode.

Not only was the final reset button literal (but I don't believe the show's creator, writers, or actors really want to revive the show again), but so was the 10-second button to relive the previous 10-seconds. Nearly every remote for a DVR has this function, as do many DVD or Blu-ray players. Press it and you relive or rewatch the previous 10 seconds. It was a funny self-referential in-joke, something the writers/showrunners of Futurama and The Simpsons are very good at, and totally in keeping with the professor's mostly silly or useless inventions (Smello-scope? biggrin.gif).

Now that the series is over, I can say definitively that The Late Philip J. Fry is without a doubt my favorite episode. It was inspired, intelligent, touching, funny, loaded with historical and cultural references, and unbelievably beautiful and cinematic in scope and presentation. As a big bonus for me personally, it also presented a short capsule of modern cosmology and the entire history of the universe, from Big Bang to Heat Death -- my favorite subject. That scene at the Heat Death and the end of time in which the professor, Fry, and Bender popped a beer and kicked back to watch nothing happen was brilliant and sublime and somehow profoundly sad and moving too. It would be my desert island episode for this show.
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post #203 of 207 Old 09-06-2013, 08:23 AM
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GN, E!

Great episode. Also, cameos by nearly every recurring character. Love the science-related humor on this show. Overall I enjoyed the final season.

18-49 rating was 1.2.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/09/05/wednesday-cable-ratings-duck-dynasty-wins-night-modern-dads-futurama-royal-pains-the-bridge-more/201036/

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post #204 of 207 Old 09-07-2013, 02:29 PM
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Very nice ending. Sweet! smile.gif
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post #205 of 207 Old 09-07-2013, 07:50 PM
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Very nice ending. Sweet! smile.gif
Indeed it was.wink.gif

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post #206 of 207 Old 09-07-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

Not only was the final reset button literal (but I don't believe the show's creator, writers, or actors really want to revive the show again), but so was the 10-second button to relive the previous 10-seconds. Nearly every remote for a DVR has this function, as do many DVD or Blu-ray players. Press it and you relive or rewatch the previous 10 seconds. It was a funny self-referential in-joke, something the writers/showrunners of Futurama and The Simpsons are very good at, and totally in keeping with the professor's mostly silly or useless inventions (Smello-scope? biggrin.gif)..

Or the boxes of universes.

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post #207 of 207 Old 09-11-2013, 10:41 PM
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One of things I liked was the total reset at end since it would cause Fry & Leila to repeat that moment in time infinitely (assuming quantum fluctuations don't cause enough changes to cause a different course of actions).
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