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post #1531 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 12:24 PM
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No more spoilers now...here's GYs commentary on the finale...

http://www.thewrap.com/tv/column-pos...a-moment-36941

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #1532 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Where is the discussion for all the other plot directions that you said were discussed in the past week?

Previous posts in this thread.

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Nobody said Limehouse would kill or even pay a part in the death of Quarles. At all.

An episode or two back Lime told Q face-to-face not to screw around with him or face a terrible ending.

The look on Lime's face when he saw Q last night was the look of a man who has made up his mind to kill someone.


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Originally Posted by fjames View Post

Did Boyd manipulate Arlo into taking the fall?

I don't think so...Boyd seemed very surprised by Arlo's "confession."

Quote:


Starting last week when Arlo called Boyd "Raylan," there have been several scenes where Boyd was kind of kissing up to Arlo, and of course the Boyd/Raylan conversation of "family."

It seemed to me Boyd was being genuine.
He was well aware Arlo was slipping....


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Originally Posted by drummerguy View Post

Is it too much of a stretch to think that the writers were giving a nod to The Fugitive? That is, U.S. Marshals chasing Quarles, who by episode's end would be a one-armed man.

Nice one.


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Originally Posted by davemcs View Post

Also rather ironic that one of Quarles' first lines to Raylan were "I'm unarmed"!

LOL.

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post #1533 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

No more spoilers now...here's GYs commentary on the finale...

http://www.thewrap.com/tv/column-pos...a-moment-36941

Great interview.
It's interesting how he validated much of this thread's speculating over the season.

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post #1534 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Previous posts in this thread.

Just typing it doesn't make it so. I've been reading this thread too, so link to some of these predictive posts you are using as evidence that the finale was predictable because I can't seen them.


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post #1535 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jabbathespud View Post

Given that Arlo thought Helen was badgering him, could his shooting of whom he thought was Raylan, be an act of revenge against Helen since Helen always favored Raylan?

Arlo wasn't lying when he said he shot "a cop in a hat", but he also didn't think it was Raylan when he pulled the trigger. Recall that earlier in the episode Arlo said he "heard a trooper got shot", and was glad it wasn't Raylan. That prompted a heartfelt conversation between he and Raylan that was pretty out of character for Arlo. I think he was shaken that it could have been Raylan and was genuinely relieved it wasn't. But yeah, it may not have stopped him anyways and Raylan knows that.

But considering Arlo is a career petty criminal, it's understandable that he might look at Boyd as more of a son to him than Raylan. That was a pretty big sacrifice he willingly made - he'll likely spend the rest of his life in prison (and going up for two murders instead of one probably won't make any difference). And it means Boyd is free to wreck more havoc in Harlan County next year! Yea!

Loved the line where Boyd told Ava the cops would know he would always come back to her. Awww. Next year: full on Bonnie & Clyde for those two lovebirds. And now that we know Johnny has betrayed Boyd, how long will it be before Boyd finds out?

I think Limehouse will continue to be a recurring character on the show. He's just too good a character to lose, although now that Mag's money has been revealed to be with Loretta he may not have a regular presence.

Another great season for one of TV's best shows. I think back to the pre-season tease with Raylan and Boyd doing a Butch and Sundance shootout thing and how it foreshadowed the fact that they were going to be battling a common enemy, although not that literally. Very cool.
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post #1536 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Just typing it doesn't make it so. I've been reading this thread too, so link to some of these predictive posts you are using as evidence that the finale was predictable because I can't seen them.

If you really want me to be EXACTING, I'll gladly drop the phrase "last week" and insert "previous posts in this thread."
But that is as far as I'll go.

I am not going to spend my any more of the time I have left on Earth to accommodate further.

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post #1537 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Arlo wasn't lying when he said he shot "a cop in a hat", but he also didn't think it was Raylan when he pulled the trigger. Recall that earlier in the episode Arlo said he "heard a trooper got shot", and was glad it wasn't Raylan. That prompted a heartfelt conversation between he and Raylan that was pretty out of character for Arlo. I think he was shaken that it could have been Raylan and was genuinely relieved it wasn't. But yeah, it may not have stopped him anyways and Raylan knows that.

I agree, it also shows Arlo's mental capacity is denigenerating quickly.

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And now that we know Johnny has betrayed Boyd, how long will it be before Boyd finds out?

