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post #451 of 3262 Old 03-12-2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Part of the confusion comes from the fact that Goggins was listed as a guest star at the beginning, and not made a regular until mid-season, as I recall.

Interesting that the show is still billed as "based on 'Fire in the Hole.'"

Well, it is based on it, just extended.

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post #452 of 3262 Old 03-12-2011, 01:33 PM
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I read an article and originally Goggins was definitely going to be killed off but the show runners got wise to the fact of how great Goggins is. He's why I started watching the show in the first place though Olyphant's great as well.
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post #453 of 3262 Old 03-12-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

...so early promos always featured Goggins prominently.

Right, and that's what I'm referring to. I came to this unaware of the press writings. I only saw the commercials promoting it. There's know way a new series will promo two major draws, Olyphant and Goggins, as two of the main characters without them being a part of the series for the long haul.

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post #454 of 3262 Old 03-13-2011, 07:22 AM
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Tim is the producer of the show, I'm sure he had a lot to say about keeping him.

BTW, I love this show.
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post #455 of 3262 Old 03-13-2011, 11:40 AM
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Boyd's dialog is a throw back to the old style 1800 way of speaking. Being from the mountains, cut them off from the rest of civilization until the early 1900's when the logging and mining industries and the railroads pushed into the mountains and brought "outsiders" into the hills. If you read letters from the common people of the south from the 1800's, it sounds very similar. Great writing.

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post #456 of 3262 Old 03-13-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

... If you read letters from the common people of the south from the 1800's, it sounds very similar. Great writing.

You're right. Reminds me of the spoken narrative of the letters written by soldiers in the PBS mini-series The Civil War.
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post #457 of 3262 Old 03-17-2011, 06:35 AM
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I can't believe the ex-wife took the hundred dollar bill from the evidence room. It's nice that she came clean with Raylan.
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post #458 of 3262 Old 03-17-2011, 12:27 PM
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I can't believe the ex-wife took the hundred dollar bill from the evidence room. It's nice that she came clean with Raylan.

Not the smartest thing to do but I don't she had criminal intent. If I understood correctly, she was just trying to determine if the bills were valid or not to lighten her workload. In a perverse sort of way, it's kind of refreshing to see that Winona has flaws just like Raylan. On a related note, I do think Winona will regret it if she tries too hard to turn Raylan into something he's not. I'm referring to her gently suggesting that Raylan get out of law enforcement.

I enjoyed the sequence at the end between Art and the "seasoned" bank robber.

Only Justified could come up with the premise for next week's episode though: Raylan participating in a inverse bank job!
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post #459 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 01:03 AM
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I don't know, that whole stealing bit with Winona seemed like a real stretch and way out of character, not sure what the writers are going for there, in my opinion, it's a colossal misstep in the ongoing mythos of the show.

Other than that, I think the writing, overall, is presently the finest you'll find on TV.
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post #460 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 06:35 AM
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I thought she was comtemplating taking all the money, afterall the guard told her those lockers were no longer being used. So she took a bill to the bank to see if they were traceable.
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post #461 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I don't know, that whole stealing bit with Winona seemed like a real stretch and way out of character, not sure what the writers are going for there, in my opinion, it's a colossal misstep in the ongoing mythos of the show.

Other than that, I think the writing, overall, is presently the finest you'll find on TV.

For me, the show suffers when it moves away from Harland (sp?) County. Those characters are just so amazingly rich. Plus (and I may be in the minority here) I don't find the Raylan/Winona plotline all that involving. I prefer Ava (in just about every way ) and think her relationship with Raylan is much more interesting.

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I thought she was comtemplating taking all the money, afterall the guard told her those lockers were no longer being used. So she took a bill to the bank to see if they were traceable.

This is what I thought as well.
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post #462 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 09:33 AM
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For me, the show suffers when it moves away from Harland (sp?) County. Those characters are just so amazingly rich. Plus (and I may be in the minority here) I don't find the Raylan/Winona plotline all that involving. I prefer Ava (in just about every way ) and think her relationship with Raylan is much more interesting.
This is what I thought as well.

Same, I thought it was obvious because of the earlier scene with her Ex, and she came to her sense just a little too late.
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post #463 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 11:14 AM
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Plus (and I may be in the minority here) I don't find the Raylan/Winona plotline all that involving. I prefer Ava (in just about every way ) and think her relationship with Raylan is much more interesting.

I agree: Comparing both women, at present Ava is the more compelling character.

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I thought she was comtemplating taking all the money, afterall the guard told her those lockers were no longer being used. So she took a bill to the bank to see if they were traceable.

