'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD *** WARNING - Spoilers allowed *** - Page 91 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2701 of 2825 Old 06-14-2015, 09:07 PM
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So much for the rumor - onward with summer
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post #2702 of 2825 Old 06-14-2015, 10:23 PM
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On the bright side, we don't need 2 threads anymore.

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post #2703 of 2825 Old 06-14-2015, 10:36 PM
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By the way, Ellaria's poisoning of Myrcella was really really obvious. How could the characters not see that given Ellaria's previous attempt on Myrcella's life, the noted poisoning and the really out of place kiss on the lips?

Clearly Ellaria wants war with the Lannisters and she will get it. I would think that Jaime would think hard about killing the prince and tossing his body overboard to let it wash up on the beach as an answer to that treachery.

The most interesting part was the result of Shireen's death. The Lord of Light apparently is very much like Satan is depicted in granting wishes only to not give you everything you expect. The aftermath of the murder of his daughter was logical and followed. The only thing he got was the reprieve from the snow which allowed Stannis a faster doom with the coupe de grace provided by Brienne who couldn't follow through on her vow to Lady Catlyn by looking after Sansa. (Of course for dramatic purposes they have this happen immediately in time).

What I really like is Melissandre deserting seeming like she hit a crisis in her faith (unless she was a knowing participant in Stannis' downfall which would truly be evil). Of course, it also leads her back to Castle Black in order to do what a lot of us think she will do -- bring Jon Snow back to life. I know the producers and the actor are denying this but the central secret of the show can't end here unless Martin is playing the long con and basically telling us that things we think are important really aren't and are subject to the whims of fate. That might be the cruelest lesson indeed.
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post #2704 of 2825 Old 06-14-2015, 10:52 PM
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IT'S much like the ending in book 5. Now we just gotta hang until there is a new book or 42 weeks for the next season. Ayra did kill that one and did it some what brutal.
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post #2705 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post
By the way, Ellaria's poisoning of Myrcella was really really obvious. How could the characters not see that given Ellaria's previous attempt on Myrcella's life, the noted poisoning and the really out of place kiss on the lips?

Clearly Ellaria wants war with the Lannisters and she will get it. I would think that Jaime would think hard about killing the prince and tossing his body overboard to let it wash up on the beach as an answer to that treachery.

The most interesting part was the result of Shireen's death. The Lord of Light apparently is very much like Satan is depicted in granting wishes only to not give you everything you expect. The aftermath of the murder of his daughter was logical and followed. The only thing he got was the reprieve from the snow which allowed Stannis a faster doom with the coupe de grace provided by Brienne who couldn't follow through on her vow to Lady Catlyn by looking after Sansa. (Of course for dramatic purposes they have this happen immediately in time).

What I really like is Melissandre deserting seeming like she hit a crisis in her faith (unless she was a knowing participant in Stannis' downfall which would truly be evil). Of course, it also leads her back to Castle Black in order to do what a lot of us think she will do -- bring Jon Snow back to life. I know the producers and the actor are denying this but the central secret of the show can't end here unless Martin is playing the long con and basically telling us that things we think are important really aren't and are subject to the whims of fate. That might be the cruelest lesson indeed.


So who is the third head of the dragon?

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post #2706 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 07:46 AM
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So who is the third head of the dragon?
You ask who is the third head, how about the second ?
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post #2707 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 08:52 AM
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So who is the third head of the dragon?
Maybe its Jaime. There has been the theory about Tyrion being the son of Aegon due to King's right of first night but it would make more sense if that was the firstborn who happen to be twins and who happen to have the different personalities of the Targaryens. Just a thought.


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You ask who is the third head, how about the second ?
Still think its Jon Snow. I think we are being snowed by the idea that Jon Snow will stay dead. The matter of his parents is too far out there and was presented way too much this season for it to end without a conclusion.

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post #2708 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:10 AM
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This is an interesting article on theories (derived from the books) about why Jon Snow is not dead.
http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/20...-fan-theories/
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post #2709 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:23 AM
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Maybe its Jaime. There has been the theory about Tyrion being the son of Aegon due to King's right of first night but it would make more sense if that was the firstborn who happen to be twins and who happen to have the different personalities of the Targaryens. Just a thought.




Still think its Jon Snow. I think we are being snowed by the idea that Jon Snow will stay dead. The matter of his parents is too far out there and was presented way too much this season for it to end without a conclusion.
I do not think its Jaime, the I think the Kings right to the first night was dumped longago. I do think that Tyrion fits the bill with 2 colored eyes and hair, and maybe his mother was raped by that sick basted that Jaime got famous for killing.


