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post #361 of 1460 Old 11-30-2010, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There's no doubt that many viewers will not respond to the slow, deliberate character driven drama. Especially when you include gangsters, they expect shootouts and what-not. HBO knows it has a winner here, and is looking for the Emmy awards and critical praise as much as for viewers. Besides which, I doubt they really want to cancel a Scorsese series.

It was renewed for season two before it premiered.

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post #362 of 1460 Old 11-30-2010, 12:45 PM
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I'm betting on Nucky as the provider of special food seasoning, prolly via the housekeeper. The commodore was really the only obstacle to Nucky being #1, and Nucky is the one who stands to gain the most from his passing. Of course, the list of people who stand to gain could be pretty long.

Remember how the housekeeper tried to grab the cookies away when Jimmy came to visit?

That's probably true. And I don't remember the housekeeper trying to keep the cookies away from Jimmy. So I guess the housekeeper is another one on Nucky's payroll?

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post #363 of 1460 Old 11-30-2010, 12:54 PM
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Yes, but the dog is what throws me. I have to assume the dog suffered the same fate. IT would have to be someone who has access to the dog's food AND the Commodore's food. Unless the dog was eating people food.

I know of one scene that the Commodore put his food on the ground for the dog to eat it. So i Can say for sure that the dog died from Arsenic poisoning.
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I think you'd have to ask her . This particular subplot has/had no traction with me. I don't particularly care for the character as portrayed by the actress, the storyline or the other two actors involved. She could have been disaffected, unhappy and leaving for innumerable reasons. A lesbian/photographer relationship that went nowhere and wasn't entertaining was like putting butter ontop of margaine on a soda cracker...bland and tasteless (I'm not being sexist or hetero here, I'm mean tasteless as in tastebuds).

I have to agree. These characters just never materialized. It got to the point where I thought Marky Mark just wanted some girl on girl T&A just to see if he could put it into the show and no one would say anything.

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post #364 of 1460 Old 11-30-2010, 01:13 PM
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I love any scene that twisted T-man is in, but did anyone else think the baptism scene toward the end was a tad over the top?

Not even a little.

A G-Man with a gun is no one to argue with, not to mention the point in time & associated racial implications.

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post #365 of 1460 Old 11-30-2010, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

That's probably true. And I don't remember the housekeeper trying to keep the cookies away from Jimmy. So I guess the housekeeper is another one on Nucky's payroll?

larry

She, in fact, did try to take them out of the room while Jimmy was there. The Commodore told her rather harshly to leave them. Regarding the person behind the poisoning, I agree Nucky has the most obvious motive. Still, I don't think we've be given enough evidence at this point to know with any reasonable degree of certainty.
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post #366 of 1460 Old 11-30-2010, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

That's probably true. And I don't remember the housekeeper trying to keep the cookies away from Jimmy. So I guess the housekeeper is another one on Nucky's payroll?

larry

She's prolly Chalky's relative. But there's no way any shenanigans could go on in her kitchen without her knowing it. And they wouldn't have written that bit about her trying to grab the cookies for no reason.

The bigger question right now is whether Jimmy said anything to Commodore about the poison. This has implications either way.
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post #367 of 1460 Old 12-01-2010, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post

She, in fact, did try to take them out of the room while Jimmy was there. The Commodore told her rather harshly to leave them. Regarding the person behind the poisoning, I agree Nucky has the most obvious motive. Still, I don't think we've be given enough evidence at this point to know with any reasonable degree of certainty.

I wasn't doubting him, I just didn't remember. I'm a card carrying member of CRS. Hopefully we'll find out this season.

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post #368 of 1460 Old 12-01-2010, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

She's prolly Chalky's relative. But there's no way any shenanigans could go on in her kitchen without her knowing it. And they wouldn't have written that bit about her trying to grab the cookies for no reason.

The bigger question right now is whether Jimmy said anything to Commodore about the poison. This has implications either way.

Well when Jimmy discussed the issue with his mother he seemed to indicate that he didn't care if someone was killing the Commodore.

The maid is definitely involved as she is the only character we know of that has regular access to the Commodore's food. Since arsenic takes time to kill and since it is doled out in small doses in meals over the course of months either the maid did it or she was complacent in letting it happen.

Still the maid is not likely to be a large recipient in the Commodore's will and she would not gain anything from the higher level political implications of the Commodore's death. That being the case we are talking about a conspiracy with the maid and either Nucky or Gillian or both involved. That is if we assume that Nucky stands to gain politically and that Gillian is a primary beneficiary in the Commodore's will.

