'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 03:18 PM
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Maybe HBO just isn't your cup of tea, what they've done in this show is not any different than what they've been doing for as long as I can remember, it's one of the things that makes HBO programs "real", they don't pull a lot of punches, and when they do "punch" it usually isn't just for the sake of it, it has meaning within the story. You want to see sex for the sake of having sex watch some of the Starz productions. HBO may cross a few lines for some people, but that's what sets their product apart from the also-rans.
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post #92 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mirak View Post

It's not the nudity that bothers me, it's the graphic sex. Even if it is in the books, it just isn't necessary on screen. It isn't even necessry in order to be "faithful to the books." You can inform the viewers that somebody is a sex-fiend without showing it. You can inform the viewers that somebody is raped without showing it. Thus, I don't really buy the "character devlopment" argument. Does it really enhance a character to know that, hey, he really likes it doggie-style!

But there wasn't even hardly any graphic sex, really, except I guess the final scene treating us to butt cheeks and thrusting. Some off-screen sounds and then just naked girls running around in the whorehouse; dry-humping and a few breasts at the wedding ceremony; even the powerful consummation scene has Drogo bending Dany over and then CUT. Can't show much less than that.

You say you can inform without showing. But who says that's better? Alternatively, you can just go ahead and show it too. Why should a storyteller not use all the tools at his disposal and decide what's best for each scene, rather than arbitrarily requiring sex to always be off-screen? Your argument could be used against just about anything; I mean, you can inform the viewer that a kid was pushed out of a window, you don't have to show it.

I would agree with a previous poster that Dany's scenes were necessary and powerful. The impact of her vulnerability and submission to the males in her life would have been much less profound with a fully-clothed lecture from her brother or a post-encounter reaction shot of her first night with Drogo or whatever.
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post #93 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mirak View Post

Suggested? Try explicit. Again, I fail to understand why we have to see porn in order to appreciate the story or characters. You can suggest it and even show it in a more tastful way.

I agree that HBO may very well turn off just many viewers as it turns on (pun intended) with the prurient approach.

If you can honestly say you'd be comfortable watching this show with your mother or daughter, well, more power to you.

I really think you're going to have trouble with this. It's not going to get better in regards to sex and violence and from what we've seen they've chosen to depict it as written. BTW, my parents are gone and my kids are grown, but were my folks alive, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable if they chose to watch and I'm sure my kids would feel fine about watching it with me. If they didn't, they wouldn't with no hard feelings either way.
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I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #94 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 03:39 PM
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I have to agree that they must have dropped big bucks on this series. The scenery is just gorgeous.
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post #95 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by goneten View Post

I personally am not offended by the inclusion of any amount of sex or violence, but, again, I wouldn't be surprised if it causes almost as many people to tune out as tune in. It gets people talking, though, and we all know there's no bad publicity.

- I'd hate to have lower ratings due to people being turned off by the amount of sex and violence in the TV series, but I'd hate it even more if the TV series was diluted to a PG-13 affair. Especially when the books are much more graphic and disturbing than the TV series could ever be.
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post #96 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 03:44 PM
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You have those TV ratings before each show and can't you lock out MA content in the D* boxes and DVRs? I never bother to but I would assume parents are using that option or they wouldn't bother putting that in.

Sopranos wasn't the first HBO show to feature nudity and situations that are not family-friendly. But as popular as it was, it was never for kids as there were depictions of murder, rape, etc.
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post #97 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

I really think you're going to have trouble with this. It's not going to get better in regards to sex and violence and from what we've seen they've chosen to depict it as written. BTW, my parents are gone and my kids are grown, but were my folks alive, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable if they chose to watch and I'm sure my kids would feel fine about watching it with me. If they didn't, they wouldn't with no hard feelings either way.

Wow, your kids would be comfortable watching those sex scenes with you? Thats... interesting?

And from what we've scene, HBO has not depicted it as written. Many who have read the books complained that they tured the wedding night scene into more of a rape. That's just HBO doing what HBO does. It proves my point.