I wonder what Sam may find in Old Town? What if Rhaegar & Lyanna were marred in secret and the person that did wrote it down and filled it away, In the Sept, or the Citadel were Sam is going to study. Jon Snow would not be a Snow, if they are his parents.

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post #2710 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:25 AM
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From what little can be gathered surrounding Season 6, B&W will be delving into book material that has not yet had any treatment .. of which there is still a good quantity of .. as well as moving forward bits that have already gone beyond the books .. I'm not particularly happy with that, but since GRRM is still a longshot to provide a full manuscript before Season 6 begins filming, what can you do .. ??
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post #2711 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:31 AM
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This is an interesting article on theories (derived from the books) about why Jon Snow is not dead.
http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/20...-fan-theories/
Its a good theory but that was not just in the Book. I think all the Starks had that seeing stuff, and Bran's was by far the most developed.
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post #2712 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:35 AM
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I wonder what Sam may find in Old Town? What if Rhaegar & Lyanna were marred in secret and the person that did wrote it down and filled it away, In the Sept, or the Citadel were Sam is going to study. Jon Snow would not be a Snow, if they are his parents.
Part of the fun in speculation between seasons and books, for that matter is in not knowing .. if Jon is dead, the huge amount of man hours spent on the Rhaegar & Lyanna theories would simply drop like a rock .. it becomes irrelevant ..


B&W know who Snows parents are supposed to be, that guess is what landed them the rights .. at least based on what GRRM had written to that point .. and there is the rub .. what prevents GRRM from doing whatever he wants to do after the fact .. ?? It's so far, uncharted ground as far as the reading public is concerned ..


My money says Jon is Dead and may live on thru Flashback only .. which, in speculation, is part of what Season 6 melds in .. Flashback and more backstory ..

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post #2713 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:45 AM
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From what little can be gathered surrounding Season 6, B&W will be delving into book material that has not yet had any treatment .. of which there is still a good quantity of .. as well as moving forward bits that have already gone beyond the books .. I'm not particularly happy with that, but since GRRM is still a longshot to provide a full manuscript before Season 6 begins filming, what can you do .. ??
Expect there to be some material that was cut from book 4 (kingsmoot, etc), but only for the purposes of introducing those new characters. I have no doubt that next season will be barreling full steam ahead into book 6 plotting.

I like to pop over, from time to time, to the westeros.org forums. The book fans there are having a complete melt down from this episode. There is a episode poll where the distribution is reverse-gaussian (ie. the most votes are for the episode rated 1/10 or 10/10). I find that perversely fascinating
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post #2714 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 09:45 AM
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I've mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating .. having read every shred of Martins GOT written material, he revealed some time ago, outside of the main books, that you either must be a Targaryen or have the ability to warg in order to ride a Dragon .. whether or not B&W adhere to that, who knows ..

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post #2715 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 10:01 AM
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Part of the fun in speculation between seasons and books, for that matter is in not knowing .. if Jon is dead, the huge amount of man hours spent on the Rhaegar & Lyanna theories would simply drop like a rock .. it becomes irrelevant ..


B&W know who Snows parents are supposed to be, that guess is what landed them the rights .. at least based on what GRRM had written to that point .. and there is the rub .. what prevents GRRM from doing whatever he wants to do after the fact .. ?? It's so far, uncharted ground as far as the reading public is concerned ..


My money says Jon is Dead and may live on thru Flashback only .. which, in speculation, is part of what Season 6 melds in .. Flashback and more backstory ..
With you on that, NO speculation no fun no show. Read the books through twice and I still think that B&W hit it right. I was looking for clues in the second reading and one that I found was after Robb made a Stark out of Jon the document was sent someplace for safe keeping, and like the truth of what happened at the tower of Joy is known by Reed only this could be the same thing. Would that not make for a conflict if Jon were to have 2 names as in Targaryen-Stark. The Old Kings and the New. I think he lives with the Red women in town as I belive she knows the truth as to Jon ancestry, based on the look on her face as she watched Jon through the fire burning the dead from the battle at the wall and Castle Black.

More speculation more fun.
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post #2716 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 10:14 AM
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I just had another thought, what if that document naming Jon a Stark needed up in the hands of the Mormont's of Bear Island, did they not write to Stannis that the only King North's name was Stark.

