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post #361 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

...

Since I missed Nigel's address to the girls I'll have to ask the rest of you if he made a comment to Ryan about not connecting with the audience similar to the one he made to Ricky.

I can't recall exactly what he said, but no, nothing that blunt, because I recall being surprised by the bluntness of the comment to Ricky.

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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

...
... when a dance as BAD as Sasha and Alexander's beats out both Ryan and Ricky AND Jordan and Tadd. It's a simple fact: Sasha and/or Alexander have a huge fan base -- or perhaps just a few huge fans. We all KNOW Sasha has at least ONE VERY HUGE fan, the one who almost made it on the show with her, who likely votes hundreds of times with her phone every week for her sister -- along with every friend and family member she can muster... Of course most dancer's on the show likely have friends and family who do the same, but I'm guessing there might just be "a little extra OOMPH" in Sasha's corner to explain an anomaly like this week. I think Sasha's a great dancer, but that routine was attrocious... Of course it COULD be Alexander's fan base, as well. I very seldom see things from that perspective, lol. Kent's one of the few guys I've ever found myself rooting for, and he got tiresome at times (I found myself liking Robert better by the end).
Jeff

All this is reminding me of why I don't like this format of voting for the pair instead of voting for the individual. We end up with these anomalies where we can't tell if it's Ryan or Ricky lack of popularity that's dragging down the pair and putting them in the bottom three behind much worse performances.

And we end up with pairings like Jess and Clarice which just aren't working but are never broken up because they're never in the bottom three presumably because the are both bringing a lot of votes to the pair.

It seems to me that the voting could still be for the individual even during this stage. But, perhaps the producers think that the public is too stupid to be able to deal with two phones numbers per performance.
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post #362 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by skyehill View Post

I havent commented on the show for the years I didn't watch it. Do you deny that the two recent episodes stank? The first 3 weeks of the actual dancing portion produced some memorable dances and routines, but this past week was dreadful. I'm supposed to lie and claim it wasn't?

There were some good routines and some that clearly didn't click but to define the show itself as "dreadful"? Not hardly.
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post #363 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

All this is reminding me of why I don't like this format of voting for the pair instead of voting for the individual. We end up with these anomalies where we can't tell if it's Ryan or Ricky lack of popularity that's dragging down the pair and putting them in the bottom three behind much worse performances.

And we end up with pairings like Jess and Clarice which just aren't working but are never broken up because they're never in the bottom three presumably because the are both bringing a lot of votes to the pair.

It seems to me that the voting could still be for the individual even during this stage. But, perhaps the producers think that the public is too stupid to be able to deal with two phones numbers per performance.

The show runners seem hell bent on looking at the couples as single entries even if that means that a good dancer gets an untimely elimination because his/her partner didn't carry the water. You have to think that the new format with the All-stars entering the picture when it's down to the top ten is the driving force here. It really shouldn't make a difference but it's played out that way every week and that's more than coincidence at some point.
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post #364 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

I think Sasha's a great dancer, but that routine was attrocious... Of course it COULD be Alexander's fan base, as well. I very seldom see things from that perspective, lol. Kent's one of the few guys I've ever found myself rooting for, and he got tiresome at times (I found myself liking Robert better by the end).
Jeff

As usual my brother from another mother, I agree. Sasha is a beautiful girl and a riveting dancer given the right material. I hope that sub-par choreography doesn't lead to her premature demise. Speaking of the choreography, it seems to me that it was very strong in the first few shows but was more erratic last night (and I do agree with Brother skyehill here). The only explanation that I can think of is the number of new choreographers the last few weeks and perhaps their different perceptions of the show and the expectations. And I agree with a previous post about the judges laying some of the performance let downs at the feet of the choreographers but I would imagine that, from a professional courtesy standpoint, that would be dicey.
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post #365 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

There were some good routines and some that clearly didn't click but to define the show itself as "dreadful"? Not hardly.