Many commenters seem to be interpreting from my comments that I am some sort of prude or HBO hater. Neither could be further from the truth. I'm an HBO subscriber, and I subscribe almost exclusively for their series. I enjoyed the Sopranos. I enjoyed Deadwood. I enjoyed Rome. I enjoy Entourage. I like these shows. I just wish they would dial back the graphic sex. It is not necessary to tell the story. True Blood is a good example of where HBO went overboard. I hope they don't do the same with Game of Thrones.
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post #98 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

You have those TV ratings before each show and can't you lock out MA content in the D* boxes and DVRs? I never bother to but I would assume parents are using that option or they wouldn't bother putting that in.

Sopranos wasn't the first HBO show to feature nudity and situations that are not family-friendly. But as popular as it was, it was never for kids as there were depictions of murder, rape, etc.

I ahve to agree with most folks that the sex and violence in this show dosent bother me. Actually this show is quite tame so far compared to shows HBO has done in the past:
Sex:
Tell Me You Love Me
Carnivale
Entourage
True Blood
Boardwalk Empire
Oz
Hung

Violence:
The Wire
Sopranos
Carnivale
True Blood
Boardwalk Empire
Oz
The Pacific

The above are just to name a few. If peopel dont knwo what they are getitng into with this show from the beginning ratings AND all of the previews\\pre-reviews bascially throwing the sex out there then not sure what to think.

This is NOT a show for kids and was never meant to be. They have been playing up the shows as Lord of the Rings with sex.

I especially dont have an issue since this is part of the story that has already been written has it if not in more graphic detail. I mean really what I saw last night was no worse than most of the R rated moveis we see if not a LOT more tame than some.

I dont think that many people who have puritan values are watching HBO, as most of thier programming would offend them in some form or fashion.
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post #99 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 04:41 PM
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And from what we've scene, HBO has not depicted it as written. Many who have read the books complained that they tured the wedding night scene into more of a rape. That's just HBO doing what HBO does. It proves my point

LOL, no. Really the only thing dropped from the book there is Drogo untying his hair.
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post #100 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mirak View Post

Wow, your kids would be comfortable watching those sex scenes with you? Thats... interesting?

I'm pushing 60. I've got kids ranging from 40-24. All are either married or couples. It's a blend of 2 marriages. We've been able to escape the parental role into a friendly relationship between all of us...we just happen to be the senior partners. Sex is discussed openly among all parties including spouses without judgement or prurience, just healthy clean fun. Entertainment is subjective and there might be some of us that feel as you do. But, if they didn't like it, they wouldn't watch. They also wouldn't complain if the rest of us did...or wish it was something else so they didn't feel uncomfortable. They'd either watch and enjoy it for what it is or decide to not watch. There's plenty of other content out there.

Sorry to preach, but I like my entertainment rough with an edge, if it's well done...and this looks to be. It's supposed to evoke RAW emotions. If you're slightly shocked, it hits harder. That's the formula.

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And from what we've scene, HBO has not depicted it as written. Many who have read the books complained that they tured the wedding night scene into more of a rape. That's just HBO doing what HBO does. It proves my point.

Splitting hairs...a director's choice that changes nothing but possibly some future scenes between the actors. There will be others and they may be more stark. Whether it's depicted as a rape or not, the scene was in the book with largely the same result.

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Many commenters seem to be interpreting from my comments that I am some sort of prude or HBO hater. Neither could be further from the truth. I'm an HBO subscriber, and I subscribe almost exclusively for their series. I enjoyed the Sopranos. I enjoyed Deadwood. I enjoyed Rome. I enjoy Entourage. I like these shows. I just wish they would dial back the graphic sex. It is not necessary to tell the story. True Blood is a good example of where HBO went overboard. I hope they don't do the same with Game of Thrones.

You like alot of the same shows I do, but I've got to ask "What's wrong with graphic sex"?

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #101 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 05:36 PM
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LOL, no. Really the only thing dropped from the book there is Drogo untying his hair.

Hardly. Reread the relevant chapter and rewatch the scene. The writers took a scene where she was a reluctant, but ultimately willing participant and turned into a rape scene.

