'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 12:58 PM
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A little history lesson about Harrenhal if anyone cares. I got a little carried away and originally had this part of my previous post but thought that it deserves jts post.

I thought Harrenhal looked great and for those of you that don't know about the history of Harrenhal, it is the largest castle in the entire realm. It is so large that it is impossible to hold, heat or garrison. The castle was built by slave labor and took 40 years to build. The original inhabitant and builder was Harren the Black. He was from the Iron Islands and had just conquered the Riverlands. The day his castle was complete was the same exact day that Aegon "the conquerer" Targaryan landed with his dragons at Kings Landing and started his conquest to unite the 7 kingdoms under him 300 years ago. Harren believed his castle was impenetrable and it would have been against men but Aegon had his huge black dragon Balerion the Dread and melted his huge thick stone walls with his pets black flame. This is how House Tully...Catelyn Starks family came to be Lord Prominent of the Riverlands because they bent the knee to Aegon seeing no other option.

Honestly I pictured something different for Harrenhal when I read the books but either way it still looks great.
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post #632 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 01:04 PM
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It's not just the darkness of her story that makes me wish for a different path, it's that she's so very young, and so much of her journey is internal... I just wonder how it plays on screen.

I remember tearing up a little...jk but I was happy as hell for her when she says "valor morghulis". That story line definitely needs to be told and there is no way around that.
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post #633 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 02:26 PM
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When will Storms End be shown in the opening title sequence?

I get the feeling Storm's End has been omitted -- instead they are in some unspecified coastal place somewhere south of KL but north of Highgarden.

If they weren't going to do the siege of Storm's End, there's no real point introducing another location that could be confusing to the Unsullied.
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post #634 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 02:31 PM
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I get the feeling Storm's End has been omitted -- instead they are in some unspecified coastal place somewhere south of KL but north of Highgarden.

If they weren't going to do the siege of Storm's End, there's no real point introducing another location that could be confusing to the Unsullied.

Ya good point. Most likely Ser Cortney Penrose will be completed left out as well as it really isn't necessary to move the story forward.
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post #635 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 04:23 PM
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My fav scene was his introduction last year when he guts and skins a deer while berating his son.

That was actually a Stag.... you know... the Baratheon Stag.

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post #636 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 04:56 PM
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Ya good point. Most likely Ser Cortney Penrose will be completed left out as well as it really isn't necessary to move the story forward.

Probably no mention of Edric Storm either? So the shadow assassin Melisandre gave birth to in the final scene last night is going to be the one that kills Renly rather than the one that kills Penrose. Basically they are combining the two events into one to will cut off a fair bit of story (which is needed for the TV show), but still shows the power of the R'hollr and the Red Priestess.
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post #637 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 05:55 PM
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Penrose was after Renly I think. Still important to know because it takes its toll on Stannis every time one is created. Edric Storm will pop up when they occupy Storms End after Blackwater. If they go to Dragonstone then I don't know.
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post #638 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 07:56 PM
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That was actually a Stag.... you know... the Baratheon Stag.

Ah, little do I know. It was about the same size and I must say, it was a very convincing scene. Guts, skin, oh my.

I can say this. If my father had given me a speech while gutting an animal, I'd remember the moment
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post #639 of 2221 Old 04-23-2012, 09:47 PM
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Since they lifted Darvos witnessing the "birth" almost verbatim from Penrose's demise, I instantly thought they would probably drop that part. It makes sense, saving time and budget as well as tightening the story. Its one of the changes they've done that gives me confidence for the future. Tywin for Bolton I'm not as sure of, because we don't get to see what an insane SOB Bolten is. Still, we'll see it soon enough, and maybe the showrunners thought it would be overkill...one picture worth a 1000 words sorta thing.(though in this case more like 2000 words) Just so they don't have Tywin actions being the same as Bolten's at Harrenhal. Tywin is much more complex than that.

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post #640 of 2221 Old 04-29-2012, 07:04 AM
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Is it just me or is anyone else a lil disappointed with the way the show has aryas story from the clash of kings book so far. Grant it she's no syrio but she gets a few licks in the book. Especially the fight when the group of soon to be the watch is attacked by city guard at the village. In the show she doesn't use any of syrios quick like a cat lessons or show her developed courage.