Sorry, but I've enjoyed most nights of the show this season, but Wednesday was dreadful to me right on down to Carmen Electra. And I found results night to be barely watchable with the exception of Florence and the Machine. I thought they were great.
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post #366 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by skyehill View Post

Sorry, but I've enjoyed most nights of the show this season, but Wednesday was dreadful to me right on down to Carmen Electra. And I found results night to be barely watchable with the exception of Florence and the Machine. I thought they were great.

Well you'll get no argument on Ms. Electra. I figured that she was absent on Thursday because her village had found its long lost idiot and led her home with bread crumbs. I agree with you about Florence. It was great performance. She has a wonderfully unique voice.
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post #367 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

I guess I'm the only one that noticed there were only 6 boys in that opening Bollywood number?

When I first noticed it, I assumed Mitchell was probably sitting it out since the judges keep mentioning that he is still injured.

But after the eliminations, I went back and looked at it again and it was actually Chris that was missing. So I guess he had already given up before the show actually began. But, if the judges were thinking of eliminating someone else, skipping the opening number would go a long way to changing their minds.

Or a more likely scenario is he got injured when they were putting in that routine, and he did not have time to learn it.
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post #368 of 840 Old 07-08-2011, 07:23 PM
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Well you'll get no argument on Ms. Electra. I figured that she was absent on Thursday because her village had found its long lost idiot and led her home with bread crumbs. I agree with you about Florence. It was great performance. She has a wonderfully unique voice.

The only dancing I associate Carmen with involves a pole. But my main issue with her is that as a judge she brought absolutely nothing interesting to the proceedings, whereas I thought Kristen last week was awesome. I may regret saying this, but I look forward to Gaga's turn as a judge. She was downright awful as a mentor on Idol, but this seems more her speed. I doubt 'boring' will be a word I use to describe her episode.
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post #369 of 840 Old 07-10-2011, 03:59 PM
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Tivo is showing Cat Deeley on The Late Show with Craig Ferguson(Monday 7-11 CBS), of course as we all know things can change
Oh and Nigel is supposed to be on The Talk(Wed 7-13 CBS).
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post #370 of 840 Old 07-11-2011, 06:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Tivo is showing Cat Deeley on The Late Show with Craig Ferguson(Monday 7-11 CBS), of course as we all know things can change
Oh and Nigel is supposed to be on The Talk(Wed 7-13 CBS).

Damn. You italicized showing, and my first thought was that you did it for a completely different reason.
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post #371 of 840 Old 07-13-2011, 07:09 PM
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Sasha/Alexander Paso doble: love this style, very well done. Sasha was dominate. A favorite to win for sure.

Jordan/Tadd Contemporary: I wish I could swear about this! What intensity and power! Who is this Travis? Wow, he is so amazing and talented beyond belief.

Ryan/Ricky Broadway: zzzzzzzzzz.... Sonya said it right--and we often debate poor choreography ruining a contestant's chance--but even if they didn't get the routine to make them shine, you've got to execute. These two have danced their swan song.

Caitlyn/Mitchell Hip hop: oh boy, a sensitive theme. And what? It got bad reviews! Whoa! It wasn't synchronous. Caitlyn out danced Mitchell tenfold. Well I didn't get the theme of the dance either. Seemed more like it was dedicated to the Congo but the dance wasn't about the Congo itself.

Melanie/Marko Tango: I could not help but stare at their feet the whole time because they were so intertwined I just knew something bad was gonna happen. Nope! well done!

Jess/Clarice Lyrical hip hop: not a Jess fan, I'll say it up front. But he's gonna make top 10. The smooth song vs the sharp movements of hip hop clashed for me on this piece.

-----

Sasha/Alexander contemporary: did Sasha fall at the end? Well, anyway, t'was good. Judges were gaga but it didn't stand out to me. /shrug.

Jordan/Tadd Broadway: it was fun but plain. After the big kiss a few weeks ago, does everyone think including one will earn votes now? The hungry vulture got fed and decided to take a nap. But the vulture will save them from bottom 3.