I can understand why the writers did this. She becomes quite miserable before she obtains additional guidance from her handmaidens, and my guess is they attempted to represent that in this one scene. Problem is...they got it horribly wrong as compared to the actual book event.
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post #102 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mirak View Post

And from what we've scene, HBO has not depicted it as written. Many who have read the books complained that they tured the wedding night scene into more of a rape. That's just HBO doing what HBO does. It proves my point.


It's not HBO...it's Neil Jordan's choice. Look. as a channel, I hate HBO...not because of sex and violence, but because of their policy of altering movies. The ONLY reason I still have it is because of shows like BOARDWALK EMPIRE and, now THRONES. The content is dictated by the material. There was no graphic sex/violence in JOHN ADAMS, for example. Or on CURB YOUR ENTUSIASM. Or BORED TO DEATH. Simply put, the show's creators determine the look, style, and content (and with THRONES, the original source material as well...already toned down for the series, as others have noted). HBO is just an outlet. And believe me, THRONES is MOTHER GOOSE compared to SPARTACUS or AMC's WALKING DEAD (both of which I also love). Some shows are geared to open-minded, mature adults. Those easily offended need not watch (or block, if you're worried about the kiddies, who probably see much worse on the Net). Or, if you'd prefer a tame medieval series, watch CAMELOT. God save us from getting to a point where all we can find is "non-offensive" programming.
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post #103 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 05:45 PM
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People, please try not to compare the book to the program. Yes, it would be nice to be precise but this incessant comparing is bringing up spoilers as to where we are going.

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post #104 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rflor View Post

Hardly. Reread the relevant chapter and rewatch the scene. The writers took a scene where she was a reluctant, but ultimately willing participant and turned into a rape scene.

I can understand why the writers did this. She becomes quite miserable before she obtains additional guidance from her handmaidens, and my guess is they attempted to represent that in this one scene. Problem is...they got it horribly wrong as compared to the actual book event.

I did reread it, just last week. Different takes on the same scene. Unless they linger on it for 5 more minutes and set it to some soft-core synth, or lay over some narration, I don't see how they could convey it as well as in the book.
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post #105 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't think HBO would "go there" and would change up certain elements of the story, specifically the incest and the child-rape elements, but they went there...

Great stuff, there hasn't been a good fantasy/sci-fi series on HBO since Spawn, so it's been a long time coming.

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post #106 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

People, please try not to compare the book to the program. Yes, it would be nice to be precise but this incessant comparing is bringing up spoilers as to where we are going.

+1

I'm getting afraid to read much more of the thread for fear spoilers are going to leak. I'm a clean slate, I haven't read any of the books and know little to nothing about them.
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post #107 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 07:22 PM
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Suggested? Try explicit. Again, I fail to understand why we have to see porn in order to appreciate the story or characters. You can suggest it and even show it in a more tastful way.

I agree that HBO may very well turn off just many viewers as it turns on (pun intended) with the prurient approach.

If you can honestly say you'd be comfortable watching this show with your mother or daughter, well, more power to you.


Sex is a big component of the books and, again, HBO is just depicting that. Anyone who has read the books knows this. BTW, nothing I saw last night would fall under my definition of porn. Yeah, it was very clear what Jamie and Cersei were doing but all you could see was the motion.

I think GoT may not be the show for you. I can tell you that if the producers continue to stay true to the books then there's only going to be more sex than what you saw last night and certainly not less.

No, I wouldn't be comfortable watching it with anyone but my wife but what does that have to do with anything? Is HBO supposed to be making a Family version of GoT? If not then it's not meant to be viewed with your daughter.
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post #108 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rflor View Post

Hardly. Reread the relevant chapter and rewatch the scene. The writers took a scene where she was a reluctant, but ultimately willing participant and turned into a rape scene.

I can understand why the writers did this. She becomes quite miserable before she obtains additional guidance from her handmaidens, and my guess is they attempted to represent that in this one scene. Problem is...they got it horribly wrong as compared to the actual book event.

I agree it's not like the book. I'm not sure why they took that direction but given how well they handled everything else I'm willing to go with the flow and see if they had a good reason for changing it. I'm not sure if something as complicated as the Dany/Drogo arc can be easily adapted to film.
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post #109 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 07:48 PM
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Interesting looking series. I have no knowledge of the story, book, etc. I assume it's a fantasy. Also assume whatever time frame depicted includes the obligatory modern language ala everything else we get these days.

