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'Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains' on CBS HD

83K views 1K replies 123 participants last post by  Emaych 
#1 ·
#327 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatChicken /forum/post/18377407


It seems interesting that, in the "scenes from next week's episode" that they showed last night, Rob doesn't seem to give Russel any credit for stratigic play,

he seems to think he's simply "nuts" a loose cannon, stupid player & unpredictable, since he was "stupid enough" to give away an idol ....

We'll see if that's really the case, or a snippett somehow taken out of context ...

Rob's not that great. What makes Russell interesting and fun is how much he understands game theory and uses it to his advantage.


I used to complain that most Survivor tribal council votes were boring because everyone usually votes for one person, and that person votes for someone else. That's because with simple game theory, everybody pools together their negative votes to save themselves and get one person off.


I always thought it would be fun to have a voting (not even tribal council) right after an immunity challenge, with no rest or discussion in-between. And have it be a surprise to the teams so they don't discuss voting before the challenge (don't discuss it the way they campaign after the challenge usually) Then you could have tribal to discuss things but ultimately read the votes that were cast right after the challenge and use that. Then you'd see votes split several ways and someone might go home with only 2 votes cast against them which I think would be interesting.


Why I say Russell gets it re: game theory is that he got Tyson to think more about getting someone off than saving himself. He got Tyson to ignore the instinct we all have in such scenarios (how do I save myself first and foremost?) and as a result, Tyson is a goner.


Rob can't even hold Russell's jock.
 
#328 ·
Probst surmises in his blog that Russell gave Parv the idol as "foreplay." She does have a seductive effect, but I discount Probst's supposition in this case.
 
#330 ·
Surely Parvati has tempted many without givin'-it-up, but Russell is not so deluded to think he's actually hittin' that...
 
#332 ·
It would be an interesting twist if, in some future seasons, there would also be an individual immunity for some of the team Tribal Councils...

Not like this week, when both tribes had to go, but on week(s) when just 1 tribe goes... Not every tribal, but a few ...

I hope Russell starts looking for (& finds), an idol Before another clue about one drops.. Rob would get ill if Russell pulls another unknown Idol out of his butt & causes Rob or an ally to leave instead ...
 
#333 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 /forum/post/18374990


Russell's move took my wife and I completely by surprise. I need to go back to the DVR to watch this episode again..... I think that "look" on Rob's face was the look of sheer disbelief, and incomprehension of what had just happened.
Great episode!

That look on Rob's face was of disbelief alright. Disbelief that one of his voters was completely clueless and dumb enough to not follow their plan for absolutely no good reason at all
. Tyson... man... bamboozled.


Based on what Tyson said in the confessional interview before council it seemed to me like it wasn't his intention to "flip" on his alliance and screw them at all. More like he saw what he thought was an opportunity to get rid of the person he wanted out more, with no real harm to his team since they would be happy with either gone. Not like a real blindside except to Tyson himself as he was the only one really getting played. Gotta feel a little sorry for Rob... He certainly had it all figured out and lined right up. If Tyson had even mentioned to them what he was thinking I'm quite sure Rob would have straightened out his "errant" thinking
. But alas...



ron
 
#334 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 /forum/post/18377928


Rob's not that great. What makes Russell interesting and fun is how much he understands game theory and uses it to his advantage.


I used to complain that most Survivor tribal council votes were boring because everyone usually votes for one person, and that person votes for someone else. That's because with simple game theory, everybody pools together their negative votes to save themselves and get one person off.


I always thought it would be fun to have a voting (not even tribal council) right after an immunity challenge, with no rest or discussion in-between. And have it be a surprise to the teams so they don't discuss voting before the challenge (don't discuss it the way they campaign after the challenge usually) Then you could have tribal to discuss things but ultimately read the votes that were cast right after the challenge and use that. Then you'd see votes split several ways and someone might go home with only 2 votes cast against them which I think would be interesting.


Why I say Russell gets it re: game theory is that he got Tyson to think more about getting someone off than saving himself. He got Tyson to ignore the instinct we all have in such scenarios (how do I save myself first and foremost?) and as a result, Tyson is a goner.


Rob can't even hold Russell's jock.

