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post #661 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 02:33 AM
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Just found out the significance of Cicero. Didn't know that.
Possible Van Alden may be completely turned in next season

Thanks for the link! Good interview.

Steve
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post #662 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post

I love the way Nucky told his new wife that Jimmy “reenlisted” in the army. It was his sarcastic way of confessing, or setting the record straight, with his higher power. Otherwise why even admit that he bumped into Jimmy—he was shoving her face in it.

When watching last night, I thought he gave her that explanation in case she hears Jimmy's not around, she wouldn't ask any questions. But you're right, if that's the case, why even bother to tell her anything at all.

So, I have to agree, he was really telling her "I have no need to be forgiven"

And the look she had - she knew what happened to Jimmy

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post #663 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 03:33 AM
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Yup, great finale! I didn't see killing off Jimmy, too. Can't wait to see Nucky react to the deed transfer! Oink, thanks for the link. Hopefully Van Alden sticks around.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #664 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 05:34 AM
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Please know that that the first line of posts show up on the forum page (without opening the thread) for phone users.
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post #665 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 06:08 AM
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Please know that that the first line of posts show up on the forum page (without opening the thread) for phone users.

You can change this to the 1st post in the thread in the settings menu of your phone app.
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post #666 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 06:26 AM
 
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When watching last night, I thought he gave her that explanation in case she hears Jimmy's not around, she wouldn't ask any questions. But you're right, if that's the case, why even bother to tell her anything at all.

So, I have to agree, he was really telling her "I have no need to be forgiven"

And the look she had - she knew what happened to Jimmy

He should have said he went to mend his relationship with Eli and it is a sore subject but he is going to try.
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post #667 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 06:36 AM
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Lifted from the link above, worth reposting just in case you guys didn't watch this---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Iwio2YH1I

Larry

I thought we were cool de la?
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post #668 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 07:57 AM
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And ever since she donated her private stash of cash to the church it was inevitable that she was going to sign over the land to the church. At least it was blatantly obvious to me. Great all around show!

It wasn't obvious to me. It seemed she gave the cash as a way to "bribe God", as she seemed surprised when they confirmed she actually had polio.
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post #669 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 08:36 AM
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It wasn't obvious to me. It seemed she gave the cash as a way to "bribe God", as she seemed surprised when they confirmed she actually had polio.

The cash was to pay penance for her sin of sleeping with the bodygaurd. She was trying to clean the slate as she thought her daughter was paying for her sins.
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post #670 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 09:30 AM
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The cash was to pay penance for her sin of sleeping with the bodygaurd. She was trying to clean the slate as she thought her daughter was paying for her sins.

Right, and it wasn't enough. Even the Father said that her initial gift was going to pay for only the roof on their future building (or something to that effect). At that time we see that she is concerned-- that if miracles were not happening it was probably due to the fact that she didn't fully pay for her penance. And Nucky, flaunting in her face that you won't be seeing Jimmy around here anymore, was her wake up call to finish paying off her debts to God.

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post #671 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 10:12 AM
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Her hypocrisy (and cruelty to the hired help) is beginning to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Hopefully, someone will knock her off next season.

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post #672 of 1460 Old 12-13-2011, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Her hypocrisy (and cruelty to the hired help) is beginning to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Hopefully, someone will knock her off next season.

The only one she is cold to is the girl who was in competition with her for the bodygaurd. The maid/servant was the competition so Margaret tried to take her down as much as possible to keep herself in the hugest light. After she.slept with the bodygaurd however she lessened her tone.
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post #673 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The only one she is cold to is the girl who was in competition with her for the bodygaurd. The maid/servant was the competition so Margaret tried to take her down as much as possible to keep herself in the hugest light. After she.slept with the bodygaurd however she lessened her tone.

The maid is pretty sure Margaret and the bodyguard connected. Margaret knows the maid is on high alert and realizes that the maid could clue Nucky in on the relationship. Something will happen next season over this. For all I know Margaret could have the bodyguard knock off the maid to cover things up on of both their behalfs. I'm pretty sure Margaret knows the maid is just looking for an opportunity to stick a knife in her.
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post #674 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post

Right, and it wasn't enough. Even the Father said that her initial gift was going to pay for only the roof on their future building (or something to that effect). At that time we see that she is concerned-- that if miracles were not happening it was probably due to the fact that she didn't fully pay for her penance.

That really isn't the way I interpreted it. He said her contribution would pay for the roof, but they would need to pray for the other funding. When it looked like she thought he wanted more from her, he said that was not his intention. (Although, I concede that could have planted a seed in her mind.)

Her motivations are very confusing to me. Why piss off the one man who has been nothing but caring to her and her children? She could much more easily get her way if she just manipulated him, as she's done in the past.

The direction they've taken this season has removed likeability from most of the major characters. I still like the show, but it would be nice to have someone to root for. Richard is the only sympathetic one left. I hope he plays a major role in the next season.

Art
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post #675 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post

Margaret knows the maid is on high alert and realizes that the maid could clue Nucky in on the relationship.

I have been waiting for that shoe to drop....


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Her motivations are very confusing to me. Why piss off the one man who has been nothing but caring to her and her children?

I have been wondering too.
Considering the alternative to life with Nuck is poverty for her and her children....
She is not a stupid person, but it is odd behavior.