Ryan/Ricky ChaCha: I went into this wondering if Ryan could be "hot". She seemed more playful. Ah, Nigel just said Ryan overdid it....yah.

Caitlyn/Mitchell jazz: sassy, but they'll be bottom 3.

Melanie/Marko contemporary: neat concept. Danced full and big and free. Beautiful. Definitely a Melanie fan. This pairing was probably the best of the first half of the season.

Jess/Clarice jive: I mean I guess it was good but the partnership doesn't work for me. They don't have chemistry and we've already talked about the perceived tension.

----------

My prediction: Jess/Clarice, Ryan/Ricky, and Caitlyn/Mitchell in bottom 3. Ryan and Ricky go home.
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post #372 of 840 Old 07-13-2011, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Great to see Sonya as a guest judge... don't really know that other goomer, lol.

Team 1 -- Sasha & Alexander...
Dance 1. Ole! Sasha and Alexander REALLY needed to BRING IT this week after such a weak performance last week that SHOULD HAVE landed them in the B3 -- and for the most part, they did -- I agree with Nigel and Mary that Sasha outdanced Alexander, but he held his own, for the most part.
Dance 2. Sasha and Alexander are DEFINITELY going to the Top 10! That's Life!

Team 2 -- Jordan & Tadd...
Dance 1. WOW! Travis is REALLY buckin' for another Emmy! Jordan and Tadd were incredible, but his choreography was even MORESO!
Dance 2. Yeah, Mary said it -- it was "cotton candy," and too much of it -- just not enough "quirk" (somebody needed to watch Toni Basil videos and "The Rocky Horror Picture Show," lol). I still think they're safe to the Top 10 UNLESS the B3 couples end up as something like Melanie and Marko, them, and maybe Sasha and Alexander

Team 3 -- Ryan & Ricky...
Dance 1. Man, things just KEEP getting tighter! I could have SWORN I was watching a LIVE Broadway performance -- the judges disagree with me for once, but I was looking at their facial expressions as much as their dance steps... Maybe it was that "first 30 seconds..." Guess I'll have to watch it again later.
Dance 2. Ryan looked like she was S T R E T C H I N G herself just to get through some of the steps near the end... Yeah, as Nigel said, it looked just "a bit sloppy." UNLESS they've picked up some new fans, they're likely in the B3 again this week. I think Ryan may have peaked (she may be able to dance better, but perhaps she's "choking" due to nerves, as Sonya suggested).

Team 4 -- Caitlyn & Mitchell...
Dance 1. Caitlyn and Mitchell just left me sort of... lost -- after hearing the judges I understood why -- they weren't in unison (I actually saw where they WERE in unison a time or two -- but they weren't most of the time) -- gotta be in hip hop. Oh well. Mitchell said beforehand he wasn't going to be as concerned with the dance steps as with the message -- HIS loss.
Dance 2. I didn't think it was quite as great as the judges did -- started out STUPENDOUS, but I thought Caitlyn was smiling at the audience too much -- FINALLY, Nigel is saying what I just typed, lol -- she shouldn't have been looking at and smiling at the audience -- took away from the routine (I lost my belief he was "tearing out pieces of her heart" when she did that). Ryan's had that same issue in the past. They SHOULD BE in the B3 couples this week.

Team 5 -- Melanie & Marko...
Dance 1. There they go again! Melanie and Marko -- can't be stopped! That tango was TOUGH and they really pulled it off! That between-the-legs move at the end, I agree with Nigel, it was INCREDIBLE! Sonya said they "take her breath away," and that they're "timeless dancers," high praise, indeed, from Sonya.
Dance 2. I'm with Sonya... "I'm so grateful this is the future of dance," and Nigel -- not excited about having to break THAT couple up next week, aside from all the others. I see BOTH of them in the Final Four! Then again, ALL the power goes to the viewers next week, so who knows??? The both SHOULD end up in the Final Four. I can say that.

Team 6 -- Clarice & Jess...
Dance 1. That was a really NICE lyrical hip-hop Chistopher Scott choreographed for Clarice and Jess (they're lucky they didn't get the African-Abductee dance!). I agree; it was pretty good. I enjoyed it.
Dance 2. HOT! Oh, I think they're safe, Nigel.