Hard to say when, other than most likely next season; but when he does, Johnny will be in for a drop (without the safety equipment).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8UIW_vNUZA

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post #1538 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Arlo wasn't lying when he said he shot "a cop in a hat", but he also didn't think it was Raylan when he pulled the trigger. Recall that earlier in the episode Arlo said he "heard a trooper got shot", and was glad it wasn't Raylan. That prompted a heartfelt conversation between he and Raylan that was pretty out of character for Arlo. I think he was shaken that it could have been Raylan and was genuinely relieved it wasn't. But yeah, it may not have stopped him anyways and Raylan knows that.

But considering Arlo is a career petty criminal, it's understandable that he might look at Boyd as more of a son to him than Raylan. That was a pretty big sacrifice he willingly made - he'll likely spend the rest of his life in prison (and going up for two murders instead of one probably won't make any difference). And it means Boyd is free to wreck more havoc in Harlan County next year! Yea!

Loved the line where Boyd told Ava the cops would know he would always come back to her. Awww. Next year: full on Bonnie & Clyde for those two lovebirds. And now that we know Johnny has betrayed Boyd, how long will it be before Boyd finds out?

I think Limehouse will continue to be a recurring character on the show. He's just too good a character to lose, although now that Mag's money has been revealed to be with Loretta he may not have a regular presence.

Another great season for one of TV's best shows. I think back to the pre-season tease with Raylan and Boyd doing a Butch and Sundance shootout thing and how it foreshadowed the fact that they were going to be battling a common enemy, although not that literally. Very cool.

The Arlo question is more complicated than that. He may not have been sure if the cop in the hat was Raylan, but he was traveling in conflicted directions. He was protecting Boyd and didn't particularly care if it was Raylan or not. He probably figured it was. It's discussed here in detail...

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/04/11/ju...laughterhouse/

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post #1539 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 03:37 PM
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Just a thought, but Arlo was on his meds when he copped wasn't he? So he could recant ...

That was a great interview at the Wrap. I liked that he pointed out that Boyd was a criminal and that criminals were always less intelligent than the good guys in EL's books. I had been noticing that they seemed to be playing down Boyd's cleverness while simultaneously emphasizing his basic criminality the last few episodes. I think maybe they're worried about the show being a bit too clever, a bit too superhero-ish.

The facial expressions from Tim when Limehouse and the guys got the drop on him was excellent - mister "always has an answer" had none and it really messed with his mental state as conveyed by TO.

I was disappointed though, that he seemed to think that the ending scene with Winona was when the audience was supposed to get it (the hat.) At least he questioned it being hitting the viewer over the head. I took the scene at face value, extending the relationship with Winona etc., but it's hard to believe they thought they had to hit the hat again just to be sure people got it. One of the issues the poor writers and show runners have to deal with all the time I suppose.

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post #1540 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

The Arlo question is more complicated than that. He may not have been sure if the cop in the hat was Raylan, but he was traveling in conflicted directions. He was protecting Boyd and didn't particularly care if it was Raylan or not. He probably figured it was. It's discussed here in detail...

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/04/11/ju...laughterhouse/

Excellent interview. Lots of little insights into plot and production.

I'm also glad Yost singled out Jere Burns' reactions for his favorite moments. Like I've said previously those moments were some of mine too. The opening to the finale was an epic example.


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post #1541 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 04:06 PM
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My take on Ava hitting one of her "girls"; It wasn't because she has gotten hard. It was because she was thinking the girl had put Boyd in danger. It was the scene I realized just how much he meant to her. Up till now, I thought there was a chance Boyd was just a rebound romance after Raylon and that she still loved Raylon. This episode cleared it up. As for Arlo, the way I see it is it was a gut reaction by him. Given a choice brtween Raylon and Boyd, he chose Boyd. Thats how Raylon saw it too, which is why he was so shaken.

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post #1542 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

That was a great interview at the Wrap. I liked that he pointed out that Boyd was a criminal and that criminals were always less intelligent than the good guys in EL's books. I had been noticing that they seemed to be playing down Boyd's cleverness while simultaneously emphasizing his basic criminality the last few episodes. I think maybe they're worried about the show being a bit too clever, a bit too superhero-ish.
The facial expressions from Tim when Limehouse and the guys got the drop on him was excellent - mister "always has an answer" had none and it really messed with his mental state as conveyed by TO.