I do wish a horrible fate for Jimmy's common-law wife/mother of his child. As a combat vet I know that one of the things that keeps a man going when the cards are down is the idea that you have someone at home worth fighting for. For some it is their parents, but for many it is a wife/ fiancee / girl friend waiting at home that is the catalyst for continued perseverance in the face of brutal conditions. So the fact that she was cheating on him while he was in combat didn't sit well with me, but since she was unsure if he was alive I might be able to let that slide. Then he comes back and so she no longer has the excuse that "he might be dead" and what does she do? She keeps on going AND nearly get involved in a threesome, not "for love", but because they are doing it in France. So you are going to double-down on your infidelity because all the "cool kids" are doing it? Call me heartless, but I'm hoping she has a date with one of Richard Harrow's bullets in the season finale.

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post #369 of 1460 Old 12-01-2010, 08:41 PM
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Now that you mention Richard Harrow, the very 'matter of fact' delivery of his proposal to kill the (presumbly innocent) mother and sister of the Philadelphia gangsters was chilling. Harrow is another very interesting character. I would love to see Van Alden and Harrow meet up at some point, no telling what would happen.

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post #370 of 1460 Old 12-01-2010, 08:42 PM
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Now that you mention Richard Harrow, the very 'matter of fact' delivery of his proposal to kill the (presumbly innocent) mother and sister of the Philadelphia gangsters was chilling. Harrow is another very interesting character. I would love to see Van Alden and Harrow meet up at some point, no telling what would happen.

Yes, that moment got my attention too. "That'll make them pop their heads up".
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post #371 of 1460 Old 12-01-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fistofsouth View Post

I do wish a horrible fate for Jimmy's common-law wife/mother of his child. As a combat vet I know that one of the things that keeps a man going when the cards are down is the idea that you have someone at home worth fighting for. For some it is their parents, but for many it is a wife/ fiancee / girl friend waiting at home that is the catalyst for continued perseverance in the face of brutal conditions. So the fact that she was cheating on him while he was in combat didn't sit well with me, but since she was unsure if he was alive I might be able to let that slide. Then he comes back and so she no longer has the excuse that "he might be dead" and what does she do? She keeps on going AND nearly get involved in a threesome, not "for love", but because they are doing it in France. So you are going to double-down on your infidelity because all the "cool kids" are doing it? Call me heartless, but I'm hoping she has a date with one of Richard Harrow's bullets in the season finale.

but ok for soldiers to bang hookers, home and abroad ?
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post #372 of 1460 Old 12-02-2010, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by fistofsouth View Post

I do wish a horrible fate for Jimmy's common-law wife/mother of his child. As a combat vet I know that one of the things that keeps a man going when the cards are down is the idea that you have someone at home worth fighting for. For some it is their parents, but for many it is a wife/ fiancee / girl friend waiting at home that is the catalyst for continued perseverance in the face of brutal conditions. So the fact that she was cheating on him while he was in combat didn't sit well with me, but since she was unsure if he was alive I might be able to let that slide. Then he comes back and so she no longer has the excuse that "he might be dead" and what does she do? She keeps on going AND nearly get involved in a threesome, not "for love", but because they are doing it in France. So you are going to double-down on your infidelity because all the "cool kids" are doing it? Call me heartless, but I'm hoping she has a date with one of Richard Harrow's bullets in the season finale.

If you wish a horrible fate for Jimmy's girlfriend, what in the world do you wish for Jimmy? Let's see, he murdered a bunch of guys, walked out on his son and fled to Chicago, nailed a bunch of hookers, killed some more guys. Then he came back to AC and acted as if he had never left them. Then he kills another guy. Are we supposed to feel sorry for him because she cheated on him with another woman? I certainly don't.
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post #373 of 1460 Old 12-02-2010, 10:15 AM
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If you wish a horrible fate for Jimmy's girlfriend, what in the world do you wish for Jimmy? Let's see, he murdered a bunch of guys, walked out on his son and fled to Chicago, nailed a bunch of hookers, killed some more guys. Then he came back to AC and acted as if he had never left them. Then he kills another guy. Are we supposed to feel sorry for him because she cheated on him with another woman? I certainly don't.

Ditto. That's not cheating; it's an opportunity!

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post #374 of 1460 Old 12-02-2010, 04:23 PM
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but ok for soldiers to bang hookers, home and abroad ?