LOL. If you think Rob doesn't understand game play you are sadly mistaken
. I will fully agree that Russell has a distinct knack for somehow getting people to believe him though. I really thought Tyson was smarter than that. And I have to admit that after the very first challenge of the season I thought Colby was a bit unlucky to get beat by Coach but as it's played on he really does seem to have lost a lot since he was so dominate in the Australian Outback. That season got to the point were the challenges were boring because he just never lost.



ron
 
#335 ·
Tyson's move to switch his vote was surprising if only because he apparently knew He would be the one that "the others" would be writing down, & if anything remote went wrong He's rear was on the fire... ... That alone should have kept him to the plan ...


Also, if he would have thought about it, Tyson could have/should have either made himself as one of the 3 "Parv votes", if he wanted to write her so bad,

or, Swapped his vote with a Russell voter later ... ( "Look, I told Russell I'm voting Parv, so just swap votes w/me, you vote Russell instead, so that nothing changes, yet it will look to him as if I kept my word ...)....
 
#336 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAM4UK /forum/post/18378007


Surely Parvati has tempted many without givin'-it-up, but Russell is not so deluded to think he's actually hittin' that...

I agree. It was a shrewed move but I think he did it to show Coach something. I think he really felt pretty certain he had Tyson out and wanted to do something to attempt to win Coach over going forward.



ron
 
#337 ·
I said it before and I will say it again. Splitting the vote when you have the numbers is dumb. All you need is one person in your tribe to flake out and it will end in disaster. I am sure Russell may have thought Tyson would be willing to vote for Parviriti, but even if he would not Tyson is such a talker he is bound to spread it to the rest of the tribe. That way Russell can spread the word he is switching his vote without having to go to the rest of the tribe one by one.


What Russell really wants from Parvitti is the loyalty she has with the rest of the tribe. As long as the villains do not loose he is bound to get to the merge where he has four potential votes to add to his three solid votes. Coach is bound to flip over to J.T. when the tribes votes especially without Tyson to hold him down.
 
#338 ·
Just watched it. Brilliant move.


I was thinking Russell was going to do something else that, I think, would have also worked well, at least in the short term.


I thought he would sniff out the 3-3-3 vote and switch his vote to Parvarti. It would have saved him and he would have kept the idol. Not sure how that would have worked out long term, but it'd have been better than losing the idol and Parvarti. Might have hurt him in a jury vote at the end though.


His move was so much better though.
 
#339 ·
As much as I disrespect Russell as an individual, he really has a knack for the game. It was his lack of people skills that cost him the million his first time playing.


I think his reasons to give Parvati the idol were:

- that was how he planned it with the majority voting for Parvati

- a slap in the face to his enemies that even without the idol they can't touch him

- just plain grandstanding

- and to win points with Parvati - not that it's going to work because Parvati is playing him too
 
#340 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooked01 /forum/post/18380046


As much as I disrespect Russell as an individual, he really has a knack for the game. It was his lack of people skills that cost him the million his first time playing.


I think his reasons to give Parvati the idol were:

- that was how he planned it with the majority voting for Parvati

- a slap in the face to his enemies that even without the idol they can't touch him

- just plain grandstanding

- and to win points with Parvati - not that it's going to work because Parvati is playing him too

It also eliminated Coach's strongest ally. With Tyson gone, and with Coach already pledging loyalty to him (not necessarily Russell's alliance, though), this has the potential to bring Coach into his group.


Scott
 
#341 ·
It took me a while and a few rewinds to count the votes to figure out that Russell tricked Tyson into cutting his own throat. This will go down in Survivor history as one of the show's best plays. A game changer for future shows.


I was just trying to think if the split vote to flush out the idol has ever worked the way that was intended? Maybe once?
 
#342 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 /forum/post/18380466


It also eliminated Coach's strongest ally. With Tyson gone, and with Coach already pledging loyalty to him (not necessarily Russell's alliance, though), this has the potential to bring Coach into his group.


Scott

No question Russell was courting Coach. At the Tribal Council, just before he gave the idol away, he directly addressed Coach, claiming he was doing this because he, like Coach was a man of his word.
 
#343 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatChicken /forum/post/18378389


Tyson's move to switch his vote was surprising if only because he apparently knew He would be the one that "the others" would be writing down, & if anything remote went wrong He's rear was on the fire... ... That alone should have kept him to the plan ...

That's what I mean, makes absolutely no sense on Tyson's end. He had to know he was at risk. An emotional (non-rational) vote to say the least. It had to go through his mind that maybe Russell doesn't vote Parvarti. And he might be a goner if Parvarti plays the idol, a scenario they clearly discussed beforehand.
 