Teams 2, 3 & 4 SHOULD end up in the B3 this week... Then again, Sasha and Alexander SHOULD have been there last week, so who knows? Also, that first routine Jordan and Tadd did WAS killer -- might be enough to save them. But since they've been falling down already, I doubt it. Caitlyn and Mitchell just look OUT OF THEIR CLASS at this point. The jury's out for me on Ryan (since I thought she was better than the judges did on her first dance). She certainly looked a bit "strained" in her last dance. I just went back and looked at Ryan and Ricky's first dance again -- replaying parts of it several times over -- and I saw NOTHING wrong with it. Every move seemed to be executed perfectly. They seemed to have the entire tone of the piece nailed PERFECTLY. Whatever was "wrong" with that was the CHOREOGRAPHER'S fault, NOT theirs. MAYBE the one lift was "a bit shallow." That's all I could see. In one kick, Ryan ALMOST kicked herself IN THE NOSE! We've said it before; I'LL say it again: It's NOT FAIR to blame dancers for LACKLUSTER CHOREOGRAPHY! At any rate, they're likely B3 again.
Jeff

Life is the only constant...

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post #373 of 840 Old 07-13-2011, 10:08 PM
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Do they really need 4 judges? He's probably a good actor, but he brought nothing to the judges table tonight. With that said, it was an infinitely better dance night than last week. Jess actually made me like him momentarily in his first number, but that may have more to do with the Boyce Avenue cover song they danced to. My 3 favorite girls all shined, so I think I'm golden with them being top 10 (Melanie, Jordan, and Sasha). I'd watch Melanie dance the phone book (is that a thing?). Time for Ricky and Ryan to go home.
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post #374 of 840 Old 07-13-2011, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I actually think Caitlyn and Mitchell are a bit below Ryan and Ricky, but it's a close call... I'd say regardless those 4 are likely to be the next 4 to go, even with the couples being split up after this week.

Life is the only constant...

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post #375 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 05:51 AM
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Safe Teams

Sasha and Alexander: The second dance was one of the best of the season easily. The first dance was a odd mix of contemporary and ball room. It was good, but it was disjointed.

Jordan And Tadd: I am not sure if it is fair to blame the dancers if the music, the costumes, and the choreography are questionable. I am fairly certain they will be in the bottom three because of it. I do not think either of the two are in danger of going home.

Melanie And Marko: Not the smoothest tango we have seen on the show, but they get credit for the difficulty of the routine especially the lift at the end. The second routine was very smooth.

Clarice & Jess: I keep wanting to knock the kid but Jess has gotten better with each week. I thought he was really good in the hip hop number for a Broadway kid. The second routine was good. Jess really needs to step up her game once they split. She has not been the spotlight much during this season.


Teams In danger

Ryan And Ricky: They were completely forgettable in the first dance. The choreographer should get some blame for giving them nothing to do, but there have been dancers who have done more with that much. The second routine was OK, but seemed to loose momentum halfway through.

Caitlyn And Mitchel: They were killed by the promo piece before their dance. It had absolutely nothing to do with what they did on stage. The second routine was not enough to save them from the bottom.

I would take Caitlyn and Mitchel over Ryan and Ricky. Mitchel is a much better performer than Ricky. Caitlyn and Ryan is a toss, but I think Caitlyn has more potential for growth.
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post #376 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 06:34 AM
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Does anyone else feel like hip hop has sucked this year? Are they waiting for the all stars to bring in the harder hitting stuff. It almost feels like soft porn compared to what it should be.