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If you wish a horrible fate for Jimmy's girlfriend, what in the world do you wish for Jimmy? Let's see, he murdered a bunch of guys, walked out on his son and fled to Chicago, nailed a bunch of hookers, killed some more guys. Then he came back to AC and acted as if he had never left them. Then he kills another guy. Are we supposed to feel sorry for him because she cheated on him with another woman? I certainly don't.

Cheating is cheating so no I don't give Jimmy or any other vet for that matter, a free pass for cheating on their woman. Still no one gets PTSD from changing diapers, scrubbing the floors or even using Lysol in their vag so I'm willing to give people that have been in a war zone a little bit more of a break on questionable behavior.

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post #375 of 1460 Old 12-02-2010, 05:13 PM
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I'm not into moralistic judgements about Jimmy or his wife. It boils down to this...

Nucky=interesting
Margaret=interesting
Jimmy=interesting
Jillian(G?)=very interesting
Agent Crazy=WTF?
Other supporting players and storylines=interesting
Jimmy's wife=waste of screen time and the character (perhaps due to the actress) should be dragged behind Ben Hur's chariot for a couple of laps to offset the bad karma she's creating for me on this show.

Don't care if Jimmy likes to do bad things to small animals (as he did as a recurring character on Law and Order) or wifey is the AC star of the local Burro "dance". He's still interesting and she kills all the momentum of the show whenever on screen.

A little harsh? Hopefully, she won't read this

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post #376 of 1460 Old 12-02-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

I'm not into moralistic judgements about Jimmy or his wife. It boils down to this...

Nucky=interesting
Margaret=interesting
Jimmy=interesting
Jillian(G?)=very interesting
Agent Crazy=WTF?
Other supporting players and storylines=interesting
Jimmy's wife=waste of screen time and the character (perhaps due to the actress) should be dragged behind Ben Hur's chariot for a couple of laps to offset the bad karma she's creating for me on this show.

Don't care if Jimmy likes to do bad things to small animals (as he did as a recurring character on Law and Order) or wifey is the AC star of the local Burro "dance". He's still interesting and she kills all the momentum of the show whenever on screen.

A little harsh? Hopefully, she won't read this

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post #377 of 1460 Old 12-02-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

I'm not into moralistic judgements about Jimmy or his wife. It boils down to this...

Nucky=interesting
Margaret=interesting
Jimmy=interesting
Jillian(G?)=very interesting
Agent Crazy=WTF?
Other supporting players and storylines=interesting
Jimmy's wife=waste of screen time and the character (perhaps due to the actress) should be dragged behind Ben Hur's chariot for a couple of laps to offset the bad karma she's creating for me on this show.

Don't care if Jimmy likes to do bad things to small animals (as he did as a recurring character on Law and Order) or wifey is the AC star of the local Burro "dance". He's still interesting and she kills all the momentum of the show whenever on screen.

A little harsh? Hopefully, she won't read this

I think that must be it for me as well. As other posters have so aptly pointed out, many, if not ALL, of these characters have questionable morals and yet I don't wish a fate worse than death on any of them. Jimmy's wife just drags me down. She's like Betty Draper on Mad Men; sure Don cheated on her left and right and could be mentally abusive, but when Betty started acting the fool I just wanted her to go away. The same holds true of Jimmy and his wife; they both have questionable morals, but Jimmy brings something to the table. Jimmy is smart, Jimmy is tough, Jimmy is an earner and Jimmy is a problem solver. His wife is the opposite; she's naive (People in Paris do it), she is weak (oh I'm stuck at home with this kid while he's having excitement in Chicago), she's a taker (why hasn't Jimmy sent me another envelope of cash this week?) and she makes problems (everything I just mentioned). Thus when her morals go off the rails I have no redeeming qualities to balance that against, while Jimmy, Nucky, Margaret and just about everyone else gives me at least something to pull for or the performer sells them well enough that I don't wish them off the show. Even Van Alden, while making Christians look bad, is interesting and compelling, but Ron Temple is correct when he says that Angela Darmody sucks the momentum out of the show.

