'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 82 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2431 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 08:03 AM
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Cersei's walk of shame is definitely in for this season. During the episode's filming, media reported some significant backlash in Croatia because they used a real church for the scene.
Cheers to that, then .. it needs to be in there .. her trial and imprisonment by the Sparrow should be much more interesting ..
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post #2432 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 08:11 AM
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Cersei's walk of shame is definitely in for this season. During the episode's filming, media reported some significant backlash in Croatia because they used a real church for the scene.
Cool, now we no when the Mountain/Robert Strong makes a come back I would like both Cersei and Margaery going for a walk together and hold hands. That would be a way for the baby king to step up. Momma and wife put on display. :roll eyes:
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post #2433 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 08:16 AM
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Every time I see the sparrows on screen, I want a battle to break out, but it never happens, and probably won't for the rest of this season.

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post #2434 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 08:53 AM
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OK I gotta know,does Ramzy(sp) hopefully meet a painful death SOON,Dang that was hard to watch,I hope Theon snaps out of it and cuts his "manhood " off and a few other parts and let him bleed out.

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post #2435 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 08:56 AM
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IIRC, Margaery was imprisoned because she was suspected to be sleeping around with lots of men. Cersei sent someone to sleep with her, Margaery rebuffed the man, but Cersei had her jailed anyway. The man later confessed to working with Cersei, which is what caused her to be jailed. Maybe we will also get a Margaery walk of shame?

Also, Tommen will be known as the king who never brought enough of his King's Guard to a hearing. The kid needs to grow some balls.
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post #2436 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 09:19 AM
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Cersei's walk of shame is definitely in for this season. During the episode's filming, media reported some significant backlash in Croatia because they used a real church for the scene.
Actually, they weren't allowed into the church for filming.
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post #2437 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 09:35 AM
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Disappointing episode and season overall so far. Guess Tyrion is going to go see D&D, a couple c*** merchants. At times just left scratching my head going "huh?".
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post #2438 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 09:37 AM
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Disappointing episode and season overall so far. Guess Tyrion is going to go see D&D, a couple c*** merchants. At times just left scratching my head going "huh?".
Well, we have entered the "Most Boring Of The Books" arena ..

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post #2439 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 10:09 AM
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The thing I am having the most trouble with is Sansa's and Littlefinger's plan or lack thereof. Sansa had to know this was coming. I'm not sure what she is supposed to do from the "inside" or how the northern folks would still be behind her when she agreed to marry into the Boltons' clan. Seems like a win for the Boltons more than anything else.

There has been some debate as to whether Ramsay "raped" Sansa. Clearly by our definition it would be. If you look at the rules of the civilization they are living in, it does not appear to be given that women are treated as property and married off to people they don't want to be with. There doesn't appear to be much concern about rape inside a marriage and sometimes outside.

I am finding the show interesting especially since it is so far off book. Mainly as to what the producers think is important versus what I thought was important.

In the books (re Margaery), Cersei did have Margaery accused of not being a virgin (she had not consumated her marriage with Tommen since he was too young in the books) and she repented. Cersei had many more crimes such as her sex out of wedlock and commissioning witnesses to lie against Margaery. They also accused Margaery of having an abortion (the use of moon tea). Lancel wasn't a soldier of the faith in the books and I like that he is a soldier/fanatic here.

It will be nice to see Cersei get her come-uppance with the monster (faith militia) she has created.

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post #2440 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 10:14 AM
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Well, we have entered the "Most Boring Of The Books" arena ..
Arya storyline has been ok and enjoyed here trip to the back room.

Jorah keeps touching Tyrion, cut it out dude. Previous episodes, I am just another Dwarf walking around here. Now, all dwarfs are wanted for their man parts, and how big is it Tyrion. Just seems silly to me. So Tyrion held captive, again.

Kings Landing- How dumb can Cersei be? Really silly and Tommen, we get it he can't do anything. Can we have another same scene. Made Loras and Renly out to seem like a fling. And really the guy responsible for dressing him for fights/battles knows he has a birth mark. Great lock him up. Really surprised we didn't get to see the proof. Glad Lady Olenna showed up, she did a lot of good.

