'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 74 - AVS Forum
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post #2191 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
I will say, however, that there are clues in the show .. even early in the 4th season, Oberyn drops a clue .. and, like I said earlier, .
Maybe I missed it. What did he say or which episode? I will be re-watching the 4th season soon. You can PM it if you want.

p.s. this quoting system flat sucks.
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post #2192 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post
Maybe I missed it. What did he say or which episode? I will be re-watching the 4th season soon. You can PM it if you want.

p.s. this quoting system flat sucks.
Yep, the quote system is crap ..


I don't have any problem posting it here .. but you'll need to do your homework ..

Listen closely to what Oberyn says early on in "Two Swords" .. around the "Tell your father I'm here, and tell him the Lannisters aren't the only ones who pay their debts.” speech ..

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post #2193 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 11:51 AM
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This makes me feel even worse about the Tysha omission:



They set up the Tysha backstory, then just discarded it.

Last edited by RobertR; 06-17-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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post #2194 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Yep, the quote system is crap ..


I don't have any problem posting it here .. but you'll need to do your homework ..

Listen closely to what Oberyn says early on in "Two Swords" .. around the "Tell your father I'm here, and tell him the Lannisters aren't the only ones who pay their debts.” speech ..
I'll have to check it out this evening. Thanks for the tip.
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post #2195 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 03:02 PM
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To save you all time, Oberyn says that Rhaegar left his sister for another woman and that that started a war.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #2196 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
This makes me feel even worse about the Tysha omission:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76l53LukE8


They set up the Tysha backstory, then just discarded it.
I remembered that they did set it up when Tyrion first met Shae -- thanks for finding that. That was early on and perhaps they didn't think that it fit their plans to bring it up again.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #2197 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post
To save you all time, Oberyn says that Rhaegar left his sister for another woman and that that started a war.
Part of the fun in finding clues is to work to get them ..

Uncle Willie


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post #2198 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Part of the fun in finding clues is to work to get them ..
Better not tell me about any surprise parties coming up . . ..

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #2199 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post
Better not tell me about any surprise parties coming up . . ..

You know I've said many times I believe all dialog can mean something .. maybe not immediately .. but somewhere along the line ..

The writers, and I know some will think this is a stretch, throw in a line sometimes that just plain overshadows the rest of the dialog .. when Oberyn said "Tell your father I'm here, and tell him the Lannisters aren't the only ones who pay their debts.” .. many viewers just hooked in on that one line .. rightfully so .. it's a great line ..

But the Devil can be present in the details ..

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post #2200 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
This makes me feel even worse about the Tysha omission:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76l53LukE8


They set up the Tysha backstory, then just discarded it.
Ah yes, I remember this scene. Discarded? Only for some. The TV Omission (if you like) plays well enough. I would love the extra detail, but like so many things...not enough time.
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post #2201 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 05:15 PM
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In my opinion, if you don't think that Rhaegar knocked up, and ran off with Lyanna (she coming willingly) to the Tower of Joy, where she gave birth to their child Jon "Snow", then, you know nothing.
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post #2202 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by John dhein View Post
In my opinion, if you don't think that Rhaegar knocked up, and ran off with Lyanna (she coming willingly) to the Tower of Joy, where she gave birth to their child Jon "Snow", then, you know nothing.
It definitely seems to be the most likely explanation currently. However, the show hasn't divulged this much information yet.

By the way, the only nice thing about the forum upgrade is no longer having to concern myself with spoiling people on the main page.
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post #2203 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 06:41 PM
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I thought he was Ned's bastard son, which is why Cat hated him.
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post #2204 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I thought he was Ned's bastard son, which is why Cat hated him.
I think that was the cover story. Remember what happened to Daenerys Targaryen, the stream of death dealers sent her way. The existence of a Targaryen who is also the son of a Stark, who is a male would guarantee Jon Snow's extinction.

So Ned brings home a child who is supposedly his. But is actually his sister's by Rhaegar, the well loved Targaryen prince. He says it's his, guaranteeing Catelyn's enmity.
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post #2205 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
I think that was the cover story. Remember what happened to Daenerys Targaryen, the stream of death dealers sent her way. The existence of a Targaryen who is also the son of a Stark, who is a male would guarantee Jon Snow's extinction.

