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post #9631 of 10968 Old 03-07-2016, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeNc View Post
a few of the main characters should've gotten at least a scratch ! hehe
Abraham got cut.
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post #9632 of 10968 Old 03-07-2016, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeNc View Post
to me it was a good episode ,except for killing all those guys and not
taking ONE hit.... NO Way that should've happened...


a few of the main characters should've gotten at least a scratch ! hehe


Also, while I'm thinking about how invincible this tribe is, how about
karl taking a 9mm in the eye and living through it ! Ha... it would've
blown out the back of his head..


Carl says..

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post #9633 of 10968 Old 03-07-2016, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeNc View Post
Also, while I'm thinking about how invincible this tribe is, how about
karl taking a 9mm in the eye and living through it ! Ha... it would've
blown out the back of his head..
Must not have been a direct hit, maybe an angled shot?
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post #9634 of 10968 Old 03-07-2016, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNc View Post
to me it was a good episode ,except for killing all those guys and not
taking ONE hit.... NO Way that should've happened...


a few of the main characters should've gotten at least a scratch ! hehe
Never seen Sons of Anarchy, have you ? It happened on there all of the time !
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post #9635 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 05:34 AM
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Yeah some of us try to forget it...........
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post #9636 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNc View Post
to me it was a good episode ,except for killing all those guys and not
taking ONE hit.... NO Way that should've happened...


a few of the main characters should've gotten at least a scratch ! hehe


Also, while I'm thinking about how invincible this tribe is, how about
karl taking a 9mm in the eye and living through it ! Ha... it would've
blown out the back of his head..
This was already discussed, they showed it and talked about it on Talking Dead. The bullet hit at an angle, hit his bone and the fragments did most of the damage. Just because someone gets shot doesn't always mean its a straight on shot, bullets can go at angles when fired, nick people, flesh wounds, etc. etc.

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post #9637 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 08:05 AM
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ACTION!

The Walking Dead goes tactical....

I wonder if there is a bigger base or hidden areas...
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post #9638 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 08:58 AM
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think of all of the nameless alexandrians that were in that church scene..i think there are plenty of "red-shirts" for a decent death tally on their side..throw in a B-Level character (tara heath, or tobin) and an A-Level character death (carol, daryl, glenn) and you have a pretty powerful war brewing once Jeffrey Dean Morgan shows up as Negan
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post #9639 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 11:45 AM
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I wasn't a fan thematically of this last episode. I may not hold a popular opinion as there will be those that definitely say it had to be done. I understand the premise. Eat or be ate, Might makes right - etc....


I don't like it. It makes me lose a notch of interest in the show because I can't agree with the groups direction at this point, and it's more difficult to be interested in something you don't believe in/agree with. It's the same reason I stopped watching House of Cards after season 1. I no longer liked Frank Underwood. I get it - that's the point. But it doesn't really work for me. It's no longer a story about people I respect, admire, can identify with. If I was in a situation where my friends went this direction - I'd separate from my friends at this point.


----------------------


Think about the enemy camps of Rick's team throughout the show. These other groups were enemies primarily because of moral/ethical conflict with Rick's group. (though Rick's morals have obviously been eroding slowly each show as he adapts to the survival requirements of the new world)

The Governor and Woodberry - killed first asked questions later --- remember the military convoy they took out?
The Claimers (motorcycle gang that Darryl joined for a while) - claimed and killed without morals for their own benefit
The Police group in the city - who kept the peace by corruption
Termites - asked questions first, offered a chance to join or die -- ultimately killed to be fed
The Wolves - killed, just for the fun of killing - knew they were evil and owned that attribute
Negan's band - cool cold blooded killing and profiteering (all the pictures of the people who had their heads smashed in on the wall over the bed)


Rick's group has always previously been above their common enemy. Taken the moral high road so to speak.


No longer. Now they are the instigators of the negative moral choice.
They have become like one of their enemies. They killed many of those guys from Negan's group in their sleep, no fair fight, no chance to consider choices. Legitimately Rick's group didn't even know much about Negan's group. Maggie's price to kill dozens of people? Food --- but not just food for survivial --- but for the same 50% that Negan's band had required. There is an intentional parallel there. There is also an obvious observation drawn by the citizen of the other camp who said Negan's group is mean but he's got nothing on your Rick.


Revelation ---- Rick's group is no longer better than their common foes.




As a viewer, I can no longer identify with Rick's leadership. Part of the fun of this show is imagining what if - what if this was all real? How would you, the viewer fit in.


The answer is - I no longer do.
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post #9640 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 11:56 AM
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^^^ Survival has always been the direction of the show .. devolving is nothing new .. given a choice to act or react, in this case, act seemed the right choice ..


Anyone placed in the same scenarios would likely do the same thing .. if they had the will to do it, that is ..
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post #9641 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 11:59 AM
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Morality is in short supply in the zombie apocalypse.

Just like, food, energy, etc.


I don't think viewers identified with Rick because of morality.

Or at least he struggled with it before concluding he'd rather kill than be killed.

He at least has a soft side, the way he deals with his children, the way he tried to be patient with Jesse's kids, even though in the end it got her killed and Carl lost an eye.

Every one of Negan's crew has been arrogant and nasty. If they did what Morgan suggested, to talk to them first, Negan would have killed first, asked questions later. BTW, if Morgan isn't helping defend Alexandria, what the hell is he doing there? How is he earning his keep?

If they didn't get the tactical jump with the preemptive attack, they would probably lose.
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post #9642 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
^^^ Survival has always been the direction of the show .. devolving is nothing new .. given a choice to act or react, in this case, act seemed the right choice ..


