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post #1561 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Did Limehouse catch Quarles at the elbow joint? Butchers are good at that, and it's a lot easier than hacking through bone.

From what I remember when Quarles was lying on the floor, the cut was higher up in the bicep. But that's based only on one viewing.

Having been conditioned by the repeated limb-severing in Spartacus (not to mention many, many slasher films), I didn't think Limehouse chopping off his arm was unrealistic.
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post #1562 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 11:56 AM
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The funniest part for me was the look on Raylan's face as he held Q's arm just out of his reach. It's like he didn't even want to give him the satisfaction of trying to put it back on.
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post #1563 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you cut an arm off with a meat cleaver? In the case of Limehouse, absolutely. He kept his tools sharp and he's a big guy.

If you need proof of that then look no further then the Rwanda genocide of the 90's. Thousands of people lost limbs to rusty machetes and a lot of it was captured on film by reporters as it happened.

If you want something more poetic and less horrific as an example then the legends about the katana and it's sharpness measured in bodies is also mostly true and they were regularly tested by their ability to cut through human bodies and limbs in one swing.

edit: and for related damage check out the ARMA archive of their sword testing against carcasses and materials.
http://www.thearma.org/Videos/NTCvid...dmaterials.htm


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post #1564 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

The funniest part for me was the look on Raylan's face as he held Q's arm just out of his reach. It's like he didn't even want to give him the satisfaction of trying to put it back on.

I wouldn't have let him grab it either. It still had that retracting pistol attached. It was still a morbidly funny scene, though.
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post #1565 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Can you cut an arm off with a meat cleaver? In the case of Limehouse, absolutely. He kept his tools sharp and he's a big guy.

If you need proof of that then look no further then the Rwanda genocide of the 90's. Thousands of people lost limbs to rusty machetes and a lot of it was captured on film by reporters as it happened.

If you want something more poetic and less horrific as an example then the legends about the katana and it's sharpness measured in bodies is also mostly true and they were regularly tested by their ability to cut through human bodies and limbs in one swing.

edit: and for related damage check out the ARMA archive of their sword testing against carcasses and materials.
http://www.thearma.org/Videos/NTCvid...dmaterials.htm

I think part of the problem is that hacking throw something ona a flat surface or that is not giving is a lot easier then hitting an arm, extended in the air that is going to give and push downward with the force when it connects, bend at the elbow, shoulder, whole body, etc.

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post #1566 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

I think part of the problem is that hacking throw something ona a flat surface or that is not giving is a lot easier then hitting an arm, extended in the air that is going to give and push downward with the force when it connects, bend at the elbow, shoulder, whole body, etc.

Not relevant at all, especially since Raylan had Quarles in a firm arm lock. A large enough sharp blade with enough force is more than enough to remove a limb. As I said above, if you want examples just check out the research I mentioned. If you have the guts for it track down some old news footage of Rwanda as people were massacred. I can still to this day remember the scenes captured by a helicopter news crew at the time. You don't need posing on a chopping block to have your arm cut off.


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post #1567 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 02:50 PM
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IIRC, Apocalypse Now has a scene showing a live water buffalo nearly cut in half with an axe or machete.

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post #1568 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 05:30 PM
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If you go back and look at that scene, when Raylan grabs Quarles's wrist, it seems like he twists it inward which would secure the extended arm. And it does look as if it was severed pretty close to the elbow, as Raylan appears to be holding just the forearm. I don't have any problems with the plausibility of it. Besides it makes great TV. ;-)
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post #1569 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 06:03 PM
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I don't know physics, but just to do something I figured 5lb for the cleaver (or was it 4 ...) and 90mph for the swing, and an online calculator gave ~1350 lb/ft of kinetic energy. That kind of energy against a firm object is gonna make a mess whatever it is - being a professional butcher's cleaver, all that energy is directed into a very small area (the edge) and will be multiplied to an extreme.

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post #1570 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Loved the finale.

... and to address earlier posts, the only appropriate drink for this show is Bourbon.