You may be right: I had trouble determining exactly what Winona's objective was. If it was indeed robbery, I don't like it. I got the distinct impression that up to now, Winona was supposed to be the responsible adult in the room.
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post #464 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post
I thought she was comtemplating taking all the money, afterall the guard told her those lockers were no longer being used. So she took a bill to the bank to see if they were traceable.
But that still doesn't track for me, all of a sudden she's a thief, an ADA? Sure, the groundwork was laid with the discussion about the house, but still... this episode seemed like a throwaway to me.

Agree as well that the Raylan/Ava dynamic is far more interesting than the ex-wife thing.
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post #465 of 3262 Old 03-18-2011, 02:30 PM
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I agree with the assessment that Winona took the money with bad original intent and had a change of heart - out of fear - before getting caught in the bank robbery. It seemed pretty straightforward the way they set it all up, including the financial crisis at home. I also agree it was a writer's misstep to go that way. As for Ava vs. Winona, I prefer Ava and her story/character also. In real life, she (Joelle Carter) is actually 3 yrs. older than Natalie Zea who plays Winona, but I wouldn't have guessed it. Still love this show.

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post #466 of 3262 Old 03-19-2011, 12:17 AM
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I don't think it's really been established that Winona is such a straight arrow. And while she's being played as mostly cool and collected, she's clearly under increasing stress. One of the great things about this show is how subtly and slowly it reveals its characters' layers. Winona is getting the spotlight here really for the first time as herself, and not just as a satellite of Raylan.

The episodes are short and there are too few of them, and too many really interesting characters to give them all their due. That's my only criticism of this excellent show.

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post #467 of 3262 Old 03-19-2011, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

I don't think it's really been established that Winona is such a straight arrow. And while she's being played as mostly cool and collected, she's clearly under increasing stress. One of the great things about this show is how subtly and slowly it reveals its characters' layers. Winona is getting the spotlight here really for the first time as herself, and not just as a satellite of Raylan.

The episodes are short and there are too few of them, and too many really interesting characters to give them all their due. That's my only criticism of this excellent show.

Though I'll admit Justified never went out of its way to show Winona as a straight arrow, they never portrayed her as amoral either; until now perhaps. I don't think it's implausible for her to turn to the dark side so to speak, but I think it would have been more realistic if they had provided hints of this persona in past episodes.
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post #468 of 3262 Old 03-19-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by elockett View Post

Though I'll admit Justified never went out of its way to show Winona as a straight arrow, they never portrayed her as amoral either; until now perhaps. I don't think it's implausible for her to turn to the dark side so to speak, but I think it would have been more realistic if they had provided hints of this persona in past episodes.

There have been hints of her character. She left Raylan for the realtor when he got transferred to Miami. She was supposed to sell the house, but instead took up with the realtor. When she was first introduced she told Raylan, she did it because she wanted the big house (which she is losing now). She always struck me as selfish and hard to deal with. This has been reinforced throughout this season. Ultimately, I get the feeling that whatever or whoever she's in to, she's more concerned about No.1. In that light, I see nothing illogical about this character going off the rails.

I think she's trouble for Raylan, certainly difficult. He just can't let her go. Most of us have been there in a relationship.

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post #469 of 3262 Old 03-19-2011, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

There have been hints of her character. She left Raylan for the realtor when he got transferred to Miami. She was supposed to sell the house, but instead took up with the realtor. When she was first introduced she told Raylan, she did it because she wanted the big house (which she is losing now). She always struck me as selfish and hard to deal with. This has been reinforced throughout this season. Ultimately, I get the feeling that whatever or whoever she's in to, she's more concerned about No.1. In that light, I see nothing illogical about this character going off the rails.

I think she's trouble for Raylan, certainly difficult. He just can't let her go. Most of us have been there in a relationship.

I can't fault your analysis because the facts would support the inferences you have made, although I come down in a somewhat different place. It seems to me that Raylan's problems match or exceed Winona's. He is almost insanely driven and reckless about his safety, so Winona's decision to move on wasn't entirely selfish, it seems to me. As we have seen again and again, Winona understands Raylan as nobody else does.

As to the motivation behind Winona's decision to take the $100 bill from the cash in the evidence locker, I think we simply don't know enough to draw a conclusion and I can't use her decision to leave Raylan as evidence that her motives were evil. I think we can agree, though, that Justified is smart television for grownups.
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post #470 of 3262 Old 03-19-2011, 02:06 PM
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I can't fault your analysis because the facts would support the inferences you have made, although I come down in a somewhat different place. It seems to me that Raylan's problems match or exceed Winona's. He is almost insanely driven and reckless about his safety, so Winona's decision to move on wasn't entirely selfish, it seems to me. As we have seen again and again, Winona understands Raylan as nobody else does.