I like to play around with the clues in the book and the show.

More speculation more fun.
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post #2717 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 10:32 AM
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I was shocked at the ending last night...

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post #2718 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 12:15 PM
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I like to pop over, from time to time, to the westeros.org forums. The book fans there are having a complete melt down from this episode. There is a episode poll where the distribution is reverse-gaussian (ie. the most votes are for the episode rated 1/10 or 10/10). I find that perversely fascinating
I've stopped going over to westeros.org because I can't take their ranting anymore. Some of it is legit but the volume is turned up to 11. Other ranting is stupid, though. People were complaining last night that how on earth could Stannis, the great military commander that he is, be defeated by Ramsey. Did they not notice that Stannis's army was outnumbered maybe 10 to 1, were on foot and exhausted and going against well-rested cavalry? Of COURSE Stannis is going to get crushed by the Bolton army, regardless of who's leading it.

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post #2719 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 12:58 PM
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So Melisandra showing up pretty much confirms she's going to save Jon. Why else would she show up just in time.

Davos is one of my favorite characters on the show, he needs to murder Red lady posthaste. But, not before she works magic on dead Jonny.

Sam needs to find the book on how to make Valyrian steel, quick. I think that's the only way people are going to have a chance against WWZ.


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I've stopped going over to westeros.org because I can't take their ranting anymore. Some of it is legit but the volume is turned up to 11. Other ranting is stupid, though. People were complaining last night that how on earth could Stannis, the great military commander that he is, be defeated by Ramsey. Did they not notice that Stannis's army was outnumbered maybe 10 to 1, were on foot and exhausted and going against well-rested cavalry? Of COURSE Stannis is going to get crushed by the Bolton army, regardless of who's leading it.

But, his remaining soldiers should have all gotten high fives for sticking it out to the bitter end, after what happened just before.



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I've mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating .. having read every shred of Martins GOT written material, he revealed some time ago, outside of the main books, that you either must be a Targaryen or have the ability to warg in order to ride a Dragon .. whether or not B&W adhere to that, who knows ..
What is special about Targaryens that allow them to ride? Do they hatch from dragon eggs?

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post #2720 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 01:13 PM
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Expect there to be some material that was cut from book 4 (kingsmoot, etc), but only for the purposes of introducing those new characters. I have no doubt that next season will be barreling full steam ahead into book 6 plotting.

I like to pop over, from time to time, to the westeros.org forums. The book fans there are having a complete melt down from this episode. There is a episode poll where the distribution is reverse-gaussian (ie. the most votes are for the episode rated 1/10 or 10/10). I find that perversely fascinating
Wouldn't it be cool if season 6 was entirely about the kingsmoot and maybe sprinkle in mereen! Imagine how fun that will be. To give old speedwriter a chance to finish another book.




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Part of the fun in speculation between seasons and books, for that matter is in not knowing .. if Jon is dead, the huge amount of man hours spent on the Rhaegar & Lyanna theories would simply drop like a rock .. it becomes irrelevant ..


B&W know who Snows parents are supposed to be, that guess is what landed them the rights .. at least based on what GRRM had written to that point .. and there is the rub .. what prevents GRRM from doing whatever he wants to do after the fact .. ?? It's so far, uncharted ground as far as the reading public is concerned ..


My money says Jon is Dead and may live on thru Flashback only .. which, in speculation, is part of what Season 6 melds in .. Flashback and more backstory ..
What other options can there possibly be for his secret parentage, that would make a difference in the story. If he's Ned's son with any other woman, who cares? But, if it's the Targaryen theory, then that makes a difference.
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post #2721 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 01:50 PM
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What is special about Targaryens that allow them to ride? Do they hatch from dragon eggs?

The Princess and the Queen .. the novella takes place some 170 years before the action depicted in A Game of Thrones .. it's set during the Targaryen Civil War, the Dance of the Dragons ..


Targaryen blood being somehow the key .. when the Targaryens realize they have more dragons than riders, they hold a contest of sorts called the Sowing to give "dragonseeds" (bastards who supposedly have at least some Targaryen blood) a chance to win over their own dragons ..


A dragon will accept only one rider .. and won't take a second rider until the first rider is dead. (Conversely, a dragon won't accept someone else's rider.) .. in addition, the riders used saddles, chains and steel tipped whips ..


Non Targaryen's must be able to warg to ride .. although some dragonseeds have success, because they have some Targ blood ..