#344 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooked01 /forum/post/18380046


As much as I disrespect Russell as an individual, he really has a knack for the game. It was his lack of people skills that cost him the million his first time playing.


I think his reasons to give Parvati the idol were:

- that was how he planned it with the majority voting for Parvati

- a slap in the face to his enemies that even without the idol they can't touch him

- just plain grandstanding

- and to win points with Parvati - not that it's going to work because Parvati is playing him too


For the plan to work as it did, Russell had no choice but to give Parvarti the idol. B/c he tricked an extremely gullable Tyson into voting Parvarti, Parvarti had the most votes (4) and needed the idol to remain in the game. A ballsy and maybe somewhat reckless move (left himself open), but a gamechanger - for a vote anyway and maybe longer-term. He made bold moves last time and it got him all the way to end.


Rob is right too, Russell is like a kamikaze - he has no fear.


2 brilliant players.
 
#345 ·
It's great that Rob is thinking two steps ahead of everyone else. The only problem is that Russell was thinking three steps ahead this week. They are truly two of a kind on this show.
 
#346 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viventis /forum/post/18381599


No question Russell was courting Coach. At the Tribal Council, just before he gave the idol away, he directly addressed Coach, claiming he was doing this because he, like Coach was a man of his word.

I think in the end it will be Russell, Coach, and whoever will win, probably some hottie who Russell thought was too dumb to be a threat like Coach is.
 
#347 ·
Russell was able to keep all members of his small alliance by giving away the idol, vs saving himself only & being down to 2 members ...

Even if Russell gets Coach to vote w/ him next, that's still, what, at best, a 4 to 4 tie next TC, & not a good prospect/reason for coach to switch sides ...

Will he be able to sway both Coach & another?

** ASSuming Rob doesn't suddenly align with Russell, the other members of Rob's alliance aren't going to want to get rid of Rob, since he is a powerhouse at challenges, & of course they are "with" him ... ...

They will then realize that "they" are the more logical targets of Russell, (since they're not voting Rob), & may close ranks, since it's reasonable to ASSume none of them want to "be the one" to switch the balance of power over to Russell, & may feel they'd be on the bottom of the pecking order of Russell's alliance anyway, & feel they could last to the merge by simply picking off Russell's people one by one ... .... This will be a hard scenario for Russell to overcome, & that scenario ASSumes Coach will be in Russell's pocket first!


Another possibility, of course, is that Coach & Russell can sway another over, by making them paranoid that they are the 1st throw away of Rob's alliance ...


Either way, If Russell can survive the next TC, it may be just as big a blindside as this week... If he can get Rob voted off, it would be a bigger event than what he did this week!
 
#348 ·
Russell has a very tough road ahead. He needs the villains to keep winning immunity, and he needs to find the reset HII. If he can make it to the merge, he may be able to shift the game again...
 
#349 ·
One thing to keep in mind too is that even though it was talked about, rarely does one player give away the idol to another. Tyson may have thought Russell will ultimately play the idol himself and I don't want to be part of some tiebreaker so I'll just drop my vote on Parv and done deal...


I think there was a guy last season that flopped his vote cuz he didn't want to be part of a tiebreaker. I guess it's different out there when it's you on the line...
 
#350 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatChicken /forum/post/18382992


** ASSuming Rob doesn't suddenly align with Russell, the other members of Rob's alliance aren't going to want to get rid of Rob, since he is a powerhouse at challenges, & of course they are "with" him ... ...

They will then realize that "they" are the more logical targets of Russell, (since they're not voting Rob), & may close ranks, since it's reasonable to ASSume none of them want to "be the one" to switch the balance of power over to Russell, & may feel they'd be on the bottom of the pecking order of Russell's alliance anyway, & feel they could last to the merge by simply picking off Russell's people one by one ... .... This will be a hard scenario for Russell to overcome, & that scenario ASSumes Coach will be in Russell's pocket first!

OK, Rob and Russell aligning would be pretty crazy. If they could do it so that the others did not know and act like they were seperate and against each other, they could easily be in the final two or three, whatever it ends up being.
 
#351 ·
Along the lines of my previous post, if Tyson had immunity and Rob didn't... would he have structured the 3-3-3 plan knowing he was one of the three, or would he have swayed it, to let's say dead-weight Courtney? Keeps the team strong, flushes the idol out, and keeps the 5-3 numbers...
 
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