Does Wild Turkey on the rocks qualify?

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IIRC, Apocalypse Now has a scene showing a live water buffalo nearly cut in half with an axe or machete.


You are correct. Awesome movie, especially Redux.

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post #1571 of 3246 Old 04-12-2012, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

I think part of the problem is that hacking throw something ona a flat surface or that is not giving is a lot easier then hitting an arm, extended in the air that is going to give and push downward with the force when it connects, bend at the elbow, shoulder, whole body, etc.

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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Not relevant at all, especially since Raylan had Quarles in a firm arm lock. A large enough sharp blade with enough force is more than enough to remove a limb. As I said above, if you want examples just check out the research I mentioned. If you have the guts for it track down some old news footage of Rwanda as people were massacred. I can still to this day remember the scenes captured by a helicopter news crew at the time. You don't need posing on a chopping block to have your arm cut off.

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Originally Posted by oink View Post

IIRC, Apocalypse Now has a scene showing a live water buffalo nearly cut in half with an axe or machete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce73 View Post

If you go back and look at that scene, when Raylan grabs Quarles's wrist, it seems like he twists it inward which would secure the extended arm. And it does look as if it was severed pretty close to the elbow, as Raylan appears to be holding just the forearm. I don't have any problems with the plausibility of it. Besides it makes great TV. ;-)

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Originally Posted by fjames View Post

I don't know physics, but just to do something I figured 5lb for the cleaver (or was it 4 ...) and 90mph for the swing, and an online calculator gave ~1350 lb/ft of kinetic energy. That kind of energy against a firm object is gonna make a mess whatever it is - being a professional butcher's cleaver, all that energy is directed into a very small area (the edge) and will be multiplied to an extreme.

This is what I love about AVS. Hang the acting and plot but never miss the important finer points.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #1572 of 3246 Old 04-13-2012, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bruce73 View Post

If you go back and look at that scene, when Raylan grabs Quarles's wrist, it seems like he twists it inward which would secure the extended arm. And it does look as if it was severed pretty close to the elbow, as Raylan appears to be holding just the forearm. I don't have any problems with the plausibility of it. Besides it makes great TV. ;-)

I looked at it again tonite.
"The cut" is close enough to the elbow to be construed as such.


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I don't know physics, but just to do something I figured 5lb for the cleaver (or was it 4 ...) and 90mph for the swing, and an online calculator gave ~1350 lb/ft of kinetic energy. That kind of energy against a firm object is gonna make a mess whatever it is - being a professional butcher's cleaver, all that energy is directed into a very small area (the edge) and will be multiplied to an extreme.

Stupid math!


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This is what I love about AVS. Hang the acting and plot but never miss the important finer points.

Sooooo cynical....

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post #1573 of 3246 Old 04-13-2012, 07:40 AM
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All I can say is, if the arm cutting spoiled the episode for you, you definately don't want to watch Game of Thrones.

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #1574 of 3246 Old 04-13-2012, 09:51 AM
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All I can say is, if the arm cutting spoiled the episode for you, you definately don't want to watch Game of Thrones.

Indeed! If bloody scenes are too much for him, there is an episode in Season 3 of Mad Men, entitled Guy Walks Into An Advertising Agency, that he would certainly want to avoid.
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post #1575 of 3246 Old 04-13-2012, 01:42 PM
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For a minute there I thought that when Limehouse told Errol to leave town he was doing so because Errol had killed Trooper Tom. And I agree that Errol returning was either help out Limehouse and show his dedication to him.

Great episode.Once again, for the short screen time that Art had in the finale I thought his comments were hysterical.
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post #1576 of 3246 Old 04-13-2012, 06:53 PM
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I thought Limehouse evicted Errol because he sided up w/ one of the other miscreants (can't remember his name).

In space, no one can hear you scream . . .
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post #1577 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

I thought Limehouse evicted Errol because he sided up w/ one of the other miscreants (can't remember his name).