So Ned brings home a child who is supposedly his. But is actually his sister's by Rhaegar, the well loved Targaryen prince. He says it's his, guaranteeing Catelyn's enmity.
Not to mention the most important point:

Robert was betrothed to Lyanna Stark (and infatuated with her). When Rhaegar "abducts" her Rickard Stark travels to king's landing and demands to see Rhaegar to exact justice. The mad king instead imprisons him for treason and then brutally murders him and his son, Brandon. Ned and Robert call their banners and the rebellion is begun. In a fever dream in the first book Ned Stark recalls recovering Lyanna from the Tower of Joy. He, along with 6 others, kill 3 members of the kingsguard to retrieve her. Only Ned and Howland Reed survived (Jojen and Meera Reed's father). Before she dies, Ned makes a promise to her and so only Ned and Howland Reed know the truth of what was said.

Because of Robert's fury for Targaryens, particularly Rhaegar, he would never have told Robert that Jon was Lyanna and Rhaegar's child - hence he speaks of "Wylla" in Robert's presence. In order to keep it truly secret he would have concealed this fact from even his own wife.

That is the tl;dr version of the theory anyway. There are a lot of other supporting pieces of evidence that have been compiled elsewhere.
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post #2206 of 2249 Old 06-17-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I thought he was Ned's bastard son, which is why Cat hated him.
That is what Cat thought, too. But, I think Ned's promise to his sister was to "raise him as your own."
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post #2207 of 2249 Old 06-18-2014, 10:42 PM
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This is funny.

http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/90dc

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #2208 of 2249 Old 06-19-2014, 10:27 AM
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I just read an EW interview that the producers want to finish the series in 7 seasons. Since they spent 2 seasons on Storm, they would have to condense Feast and Dance into a season. That seems like a lot of material to cram in, even if they are slow books...
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post #2209 of 2249 Old 06-20-2014, 07:47 AM
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There have been 4 seasons so far and I do remember reading that book 3 was going to take 2 seasons. That's 3 more seasons to go. I can see it taking all three for the last 2 books with a lot of both books 4 and 5 in all 3 seasons to make a TV time line that is understood by viewers that have not read the Song of Ice and Fire.
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post #2210 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 08:43 AM
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I have to say that the final episode this season really advanced the story line very nicely and did a great set up for next season .. I am a little more convinced that Benioff and Weiss, with help from GRRM, can, in fact, finish it off in 2 more seasons .. considering the amazing amount of filler in books 4 and 5 and the obvious ability to edit and condense ..

For any that may have missed it, I'm reposting the link I provided a few months back on the excerpt from "The Winds of Winter" that GRRM posted just prior to the 4th Season HBO premier ..
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerp...nds-of-winter/

I'm also reposting another bit ..

In the book, "Dangerous Women" an anthology co-edited by GRRM .. there is a Martin story
set during the Targaryen Civil War .. 170 years before "Thrones" begins .. and the Targaryen family equals or exceeds the Lannisters in all areas ..

In that story, the incest and polygamy of the Targaryen family line is gone into .. and would hint at the Targaryen bloodline being much more widespread than what we think from Books 1-5 .. the riding of the Dragon itself is limited to one human rider until the human dies .. IOW, the Dragon will only accept one rider .. and the Dragon / Human Rider relationship is very much the same as the Stark / Direwolf relationship .. a warging ..

However, GRRM never, to my memory, says no one but a Valyrian or a Targaryen can ride a Dragon .. he does make it appear that you must be able to bond with the Dragon .. and we saw that with Dany in the past as she was drawn to the eggs from the get go and nurtured all three after the hatching ..

We're at the point where Dany has obviously bonded with Drogon, thus, if the One Rider / One Dragon holds true, Viserion and Rhaegal are still free agents ..

And who is to say that Aerys might have invoked first rights to Joanna, Tywin's new wife back at King's Landing .. thus spawning Tyrion .. ?? Is that why Tywin retired as Hand .. ?? And if so, does Tyrion have Dragon Blood .. ??

Rhaenyra Targaryen .. who is married to her uncle .. also has a child with the same type of deformities that Khaleesi Dany's baby had ..

Lastly, the Riders back then had saddles, whips and chains when they rode ..