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post #676 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 10:48 AM
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Her change in behavior seems to have correlated with the Polio incident. Before that she helped Nucky by getting his records from his office. If that really bothered her she would have let him cook.
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post #677 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 11:33 AM
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Her motivations are very confusing to me. Why piss off the one man who has been nothing but caring to her and her children? She could much more easily get her way if she just manipulated him, as she's done in the past.
Art

Well, she felt empowered by the marriage, empowered by how doing that saved Nucky and how much he needed her. She still feels guilty about her part and compliance and obviously thinks that the more she donates to the church, the more she will be "spiritually" forgiven for her sins.

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post #678 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 12:47 PM
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My take on Margaret was that she is viewing the money as "evil", not Nucky. She knows that without the land he will be broke and so will she, so giving it away is her way of purifying him, and her.
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post #679 of 1460 Old 12-14-2011, 01:01 PM
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My take on Margaret was that she is viewing the money as "evil", not Nucky. She knows that without the land he will be broke and so will she, so giving it away is her way of purifying him, and her.

I don't think that she wants to get broke. When Nucky fed her the bogus lines about Jimmy enlisting, she played along while being shocked inside. I think it was gut instinct move to make up for his apparent evil...and to get back at him for being so. Guilt and punishment.

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post #680 of 1460 Old 12-15-2011, 03:45 AM
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Guilt and punishment.

She'll probably find what punishment is all about when Nucky finds out. Although, I think he really does care about her and the kids.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #681 of 1460 Old 12-15-2011, 07:01 AM
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She'll probably find what punishment is all about when Nucky finds out. Although, I think he really does care about her and the kids.

larry

The kids yes, I think she is expendable.
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post #682 of 1460 Old 12-16-2011, 08:00 AM
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Devastating finale. We trust the writers will preserve the show and move on but this was a huge huge huge risk. Still speechless.
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post #683 of 1460 Old 12-16-2011, 09:08 AM
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Devastating finale. We trust the writers will preserve the show and move on but this was a huge huge huge risk. Still speechless.

They don't think so. Read the interview with Winter linked in the last page or two.

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Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #684 of 1460 Old 12-16-2011, 10:25 AM
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They don't think so. Read the interview with Winter linked in the last page or two.

larry

As Winter alluded, they took the Nucky/Jimmy situation to it's logical conclusion. As they were noodling out how they would end the season, it was either going to be Eli or Jimmy. It was still up in the air with 3 eps to shoot. Pitt, seeing how the season was going actually asked if he was going to be killed off. Was told it was in consideration but no final decision was made. Pitt told Winter, he was on board if that's how it came down...just make it a great ending...and they did. They went for the most dramatic impact. If they had decided on Eli going, no one would have been shocked or surprised.

In the story, once Nucky made sure Eli was on board taking the fall, it was over for Jimmy. I'm not sure if he believed Jimmy or Eli. I kind of doubt that he believes either. But, Eli is useful. Jimmy couldn't be forgiven. A King removes rivals and enemies, so they won't come back to haunt them. Doing it himself, of course, was a statment and puts to bed the "you can't be 1/2 a gangster" question. Nucky's all in now.

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post #685 of 1460 Old 12-16-2011, 11:07 AM
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Doing it himself, of course, was a statment and puts to bed the "you can't be 1/2 a gangster" question. Nucky's all in now.

Even more interesting that he did it in front of several witnesses, in particular the man from Philly. I wonder if he thinks that bought him some loyalty.
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post #686 of 1460 Old 12-16-2011, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeny View Post

Guilt and punishment.

Yep, this is something known to all Roman Catholics.


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I'm not sure if he believed Jimmy or Eli. I kind of doubt that he believes either. But, Eli is useful.

AND blood is thicker than water...so to speak.


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Even more interesting that he did it in front of several witnesses, in particular the man from Philly. I wonder if he thinks that bought him some loyalty.

Probably.
However, it probably will also come back to bite him on the a$$.

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post #687 of 1460 Old 12-17-2011, 08:44 AM
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AND blood is thicker than water...so to speak.

Plus Eli is a follower and whatever nucky tells him to do, he'll do it. Would imagine jimmy would be hesitant/resistant to accepting anything nucky says for him to do. Jimmy wouldn't take the fall for two years in prison

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post #688 of 1460 Old 12-17-2011, 09:20 AM
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Plus Eli is a follower and whatever nucky tells him to do, he'll do it. Would imagine jimmy would be hesitant/resistant to accepting anything nucky says for him to do. Jimmy wouldn't take the fall for two years in prison

That's true but if given a choice in the pouring rain that night, Jimmy probably would have asked for his prison stripes too.

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post #689 of 1460 Old 12-17-2011, 09:54 AM
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Plus Eli is a follower and whatever nucky tells him to do, he'll do it.

Except when he doesn't do it....we'll see whether Eli will go quietly to the Big House.

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Would imagine jimmy would be hesitant/resistant to accepting anything nucky says for him to do.

Jimmy actually did say to Nuck (in the final episode) he would do whatever was necessary to make amends.
Of course, by then, it was too late from Nuck's POV.

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post #690 of 1460 Old 12-17-2011, 05:30 PM
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The cash was to pay penance for her sin of sleeping with the bodygaurd. She was trying to clean the slate as she thought her daughter was paying for her sins.

I thought it was pennance for selling her soul to a murdering gangster. Nucky
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