Dorne this season. The Sand Snakes are behind me. Next episode, are you sand snakes behind me, yes this is my father and I fight. Need to really guard this girl. Two sets of people mosey in during the day. Jaime and Bronn drop their masks. Fight fight fight, Jaime you backpeddle and defend better against sand snake as good as some random soldier previously. Don't use your metal hand at all as you just learned you could. Smack a bitch. Bronn did have some cool moves in between multiple camera angle changes, yeah its pretty to fight in a garden. Guards show up, I still carry this axe and its a great weapon I still don't need to use. Oh my who are you, This was my father and I fight. Oh no hopefully not a poison blade.

Sand snakes give "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" speech right before they are. Then Sansa is literally bowed, bent, and broken. So how many of the lead female characters have been raped on the show? Sansa with another dbag, again.

I could go on, but just leave it at this. Disappointing
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post #2441 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 10:31 AM
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I find Sansa's inclusion in place of Jenye Poole has been a horrible choice all around. It weakens the plot for no obvious reason and paints Littlefinger in a way that was never done in the book. A creep, yes, but he would never have placed Sansa intentionally in danger like they have done here. They are so far off the reservation now, I don't have any faith that they'll be able to execute at the same level while making up their own material.
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post #2442 of 2527 Old 05-18-2015, 12:47 PM
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I find Sansa's inclusion in place of Jenye Poole has been a horrible choice all around. It weakens the plot for no obvious reason and paints Littlefinger in a way that was never done in the book. A creep, yes, but he would never have placed Sansa intentionally in danger like they have done here. They are so far off the reservation now, I don't have any faith that they'll be able to execute at the same level while making up their own material.
Agree 100%. I just posted in the other GoT thread here that I too though it was a bad change, and not only that, sort of destroyed all of Sansa's character building so far this season. But now that they have deviated from the story that much, including Brienne being present there and Sansa already having been told she has friends, we could be see some revenge from Sansa/Theon/Brienne soon. Maybe they will actually let Brienne do something right for a change.
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post #2443 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 06:09 AM
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I get it. Jamie and Broon are in Dorne rather then lost in time. Jamie was running around the Riverlands making piece after the war is over and then goes to get Brienne when she is grabbed by Lady Stonehart, who was pre death Lady Stark. We do not see him again or Brienne in the last book, but I may not remember it right.
I think what they are doing with show is trying to keep the major players on the screen. Sansa as Sansa instead of Pool for Arya. In the book it was to fool the Lords of the North that were in Winterfell. When Sansa was having her hair cleaned and made red again she did say no use trying to hide now. I like the changes the show has made to shorten the story. I think GoT well be in reruns be for the last 2 books are out. If I have the right of it both the show and the book end up in the same place were ever that is, as the game goes on.
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post #2444 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 09:12 AM
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I think what they are doing with show is trying to keep the major players on the screen. Sansa as Sansa instead of Pool for Arya. In the book it was to fool the Lords of the North that were in Winterfell. When Sansa was having her hair cleaned and made red again she did say no use trying to hide now. I like the changes the show has made to shorten the story. I think GoT well be in reruns be for the last 2 books are out. If I have the right of it both the show and the book end up in the same place were ever that is, as the game goes on.

This is exactly what they are doing .. I keep wondering how much of the "March of Stannis to Winterfell" will be re-created and if Asha will be back, to be re-united with Theon at some point .. which is what happens in "A Dance with Dragons" ..


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post #2445 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 10:42 AM
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I'm just disappointed overall with the show. The only gay innuendo in the book was that Loras Tyrell was probably gay - and that wasn't ever explicitly confirmed - yet the producers have been intent from the onset to create a main plot that has zero to do with the actual story. You might call me naive - my wife did - but I wasn't even convinced Tyrell was gay after reading the book. The persecution of Loras Tyrell by the church because he was gay may have been the last straw for me. I wanted to watch the story come to life, not watch a new one created or an agenda piece.
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post #2446 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 11:11 AM
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I'm just disappointed overall with the show. The only gay innuendo in the book was that Loras Tyrell was probably gay - and that wasn't ever explicitly confirmed - yet the producers have been intent from the onset to create a main plot that has zero to do with the actual story. You might call me naive - my wife did - but I wasn't even convinced Tyrell was gay after reading the book. The persecution of Loras Tyrell by the church because he was gay may have been the last straw for me. I wanted to watch the story come to life, not watch a new one created or an agenda piece.
I think that is because Loras was not a Point-of-View character, thus it had to be presented as rumour and second-hand knowledge.
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post #2447 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 11:23 AM
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I think that is because Loras was not a Point-of-View character, thus it had to be presented as rumour and second-hand knowledge.
Exactly. And if Martin decided to expand on it in this way I would have turned away from the books as well. I have no qualms saying I have no interest in gay love affair stories.
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post #2448 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 12:02 PM
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I think that is because Loras was not a Point-of-View character, thus it had to be presented as rumour and second-hand knowledge.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...hrones-gay-sex

