'So You Think You Can Dance' Season Eight - FOX HD - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 840 Old 06-04-2011, 12:42 PM
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SYTYCD(Dick Clark productions) is known for being very vigilant about removing such videos When I learned that Canada had a version I went searching to find episodes, only to be shutout The official Canadian website blocked US users from downloading the official versions(CBC.CA) and of course the more legitimate sites like Youtube had them removed almost as fast as they were posted. The only way I saw to get them was from file sharing websites(torrents) many times based overseas, but I didn't want to go through that. Why the official website should specifically want to block US residents is beyond me:confused, I'm guessing the Canadians can download from FOX.com but I'm not sure....
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post #92 of 840 Old 06-04-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Distorted View Post

Thanks for the videos, but I'm sure you are joking about Get Some as music for a routine this year. I would like to see a dance choreographed to that tune though, as I am sure the old letch, Nigel, would too...in private.

...

No I'm actually serious about that one and not really serious about the Alexis crack ( I just couldn't resist needling Jeanine's fans ).

I think SYTYCD likes to be so trendy and current and hip and Get Some is just too good a fit for either a Sonya Jazz routine or a NappyTab hip-hop-fusion routine that they won't be able to resist the temptation.
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post #93 of 840 Old 06-04-2011, 01:20 PM
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This show is killing in the ratings. 67% ahead of the number 2 show. Nice!

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post #94 of 840 Old 06-04-2011, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

SYTYCD(Dick Clark productions) is known for being very vigilant about removing such videos...

I'll never understand that at all.

It's not like SYTYCD puts out DVD/BD releases of their shows and I've never seen a rerun of any kind.
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post #95 of 840 Old 06-04-2011, 05:41 PM
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The lack of any apparent interest by SYTYCD execs to publish a DVD/BD of the performances has been a continuing source of wonder to me, as I am sure it is to many here. I suspect any well done disc would get many fan buys, and should be a relatively easy production from existing recordings. I doubt if the talent has any or much financial contract rights to their work, and it should be a winner for the rights owners. Please though, just give us the dances w/o the fluff.

In a similar vein, some years ago I ran into Lyle Lovett in the airport in a line and accosted him telling him how much I enjoyed a Crossroads show he did with Bonnie Raitt and asked him why that show didn't release their work in disc form. He just shrugged and acted like he didn't have a clue or care. Like SYTYCD, there are several Crossroad shows I would pay for a disc in a heartbeat.

Don't misunderstand, Lyle Lovette was extremely cordial, and his girl friend put his old squeeze to shame, BTW.

.........

"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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post #96 of 840 Old 06-04-2011, 06:01 PM
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A few days ago, somebody asked Nigel about this on twitter. His response was that they have not done it and will not be able to do it because of the music rights - somehow they have rights to do the show with the music used, but nothing further. Of course, money can solve any problem so apparently not enough has been offered yet...
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post #97 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

My wife joking said last night "Where's sex?"

Katee, best SYTYCD dancer ever.

My wife uses the "I miss sex" line, which, sadly, she probably does (but that's another topic).

My all-time favorite was Janette (I thing that's how you spell it) who never even made it to the finals.
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post #98 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

This show is killing in the ratings. 67% ahead of the number 2 show. Nice!

+1. I must admit that my appreciation of that rating arises from 3 reasons:
1) It's nice that this show gets recognized because it may be the best of its genre based on its unique combination of energy, enthusiasm, and talent.
2) Because it's the only one of its genre I've sampled, liked, and regularly watch. So it's partly snob appeal.
3) Everything else I like on the tube, primarily complex serialized dramas, gets no love from Big America and quickly gets itself cancelled.
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post #99 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 07:37 AM
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My local FOX channel is finally starting to promote SYTYCD(talking about it during the news, coming up advertisements, etc.). For years they've heavily promoted AI, it's nice they are finally starting to recognize SYTYCD
On another positive note......no talk about jaggies this year It's so nice to have the show in real HD and not upconverted like it was for years. Upconverted can look pretty good(and seems to fool quite a few people) but true HD like they have now is very much appreciated.
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post #100 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 10:35 AM
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I'm hoping that the audio will improve.