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
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post #377 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 07:48 AM
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I have watched this show through every season. This is the first year I find my self just not caring about anybody. Maybe it will change next week with the all stars.
Last night I just fell asleep multiple times. Maybe I am just getting old. Maybe I am just not getting emotionally connected to the stories anymore. Maybe the pompous judging without real constructive criticism is turning me off. I don't know but the love is going fast.
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post #378 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 08:25 AM
 
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I have watched this show through every season. This is the first year I find my self just not caring about anybody. Maybe it will change next week with the all stars.
Last night I just fell asleep multiple times. Maybe I am just getting old. Maybe I am just not getting emotionally connected to the stories anymore. Maybe the pompous judging without real constructive criticism is turning me off. I don't know but the love is going fast.

It's not just you. There have multiple issues this season.

First, the judges shouted from the mountaintops that this was "The greatest top 20 ever." This has proved to be a flat-out lie. There have been so good moments here and there, but aside from Melanie and Marko, not one team has shown greatness on a consistent basis.

Secondly, the choreography has been incredibly dumbed-down (Sasha and Alexander's "Patty Cake" hip-hop ) and uninspired; the former is no doubt due to the lack of skill that the top 20 is bringing to the table, the latter is because we've seen so many new choreograhers this year.

Third, the judges are overly full of praise, but it's keenly selective. Perhaps it's due to the first issue, and they don't want to admit the "GREATEST EVER!" lie outright, or they are in complete denial. More likely, it's due to the fact that they refuse to EVER give a bad critique of poor choreography. Last night was full of performances that were overtly lacking (Ryan and Ricki's Brodaway, Jordan and Tadd's 80's fairy tale, etc.) and yet only the dancers get panned. Hard to net praise when you're asked to simply walk around on stage and nothing more.

Last, there have been some poor decisions made this year; refusing to break up couples being the biggest. In fairness, every dancer should have the opportunity to shine and not be weighed down by anyone else. That said, the show is never fair. The judges pimp their favorites incessantly, even when they're nowhere near as good as they claim (Sasha) yet continually beat down those they're not fond of for whatever reason (Alexander).

Dont get me wrong. I still love the show (it's 1,000,000 times better than that American Idol or Dancing with the Has-Been garbage) but this is BY FAR my least favorite season to date. Maybe things will change once the All-Stars enter the picture. Here's to hope!
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post #379 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 08:34 AM
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Does anyone else feel like hip hop has sucked this year? Are they waiting for the all stars to bring in the harder hitting stuff. It almost feels like soft porn compared to what it should be.

I think last year may have skewed the perception of hip hop. The All Stars helped to bring up the level of dancing from the previous couple of seasons. I will say there have been too many routines where the two people are just miming poses next to each for long periods of time.
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post #380 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 08:55 AM
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Sasha and Alexander: The second dance was one of the best of the season easily. The first dance was a odd mix of contemporary and ball room. It was good, but it was disjointed.

My daughter, who is on the East Coast, records the show and then watches it when we do on the West Coast so we text back and forth while watching. As soon as Alexander opened on the second dance with Sasha, I texted that he had really stepped up his game. It was easily his best effort of the season and he and Sasha were terrific.
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post #381 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 08:57 AM
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Is it wrong that I want Melanie to be in the bottom just so I can see her do a solo dance?
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post #382 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 08:58 AM
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Does anyone else feel like hip hop has sucked this year?

I thought the woodpecker routine a few weeks ago was great. No one else did.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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post #383 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 09:01 AM
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I think last year may have skewed the perception of hip hop. The All Stars helped to bring up the level of dancing from the previous couple of seasons. I will say there have been too many routines where the two people are just miming poses next to each for long periods of time.

Absolutely agree. Many of the Hip Hop routines have looked almost like two dancers in a studio practicing their moves but not necessarily together. That said, Nappytabs have been very good so far. They seem, after so many seasons on the show, to have an innate sense of what their dancers can and should do.
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post #384 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 09:07 AM
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Is it wrong that I want Melanie to be in the bottom just so I can see her do a solo dance?

That would be a unique way to get your quota of Melanie greatness. Not sure she would agree though She and Marko really do do remind me of Katee and Joshua when it comes to their ability to completely sell out on their routines. There have been a couple of dances that were so intense and so heavily invested that Marko has had some trouble breaking character when they concluded. That's damn special.
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post #385 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Third, the judges are overly full of praise, but it's keenly selective. Perhaps it's due to the first issue, and they don't want to admit the "GREATEST EVER!" lie outright, or they are in complete denial.