As to the motivation behind Winona's decision to take the $100 bill from the cash in the evidence locker, I think we simply don't know enough to draw a conclusion and I can't use her decision to leave Raylan as evidence that her motives were evil. I think we can agree, though, that Justified is smart television for grownups.

There go again...always taking the woman's side . Of course Raylan's got issues, but he's a pearl and can be counted on. Not something I've seen from the Winona character much. I agree, we don't know enough about $100 motivations, though I suspect she was tempted to do something stupid. I'm not implying evil intent, just a poor decision.

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post #471 of 3262 Old 03-23-2011, 06:39 PM
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On tonite, thought it deserved a bump.
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post #472 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 12:06 AM
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I take it all back, I should have trusted the writers of the best written show on TV. Tonight's resolution to the Winona stealing escapade was well done, in a fun, edge of the seat manner, kudos to the writers for that.

The idea of Boyd being a security expert opens the door for all sorts of hi-jinks, looking forward to seeing how it all plays out, especially how it looks to be merging the Crowder/Bennett plotlines.

As always of course, the dialog in this show is absolutely outstanding, I could listen to these actors read these lines for hours on end, great stuff!
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post #473 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 04:24 AM
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But that still doesn't track for me, all of a sudden she's a thief, an ADA?

ADA? She's a court reporter.
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post #474 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 06:43 AM
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Is this first time we found out that Winona was a court reporter? I guess I always assumed she was an ADA. Why would a court reporter be given or need access to an evidence room? Otherwise a great episode. I think Art figured out what happened in the end.
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post #475 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 10:23 AM
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Is this first time we found out that Winona was a court reporter? I guess I always assumed she was an ADA. Why would a court reporter be given or need access to an evidence room? Otherwise a great episode. I think Art figured out what happened in the end.

I haven't seen the latest episode yet. We learned she was a court reporter at least twice. I remember learning it when we first met her and then again when she recused herself when Ava was being disposed.
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post #476 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mnevar View Post

ADA? She's a court reporter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemyM View Post

Is this first time we found out that Winona was a court reporter? I guess I always assumed she was an ADA. Why would a court reporter be given or need access to an evidence room? Otherwise a great episode. I think Art figured out what happened in the end.

Yes, I forgot to mention that in my last post. I'm not sure why I thought she was an ADA previously, but I see I'm not the only one who thought so. Up until seeing her last night I was going on the assumption she was an ADA, and that's a good question about a court reporter having access, that really doesn't sound right.

In any case, I'm glad that little excursion is over and done with and we can move on with the Bennett/Crowder storylines, which in my opinion, are far more interesting.
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post #477 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 10:38 AM
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I tend to agree with the assessment that Wy was taking the $100 to "lighten the workload" so to speak. i mean, $100 goes a long way in a town like that, and she certainly doesn't need the cash


On a lighter note, I have been waiting since the Sopranos ended for a high quality show - profanity or not, to come along, and it finally has. "Human Target" insn't so bad for network TV, but not since the days of Rockford or Colombo has there been a show cerebrial enough to hold my attention.

Can anyone give me an "AMEN" to Justified being one of the top 5 shows on TV right now?

Also, Raylan doesn't seem to don the cowboy hat as much anymore.....I hope they don't sell out to try to capture more northern watchers. Hell, I'm from Minnesota and that was one of the coolest things about the show to me. Good ole' fashion kick your ass country boy. Lemme get an "AMEN-2".
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post #478 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 11:25 AM
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I haven't seen the latest episode yet. We learned she was a court reporter at least twice. I remember learning it when we first met her and then again when she recused herself when Ava was being disposed.

That's correct. I seem to recall we learned in the first episode Winona appeared in that she was a court reporter. We have seen her using her Stenotype machine in court on a number of occasions.
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post #479 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 11:31 AM
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Shows how much I've been paying attention to her job on the show, must have been her "other scenes" that distracted me.
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post #480 of 3262 Old 03-24-2011, 12:22 PM
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Shows how much I've been paying attention to her job on the show, must have been her "other scenes" that distracted me.

Yeah, Natalie Zea is gorgeous, isn't she? I would hate to try a lawsuit before a judge whose reporter she was. Talk about distracting! Come to think of it, though, I would hate to have to try a lawsuit before a judge as crazy as the one played by Stephen Root, even if his reporter weren't as sensationally beautiful as Zea is.
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