So You Think You Can Dance -- Season Seven - AVS Forum
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, folks, it's just a bit more than two months before the new season starts, and even though we got a bit burned out (and burned by) two consecutive seasons last summer and fall, I thought it was time to start a thread for Season Seven.

Here's why... I was sitting here watching the 82nd Annual Academy Awards show when they had The League of Extraordinary Dancers come out to dance to a medley of all the nominated songs this year. If you remember, when that group danced on SYTYCD it was all guys, but this time it was about half female, and the first thing I did was start looking for familiar faces.

The action was too quick and there were very few close-ups, but I'm almost certain I saw at least Kathryn and Kayla up there (99.9% sure on Kayla, as that dancer DID get a sort of featured shot near the end and if it wasn't her, she has a near-double). My guess is there were more than just the two of them, which just goes to show once again what a ripe proving ground SYTYCD is for young dancers.

I can't wait to see what and who the new season brings us! And while I really enjoyed having Adam as a third, permanent judge, I think if they're going to continue that perhaps they should add a spot for a fourth guest judge.

Anybody who has advance insights (like Mac) is greatly encouraged to post here prior to the start date (use spoiler tags where appropriate).

I really have to say that ONE routine at the Oscars really got me to missing the show! I was NEVER really a big dance fan prior to SYTYCD, but something about that show and the way it brings out the best in young dancers has really moved me in ways I could have never expected.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I just got some definite confirmation on Kayla. Since I didn't watch the entire Oscars show (had other things to watch during the first half), I had clicked over to the webpage where you could see acceptance speeches to see the speeches for Mo'Nique and so forth and on the right-hand side they had some behind-the-scenes stuff, including a video short about choreography... I could recognize Kayla Radomski just from the little picture in the icon.

Sure enough, after a few seconds of dancing, the video cuts into first Travis Wall, and then Kayla introducing themselves as assistant choreographers for the Oscars (Adam Shankman being THE Choreographer, of course). They briefly flashed a name under one other person dancing as an assistant choreographer, as well, and I think that was also someone from one of the early seasons of SYTYCD (a guy), but I got the distinct impression that Travis and Kayla were taking the lead as assistants.

http://oscar.go.com/video/index?play...&clipId=252448

If the video still works like it was when I was browsing, this first clip will morph into a second (you'll probably have to watch a 30-second commercial before the first one about cervical cancer, or something), and then they'll keep going, but only the first two are on the dancing. The second clip is much longer and shows both Travis and Kayla sitting AT the table with Adam after doing a run-through with dancers auditioning for the show while he makes the cuts. He has another adult female close to his age between him and them, but I got the impression that the fact they, and few others were actually sitting AT the table with him meant he was at least asking their opinion, on occasion, as to who to keep or cut, so I think he's really taken Kayla "under his wing."

Considering she just turned 19 in January, and where she started less than a year ago, that's a pretty amazing journey, I think, and I'm now certain that was her in that medley dance. Although they didn't identify any other dancers, and although I couldn't find any official website for The League of Extraordinary Dancers, I still have the distinct impression that it was highly embellished with dancers Adam culled from both auditions and from his SYTYCD connections.

And just for those of you who think I'm "Kayla-obsessed." No, I'm not. I'm just really happy anytime I see ANY graduate of SYTYCD doing something that big that soon. Kayla's just really easy to pick out because she's so blonde, so tall, and has a sort of distinctive face.

This won't be a "Kayla" thread by any means. The fact that Travis has already choreographed many successful routines on SYTYCD means his position as an assistant choreographer on the Oscars means much less, as he's already an established choreographer, in my opinion, yet I still mentioned it because hey, he's there and he's an SYTYCD alum and that's how he got there!

My memory's not as good as some of you guys... Did he ever choreograph Kayla???
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:14 AM
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When does the season start and run through?

We are going to be in LA in late August and would love to see the show live.

Even if there is a show the week we are there, is getting in going to be nearly impossible?

Anyone know how that works?
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:24 PM
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I'm pretty positive I saw last year's champ, Russell on stage during the Oscars as well.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:27 PM
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Hey is that Elenore just to the left of 117?

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:34 PM
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OK. I'm convinced that's Elenore.

About 20 seconds after that first shot i posted, there's a better shot of her dancing and she does some of those quirky moves just like Elenore.