I know I sound like a broken record, but between AI and SYTYCD both having inferior audio levels (I've got to turn the volume WAY up to have it sound decent), particularly on the C channel (listening in DD5.1) it really looks like it might be the "flagship" KTTV-DT here in LA which is the common variable.

I'm watching/listening OTA ATSC, not re-compressed by TWC/LA. And it's annoying enough to be annoying... turn up the volume or not.

Hopefully, Vegas week will sound better. We shall see.

But it's mostly who gets cut or not that now will be most important.
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post #101 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 02:05 PM
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There sure seemed to be a lot of spoilers in the Vegas week preview at the end of the last episode.
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post #102 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bpeacock22 View Post

I fully expect the young lady from Japan to make Top 20. But you just never know....some of the best auditioners crash and burn during Vegas week.

If she makes it, then they REALLY need to do a routine to the Flaming Lip's Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots.

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post #103 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Distorted View Post

The lack of any apparent interest by SYTYCD execs to publish a DVD/BD of the performances has been a continuing source of wonder to me, as I am sure it is to many here. I suspect any well done disc would get many fan buys, and should be a relatively easy production from existing recordings. I doubt if the talent has any or much financial contract rights to their work, and it should be a winner for the rights owners.

Getting the mechanical rights to the music during the performances is expensive and probably wouldn't cover the cost of DVD releases.

At least SYTYCD gives the dancers and choreographers original music for the performances. A swing dancing couple I know appeared on a syndicated dance show performing to a classic jazz recording. The show decided the air rights to the fifty year old recording would just be too expensive so they replaced it with music by some anonymous band playing a corny neo-swing song that they probably came up with in five minutes.

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post #104 of 840 Old 06-05-2011, 05:31 PM
 
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Well, here's where I disagree with corporate thinking. If a show like SYTYCD wants to put out a DVD in which my music is used, then pay me a small percentage of the sales. There have been countless numbers on this show that I've enjoyed, mostly due to the dancing and not the music itself. However, we have bought some CDs based upon the music used by the show that we never, ever in a million years would have without it. That's money that wouldn't be gained otherwise.

This is distinctly different than a movie, wherein they might produce a seperate soundtrack only. It's not like I'm going to pop the SYTYCD DVD into the player just because I want to hear one song. Besides, with all the pirating today, I'd rather gain some small amount of cash by lending out my tunes to a show like this than none at all.
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post #105 of 840 Old 06-06-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Well, here's where I disagree with corporate thinking. If a show like SYTYCD wants to put out a DVD in which my music is used, then pay me a small percentage of the sales.

After every artist has gotten "a small percentage of the sales", there won't be enough profit left to justify releasing the show on DVD in the first place. This is exactly the problem they're facing with mechanical royalties.

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There have been countless numbers on this show that I've enjoyed, mostly due to the dancing and not the music itself. However, we have bought some CDs based upon the music used by the show that we never, ever in a million years would have without it. That's money that wouldn't be gained otherwise.

Yes, you've bought the CDs after hearing the music on the broadcast. That's why they sold the air rights (through a performance royalty) to the music. Releasing the music on DVD would not get anyone to buy the CDs since nearly everyone buying or renting the DVDs would have already heard the music when the show aired. Thus there is nothing to be gained from the artist or record company perspective by offering a reduced royalty rate.

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post #106 of 840 Old 06-06-2011, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Well, here's where I disagree with corporate thinking. If a show like SYTYCD wants to put out a DVD in which my music is used, then pay me a small percentage of the sales. There have been countless numbers on this show that I've enjoyed, mostly due to the dancing and not the music itself. However, we have bought some CDs based upon the music used by the show that we never, ever in a million years would have without it. That's money that wouldn't be gained otherwise.

This is distinctly different than a movie, wherein they might produce a seperate soundtrack only. It's not like I'm going to pop the SYTYCD DVD into the player just because I want to hear one song. Besides, with all the pirating today, I'd rather gain some small amount of cash by lending out my tunes to a show like this than none at all.

