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post #10891 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
I thought of that possibility, but if that's the case, absolutely no one else is in on it - judging from Carl defending the medical supplies and other people giving him the stink-eye for handing over their guns.

Most of the people know about the plot with Maggie, so it's not like they can't keep a secret.

Further, if the logs were doctored, why show two missing? Why hand over the rocket launcher of all things which Negan clearly was surprised to see. At that point, Negan had taken the guns they had in the RV. Hand over another half a dozen long guns, a sniper rifle or two and a dozen or so hand guns and ammo (make sure everything is from what they took from the other Negan compound they obliterated). In other words, fill a rack with decoys leaving exactly the number of spaces empty for what they had in the RV and what they few armed residents were carrying.

You don't hand over a truck load if you're arming the secret militia. For all Negan knew, those were among only a few they went out with each time. They were training with machetes at one point, so they could certainly find a way to sell the idea that that is what they normally use behind the walls and only have a small cache of guns when they go outside.
Good points all around.
What I'm thinking is that the writers did all that for the viewers. They need to make us believe there is no hope left and that Rick has totally given up. We've already seen that the group has a nice stash of weapons so if he only handed over a small portion of them we'd know he has something planned. If he really just handed over all of their weapons it's game over. The only way the show could go on is if Negan's group revolted against him; which I guess is a possibility...
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post #10892 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 09:21 AM
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If Rick & Co. did hand over their entire arsenal, this could be a writer's "reset" , to get the core group back to eventually having a couple of guns, knives ect ... , rather than Rick's group countinuing on becoming this super powerful "rocket launcher" Justice League force ....
They could also 'eventually' , at a point in the future, get some or all of their weapons back whenever they eliminate Neeeegan.
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post #10893 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 10:52 AM
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The comic series is really a guide, not a gospel for the show .. Negan debuted in Issue 100 I believe .. it's now pushing issue 160 .. so, he will be around for a while .. I don't believe he will be a one or two season character, IOW ..

Without spoiling anything, unless dramatic changes occur between the comics and the show (and there have been some over the years) .. the Negan character has promise, at some point, to become more interesting and show greater depth ..

Although I agree with much of the assessment here, and have posted much the same since the new season, I remain cautiously optimistic that Kirkman and Crew will, at some point, explore the character beyond what we have seen so far ..

My only point being, we are early in and throwing in the towel may be a bit premature ... YMMV ..

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post #10894 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 11:28 AM
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Amazing how hard people will work to rationalize the really horrible writing.
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post #10895 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 11:32 AM
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The comic series is really a guide, not a gospel for the show .. Negan debuted in Issue 100 I believe .. it's now pushing issue 160 .. so, he will be around for a while .. I don't believe he will be a one or two season character, IOW ..

Without spoiling anything, unless dramatic changes occur between the comics and the show (and there have been some over the years) .. the Negan character has promise, at some point, to become more interesting and show greater depth ..

Although I agree with much of the assessment here, and have posted much the same since the new season, I remain cautiously optimistic that Kirkman and Crew will, at some point, explore the character beyond what we have seen so far ..

My only point being, we are early in and throwing in the towel may be a bit premature ... YMMV ..
That's a possibility. But I think the way Negan has been introduced so far, there is no hints as to a hidden depth to either him or his followers, and none showed any redeeming qualities for the viewers to throw them a bone and sit through multiple weeks of character building episodes to show how and why the Negan group turned out the way they were shown in the past few episodes.

Can we see a show of hands from those who find that story arc interesting after these past few weeks? They should have emulated LOST and opened the new season with flashbacks showing Negan's troupe in more sympathetic light. Right now I don't care and don't want to waste my time on any of his bunch.
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post #10896 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 11:36 AM
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The comic series is really a guide, not a gospel for the show .. Negan debuted in Issue 100 I believe .. it's now pushing issue 160 .. so, he will be around for a while .. I don't believe he will be a one or two season character, IOW ..

Without spoiling anything, unless dramatic changes occur between the comics and the show (and there have been some over the years) .. the Negan character has promise, at some point, to become more interesting and show greater depth ..

Although I agree with much of the assessment here, and have posted much the same since the new season, I remain cautiously optimistic that Kirkman and Crew will, at some point, explore the character beyond what we have seen so far ..

My only point being, we are early in and throwing in the towel may be a bit premature ... YMMV ..
The problem is, if we're looking at potentially multiple seasons of this stuff with Negan in charge and Rick's crew being weak and tortured and submissive, it's going to suck.

If what you say is true that Negan is potentially in it for the long run, cutting bait now may save having the equivalent of 2 or 3 seasons camping out at Hershel's farm.