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Old 03-08-2010, 02:51 PM
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I'm horrible with names, but the opening bit at the Oscars with Neil Patrick Harris featured 3 SYTYCD dancers that I could make out: The 2 girls by his side at the start, and another guy whose head NPH puts his hand on when he gets lifted up.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with you, Mac, that's obviously Elenore. As I elected to NOT record the awards, since both my DVRs are pretty full and I'd probably never get around to watching it all, I saw only the second half, so I can't speak to who it might have been at the opening... But considering that Adam was the choreographer (and the fact that he appears to have a real soft spot for dancers he's worked with and liked from SYTYCD), it wouldn't surprise me if he used as many of them as possible.

One thing that sort of touched me during the second video clip was where he was doing the audition cuts and he said that every time, although he knows he can't put every dancer through, having been there, himself, every single cut is hard to make because he knows how it feels. I think there are a lot of people in his position who are a lot more callous than that. He could just be saying that for the cameras, but somehow I think that's the real Adam Shankman.

I feel dance requires much more practice, work and discipline than any of the other performing arts (not to belittle any of the others), and is definitely much more punishing on the body and has a much shorter career life because of what it does to your legs and feet. Perhaps that's part of why I have so much respect for young folks who have reached such heights so young.

I really wish SYTYCD could achieve a level where the prize money was more. These kids get 1/4 what the winner of "American Idol" gets yet work way harder.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:08 PM
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If you think about it, dance auditions are much more brutal than most other auditions. For most other disciplines, you at least get to perform a pre-rehearsed piece. But in dance you rarely do that.

Can you imagine going to an audition for a seat in an orchestra and the audition consists of the Director asking the Concert Master to play a riff and then you're required to immediately repeat the riff?

But that's what most dance auditions are like. Brutal.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep! They get to watch the assistant choreographers do it once, then maybe run through it with the assistants once, and then it's time for the "line-up." Dancers must have nerves of steel, because that truly WOULD feel like a "line-up" to me, I think -- lined up against the wall and offered "a last cigarette," lol.

Here's what I'm wondering for the moment, though. Although it's prestige for both Travis and Kayla to be choreographing, big-name dancers make more money, don't they? If they take the choreography career path, they may have a more secure career path and more steady paychecks, but then they can always do that after retiring from dancing, anyway. With their dancing talent, they have a shot at being "Stars" for at least a few years. Of course they can do both, like Paula Abdul did prior to becoming a singing star.

What to do? What to do???
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:18 PM
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Confirmed SYTYCD alums who danced at the Oscars:

Russell, Kathryn, Channing, Noelle, Jakob, Ellenore, Travis, Kayla, Nick (S1), Legacy

And maybe more.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought it looked like it was chock full of "my babies," as Debbie Allen likes to call them.

I'm curious as to how you confirmed that, however, Mac. You seem to have inside tracks on things (or one of you does -- sorry, but I confuse my "Macs," lol -- maybe both of you do). Or did you confirm simply by having it all recorded and playing in super-slow-mo, or maybe by reading closing credits that way?
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:33 PM
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I really wish SYTYCD could achieve a level where the prize money was more. These kids get 1/4 what the winner of "American Idol" gets yet work way harder.
Jeff

I've always felt that the contestants on AI and SYTYCD had different goals and far different long term outcomes. The singers want to be be "stars" and if they don't win AI or make it to the top few, they pretty much fade into obscurity. The dancers, OTOH, while they must want some degree of "stardom", use SYTYCD as their step off into a career as a professional dancer. They may not get their names out there 24/7 but they do work in the field and the show really seems to care about and take care of it's talented alums. It's one of the reasons (among many) that SYTYCD is a more rounded and rewarding viewing experience than AI is.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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While I totally agree with you, Cal (and just how many former contestants were dancing at the Oscars is proof), I still think the prize money should be more... Then again, come to think of it, the winner of AI also gets a recording contract, whereas the winner of SYTYCD gets the prize money and a cover story on a dance magazine, but I don't believe there's ANY guarantee of any sort of professional contract.

From what little (VERY little) I follow of AI, a fair number of the better second, third and even lesser placing contestants have still ended up with decent recording contracts and sales. With dancers, however, there's regular work in dance companies for anyone who's committed. They may not become "stars," but they'll be able to pay the bills.