I second Spyder's thinking and disagree with Scowl (at least from a logical perspective). It should be possible to work out deals where every performer/writer gets SOME royalty -- even if it's only a very small percentage of whatever the DVD/BD brings in -- yet still leaving enough over for Dick Clark Productions, et al, to make at least SOME profit, as well. By ASCAP, etc., INSISTING on certain fixed percentages for writers and performers, regardless of circumstances, they are, in effect, "cutting off noses to spite faces" in circumstances such as these.

I can easily imagine people who may not have even watched the show on Fox buying a DVD or BD because it catches their interest in a store and subsequently buying a CD (or track) by one or more of the musical artists whose music they hear on the video based on it. I can FURTHERMORE imagine REGULAR FANS who aren't QUICK ENOUGH to catch who the artists is/are during the regular performances but MIGHT be interested in making such purchases if they had liner notes, etc., from which to refer, doing the same.

So I don't see ANY logic in this, other than ASCAP and/or BMI being entirely antithetical to their own members' needs. MANY of us would have never even HEARD of some of these artists had it not been for SYTYCD! It's simple INSANITY!
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post #107 of 840 Old 06-06-2011, 12:47 PM
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.... It should be possible to work out deals where every performer/writer gets SOME royalty -- even if it's only a very small percentage of whatever the DVD/BD brings in -- yet still leaving enough over for Dick Clark Productions, et al, to make at least SOME profit, as well. ...
Jeff
If you asked the content providers, I think they'd say that the film and record industry has a very long history of making certain that every production makes as little "profit" as possible by grossly overpaying sweetheart companies for services which then give them under-the-table kickbacks. Thus screwing anyone that is naive enough to agree to a percentage based deal.

Personally, I have a hard time criticizing any muscian demanding non-percentage based royalties when dealing with fat cats like Dick Clark Productions and especially when dealing with companies that have a reputation for screwing people out of royalties. It's a sad situation, but the production companies have no one to blame but themselves for it.
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post #108 of 840 Old 06-06-2011, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

If you asked the content providers, I think they'd say that the film and record industry has a very long history of making certain that every production makes as little "profit" as possible by grossly overpaying sweetheart companies for services which then give them under-the-table kickbacks. Thus screwing anyone that is naive enough to agree to a percentage based deal.

Personally, I have a hard time criticizing any muscian demanding non-percentage based royalties when dealing with fat cats like Dick Clark Productions and especially when dealing with companies that have a reputation for screwing people out of royalties. It's a sad situation, but the production companies have no one to blame but themselves for it.

Sadly, I'm familiar with such stories... I've seen a movie or two, along the way, about this sort of thing -- primarily in the movie business... Movies where someone was promised a huge percentage of, say, NET profits, and the "fatcats" MADE SURE "NET" profits came to ZERO or even a NEGATIVE number, even though GROSS profits may have been THROUGH THE ROOF.

There could still be ways around that sort of thing, however. ASCAP/BMI, et al, could set up some sort of ombudsman that ensures EVERYONE gets a "fair share" of the GROSS PROFITS based on whatever deals are worked out, and the only way nobody would get paid would be if there weren't enough sales to cover the actual costs of PRODUCING the DVD/BDs, themselves. THOSE costs (editing "best of" clips together -- no sense to show every dance from every season, probably, producing a master, pressing, packaging, delivery to Amazon, Best Buy, etc.) can EASILY be monitored and accounted for.

I just either see no DESIRE on the part of DC Productions, et al to do this, or else they've "run the numbers" and don't think they would ever sell enough to make it a worthwhile venture (i.e. if they DID work out a "fair share" deal with all the composers/performers/labels and could still price the discs at a normal DVD/BD price, they'd never really sell enough to make any REAL money).

Most of US obviously disagree, but then LOOK where we are, lol -- and LOOK at how FEW of us there are in here in any given season (of course there are many other SYTYCD forums online, including on at FOX.com -- talk about rabid, CRAZY teen fans! I was THERE near the end of Season 4, before I found THIS forum -- ACK!!!).