I thought the judging was very fair last night. They all got booed, even Mary I think who even found minor faults in the excellent Tango routine.

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More likely, it's due to the fact that they refuse to EVER give a bad critique of poor choreography. Last night was full of performances that were overtly lacking (Ryan and Ricki's Brodaway, Jordan and Tadd's 80's fairy tale, etc.) and yet only the dancers get panned. Hard to net praise when you're asked to simply walk around on stage and nothing more.

But this is nothing new. Choreographers are never criticized. Never. They're all geniuses who create perfect routines and it's up to the dancers to make them look good. The judges will criticize the routine itself (like it wasn't quirky enough) in polite terms but never point a finger. I'd really like Nigel to stand up and ask one of them "What the hell was that? Was that the best you could come up with?" some time. There were some strange song selections last night too.

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post #386 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 11:00 AM
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It kinda felt like a choreographer got called out last night. The one that did the dreadful dance about children being forced to fight (I felt like I was being forced to watch that crappy dance because my wife wouldnt let me fast forward). They didnt come out and say the dance was bad, but all of their words said so. Stuff like, "you should rise above the material", "make do with what you got" etc etc. I dont get why they're not critiqued as harshly as the dancers when their role is so pivotal to the outcome.
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post #387 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by scowl View Post

I thought the judging was very fair last night. They all got booed, even Mary I think who even found minor faults in the excellent Tango routine.


But this is nothing new. Choreographers are never criticized. Never. They're all geniuses who create perfect routines and it's up to the dancers to make them look good. The judges will criticize the routine itself (like it wasn't quirky enough) in polite terms but never point a finger. I'd really like Nigel to stand up and ask one of them "What the hell was that? Was that the best you could come up with?" some time. There were some strange song selections last night too.

It would be better if the judging was something concrete. For example when they the smile gets in the way or you need to point your toes.
When they say it was too quirky or not quirky enough what the heck does a dancer do with that!
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post #388 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 11:54 AM
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I agree with a concensus which seems to be forming that Ryan & Ricky and Caitlyn & Mitchell will be in bottom three. What I'd like to see happen is Ryan and Mitchell get tossed and it seems much more possible this week since they don't have the motive of keeping their original pairings together. I don't think that any other team really deserves it, so whoever else incidentally ends up with them is essentially safe.

I'd also agree that the guess judge was not particularly useful, but I thought that he was pretty funny and obviously a huge fan of the show and the encouragement of currently active dancers doesn't hurt.

I need to watch the performances again. It was late when I watched and I'm struggling with a flu so my memory of some of it is a bit fuzzy. Strangely, I remember the stinker routines much more clearly than the good ones .

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post #389 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by skyehill View Post

It kinda felt like a choreographer got called out last night. The one that did the dreadful dance about children being forced to fight (I felt like I was being forced to watch that crappy dance because my wife wouldnt let me fast forward). They didnt come out and say the dance was bad, but all of their words said so. Stuff like, "you should rise above the material", "make do with what you got" etc etc. I dont get why they're not critiqued as harshly as the dancers when their role is so pivotal to the outcome.

Yep, Nigel is normally fairly subtle about how he goes after a choreographer. He will mention "not having much to do" which I see as a knock on the choreography. What we do see a lot is a small criticism followed by never seeing that person on the show again.
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post #390 of 840 Old 07-14-2011, 01:26 PM
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Yep, Nigel is normally fairly subtle about how he goes after a choreographer. He will mention "not having much to do" which I see as a knock on the choreography. What we do see a lot is a small criticism followed by never seeing that person on the show again.

If I'm remembering things clearly, didn't that guy then come back later in the show and have one of the better choreographed dances? I might have that wrong. Seemed to be a real up and down night. Louis from DWTS had one good one and one semi-good one too, but I think the bad one was more the fault of the dancers.
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