Not that I'm interested to the point of any sort of obsession, but it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the percentage of finalists (people who actually make it to the competition stage) of both AI and SYTYCD, through the seasons, are making a living as dancers or singers (or related, as some of them could have cross-over talents). I'm guessing you're right, Cal, and SYTYCD probably has a higher success rate if only because all the folks involved with the show actually care more about the kids who compete on it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:10 AM
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I have to say that the dance numbers at the Oscars were a bad idea. I understand that one of the producers is involved with SYTYCD and was responsible for those segments, which had nothing to do with movies and bored most people.
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Ummmmmmmmmm, cwilson, It's been going on for 82 years now... Are you just waking up to the fact that roughly 89.739% of the Oscars every year is "filler" that "bores most people???"

They were going to play part or all of the nominated songs one way or another, so why NOT choreograph some dance to them? I guess they could have played part or all of each with clips of the movie it went with behind it (I think they've done that in the past), but perhaps that's considered passe this year. I think you have to live in the Hollywood mindset to understand why they do almost anything, such as neglecting to include Farrah Fawcett in the "in memorium" tribute, even though she had made several movies (more than Michael Jackson, actually)... Then again, the year John Candy died, they totally snubbed HIM but gave Raul Julia a sendoff like he was Sir Lawrence Olivier, or something, even though Candy had a much bigger resume and had doubtless drawn much bigger box office and was undoubtedly better known and more popular with the public... Perhaps they thought including Farrah or John wouldn't be "boring enough?"

Try figuring those folks out. You'll be richer than James Cameron is now if you can.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
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I have to say that the dance numbers at the Oscars were a bad idea. I understand that one of the producers is involved with SYTYCD and was responsible for those segments, which had nothing to do with movies and bored most people.

I expected to be bored by it, thought it was ill-conceived when they introduced it, wasn't sure it had much relationship to the movies when concluded, and I LOOOOOVE SYTYCD. But as it progressed, I was happy to have had it included. It was one high point in an extraordinarily boring Oscar show -- perhaps the most boring of all time. So they won me over. I was also pleased to realize that it seemed to have the most favorable audience response of the entire proceedings in that live auditorium -- if I'm not mistaken, the Oscar crowd was mightily impressed, especially with very little else to be amused by.

There was one sequence -- the "love" sequence I believe -- where the male came up off the floor and it looked like he did three or so 360s --almost pirouettes -- up some stairs, as I recall -- even after watching every moment of every season of SYTYCD with intense interest, that was still pretty amazing to me, and a move I don't remember seeing before -- reignited my anxiousness for the new season to commence!
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:13 AM
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Looking forward to another new season.

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Old 03-09-2010, 11:19 AM
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I am pretty sure I also so Lil C and Viktor.

What it looked like to me was that they had League of Extraordinary Dancers and added a bunch of SYTYCD dancers and made it a "Legion of Extraordinary Dancers".

It was pretty darn cool.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:55 PM
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I'm guessing you're right, Cal, and SYTYCD probably has a higher success rate if only because all the folks involved with the show actually care more about the kids who compete on it.
Jeff

The fact that Nigel started as a professional dancer (and, apparently, a very good one from the little that I've read) is probably a major factor in the way in which this show treats it's "babies". He knows better than anyone what it takes, how difficult it can be and how short the careers can be secondary to age and injury. I know someone who danced/acted onstage professionally and by his mid-thirties, he was done. The knees just couldn't hold up, a common tale, I'm sure.
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:30 PM
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...... With dancers, however, there's regular work in dance companies for anyone who's committed. They may not become "stars," but they'll be able to pay the bills.
....
Jeff

Watch The Company and you'll quickly be disabused of that notion.

The main character in The Company is based on a real-life principal dancer for the Joffrey Ballet Co who continues to work as a waitress to make ends meet. But at least she can afford her own apartment. The drones are sleeping 20 people in an apartment.

But dancers don't have it all that different from musicians and painters and writers. Big stars can make some big money, everyone else can make more money waiting tables.

BTW, even though I'm not a big fan of contemporary ballet, I'll still recommend The Company. If nothing else, it's interesting to see the "hanging ribbon" stuff done right, instead of seeing Pink doing a pale imitation at the Grammy's.
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:40 PM
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Freda posted the start date for SYTYCD over in his HOTP thread.