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post #2449 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 12:07 PM
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I get it. Jamie and Broon are in Dorne rather then lost in time. Jamie was running around the Riverlands making piece after the war is over and then goes to get Brienne when she is grabbed by Lady Stonehart, who was pre death Lady Stark.
Bronns actions in the books were far more interesting and let's not forget to what actions that lead Cersei. It's a shame, that the showwriters destroy the books.

And Jaime wasn't running around the Riverlands, he had interesting tasks i.e. with the Blackfish.

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post #2450 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 12:45 PM
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I'm just disappointed overall with the show. The only gay innuendo in the book was that Loras Tyrell was probably gay - and that wasn't ever explicitly confirmed - yet the producers have been intent from the onset to create a main plot that has zero to do with the actual story. You might call me naive - my wife did - but I wasn't even convinced Tyrell was gay after reading the book. The persecution of Loras Tyrell by the church because he was gay may have been the last straw for me. I wanted to watch the story come to life, not watch a new one created or an agenda piece.
I don't think it's meant as an agenda piece (I hope not), but it was the most logical/economical way to get to the incarceration of Margery (and eventually Cersei). The show has not had nearly enough time to develop the ideas about Margery's promiscuity, and they already have the established "crime" with Loras. It is a logical choice. Now if they go on to push it and make it some agenda driven point, then I will be disappointed as well.

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post #2451 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 01:03 PM
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It's a shame, that the showwriters destroy the books.
70 projected approximate hours or less total show / 7 seasons .. I give them the credit for creating Westeros and most of the characters we've come to know in a very well done way .. but if HBO stayed with everything, who knows how many seasons it would take ..


Besides Jaime / Riverlands sub plot, although I knew it was a longshot, I had hoped some treatment would be given to Sam and his journey with Maester Aemon Targaryen ..

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post #2452 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 01:22 PM
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I don't think it's meant as an agenda piece (I hope not), but it was the most logical/economical way to get to the incarceration of Margery (and eventually Cersei). The show has not had nearly enough time to develop the ideas about Margery's promiscuity, and they already have the established "crime" with Loras. It is a logical choice. Now if they go on to push it and make it some agenda driven point, then I will be disappointed as well.
There are lots of ripple effect differences though. Fundamentally the Loras plot is based on truth while the Margery one was a lie that Cersei attempted to manufacture which then unraveled to implicate her. Not to mention that the show never really established that being gay was a criminal offense. I guess we're just supposed to presume it is in the eyes of the 7 since it's a religion?

I'm less clear how the Tyrells wiggle out of this one and Cersei takes the fall, although it could be that this is yet another major deviation from the books potentially? Frankly it's always bothered me that Loras is not in the King's Guard & they've really gotten away from showing him as one of the top knights in all the land on the show.

Benioff & Weiss's rampant deviations from the books are starting to worry me. I think back to when they deviated from the books a lot in the past (Jon Snow going to attack the deserters at Craster's & the failed Theon/Reek rescue in the kennel) where what they made up failed as a scene due in no small part to a lack of understanding of edged weapon fighting. Suddenly I'm worried about if they can finish on their own w/o the road map of the books. Hopefully it's not an issue, but I feel we're poised to derail...
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post #2453 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 01:32 PM
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Benioff & Weiss's rampant deviations from the books are starting to worry me. I think back to when they deviated from the books a lot in the past (Jon Snow going to attack the deserters at Craster's & the failed Theon/Reek rescue in the kennel) where what they made up failed as a scene due in no small part to a lack of understanding of edged weapon fighting. Suddenly I'm worried about if they can finish on their own w/o the road map of the books. Hopefully it's not an issue, but I feel we're poised to derail...

They have GRRM's complete outline through book 7 .. by the looks of things, we can expect book 6 by mid to late next year, book 7 in 2035 .. at the clip B&W are going on the show, next season should be a real hoot .. and the two threads can then be combined, since spoilers will cease to exist ..

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post #2454 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 01:59 PM
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Because of the way they cast Tommen and Margaery, they couldn't follow the book's plot because Tommen was old enough to have sex with Margaery so they needed another pretext for getting Margaery ensnared by the High Sparrow. They used the gay subplot to do this. There were plenty of "hints" if you will about Renly and Loras in the books to support this subplot.