.............. as a follow up to the above, I believe we can safely say we have our first Dragon Rider on the show .. Brandon Stark .. when Bran and Company entered the Cave of the Three Eyed Raven, (which, BTW, does not happen in the books until Book 5) .. the Greenseer says something to the effect of "You will never walk again, but you will fly .. " .. thus, I am claiming Bran as the first reveal of a Dragon Rider ..

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post #2211 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 10:27 AM
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^^^


Great post, thanks for the info. Your speculation is very interesting...But maybe Bran will fly by controlling the dragon much like he controlled Hodor, and not actually ride it?

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #2212 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 10:29 AM
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^^^


Great post, thanks for the info. Your speculation is very interesting...But maybe Bran will fly by controlling the dragon much like he controlled Hodor, and not actually ride it?
That's a very good possibility .. great thinking ..

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post #2213 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post



And who is to say that Aerys might have invoked first rights to Joanna, Tywin's new wife back at King's Landing .. thus spawning Tyrion .. ?? Is that why Tywin retired as Hand .. ?? And if so, does Tyrion have Dragon Blood .. ??

It would explain his disdain for his son, that's for sure. I don't follow much speculation about the books other than this thread so I have to ask: Is that a common thought or did you come up with it? Either way, thanks for sharing. It would have never occurred to me, but it is very possible, I think.

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post #2214 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 10:51 AM
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It's always interesting to look at this thread, as I've forgotten so much of what I've read in the book series.
After finishing the series, I never got the Jon Snow Targaryen connection.
Very interesting.
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post #2215 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 10:57 AM
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I think first rights is first. Tyrion is younger than the twins. Nope.
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post #2216 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post
It would explain his disdain for his son, that's for sure. I don't follow much speculation about the books other than this thread so I have to ask: Is that a common thought or did you come up with it? Either way, thanks for sharing. It would have never occurred to me, but it is very possible, I think.
That idea came about thru a round table GOT discussion at a convention I was at .. there were a number of interesting theories that popped up ..

During the last episode this season, when Tywin did his best to act like he would not allow Tyrion to be executed because he was his son ... I still don't know, and I probably never will, if Tywin was just trying to save himself or if he actually meant it ..

At any rate, I was hoping that by the end of this season Arya and Tyrion would begin their journey and I was very happy they both did ..

Valar morghulis ..

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post #2217 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by John dhein View Post
I think first rights is first. Tyrion is younger than the twins. Nope.
Round table discussion at a fan Convention when somewhat inebriated can and does cloud the old memory banks ..

You are indeed, right ..

We do know, however, that Aerys II lusted for Joanna Lannister ..

when Aerys's daughter Daenerys asks Ser Barristan about her father and whether there was a woman he loved better than his queen, Ser Barristan replies,

“Not loved. Wanted is a better word, but ... it was only kitchen gossip, the whispers of washerwomen and stableboys ..."

So, I still think the possibility exists of Tyrion being the offspring of Aerys II and Joanna Lannister ..

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post #2218 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 01:34 PM
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mgkdragn's post #2210 munched.

It's been quite a while since I've read books 4 and 5 so I'm hoping I'm remembering things right, but isn't Brandon's destiny to become part of the heartwood tree system replacing the ancient guy that's there. It seemed to me that the flying referred to is seeing through the eyes of the crows that the tree seems to control. Also isn't there a scene where Reek is the heartwood grove in Winterfell and he thinks he hears Brandon's voice?

However, it's also clear that the writers aren't a slave to GRRM's plots and are capable of going their own way so who knows where things will go.

It's nice to see that this thread isn't dead. The other one seems to have sunk to arguing about "who-cares" points.
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post #2219 of 2249 Old 06-27-2014, 06:26 PM
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Interesting ideas about Tyrion. Tywin even claims he's not his son because he's a dwarf. Maybe it's not the only reason he's "not his son." But then he has Lannister hair.


I took the learn to fly line as him using birds too, but, if Bran wargs into a dragon, then that dragon will technically have two riders. If he lets someone ride the body of the dragon.

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post #2220 of 2249 Old 06-28-2014, 09:19 AM
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I took the learn to fly line as him using birds too, but, if Bran wargs into a dragon, then that dragon will technically have two riders. If he lets someone ride the body of the dragon.

Hodor! Hodor!

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