In EL's latest book, Raylan, neither Boyd nor Raylan are as smart as in the first 2 seasons of Justified.
IMO, much of this season was influenced by the novel.
There is no doubt the writers had it in hand when sitting down to write the season.
Approx. 2/3 of the novel is the 3rd season of the show.

This season's Raylan (the character) is not nearly as fun as the 1st two.
He is not as engaging as he once was...much more quiet, more remote.
TO certainly was EL's "Raylan" this year, right down to a tee.


Quote:


I was disappointed though, that he seemed to think that the ending scene with Winona was when the audience was supposed to get it (the hat.) At least he questioned it being hitting the viewer over the head. I took the scene at face value, extending the relationship with Winona etc., but it's hard to believe they thought they had to hit the hat again just to be sure people got it. One of the issues the poor writers and show runners have to deal with all the time I suppose.

Not everyone is as sharp as AVSers...or as humble.


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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

My take on Ava hitting one of her "girls"; It wasn't because she has gotten hard. It was because she was thinking the girl had put Boyd in danger. It was the scene I realized just how much he meant to her. Up till now, I thought there was a chance Boyd was just a rebound romance after Raylon and that she still loved Raylon. This episode cleared it up. As for Arlo, the way I see it is it was a gut reaction by him. Given a choice brtween Raylon and Boyd, he chose Boyd. Thats how Raylon saw it too, which is why he was so shaken.

+1

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post #1543 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 07:11 PM
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I love this show.

Most of the villains end up dead, or in jail, and Raylon continues on pissed at the world.

i loved how limehouse kept his money in plain site in a "piggybank" and Boyd ended up on top and free.

I dunno about how Quarles could get his arm chopped up with a butchers knife so easily. The human arm can't be chopped off that easily.

He showed off his trick gun too early I guess.
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post #1544 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 07:15 PM
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The only thing that bothers me is do real Marshals have this much power?

I thought they only go after fugitives. They don't interfere with the local police.


Still one of the best shows on TV though.
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post #1545 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer View Post

I dunno about how Quarles could get his arm chopped up with a butchers knife so easily. The human arm can't be chopped off that easily.

Your post made me curious so I went back and watched the part of the scene in which Limehouse cuts off Quarles arm in slow motion. I thought it was entirely credible. First, Raylan had Quarles forearm firmly under control; second Limehouse's weapon was not a butcher knife, it was a large meat cleaver; and third, Limehouse had a running start and swung the cleaver with both hands, using everything he had. I was convinced.
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post #1546 of 3254 Old 04-11-2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer View Post

I thought they only go after fugitives. They don't interfere with the local police.

As a general rule: YES.
However, every law enforcement officer in the nation takes an oath to "uphold the law."


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Your post made me curious so I went back and watched the part of the scene in which Limehouse cuts off Quarles arm in slow motion. I thought it was entirely credible. First, Raylan had Quarles forearm firmly under control; second Limehouse's weapon was not a butcher knife, it was a large meat cleaver; and third, Limehouse had a running start and swung the cleaver with both hands, using everything he had. I was convinced.

We have EVERY reason to believe Lime would have the sharpest blades around....

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post #1547 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer View Post

The only thing that bothers me is do real Marshals have this much power?

I thought they only go after fugitives. They don't interfere with the local police.

Still one of the best shows on TV though.

As much power as CSIs doing everything by themselves? Not that I compare the two shows (Justified is way better, CSI just a guilty pleasure, guess i became attached to the characters ober the years) but in terms of the lead characters handling much of the stuff they probably wouldn't do in real life they are similar.

Great finale!


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post #1548 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lone Wanderer View Post

I love this show.

Most of the villains end up dead, or in jail, and Raylon continues on pissed at the world.

i loved how limehouse kept his money in plain site in a "piggybank" and Boyd ended up on top and free.

I dunno about how Quarles could get his arm chopped up with a butchers knife so easily. The human arm can't be chopped off that easily.

He showed off his trick gun too early I guess.

Limehouse is not a skinny guy. That's a sharp meat cleaver used to slice hogs which are lots more massive than a human arm. Put your 200+ LBS body weight into a full body swing with a cleaver and an arm comes off. Not that I for one have done it.