I give it a few more episodes, but all I know is, right now, the show sucks for me.
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post #10897 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 11:51 AM
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The problem is, if we're looking at potentially multiple seasons of this stuff with Negan in charge and Rick's crew being weak and tortured and submissive, it's going to suck.
I don't read/know anything from the comics, but I can think of other possibilities for the writers ....
Rick's crew, for example, could "get away" from Neeegan's influence, but still have occasional run-in's with he or his crew ... Not every bad guy needs to be the Governor, & build to a quick end by one of Ricks posse ... Neegan & Rick could also end up teaming up, for the common goal of building a big cucumber garden ....
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post #10898 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 12:24 PM
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That's a possibility. But I think the way Negan has been introduced so far, there is no hints as to a hidden depth to either him or his followers, and none showed any redeeming qualities for the viewers to throw them a bone and sit through multiple weeks of character building episodes to show how and why the Negan group turned out the way they were shown in the past few episodes.

Can we see a show of hands from those who find that story arc interesting after these past few weeks? They should have emulated LOST and opened the new season with flashbacks showing Negan's troupe in more sympathetic light. Right now I don't care and don't want to waste my time on any of his bunch.
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The problem is, if we're looking at potentially multiple seasons of this stuff with Negan in charge and Rick's crew being weak and tortured and submissive, it's going to suck.

If what you say is true that Negan is potentially in it for the long run, cutting bait now may save having the equivalent of 2 or 3 seasons camping out at Hershel's farm.

I give it a few more episodes, but all I know is, right now, the show sucks for me.
I simply offer a possible better plot movement in the long term .. and clearly stated I agree with much of the negative assessment here .. to me, this season has had excessive filler and, so far, Negan is a Gas Bag of BS that is the filler .. I did very much enjoy the Kingdom and King Ezekiel, so there is that ..

Perhaps Father Gabriel buried some firepower in Maggie's mock grave .. ??

All I can tell you is, baring a major divergence from the comics, Negan will be around for some time ..

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post #10899 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 12:30 PM
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All I can tell you is, baring a major divergence from the comics, Negan will be around for some time ..
Spoiler!

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post #10900 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 12:33 PM
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I think you are over estimating the size of Neegan's force. One roadblock had about 6 guys on bikes with guns. The other had lumber in the road with no signs of people, just someone talking (the lumber pile could have been done over weeks by a few people).
Not really - when they were finally captured that fateful night, it was pretty clear Negan has a very large, and well-armed force.
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post #10901 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 03:21 PM
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The one non-cliche thing that Negan said was how creepy Gabriel was. Anybody get what hand gesture or tapping that Gabriel gave to Rick when he showed Negan Maggie's "grave"?
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post #10902 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 03:28 PM
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The one non-cliche thing that Negan said was how creepy Gabriel was. Anybody get what hand gesture or tapping that Gabriel gave to Rick when he showed Negan Maggie's "grave"?
That's why I mentioned a few posts ago what may be buried in the mock grave .. perhaps the good Father is smarter than we think ..

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post #10903 of 11088 Old 11-16-2016, 04:10 PM
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The one non-cliche thing that Negan said was how creepy Gabriel was. Anybody get what hand gesture or tapping that Gabriel gave to Rick when he showed Negan Maggie's "grave"?

Heh, that was pretty funny.
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post #10904 of 11088 Old 11-17-2016, 05:21 AM
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The one non-cliche thing that Negan said was how creepy Gabriel was. Anybody get what hand gesture or tapping that Gabriel gave to Rick when he showed Negan Maggie's "grave"?
He was just wiping the dirt off his hands and clothes, which was to tell us he just dug the grave as a ruse.

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post #10905 of 11088 Old 11-17-2016, 08:02 PM
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So Negan's style of leadership seems to be to humiliate underlings. And this gets him fanatical loyalty?

Dwight gets egg sandwiches and the ability to taunt Rosita, in exchange for being disfigured and having his wife taken away from him.

Rick is emasculated in front of all of Alexandria and Negan throws some homoerotic humiliation as a last dig. What did he get for that? Gets to stay alive? No more losses of those close to him? Negan doesn't decide to **** Michone in front of him?


Of course they're going to fight back at some point or else there's no point in continuing with the show. Who's going to watch a bunch of slaves being smirked and bored to death by Negan for more than a season?


When they do fight back, it better be a quick and decisive battle because the casualties will be grim if it's drawn out. Yet the producers want to milk this character, thinking it's ratings gold. But if they keep trotting out this ham who's also homicidal, it's got to turn off viewers right? Right?

Who wants to keep watching this bad dye job who can't even fill up skinny pants preen on camera about how much of a badass he is? He's only a badass because of his army and honestly, it's a wonder there aren't constant mutiny attempts because he's not scary enough to dole out all the humiliation.


If they do keep Negan for a couple of seasons and they finally defeat him, what then? An even bigger ******* bad guy to fight? As ridiculous as that would be, it sounds like the show runners don't have any other ideas than sticking to this repetitive template.
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post #10906 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 07:00 AM
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There are certainly plenty of shows that are much worse on TV.

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post #10907 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 08:52 AM
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There are certainly plenty of shows that are much worse on TV.
That's like saying there are cars more dangerous than the Ford Pinto....