I can't recall if this has already been posted in one of the SYTYCD threads, so at the risk of repeating it:

Other Fox summer highlights:

--"Dance," as announced, bows Thursday, May 27. It will air Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays until June 10. That's when "Hell's Kitchen" returns on Thursdays.
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:43 PM
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While I totally agree with you, Cal (and just how many former contestants were dancing at the Oscars is proof), I still think the prize money should be more... Then again, come to think of it, the winner of AI also gets a recording contract, whereas the winner of SYTYCD gets the prize money and a cover story on a dance magazine, but I don't believe there's ANY guarantee of any sort of professional contract.

The interviews I've read with SYTYCD dancers left me with the impression that most don't really care about the prize money. They just want to dance on television for as long as possible. The top ten are virtually guaranteed a career in dance if they want it.

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Old 03-09-2010, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Watch The Company and you'll quickly be disabused of that notion.

The main character in The Company is based on a real-life principal dancer for the Joffrey Ballet Co who continues to work as a waitress to make ends meet. But at least she can afford her own apartment. The drones are sleeping 20 people in an apartment.

But dancers don't have it all that different from musicians and painters and writers. Big stars can make some big money, everyone else can make more money waiting tables.

BTW, even though I'm not a big fan of contemporary ballet, I'll still recommend The Company. If nothing else, it's interesting to see the "hanging ribbon" stuff done right, instead of seeing Pink doing a pale imitation at the Grammy's.

Well that's another thing a lot of us who live in "Middle America" have a difficult time understanding. Where I live, you can get a decent apartment for a few hundred a month; a nice house for a thousand a month, or so. In Manhattan, or the other major metro areas where big dance companies are generally located, you may pay $1,500/month or more for a 1-room apartment with kitchen, bedroom and living room all in essentially the same space... And the other "truth" is that a good waiter or waitress working in a nice restaurant can clear hundreds of dollars a night in tips -- or more (much less, of course, if it's just a chain restaurant, or diner).

I'll take your advice and watch "The Company" as soon as I have the time. I'm sure you're right. The statistic I always hear quoted on actors and actresses in Hollywood is that 95% of them make most or all of their income from waiting tables, parking cars, etc. and the overwhelming majority of the rest make their income from doing commercials, voice-overs, and other work that seldom, if ever gets you any real name recognition. I can assume only that the stats are similar for the other "arts" professions.

As for dancing, there was one major exception to that age rule -- Fred Astaire... While most professional dancers are "washed up" at 35, his career didn't really get going until about that age and he did incredible things on film for many years past. Then again, since he was doing them ON FILM we have no way of knowing just how many TAKES he got to get them right.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:59 AM
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In Manhattan, or the other major metro areas where big dance companies are generally located, you may pay $1,500/month or more for a 1-room apartment with kitchen, bedroom and living room all in essentially the same space...

That's why they don't live in Manhattan. New York has an extensive public transportation system.

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Old 03-10-2010, 04:16 PM
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^^^ Actually the Joffrey is in Chicago, but I'm sure the cost of living is pretty similar to areas of NYC where dancers live.
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:25 PM
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....

As for dancing, there was one major exception to that age rule -- Fred Astaire... While most professional dancers are "washed up" at 35, his career didn't really get going until about that age and he did incredible things on film for many years past. Then again, since he was doing them ON FILM we have no way of knowing just how many TAKES he got to get them right.
Jeff

I've heard a Fred and GInger story about one of their films (can't recall the title) but they had to dance up and down a staircase in it.

The story goes that they had to do a couple of dozen takes and at the end of day Ginger's shoes were full of blood.

IIRC, Barishnakov (sp?) lasted an exceptionally long time (or am I thinking of Nureyev?). I think one (or both of them) lasted into their 40's.
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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We're not at the END of the world, yet, but I could SWEAR I can see it from here!

This past Wednesday night, after watching "Human Target" (pretty good show -- I watch it live or time-shift it every week), I could find NOTHING of even "middlin" interest to watch at 9 p.m. (not being a basketball fan) and thus actually watched the AI results show (first time I've watched ANY episode of AI since the Writers' Strike season.