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post #641 of 2221 Old 04-29-2012, 07:56 AM
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Is it just me or is anyone else a lil disappointed with the way the show has aryas story from the clash of kings book so far. Grant it she's no syrio but she gets a few licks in the book. Especially the fight when the group of soon to be the watch is attacked by city guard at the village. In the show she doesn't use any of syrios quick like a cat lessons or show her developed courage.

I was curious about that too. Of course they tightened the whole fight, probably for time and budget savings. I've got to admit I like how they streamline the story a bit so I wasn't disappointed. I've got confidence we'll see her in action soon enough I'm thinking her escape scene will have more dramatic impact, with Arya's "talents" coming as a surprise.

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post #642 of 2221 Old 04-29-2012, 11:21 AM
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*** Spoilers for all you uninitiated ***


In response to the Arya storyline...This weeks episode is called "the ghost of harrenhal" and i believe in the books she considers the guard at the gate part of her body count but never counts any of the village attackers. 3 deaths for 3 lives is going to be a little far fetched I believe now especially with Tywin being at harrenhal rather than Roose. Why not whisper his name to Jagen?

What do you guys think?
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post #643 of 2221 Old 04-29-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

*** Spoilers for all you uninitiated ***


In response to the Arya storyline...This weeks episode is called "the ghost of harrenhal" and i believe in the books she considers the guard at the gate part of her body count but never counts any of the village attackers. 3 deaths for 3 lives is going to be a little far fetched I believe now especially with Tywin being at harrenhal rather than Roose. Why not whisper his name to Jagen?

What do you guys think?

I think you've had a few
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post #644 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

*** Spoilers for all you uninitiated ***


In response to the Arya storyline...This weeks episode is called "the ghost of harrenhal" and i believe in the books she considers the guard at the gate part of her body count but never counts any of the village attackers. 3 deaths for 3 lives is going to be a little far fetched I believe now especially with Tywin being at harrenhal rather than Roose. Why not whisper his name to Jagen?

What do you guys think?

Hadn't thought of that, its a very good point. Course, she's, what, ten? And she's never had direct contact with Tywin, might not be holding him responsible for the evil she's been exposed too.

Changing the subject... I've been following the nonspoiler thread too and can't help wondering what the nonbook readers are going to make of whats coming. Knowing how grim its going to get at Winterfell as well as in the north, I can't help worrying the show might turn off some viewers unfamiliar with the story line. I know I feel dread everytime they shift to the Wall or Winterfell, seeing people I've come to care about. and knowing whats going to happen to them. Its going to be a lot more shocking and depressing seeing it happen onscreen as opposed to words on a page. Any thoughts?

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post #645 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 07:46 AM
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BTW, Tywin was at Harrenhal in the books as well, just Arya was still in the kitchens at the time.
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post #646 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

BTW, Tywin was at Harrenhal in the books as well, just Arya was still in the kitchens at the time.

And at a certain point in the book, I believe she kicks herself for not naming Tywin. One of those deals where she couldn't see the forest through the trees.
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post #647 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 03:53 PM
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Hadn't thought of that, its a very good point. Course, she's, what, ten? And she's never had direct contact with Tywin, might not be holding him responsible for the evil she's been exposed too.

Changing the subject... I've been following the nonspoiler thread too and can't help wondering what the nonbook readers are going to make of whats coming. Knowing how grim its going to get at Winterfell as well as in the north, I can't help worrying the show might turn off some viewers unfamiliar with the story line. I know I feel dread everytime they shift to the Wall or Winterfell, seeing people I've come to care about. and knowing whats going to happen to them. Its going to be a lot more shocking and depressing seeing it happen onscreen as opposed to words on a page. Any thoughts?