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post #2722 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 01:53 PM
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What other options can there possibly be for his secret parentage, that would make a difference in the story. If he's Ned's son with any other woman, who cares? But, if it's the Targaryen theory, then that makes a difference.

At this point, it makes no difference at all, either way ..

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post #2723 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 02:00 PM
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At this point, it makes no difference at all, either way ..
Yeah yeah, he's still going to be a part of the story. Melisandra showing up is pretty much confirming it. Also, why is it a question GRRM asks Benioff and Weiss if he's dead now?

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post #2724 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 02:31 PM
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Yeah yeah, he's still going to be a part of the story. Melisandra showing up is pretty much confirming it. Also, why is it a question GRRM asks Benioff and Weiss if he's dead now?
Like said .. "B&W know who Snows parents are supposed to be, that guess is what landed them the rights .. at least based on what GRRM had written to that point .. and there is the rub .. what prevents GRRM from doing whatever he wants to do after the fact .. ?? It's so far, uncharted ground as far as the reading public is concerned .. "


Until Jon Snow magically reappears alive and whole, no one can know what's what .. don't assume the Watch is going to allow Melisandra to drag Jon off somewhere and re-animate him .. Melisandra is essentially on her own at this point .. but maybe Qyburn will show up to help her .. .. or maybe they will drag him to North of the Wall and he'll become a wight .. not to mention, it seems to me, the Watch burns their dead ..

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post #2725 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 03:24 PM
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I read an interesting theory today. It may have been around for some time but it's the first I heard of it. It relies on R+L=J being true.

In season 1 Dany burns Drogo on a pyre and joins him, with everyone assuming she's going to die in the fire. Of course, she has Targaryen blood so she is immune from fire and emerges 'reborn' with her new dragons.

Fast forward to Castle Black where Jon is "dead". What does the Night's Watch do to dead bodies? They burn them so they don't come back as wights. What if they throw Jon on the fire and he doesn't burn? What if through some Mel Magic he is Reborn as Azor Ahai? The writers did tell Kit that Jon Snow is dead, and yet we know he has signed a contract for two more seasons and is a central player in the overall story arc. They could be telling the truth that Jon is dead if he's going to be reborn as AA next season.

It would be an interesting way to reveal Jon's parentage as no one is immune to fire but Targaryens.

In any case, Mel didn't desert Stannis and high-tail it to Castle Black for no reason. And Davos is there for a reason as well, I'm sure, as it's certainly not to get more troops.

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post #2726 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 03:44 PM
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And Davos is there for a reason as well, I'm sure, as it's certainly not to get more troops.
Maybe just to lend a hand.
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post #2727 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 03:53 PM
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Kit Harington has discussed the Season Finale, his death, his not coming back and the rumors about contracts for Season 6 and 7 .. similar to what Michelle Fairley said about Lady Stoneheart ..


http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14...dies-interview


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.2255546

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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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post #2728 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Kit Harington has discussed the Season Finale, his death, his not coming back and the rumors about contracts for Season 6 and 7 .. similar to what Michelle Fairley said about Lady Stoneheart ..


http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14...dies-interview


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.2255546
Like Jon Snow, we know nothing at this point. If he was coming back by some supernatural trickery, I doubt it would be spoiled the day after the episode airs. I lean towards a warg into Ghost and/or resurrection, personally. To use an actor's statements the day after the episode airs as proof of their death is dubious at best.
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post #2729 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 05:55 PM
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By the way, Ellaria's poisoning of Myrcella was really really obvious. How could the characters not see that given Ellaria's previous attempt on Myrcella's life, the noted poisoning and the really out of place kiss on the lips?

Clearly Ellaria wants war with the Lannisters and she will get it. I would think that Jaime would think hard about killing the prince and tossing his body overboard to let it wash up on the beach as an answer to that treachery.
I think, Princess Myrcella lives. Tyene has a thing for Bronn and might have sabotaged her mothers attempt to murder poor Myrcella.

Bronn got another ampulle of the antidode and saves Myrcella's life.
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post #2730 of 2825 Old 06-15-2015, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Kit Harington has discussed the Season Finale, his death, his not coming back and the rumors about contracts for Season 6 and 7 .. similar to what Michelle Fairley said about Lady Stoneheart ..


http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14...dies-interview


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.2255546
Yep - officially in uncharted waters at this point. Next season should be impossible to spoil IMO. People who think some specific direction according to published work must happen are officially off the mark.

I have no problem with this & enjoy the show. GRRM can go about his business (WETF That Is)
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