Right?
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post #110 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting looking series. I have no knowledge of the story, book, etc. I assume it's a fantasy. Also assume whatever time frame depicted includes the obligatory modern language ala everything else we get these days.

Right?
It depicts no specific time age because it's completely fantasy. But of course we get the obligatory English accents because that's what people have come to expect in any fantasy tale involving Knights and Magic these days.

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post #111 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 10:03 PM
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What makes the books unique among fantasy series is the sex and modern profanity. Also, they generally read more like modern novels - think Lord of The Rings meets the Godfather. The element of magic in them is very small. However, they do adhere to the rule of being pre-gunpowder. Absolutely briliant. Now, if only the author would pick up the pace (or it will end up languishing the way Wheel Of Time did before Jordan died)!

My view of the timeframe is circa 1200 A.D.

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post #112 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 10:09 PM
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Speaking as someone who absolutely hates to read (except for a newspaper), you guys are making me awfully curious about these books.
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post #113 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 10:31 PM
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we may have to start a new thread with NO BOOK references/spoilers ...because when someone throws in a comparison to the book, sometimes it gives away possible future plot developments.

thread closed
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post #114 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 10:42 PM
 
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I personally am not offended by the inclusion of any amount of sex or violence, but, again, I wouldn't be surprised if it causes almost as many people to tune out as tune in. It gets people talking, though, and we all know there's no bad publicity.
You misquoted. I did not post any of the above.
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post #115 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaking as someone who absolutely hates to read (except for a newspaper), you guys are making me awfully curious about these books.
Just remember if you commit to reading the books there'll probably never be a resolution as George won't get around to finishing them. That's OK though, I read most of them a decade ago and they were great, and plan to revisit them sometime in the future.

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post #116 of 2221 Old 04-18-2011, 11:31 PM
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Is this supposed to run as a limited miniseries, or is it an ongoing show? The first ep was off the scale. even by HBO standards. All I could think though was that this show is going to need Sopranos at their peak type numbers for HBO to justify the cost. I gotta think there are groups making theatrical movies that wish their projects had the production values that Game of Thrones has.
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post #117 of 2221 Old 04-19-2011, 04:59 AM
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Is this supposed to run as a limited miniseries, or is it an ongoing show? The first ep was off the scale. even by HBO standards. All I could think though was that this show is going to need Sopranos at their peak type numbers for HBO to justify the cost. I gotta think there are groups making theatrical movies that wish their projects had the production values that Game of Thrones has.
The first season follows the arc of the first book -- 10 episodes in total. So far, there are a total of 4 books published, with a 5th expected in July.

HBO hasn't announced future plans, but you have to think they are planning for at least a second season give then funds they poured into set and costume design for season 1.

As others have pointed out, GRRM is not known for his punctuality. It took him 6 years to finish book 5, and many think that was only due to a looming threat from HBO. Also, each book is in excess of 700 pages, so it makes for some interesting writing skills to convey the theme across.
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post #118 of 2221 Old 04-19-2011, 05:11 AM
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Another probable winner from HBO.
Know absolutely nothing about the books, but really enjoyed the opener.

Looking forward to the next installment...
Ditto, wonder if by season end will i get the books
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post #119 of 2221 Old 04-19-2011, 05:21 AM
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- I'd hate to have lower ratings due to people being turned off by the amount of sex and violence in the TV series, but I'd hate it even more if the TV series was diluted to a PG-13 affair. Especially when the books are much more graphic and disturbing than the TV series could ever be.
Have people seen Spartacus? It was a huge hit and with more sex and violence. Have no worries if the story is told and done well.
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post #120 of 2221 Old 04-19-2011, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr
we may have to start a new thread with NO BOOK references/spoilers ...because when someone throws in a comparison to the book, sometimes it gives away possible future plot developments.
I said this earlier if people want to discuss the books as it relates to the show they should create a new thread. That way there is no chance of possible spoilers happening.
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