Even on the tour they made changes in just a couple years I found depressing and disturbing. Season 4 tour -- they had an 8x10 for EVERY SINGLE dancer on the tour -- even the ALTERNATES I didn't know would BE there, like Chelsie Trail... Season 7? Only the Final 3 had 8x10 photos -- other than that, there was a "group" photo. And by the time I got up to the table, the only 8x10s left were of Robert, I think (well, I DID wait until AFTER the show -- wait's TOO LONG before and during intermission). But considering there WAS NO TOUR for Season 6, I felt it was downright disgraceful they didn't AT LEAST have pics of Russell and Kathryn to go with the Top 3 from Season 7!

Who knows? Maybe things were different in other cities. I can speak only for Charlotte. Also, as to DVD/BD, it's POSSIBLE that after enough seasons have passed and there's enough material -- and enough of it with artists/composers/labels who aren't too GREEDY -- that they MAY compile some sort of DVD/BD with "Best Ofs" that maybe aren't ALL "the best," but are all "the best" they could afford to put on video, lol.

Or maybe Dick Clark will finally FREEZE OUTRIGHT on New Year's Eve (anyone listen to him TALK the last couple of New Year's Eve's??? Sounds like he's gonna freeze up any moment... Man needed to know when to BOW OUT -- that stroke hit him HARD!). Anyway, maybe when Dick Clark Productions comes under new management/ownership some things will change (although I'm certainly not holding my breath for that, either).

Or, perhaps some of the folks like us who really enjoy the show, but have no scruples, will actually start making PIRATE videos from recordings they've made from TV and sell ENOUGH of them to both become A THREAT to DC Productions/Fox AND prove to them there IS a viable market for such a thing? I'm not encouraging such an illegal action, and anyone who does it should go to jail. But if it happens, and the end result is high-quality videos the rest of us can buy, that might be a good thing.
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post #109 of 840 Old 06-07-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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All right. Let's assume that DC Productions makes a DVD/BD release of all the SYTYCD shows that have ever aired. Let's also assume that after paying royalties, manufacturing, and other costs, that they essentially break even. What do they gain by doing such a thing?

Nothing, in the immediate. However, in the long-term, they likely gain at least some viewership. I know that if I had physical media of this show that I would lend it out to everyone I knew. (I've had lots of discussions with others and coverted many over to watching just by referring them to a YouTube video that makes a brief appearance.) If every current viewer lent the DVD/BD out to one person that starts watching the show, viewership doubles. That's money in the bank.

Unfortunately, execs have incredibly narrow and short vision. If there's no immediate payoff, forget it.
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post #110 of 840 Old 06-07-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

I second Spyder's thinking and disagree with Scowl (at least from a logical perspective). It should be possible to work out deals where every performer/writer gets SOME royalty -- even if it's only a very small percentage of whatever the DVD/BD brings in -- yet still leaving enough over for Dick Clark Productions, et al, to make at least SOME profit, as well. By ASCAP, etc., INSISTING on certain fixed percentages for writers and performers, regardless of circumstances, they are, in effect, "cutting off noses to spite faces" in circumstances such as these.

Sure it's possible to work out deals like this but only if it's worth it to both parties. I'm sure DCP has worked out the numbers, determined how few units they'd probably sell, determined what price they'd have to sell it at (very low!), subtracted the mechanicals and correctly determined there wouldn't be enough profit left over to justify the project. DVD releases with small markets have to remove music they had the performance rights to for the broadcast (like Friday Night Lights) just to make a small profit. SYTYCD is wall to wall music so that's simply not possible.

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So I don't see ANY logic in this, other than ASCAP and/or BMI being entirely antithetical to their own members' needs. MANY of us would have never even HEARD of some of these artists had it not been for SYTYCD! It's simple INSANITY!
Jeff

And you keep saying exactly why the artists don't care if this show is released on DVD. You heard of them from the broadcasts! A DVD release does nothing more to promote these artists. Nothing!