That was my thought.
Errol conspired (sort of) with Dickie and Lime ain't gonna go along with that.

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post #1578 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 07:48 AM
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Oink, do you find Limehouse's butchering of your brethren personally offensive?

Disclosure: I had bacon for breakfast today
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post #1579 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 08:24 AM
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I thought Limehouse evicted Errol because he sided up w/ one of the other miscreants (can't remember his name).

I don't think so. I though Errol was basically doing what Limehouse told him to do but he was sloppy and apparently wanted as a fugitive which is why Limehouse told him to leave and why it was such a surprise to him.

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post #1580 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 10:37 AM
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Oink, do you find Limehouse's butchering of your brethren personally offensive?

Disclosure: I had bacon for breakfast today

Not really....I am a cannibal.


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I don't think so. I though Errol was basically doing what Limehouse told him to do but he was sloppy and apparently wanted as a fugitive which is why Limehouse told him to leave and why it was such a surprise to him.

But why didn't Lime mention that to him at the counter?

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post #1581 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 12:17 PM
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Not really....I am a cannibal.



But why didn't Lime mention that to him at the counter?

I got the impression from that talk at the counter, that Errol having finally fulfilled his role in playing out the scenario he started without Lime's permission (and endangering the holler), was now being exiled from the kingdom. Lime always said there would be a price to pay after things played out, but they now had no choice and would follow through on Errol's gambit. Exile was the price.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #1582 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 01:48 PM
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I got the impression from that talk at the counter, that Errol having finally fulfilled his role in playing out the scenario he started without Lime's permission (and endangering the holler), was now being exiled from the kingdom. Lime always said there would be a price to pay after things played out, but they now had no choice and would follow through on Errol's gambit. Exile was the price.

OK, then Errol shouldn't have acted surprised.

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post #1583 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 02:18 PM
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OK, then Errol shouldn't have acted surprised.

He didn't know what the price would be and he'd been a good soldier since. Limehouse isn't a forgiving sort and couldn't support that sort of independent behavior with other troops to keep in line.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #1584 of 3246 Old 04-14-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

But why didn't Lime mention that to him at the counter?

My poor failing memory was that he did mention that.

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post #1585 of 3246 Old 04-15-2012, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

He didn't know what the price would be and he'd been a good soldier since. Limehouse isn't a forgiving sort and couldn't support that sort of independent behavior with other troops to keep in line.

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My poor failing memory was that he did mention that.

I guess I stand corrected....although I'm still confused.

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post #1586 of 3246 Old 04-15-2012, 09:04 AM
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Great Finale..

Couple of "beverage points"

All Bourbon is Whiskey, but not all Whiskey is Bourbon.

Jack D falls into the 2nd category...it's certainly not worthy of this fine show.

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post #1587 of 3246 Old 04-15-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by McDonoughDawg View Post

Great Finale..

Couple of "beverage points"

All Bourbon is Whiskey, but not all Whiskey is Bourbon.

It is if it comes from Kentucky. My current favorite? Blanton's. Extremely smooth.

It comes in the oddly-shaped bottle with the horse on top (and the horses are different for those who like to collect that sort of thing).
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post #1588 of 3246 Old 04-15-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I guess I stand corrected....although I'm still confused.

While I think that I heard what I heard, I think RonTemple has the full picture. I had forgotten about the earlier business between Limehouse and Errol -- that Errol had started much of everything in motion without Limehouse's sanction.

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post #1589 of 3246 Old 04-15-2012, 12:42 PM
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This is what I love about AVS. Hang the acting and plot but never miss the important finer points.

So the part I found unrealistic about this wasn't him severing the arm, it was the relatively small amount of blood, given the stress of the situation and the resulting shock he went into after having his arm cut off, shouldn't there have been blood everywhere not just seeping out from under him when he was on the ground?
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post #1590 of 3246 Old 04-15-2012, 01:57 PM
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shouldn't there have been blood everywhere not just seeping out from under him when he was on the ground?

Should have been squirting out like a fire hose . . .

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