I get that some of you don't want to see this plotline. If you don't just quit watching or at least quit expressing your displeasure about it. It isn't going to stop and if you don't like it, don't watch or at least stop endlessly complaining about it in your posts.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who watch this don't really care. I'm also pretty sure that having this lifestyle portrayed on television was one of the big factors in getting the majority of the people in this country more comfortable (or less upset) about accepting that there are people in the world who don't share our preferences.

I am not going to push any further into this discussion. I would just say, get used to it or at least shut up about it.
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post #2455 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 02:04 PM
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They have GRRM's complete outline through book 7 .. by the looks of things, we can expect book 6 by mid to late next year, book 7 in 2035 .. at the clip B&W are going on the show, next season should be a real hoot .. and the two threads can then be combined, since spoilers will cease to exist ..
I don't think anyone is questioning that these guys have the outline or that they know where and basically how the story ends. The problem is that nearly every scene which has deviated from the books has been poorly conceived with terrible dialogue and gaping plot holes. These two are at their best when they're faithfully adapting the author's work while pruning unnecessary information and storylines; everything else is a hot mess.
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post #2456 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 02:09 PM
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Because of the way they cast Tommen and Margaery, they couldn't follow the book's plot because Tommen was old enough to have sex with Margaery so they needed another pretext for getting Margaery ensnared by the High Sparrow. They used the gay subplot to do this. There were plenty of "hints" if you will about Renly and Loras in the books to support this subplot.
It is a chicken and egg problem. Did they cast them this way because they couldn't follow the book's plot or because they decided not to? The actor cast as Tommen was originally much younger and they could have kept this exactly as it was in the book. They made a creative decision which now forces them to deviate even further. As GRRM said on his blog, it's a butterfly effect.
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post #2457 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 02:13 PM
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I don't think anyone is questioning that these guys have the outline or that they know where and basically how the story ends. The problem is that nearly every scene which has deviated from the books has been poorly conceived with terrible dialogue and gaping plot holes. These two are at their best when they're faithfully adapting the author's work; everything else is a hot mess.

The drifting really started after Season One .. It's probably safe to say that B&W may have suddenly discovered that the project they wanted so bad to take on was much more of a monster to adapt to TV than they had originally figured .. and squeezing it into 7 seasons / 70 hours .. you know when you say "70 Hours" and then "5216 pages" in the published material, with a few thousand more to come .. .. I don't know how they could have done a fully faithful adaptation ..
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post #2458 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post
It is a chicken and egg problem. Did they cast them this way because they couldn't follow the book's plot or because they decided not to? The actor cast as Tommen was originally much younger and they could have kept this exactly as it was in the book. They made a creative decision which now forces them to deviate even further. As GRRM said on his blog, it's a butterfly effect.
Maybe so but they had a character Margaery who was probably about 15 or 16 and who was married to 2 different men and still supposedly a virgin. They didn't play it that way (or pretty much on any other character in that they had actors in their 20s playing kids who were less than 15 like Rob, Jon etc). They cast Natalie Dormer as Margaery who is obviously in her mid to late 20s and couldn't have Tommen then as a child especially when the plot required her to essentially seduce Tommen. There are much more restrictions on tv shows than books and since GoTs also wants to titilate, they need actors of age.

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post #2459 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 03:15 PM
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There are much more restrictions on tv shows than books and since GoTs also wants to titilate, they need actors of age.
If this was a french TV show, they wouldn't have this problem.

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post #2460 of 2527 Old 05-19-2015, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post
Maybe so but they had a character Margaery who was probably about 15 or 16 and who was married to 2 different men and still supposedly a virgin. They didn't play it that way (or pretty much on any other character in that they had actors in their 20s playing kids who were less than 15 like Rob, Jon etc). They cast Natalie Dormer as Margaery who is obviously in her mid to late 20s and couldn't have Tommen then as a child especially when the plot required her to essentially seduce Tommen. There are much more restrictions on tv shows than books and since GoTs also wants to titilate, they need actors of age.
In the book Margaery does not seduce Tommen or consummate the marriage, because he is not of age. In the book she is rumored to be sleeping around with other men which is how she ends up in prison. Had they followed the book's outline for Tommen, they would not have had to concoct a reason to put Margaery in prison. That is what I mean by a chicken and egg problem. They created the problem.
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