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post #378 of 1460 Old 12-03-2010, 07:35 AM
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I'm willing to give Jimmy's wife's character a break. Afterall, watching this entire season, it basically comes down to the fact that all the characters of the show have issues - no one is perfect. I can also give her a break, as she was stuck raising her child basically alone (her mother in law gave her a little bit of help) while Jimmy was fighting in Europe and then off to Chicago. She had no $$$ to raise her son because Jimmy's $$$ was intercepted by Van Alden
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post #379 of 1460 Old 12-03-2010, 12:49 PM
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I'm willing to give Jimmy's wife's character a break. Afterall, watching this entire season, it basically comes down to the fact that all the characters of the show have issues - no one is perfect. I can also give her a break, as she was stuck raising her child basically alone (her mother in law gave her a little bit of help) while Jimmy was fighting in Europe and then off to Chicago. She had no $$$ to raise her son because Jimmy's $$$ was intercepted by Van Alden
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post #380 of 1460 Old 12-04-2010, 10:25 PM
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Speaking of harrows comment about killing the innocent family to get those guys to come out.

I found that interesting and hope they build on it because at the moment it was very out of character.

They made him out to be an ugly man but a good person, who once had a girlfreind, who he loved, and he also took very good care of nuckys gf (forget her name) kids. Then hes telling jimmy he should let him kill their families.

I hope they build on the insanity side of him. I was led to believe so far he was a war hero but a good person and a family man who only killed bad guys.
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post #381 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 12:09 AM
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Speaking of harrows comment about killing the innocent family to get those guys to come out.

I found that interesting and hope they build on it because at the moment it was very out of character.

They made him out to be an ugly man but a good person, who once had a girlfreind, who he loved, and he also took very good care of nuckys gf (forget her name) kids. Then hes telling jimmy he should let him kill their families.

I hope they build on the insanity side of him. I was led to believe so far he was a war hero but a good person and a family man who only killed bad guys.

I think you misread the character. Harrow was a high kill sniper that's extremely damaged, not only physically, but emotionally. Jimmy shares some similar characteristics...they've come to terms with their violence and have no moral center except loyalty. He may have been a nice guy once, but now he's a Doberman. Capable of emotion within his pack, but totally ruthless with outsiders.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #382 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 05:33 AM
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^^^
Don't forget the simple fact that he has long since learned to enjoy killing.
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post #383 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 06:12 PM
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I think you misread the character. Harrow was a high kill sniper that's extremely damaged, not only physically, but emotionally. Jimmy shares some similar characteristics...they've come to terms with their violence and have no moral center except loyalty. He may have been a nice guy once, but now he's a Doberman. Capable of emotion within his pack, but totally ruthless with outsiders.


I agree with this but as I mentioned he took such great care of Nuckys gf kids and they really warmed up to him. It still seemed out of character. You say he was a nice guy once, but he was a nice guy to them as well.
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post #384 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 06:57 PM
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So a few things i am unsure of after tonight.

Why is Nucky's brother meeting with the commodore? Didnt the commodore suggest to get rid of eli?

Also what did nucky do with jimmy's mom? I dont understand the history their when he said he pimped him out? How did Nucky do that?
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post #385 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 07:00 PM
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Also that 1 million did not cost rothstein any money considering he took those insurance policies out on those guys.

I cant remember if it was 500,000 or 250,000 on each.
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post #386 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
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I agree with this but as I mentioned he took such great care of Nuckys gf kids and they really warmed up to him. It still seemed out of character. You say he was a nice guy once, but he was a nice guy to them as well.

I'm not sure there's any reason that a cold blooded killer can't also be nice to kids.
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post #387 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 08:30 PM
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So a few things i am unsure of after tonight.

Why is Nucky's brother meeting with the commodore? Didnt the commodore suggest to get rid of eli?

The 3 of them are plotting Nucky's downfall and possibly his demise. Jimmy would become boss.
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post #388 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 09:08 PM
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Very interesting finale for the season.

I wish that Season 2 was starting next week.

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post #389 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 09:53 PM
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rdgrimes I appreciate the response, but as mentioned didnt commodore tell nucky to dump the brother?

With regard to your comment about him being a cold blooded killer and being nice to kids that was my point. Ron said he was a nice guy once but is now a doberman. I just reminded him how he took such nice care of schrodders kids, yet willingly suggested to kill the dellesso brothers Innocent family. It struck me as strange. The character seemed to be a cold blooded killer but who had a decent heart, as evident by his nice scenes with schroders kids reading stories and protecting them. Then out of the blue he suggests he should kill the delliso brothers family members. Just struck me as odd thats all.
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post #390 of 1460 Old 12-05-2010, 11:58 PM
 
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Well, Hitler loved his dog...anbd was probably nice to kids too. But you see, that's what makes this one of the best shows on TV...the characters are three-dimensional and multi-faceted. And, as Nucky said, it all depends on how much sin each individual can live with.
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