There's too much good stuff out there to waste time with stuff that is merely better than the worst stuff. I've cut a lot of shows that in previous seasons I would have kept because there was so much better stuff out there, some of it had to go.

Heck, even some of the stuff I continued to record this last season is still sitting on my DVR - waiting to potentially simply delete.
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post #10908 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 09:00 AM
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I owned a 1978 Pinto sedan and loved it. Just sayin...

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post #10909 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 09:14 AM
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I owned a 1978 Pinto sedan and loved it. Just sayin...

My 1979 Pinto hatchback never exploded.
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post #10910 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 09:18 AM
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My 1979 Pinto hatchback never exploded.
Mine didn't either. I always referred to it as "The Mighty Pinto".

Replaced the timing belt in the driveway in an hour.

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post #10911 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 09:39 AM
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Mine didn't either. I always referred to it as "The Mighty Pinto".

Replaced the timing belt in the driveway in an hour.
Mine was used as an autocross and track day car (ESS model). Never let me down.
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post #10912 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 10:26 AM
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There are certainly plenty of shows that are much worse on TV.
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That's like saying there are cars more dangerous than the Ford Pinto....

There's too much good stuff out there to waste time with stuff that is merely better than the worst stuff. I've cut a lot of shows that in previous seasons I would have kept because there was so much better stuff out there, some of it had to go.

Heck, even some of the stuff I continued to record this last season is still sitting on my DVR - waiting to potentially simply delete.
+1.
"Better than the worst" is a very low bar to set.
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post #10913 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 11:02 AM
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I owned a 1978 Pinto sedan and loved it. Just sayin...

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My 1979 Pinto hatchback never exploded.
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Mine didn't either. I always referred to it as "The Mighty Pinto".

Replaced the timing belt in the driveway in an hour.
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Mine was used as an autocross and track day car (ESS model). Never let me down.
Lot's of people owned Samsung Note 7's that didn't catch fire.

Lot's of people had Ford Explorers with Firestone tires that didn't flip them. The same goes for Jeep CJs and Suzuki Samurai's.

Plenty of people do repairs to electrical outlets without turning of the power without shocking themselves.

My Dad loved his chemistry set when he was a kid that actually contained samples of Mercury, Lead, Asbestos and Radium.

That doesn't mean those things were inherently dangerous.
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post #10914 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 11:23 AM
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Lot's of people owned Samsung Note 7's that didn't catch fire.

Lot's of people had Ford Explorers with Firestone tires that didn't flip them. The same goes for Jeep CJs and Suzuki Samurai's.

Plenty of people do repairs to electrical outlets without turning of the power without shocking themselves.

My Dad loved his chemistry set when he was a kid that actually contained samples of Mercury, Lead, Asbestos and Radium.

That doesn't mean those things were inherently dangerous.
They simply carry a greater degree of risk .. and, I must say, I never thought about my childhood chemistry set till now, but thanks for that .. .. at my age, (71) I have yet to notice any long term effects, however, you never know .. now, I have another worry ..

Outlet / switch change without power off .. ?? Guilty on multiple occasions .. you just have to be careful ..

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post #10915 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 11:48 AM
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They simply carry a greater degree of risk .. and, I must say, I never thought about my childhood chemistry set till now, but thanks for that .. .. at my age, (71) I have yet to notice any long term effects, however, you never know .. now, I have another worry ..

Outlet / switch change without power off .. ?? Guilty on multiple occasions .. you just have to be careful ..

Just wait. The day you turn 72 your left leg will get shorter.

The key to repairing live outlets without getting zapped is either not knowing or forgetting to turn the breaker off. Knowing it's still on and just trying to be sneaky always seems to end badly.
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post #10916 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 12:04 PM
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Just wait. The day you turn 72 your left leg will get shorter.

The key to repairing live outlets without getting zapped is either not knowing or forgetting to turn the breaker off. Knowing it's still on and just trying to be sneaky always seems to end badly.
In my case, it's just being lazy .. .. and, although I've never yet been shocked, if I were, it might be a case of self inflicted defibrillation .. ..

Disclaimer :: In no way, shape or form do I condone or recommend changing out electrical outlets or switches without first turning off the breaker ..

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post #10917 of 11088 Old 11-18-2016, 12:13 PM
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Rick's 1000 yard stare is getting over used and I find it completely unbelievable and over acted. They need to stop that.
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post #10918 of 11088 Old 11-20-2016, 08:15 PM
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Well, complain about the show all you want. I'm in it for the duration, but I'm easy to entertain.
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post #10919 of 11088 Old 11-20-2016, 09:15 PM
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Well, complain about the show all you want. I'm in it for the duration, but I'm easy to entertain.
LOL! Easy, huh?

Let me guess: you were the peekaboo champion as a kid....
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post #10920 of 11088 Old 11-21-2016, 03:19 AM
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Tonight's episode was basically a repeat of last week's.

Also, can anyone who's read the comic say whether there has ever been a bad guy who was still alive in the comic when they appeared on the show?

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