Limehouse is clever hiding the $ in pig carcasses. That way any Muslim terrorists attacking the Holler will never get it.
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post #1549 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 05:24 AM
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Really enjoyed the final episode, Raylan duel wielding pistols was prety good. My only issue was the whole arm cutting off, no way would that be possible in one swipe of an arm in mid-air, now if it was on a chopping block and they put enough force, maybe, but not in the air like that. Other then that, excellent expisode, looking forward to next season.

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post #1550 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 05:28 AM
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Really enjoyed the final episode, Raylan duel wielding pistols was prety good. My only issue was the whole arm cutting off, no way would that be possible in one swipe of an arm in mid-air, now if it was on a chopping block and they put enough force, maybe, but not in the air like that. Other then that, excellent expisode, looking forward to next season.

Remember it's just TV :-)


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post #1551 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 05:59 AM
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Really enjoyed the final episode, Raylan duel wielding pistols was pretty good. My only issue was the whole arm cutting off, no way would that be possible in one swipe of an arm in mid-air, now if it was on a chopping block and they put enough force, maybe, but not in the air like that. Other then that, excellent exposed, looking forward to next season.

You must not watch 'Spartacus', then, or the whole array of films and shows where entire limbs and even heads get lopped off with a single swipe of a sword. Seems pretty easy to do if your abs are sufficiently ripped.
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post #1552 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 07:28 AM
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My take on Arlo. He's going down for Tom's murder and he knows it. One more murder on top of killing the trooper really isn't going to matter. I believe he was sharp and knew exactly what he was doing as Boyd had made him take his meds. He knows Boyd will do what he can for him and can do it better on the outside. Boyd will put the puzzle together pretty quick next year and take out Johnny.
Arlo let Raylon know a cop in a hat got shot. He was not on meds when he shot Tom and wasn't thinking straight then as Boyd was out and in no danger. Arlo in a deranged state was shooting Raylon IMO. Maybe afterwards when he talked to Raylon he had regrets and was relieved he didn't shoot Raylon.
Whether Limehouse would be able to completely take off Quarles arm.... hey the guy pounds through bones everyday with a cleaver and with his life at stake I think its a least plausable. Maybe Mythbusters can take a look
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post #1553 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 09:43 AM
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Maybe Mythbusters can take a look

Graham Yost is a big fan of Mythbusters. That's a great idea. Send him an email and I'll bet he'll have them set it up...free publicity. Now as to voluteers...

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #1554 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 10:01 AM
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Please everyone,

It's Raylan. Not "Raylon" (which sounds like something you'd make a golf shirt out of).

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post #1555 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
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Graham Yost is a big fan of Mythbusters. That's a great idea. Send him an email and I'll bet he'll have them set it up...free publicity. Now as to voluteers...

lol.... Buster won't work. Hey, isn't that a pig corspe slowly raising his leg with a gun in it
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post #1556 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
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Graham Yost is a big fan of Mythbusters. That's a great idea. Send him an email and I'll bet he'll have them set it up...free publicity. Now as to voluteers...

There was a show on Spike TV a couple of years ago called "Deadliest Warriors."
It basically tested the formidability of ancient weapons.
Often, deceased pigs or cows were used to judge the abilities of blades and other pointy things.
After watching the show, IMO, a meat cleaver wielded by an expert can easily hack off a limb.

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post #1557 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 10:59 AM
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Loved the finale.

... and to address earlier posts, the only appropriate drink for this show is Bourbon.
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post #1558 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
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There was a show on Spike TV a couple of years ago called "Deadliest Warriors."
It basically tested the formidability of ancient weapons.
Often, deceased pigs or cows were used to judge the abilities of blades and other pointy things.
After watching the show, IMO, a meat cleaver wielded by an expert can easily hack off a limb.

Did Limehouse catch Quarles at the elbow joint? Butchers are good at that, and it's a lot easier than hacking through bone.

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post #1559 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cpanther95 View Post

loved the finale.

... And to address earlier posts, the only appropriate drink for this show is bourbon.

Exactly!
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post #1560 of 3254 Old 04-12-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post


... and to address earlier posts, the only appropriate drink for this show is Bourbon.

OK, OK, to be honest...you're right: Jack and Bud would be the most authentic.
However, I have made a career out of going against the grain.


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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Did Limehouse catch Quarles at the elbow joint? Butchers are good at that, and it's a lot easier than hacking through bone.

I am not sure, but it looked fairly close.

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