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post #111 of 840 Old 06-07-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

All right. Let's assume that DC Productions makes a DVD/BD release of all the SYTYCD shows that have ever aired. Let's also assume that after paying royalties, manufacturing, and other costs, that they essentially break even. What do they gain by doing such a thing?

It's not possible to know if they would break even. There is always risk involved. They could make a decent profit from the release or it could be a huge loss that's never recovered.

The problem with mechanical royalties is that once you produce a unit, you pay it whether or not you sell the unit. You can't destroy it and get your money back. DVD releases require manufacturing a large number of units so there's a large up-front expense. Mechanicals make this expense even greater which increases the risk. That's why releases like Friday Night Lights decrease their up-front expenses by removing most music that would require a mechanical royalty.

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Nothing, in the immediate. However, in the long-term, they likely gain at least some viewership. I know that if I had physical media of this show that I would lend it out to everyone I knew.

Not everyone you know would be interested in your generosity. If they have no interest watching the show as it's being broadcast for free right now, why would they have any interest in borrowing your DVD? And if they did, why wouldn't they just rent it from Netflix?

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Unfortunately, execs have incredibly narrow and short vision. If there's no immediate payoff, forget it.

No, they understand risk. Immediate expenses for theoretical but unlikely profits is not easy to justify. They're not losing anything by not releasing anything on DVD. There's a good reason why SYTYCD was moved back to the summer.

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post #112 of 840 Old 06-07-2011, 01:11 PM
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I finally remembered to post this cap of Kathryn at the LA auditions.


LL
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post #113 of 840 Old 06-07-2011, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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It's not possible to know if they would break even. There is always risk involved. They could make a decent profit from the release or it could be a huge loss that's never recovered.

The problem with mechanical royalties is that once you produce a unit, you pay it whether or not you sell the unit. You can't destroy it and get your money back. DVD releases require manufacturing a large number of units so there's a large up-front expense. Mechanicals make this expense even greater which increases the risk. That's why releases like Friday Night Lights decrease their up-front expenses by removing most music that would require a mechanical royalty.

OK, Scowl, you talk like you REALLY know what you're talking about, so I'm taking your word for all of this. I've only DRIVEN through California -- only once -- and didn't even GET to L.A. (Monterrey was about as close -- then across the state to Barstow and I-40). All of what I know about the business I've read in magazines and maybe a book or two, and/or seen on TV and in movies, which may or may not be true-to-life depictions, depending on the material.

All that said, IF "mechanical royalities" ALWAYS have to be paid "per-unit" at PRODUCTION, that's a very SAD way to do things. As I stated in an earlier post, I see NO reason some OTHER type of deal involving GROSS RECEIPTS or GROSS PROFITS couldn't be worked out, and any DVDs/BDs that didn't eventually sell could be destroyed, put in storage, or whatever, but with NO royalties paid until they were sold, which is only fair.

I can tell you FIRST HAND that after attending TWO different SYTYCD Tour events (Season 4 and Season 7), that the LINES at the Souvenir tables are IMMENSE... Seven, eight or more lines going back at least a dozen people for up to an hour before the show, during ALL of intermission, and AFTER the show basically until they RUN OUT of almost everything worth having -- and THIS is in Charlotte, NC, where the auditorium holds only maybe 5-7,000 people (and is pretty close to SOLD OUT). I can imagine in bigger cities, like Philly and NYC, its a MUCH BIGGER Souvenir madhouse. My imagination EASILY tells me that if DVDs/BDs were sold ONLY on tours they'd make enough to justify their production. They charge $25 for a program book on those tours that's only about 20 pages or so thick... has one page for each dancer, AND includes ADS. And while I wasn't crazy enough to buy one this last time (did the first time) I saw them selling like HOTCAKES -- along with all KINDS of other ridiculous stuff (little hats, tiaras -- you name it, with the SYTYCD logo on them) at BIG prices!