Ya I don't think it will necessarily turn people off because Ned's death actually became a major selling point in the first season for many people. Most liked it because it was different than what we usually see on tv. I'm kinda looking forward to Winterfell falling because then we get to see Bran's story start to move forward. The one character I'm truly going to miss is Maester Luwin. I love that guy and I think the actor who plays him does an amazing job. The wall doesn't really fall apart...I think it actually becomes much more interesting because all the characters they show actually survive sans Mormont. Im impressed with how well Jon's storyline is following the book.

Couple complaints with this season:
1 - not nearly enough dire wolf scenes
2 - the tickler I thought was killed by the hound at the inn along with Poliver.
3 - what happened to the autumn feast and where are the Reeds...how will they be introduced if the feast doesn't happen?
4 - I always thought that arya included tywin in her nightly prayer...that's why I think it's weird that she doesn't just whisper the name to Jaqen and let the man do the rest.
5 - it should be explained that shadow babies are not free. It costs stannis a part of himself everytime one is created. Without this explanation why not create several more and send them into Kings Landing to kill Joff and. Cersei.

I really think they should have thought about doing 12 episodes instead of 10 so they would be able to better set up some of these situations. My fear is that soon the story will have too many holes and not make sense anymore to people who have not read the book.
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post #648 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

BTW, Tywin was at Harrenhal in the books as well, just Arya was still in the kitchens at the time.

Your correct In that. I just did some research and found that Roose took over Harrenhal when Tywin marched to the Westerlands to meet Robb Stark. Another option would have been to whisper the mountains name too because he was definitely on the list. I guess I can stop bitching about it now since in actuality it didn't stray too far from the books. The only difference was that they left out arya working in the kitchens which really wasn't a big deal at all. Hopefully Vargo Hoat will make an appearance when Roose makes his deal with him since he plays a big part when a certain renowned sword hand is cut off.
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post #649 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 04:33 PM
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I think Vargo Hoat is going to be cut out. Which is probably good, because the lisping would be nothing but laughter inducing on TV.

I think a lot of book fans are not prepared for just how much simplification is going to be needed as we go forward. A lot of beloved characters, moments and plots just aren't going to make it into these 10 hour per book adaptations.
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post #650 of 2221 Old 04-30-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

I think Vargo Hoat is going to be cut out. Which is probably good, because the lisping would be nothing but laughter inducing on TV.

I think a lot of book fans are not prepared for just how much simplification is going to be needed as we go forward. A lot of beloved characters, moments and plots just aren't going to make it into these 10 hour per book adaptations.

The other side of the coin is the series tightens up the plot, and since it focuses on fewer characters what happens to them has greater dramatic impact. Its sorta a 1/2 full-1/2 empty kind of argument, pick your side
But I did think during this one that it almost seemed the writers were assuming the viewer had read the books.

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post #651 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 06:23 AM
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Ya I don't think it will necessarily turn people off because Ned's death actually became a major selling point in the first season for many people. Most liked it because it was different than what we usually see on tv. I'm kinda looking forward to Winterfell falling because then we get to see Bran's story start to move forward. The one character I'm truly going to miss is Maester Luwin. I love that guy and I think the actor who plays him does an amazing job. The wall doesn't really fall apart...I think it actually becomes much more interesting because all the characters they show actually survive sans Mormont. Im impressed with how well Jon's storyline is following the book.

Couple complaints with this season:
1 - not nearly enough dire wolf scenes
2 - the tickler I thought was killed by the hound at the inn along with Poliver.
3 - what happened to the autumn feast and where are the Reeds...how will they be introduced if the feast doesn't happen?
4 - I always thought that arya included tywin in her nightly prayer...that's why I think it's weird that she doesn't just whisper the name to Jaqen and let the man do the rest.
5 - it should be explained that shadow babies are not free. It costs stannis a part of himself everytime one is created. Without this explanation why not create several more and send them into Kings Landing to kill Joff and. Cersei.

I really think they should have thought about doing 12 episodes instead of 10 so they would be able to better set up some of these situations. My fear is that soon the story will have too many holes and not make sense anymore to people who have not read the book.