Ironically, the winner from that season, David ?????, was the first guest performer of the night, and I also watched partly because the promo at the end of "Human Target" said Ke$ha was going to perform, and I recently read a profile of her in Entertainment Weekly and wanted to see if she was as HOT when she peforms as she looked in EW (she is, pretty much, and not as much hype as I thought she'd be, although there was ENOUGH hype to go around).

I got to see the first of the Top 12 eliminated... Tasha, or Tanya, or whatever her name was -- all I know is that when my weekly EW came Friday, they had an article about the Top 12 with their picks of who is in WHAT order, and they had her tied for 10th place, so they picked about right. After she was the last one standing, she got to sing one last song, with the four judges having the chance to SAVE her (but they can do that ONLY ONCE during the entire Top 12, and it has to be UNANIMOUS). After ENDURING the song she picked (I assume she picked what she thought was her BEST song), I couldn't POSSIBLY IMAGINE how they'd save her, and they didn't -- in fact Nigel said it was a UNANIMOUS decision NOT to save her, lol.

All that did was REINFORCE my decision to NOT watch this show. I can't possibly imagine how someone who sings THAT BADLY -- off-key, flat, sharp, etc. got to the TOP 12 on a show THIS BIG! Freakin' Ridiculous! It would be like someone who would get cut in the first round of auditions on SYTYCD getting through to the Top 10 -- or even the Top 20 -- or even Las Vegas, in my opinion!

To me, there's just NO comparison! In a JUST WORLD, AI would be the "little" show and SYTYCD would be the BIG SHOW with the MEGA ratings!

It's JUST NOT FAIR!

By the way, I guess you all know "Dancing With the Stars" begins again Monday. It runs against other shows I watch, but I'll likely be time-shifting it, at any rate. I want to see how Evan Lysacek does, and, of course, I want to see how Chelsie Hightower and her partner do... And it should be sort of interesting what folks like Pam Anderson and Shannen Doherty do, lol... Gives us at least SOME dancing to watch until SYTYCD comes back in 2 months.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:47 AM
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I think there are a couple things at work here, Jeff. One, AI managed to do what no reality show has ever done in the "modern" 500 channel universe, maybe with the exception of the first season of 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire', and that is to become a cultural icon. It's a show the whole family can sit around and watch. And now, it's pretty clear to me that people watch it the same way they watched the 'Ed Sullivan Show' back in its day - force of habit. Even the loss of the sickly-sweet Paula seemed to have no dramatic effect on the vast numbers that tune into what I charitably call The Big Karaoke Show. Everyone likes to sing, and everyone thinks they sing better than they really do. And the lure of a Big Money contract for doing something that everyone thinks they can easily do at least as well as those perspective "idols" is apparently irresistible. You can identify with them. Money for nothing and the chicks are free, so to speak.

But SYTYCD is a different animal entirely. These kids actually have serious talent, and can do something very few of us can. You can't mentally imagine yourself easily doing what they do, but you can imagine yourself singing like Elvis every day in the shower. I think that "identification" has a lot to do with the differences in audience between the two shows. And by this time, AI is a beneficiary of it's own iconic status. It may be the only true "watercooler" show we've got left. Not that you or I would want to waste any time around the watercooler discussing it, but lots of folks apparently do. My wife included.

Nobody ever lost money underestimating the American public. We usually manage to sink to the occasion; thus the infuriating and enduring success of AI.
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I think you nailed it, Archie (unfortunately).

I think "Survivor" has a lot of that same "water cooler" element to it (as evidenced by a many of the contestants who end up on that show who seem to have thought they could do it, but couldn't)... Maybe "The Amazing Race," as well, since every single season there's at least ONE tema where one or both members doesn't know how to drive straight drive, or something equally ridiculous for someone going on a competition show like that...

I have way too many health issues to even consider applying for a show like "The Amazing Race," but if I did, I'd make SURE I looked at every previous season and covered every possible base and was up on my swimming/driving/climbing -- whatever they might throw at me as much as possible -- some of the "teams" on this show seem to think they were just going on "an extended vacation," lol (like the two models this season, who just keep getting LUCKY).

As for SYTYCD I identify with the spirit and the struggle of the young people, NOT with what they're doing or "living vicariously" through them, which I guess is what most AI viewers are doing... And of course I appreciate and am wowed by the dancing and choreography.
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