Anyone placed in the same scenarios would likely do the same thing .. if they had the will to do it, that is ..

Exactly. It's easy to make judgments sitting in your climate controlled house fully stocked with food and no threat of being attacked/killed at any moment. EVERYTHING changes when you take all of that away. Hunger and survival will drastically change the way you look at life in a hurry.

Besides, this conversation is exactly what TWD is about. Kirkman has stated that repeatedly. It's not about zombies. It's about the people that are left, what they will do to survive and how it changes them as people.
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post #9643 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 12:20 PM
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Besides, this conversation is exactly what TWD is about. Kirkman has stated that repeatedly. It's not about zombies. It's about the people that are left, what they will do to survive and how it changes them as people.

Bingo ..

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post #9644 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 12:26 PM
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It's about the action and gore.

That is what brings the ratings.

Not the juvenile moral pontifications.

Glen kills the sleeping guys and weeps inside about it. Then he sees his victims' trophies, polaroids of the people whose heads they presumably bashed in on shot off.

That's suppose to make Glen feel better?
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post #9645 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 12:52 PM
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Not to be piling on but here I go. Anybody who is bothered in the slightest by the cold blooded killings committed in order to survive in the dog eat dog world of the Zombie Appocolypse fails to understand the Zombie Appocolypse, for the well stated reasons stated earlier by other posters. Moreover, if there is a more mindless TV show anywhere than The Walking Dead, I'm at a loss to identify it.
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post #9646 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 12:55 PM
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Although, if Rick massacred a group which turned out to be like the Hilltop, that would be a twist.

Say instead of polaroids of victims, there were pictures of their wives and children by the beds of the men they killed.
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post #9647 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 01:08 PM
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The whole comment about "Negan has nothing on you (Rick)" was pretty stupid. I mean he made that comment because Rick punched a zombie head?

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post #9648 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Although, if Rick massacred a group which turned out to be like the Hilltop, that would be a twist.

Say instead of polaroids of victims, there were pictures of their wives and children by the beds of the men they killed.
It would be pretty sick to keep pictures of your wife and kids bashed in heads hung up to look at every day, but I get your point.

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post #9649 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 05:03 PM
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Geez, I thought this was a fictional TV show!

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post #9650 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 05:05 PM
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Every one of Negan's crew has been arrogant and nasty. If they did what Morgan suggested, to talk to them first, Negan would have killed first, asked questions later.
Remember what the lead biker said, they normally kill one person in every group they encounter, just to make their point up-front.
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post #9651 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 05:28 PM
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Was anyone on the team wearing a red shirt?
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post #9652 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Glen kills the sleeping guys and weeps inside about it. Then he sees his victims' trophies, polaroids of the people whose heads they presumably bashed in on shot off.

That's suppose to make Glen feel better?
Na, but it makes me feel better! Glen had never killed up to that point (a human), and he felt guilty and I felt bad for me as a viewer that he had to go there. But then when I saw the photos, I didn't feel bad at all - that dude had it coming!
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post #9653 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 06:05 PM
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Never seen Sons of Anarchy, have you ? It happened on there all of the time !
hey hall, yeah, I was a fan of SoA... up until season 4 or 5 ... ..
you're right same thing is starting to happen in Walking Dead...


I enjoyed the first few seasons of WD , but I think it's time to bump
off Rick or some of the other major players this season..
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post #9654 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 08:30 PM
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Perhaps tactically right
Definitely morally wrong


There isn't a scenario where murdering ~30 unknown/unencountered people in their sleep based on assumption of future interaction passes a moral litmus test.
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post #9655 of 10968 Old 03-08-2016, 09:57 PM
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Perhaps tactically right
Definitely morally wrong


There isn't a scenario where murdering ~30 unknown/unencountered people in their sleep based on assumption of future interaction passes a moral litmus test.
No doubt. And this was one of the questions on the Talking Dead - is the group still the good guys or not? How close will they get to the point of not return where they become like Negan's group? Or could we argue they are already there? Hey, maybe Negan's group is just doing the same thing - preempting in self-defense!

ARE there any rules left in the apocalypse?
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post #9656 of 10968 Old 03-09-2016, 10:16 AM
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I worry even less about the morality of what Rick and the gang are doing in their fight against Negan's forces than I do about whether there really are walkers in the world. That is to say, well, you get it.
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post #9657 of 10968 Old 03-09-2016, 10:32 AM
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It's the same reason I stopped watching House of Cards after season 1. I no longer liked Frank Underwood. I get it - that's the point. But it doesn't really work for me. It's no longer a story about people I respect, admire, can identify with. If I was in a situation where my friends went this direction - I'd separate from my friends at this point.
If you ever respected or admired Frank Underwood, I think you were watching that show all wrong.
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post #9658 of 10968 Old 03-09-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Perhaps tactically right
Definitely morally wrong


There isn't a scenario where murdering ~30 unknown/unencountered people in their sleep based on assumption of future interaction passes a moral litmus test.
Neegan's group made their intentions crystal clear to Daryl and the other two previously. It was basically a declaration of war. I saw this as self defense, especially with the group's history with other groups they've encountered.

It's not like they murder every group they encounter.
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post #9659 of 10968 Old 03-09-2016, 12:09 PM
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It's the Zombie Apocalypse .. morality left the building some time ago ..
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post #9660 of 10968 Old 03-09-2016, 01:27 PM
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It's the Zombie Apocalypse .. morality left the building some time ago ..
You beat me to it. The victims of the Zombie Apocalypse find themselves is a dog eat dog, kill or be killed world. It's ugly but it's where they are.
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