1) Agreed
2) Yes, but they are definitely streamlining Arya's story
3) It is beginning to look like they aren't going to include the Reeds in the series. It seems like Osha is a combination of the Osha from the book + the Reeds. I hope I'm wrong because I thought the Reeds were important characters in the book, especially as it relates to Bran's development.
4) I could be wrong, but I don't remember Arya ever including Tywin in her prayers ... at least not when she was in Harrenhal.
5) They definitely need to explore that more in the series. Some people in the no spoilers thread are already asking the obvious question ... why not just unleash a bunch of shadows and take over the 7 Kingdoms tomorrow.
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post #652 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 07:41 AM
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1)
3) It is beginning to look like they aren't going to include the Reeds in the series. It seems like Osha is a combination of the Osha from the book + the Reeds. I hope I'm wrong because I thought the Reeds were important characters in the book, especially as it relates to Bran's development.

I'd consider this to be the first "bad decision" in plot development to date. The Reeds are not only fundamental to Bran's development, but they serve individual purposes and complement each other. I'll struggle if they just try to cover it just with Osha.
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post #653 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 08:54 AM
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Has GRRM ever commented on whether or not he feels any of the changes/streamlining have actually improved the story, compared to the books? In hindsight, with 10-15 years perspective on the first couple of books he might have some different thoughts on them now.
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post #654 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 09:38 AM
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I'd consider this to be the first "bad decision" in plot development to date. The Reeds are not only fundamental to Bran's development, but they serve individual purposes and complement each other. I'll struggle if they just try to cover it just with Osha.

Agree. Osha went off with Rickon in the book. IIRC, we have not heard from Osha and Rickon again in the books.

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post #655 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 03:20 PM
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I have not read the books. What really draws me to this show is that no one is safe. There are no really good or bad guys. There are those characters that you have empathy for and those only disgust. Not sure if the was GRRM's intention or not, but he created a world where Christianity does not exist. I wonder if our world would be like GOT if Christianity did not exist. Don't want to get into a religous fight but was just wondering.
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post #656 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 04:20 PM
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I have not read the books. What really draws me to this show is that no one is safe. There are no really good or bad guys. There are those characters that you have empathy for and those only disgust. Not sure if the was GRRM's intention or not, but he created a world where Christianity does not exist. I wonder if our world would be like GOT if Christianity did not exist. Don't want to get into a religous fight but was just wondering.

Actually medieval times weren't that much different, sans the magic, even with Christianity...pretty cruel times in general from the dawn of history, but the Dark Ages, Middle Ages through the Rennesiance with some loving oversight from the church featured some characters that would be a fit in Westeros (which doesn't even have an Inquisition...as far as I know).

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #657 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jpillar View Post

I have not read the books. What really draws me to this show is that no one is safe. There are no really good or bad guys. There are those characters that you have empathy for and those only disgust. Not sure if the was GRRM's intention or not, but he created a world where Christianity does not exist. I wonder if our world would be like GOT if Christianity did not exist. Don't want to get into a religous fight but was just wondering.

Christianity does exist tho. It goes by a different name called the faith of the seven.
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post #658 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 05:54 PM
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It is a little ridiculous if they decide to bring a 4 year old north of the wall. One thing is for certain tho is that the group will be better protected by having a 2nd direwolf with them. Honestly tho I'm pissed that the reeds arent going to be in it. This also screws up Davos' plot as well since manderley now has no reason for a smuggler to go to skagos. I think i have pretty much confirmed that the reeds aren't in it since I could find nothing on jojen or meera casting. Bran is also not going to find out anything about his aunt lyanna and how rhaegar and her first met at the tourney @ harrenhal.

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post #659 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 06:06 PM
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More than the lack of Christianity, its the lack of technological change that sets this world apart. From the way its written, everyday life seems to be at the same technological level it was a 1000 years ago, or even longer. Feudal life has endured seemingly forever, with none of the changes scientific advances brought to our world. What changes there have been are along the lines of what we would call the supernatural-dragons or the lack thereof, magic, wildfire, the wights...This has allowed the fuedal system to become rigid and formalized to a much greater extent than our world's ever was. The present is defined by the past. It is not in their mindset to look to the future. or to create something new.

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post #660 of 2221 Old 05-01-2012, 06:08 PM
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