No, I think there MUST be more at work here than JUST the cost of the music rights. I feel the sticking point HAS TO BE GREED on the DC Production side of things. Greed and perhaps the need for TOTAL CONTROL. Perhaps UNLESS they can be guaranteed a certain percentage of the gross they simply won't do ANY project, regardless, which is sad -- especially for both fans and the dancers who worked so hard. And it's hurting the musical artists, as well. While I'm certain few, if any of the music LABELS would be willing to acquiesce, I suspect some of the lesser-known ARTISTS and COMPOSERS would be willing to take royalties next to NOTHING just for the added exposure.
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post #114 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

All that said, IF "mechanical royalities" ALWAYS have to be paid "per-unit" at PRODUCTION, that's a very SAD way to do things.

Not if you're the one receiving the royalties! Mechanicals have always been the most reliable way to determine royalties. Since units are often produced by third parties (and in the past always were -- all record companies used independent pressers) it's easy for the publisher to know exactly how many units were produced and what compensation they were entitled. If you rely on sales, then you have the record company "forgetting" about sales or "accidentally" stating the wrong number of units.

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I can tell you FIRST HAND that after attending TWO different SYTYCD Tour events (Season 4 and Season 7), that the LINES at the Souvenir tables are IMMENSE... Seven, eight or more lines going back at least a dozen people for up to an hour before the show, during ALL of intermission, and AFTER the show basically until they RUN OUT of almost everything worth having -- and THIS is in Charlotte, NC, where the auditorium holds only maybe 5-7,000 people (and is pretty close to SOLD OUT).

I've been to two myself. Remember, at the tour shows this is a small percentage of the show's most rabid fans buying stuff at the one live show they'll see, so naturally you would expect to see long lines. What else would you expect? This is no indiction that millions of people who casually watch the show would buy DVDs.

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No, I think there MUST be more at work here than JUST the cost of the music rights. I feel the sticking point HAS TO BE GREED on the DC Production side of things. Greed and perhaps the need for TOTAL CONTROL.

So you're saying that DC will make tons and tons of money releasing the show on DVD but they won't... because of, uh, "greed". Do you see the contradiction here?

And what's wrong with "total control"? It's their show and they should have total control over it.

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While I'm certain few, if any of the music LABELS would be willing to acquiesce, I suspect some of the lesser-known ARTISTS and COMPOSERS would be willing to take royalties next to NOTHING just for the added exposure.
Jeff

As I explained before, DVDs do not provide added exposure. People who would buy the DVDs already have seen the show, heard the songs, seen the artist and title on their screens, and bought all the music from the show they're going to buy. The artists and labels would just get a small amount of additional royalties.

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post #115 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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scowl,

I can easily see where you're coming from. My issue stems in the fact that SYTYCD isn't making physical media for us because the royalties for the music would be too great. It's my opinion that the show should be able to buy those rights to put the music not only on air and on tour, but on a DVD/BD as well, all in one set payment. As I said before, if Dick Clark Productions decided to put out a soundtrack only from the music "featured" on the show that would be entirely another story, as people would be making a purchase based upon the music as opposed to the visual content. Nobody is going to buy (or even play) a SYTYCD DVD or BD disc just to hear a few random songs.

I understand the unfortunate reality of the situation, but it doesn't negate the hopes or logic of wishing things were different.
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post #116 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

... if Dick Clark Productions decided to put out a soundtrack only from the music "featured" on the show ...

Ironically, my understanding of the current situation is that it the royalties would actually be cheaper for a "soundtrack" disc than for a disc of the actual routines because royalties for "derivative works" such as adding dancing to a song are traditionally charged higher royalties than for just playing the song.

Baz Luhrmann had some interesting comments about obtaining rights to music for his film Strictly Ballroom. He said he blew his entire music budget of IIRC $50K (aussie dollars I assume) just to get the rights to Doris Day's performance of Perhaps, Perhaps, Perhaps.

That was almost 20 years ago for a performance that everyone except Baz had forgotten about for use in a dinky little Aussie Indie film with a very low number of projected viewers. I can't imagine what it costs for a hot current song like using Timberlake's Love and Sex and Magic a couple of seasons ago.
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post #117 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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That's just a SAD, sad state of affairs, Mac.

I wonder if rights are less expensive for modern artists who are lesser known/smaller and/or emerging stars and/or on indie labels? Then there's also music that's passed its copyright date and is in the public domain. I'm not sure how long that is for OLDER music. Current copyright law, as revised around 1970, gives the original artist a copyright of 75 years with a 50-year renewal to him or her or his or her heirs... I'm not sure what it was prior to that, or if that's retroactive to prior artists and recordings.

Seventy-five years would put something such as Gershwin's WONDERFUL "Rhapsody in Blue" PAST its expiration date, unless it was renewed -- and if there were no renewal for it OR its original recording with (Oh, heck, I can't think of the conductor and orchestra, although I know him -- cheesy dude, 1924), then something like THAT could be used, but the quality, even remastered, would be poor. And of course if it's a remastered release, then whatever label it's on has a NEW copyright.

And SYTYCD uses SO LITTLE classical music and/or traditional jazz and other pieces that may be IN the public doman the issue is likely MOOT, anyway.

As for paying royalties BY THE UNIT, Scowl, I KNOW FOR A FACT that at least during the days of VINYL recordings, records that DID NOT SELL were eventually sent BACK to the manufacturer, the labels scraped off, and the vinyl melted down again and used to press NEW records, Such records were commonly known by those of us who knew of this process as the result of REGRIND, and could sometimes have POOR quality due to things like little pieces of paper being in the grooves. In the late 70s I was just really learning/getting into classical music, and one of the BIG classical labels was RCA Red Seal. I SWORE THEM OFF and simultaneously wrote them a SCATHING letter after taking back about my fifth album to the record store for a refund. They were NOTORIOUS for using REGRIND for ALL their records. Didn't really matter with most rock and pop, where there was seldom a soft spot below, say, metzo-forte, if that... But when you're listening to classical, with LOTS of pianos and pianissimos -- and even pianississimos -- the SNAP, CRACKLE AND POP! on their records was ATTROCIOUS -- especially if you had the sound really turned up to get the full depth and breadth of a big symphonic work -- it was like having a bowl full of Rice Crispies right next to your ear.

To this day, when some folks bemoan how "digital music" has "ruined" music -- taken away all its subtleties -- all I can think about is the 90db+ S/N ratio and total elimination of snap, crackle pop -- a trade-off I'll take ANY DAY (on CDs -- no low-quality, compressed MP3s for THIS audiophile!)

Anyway, my POINT was that I will bet you EVERYTHING I OWN that the record companies counted EVERY SINGLE RECORD they brought back, delabled, ground up and melted down to make new records. And I'll also bet you what little I own that no composer or performer got ONE CENT of royalty for ANY of those records -- and if they'd already been PAID a royalty for them, it was CHARGED BACK.

Come on. BET ME! I DARE YA!
Jeff

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post #118 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 01:02 PM
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If you guys think you can just wave a magic wand and get royalties straightened out, you are sadly mistaken.

I was involved in digital music distribution company and getting rights and paying out royalties is a complext beast where there are literally hands sticking out waiting for their payment at every turn.

This stuff is not easy to produce.
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post #119 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 01:10 PM
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The music royalty issues aside, I wonder how much of an undertaking a "best of" SYTYCD would be production-wise. There have been so many great performances over the years, how do you pick? When they put together that Top 15 special either last year or in 2009 (I forget which), many terrific numbers were left out. As an example, I was surprised when Lacy and Neil's Time number didn't make the cut in the special. Do you select pieces based on their technical merit, their emotional wallop, both and where is the line drawn? How many numbers do you include and on how many standard and, hopefully, Blu-ray DVDs? Does Nigel do a lead-in for every selection and do you include the judges' reactions to certain numbers? What kind of sales could you anticpate beyond the show's hardcore fans? I'm sure that there are many more things to consider but my feeling is that this project might be more difficult than it looks on first glance.
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post #120 of 840 Old 06-08-2011, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh I don't doubt that in the least, gameboy. I think we've gone far enough off topic on this, anyway. I just continue think it's a sad state of affairs that keeps videos from being produced because of royalties and rights snafus. But if we keep going down this rabbit hole, I suspect a moderator is going to jump in it with us.
Jeff

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