'So You Think You Can Dance' Season Eight - FOX HD - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post
Sure they are. That's what all those interviews by Cat and all the talking after the dance are about.
Yeah... Why do ya think they let "Sex" audition so many times??? They were actually, secretly screen testing him for a new potential Fox reality series: "Weirdos of the World." But he was just TOOOO strange!

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post #182 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post
Looking forward to seeing where things fall into place tonight... With internet voting added to texting and phone voting, it's even more of a "crap shoot" than ever which three couples end up with the lowest total number of votes... Any guesses?
Jeff
I'm curious to see if internet voting will affect anything. I usually don't vote, but thought I would try it on the internet. Having to enter a Captcha-like phrase before every vote (and having it not accept several inspite of me seemingly typing it correctly) really turned me off. If I were going to vote, I'd stick with phone.

My guess will be: girl without a partner, the latin/jive, and the second hip-hop for the bottom 3.
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post #183 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 01:03 PM
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...Latin (that's what they called it, I would have said Jive otherwise)....
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I was bit curious about calling the routine by Miranda and Wooo-Man "latin". It looked more like a flat out jive to me.
For some reason Jive is one of the five competitive International Latin Dances (the others are Cha-cha, Rhumba, Samba and Paso Doble). Jive grew out of the Jitterbug, which comes from the US; how it got into the Latin dances, I don't know.

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post #184 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

Hmmmmmmm, perhaps that should have been better explained by the choreographer, then, because neither Nigel nor I "got that." At any rate, that IS what Ryan said she was attempting to convey, but it still didn't come across "quite right" to me... I think the smiles should have, perhaps, faded more quickly, or something.
Jeff

To be honest, even having the understanding I put forth, her broad smile (especially as she took position) did seem somewhat unnerving, as if there might be too many emotional textures for such a limited vignette.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Ryan mischaracterized the intent when she intimated that her role (the character she was portraying), had an active interest in the male's private fantasy -- she said something to the effect that "she was happy now within herself" (after the relationship had ended) -- this was confusing, because as I understood it, the memory of her was what the male partner was interacting with, not any part of the newly reconstituted person she had become post-relationship. I do think her explanation was an unintended mischaracterization attributable to nervous overelaboration, not that she misunderstood the choreographer's intent.
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post #185 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 05:15 PM
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Couldn't watch live so I didn't vote this week, but what an amazing first episode. I knew before they went over to the judges that Travis' "stone" routine would be one of "those" dances this season. Everything just comes together so beautifully. The quickstep was also amazing. And though it has been pondered and debated, I just don't see why they keep up the pretense of randomly picking partners or styles. How many got their own style last night? And then the world champ and a tap dancer--who is already naturally good with quick feet--get quickstep? Come on! They wanted to see what they could do. At least it didn't disappoint. But it walks a fine line of impartiality if they ARE ensuring partners get certain styles.

Still not feeling connected to many of them, but the routines really spoke for themselves tonight. Glad Nigel gave a warning to wooman about being annoying. Love the new stage.
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post #186 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

For some reason Jive is one of the five competitive International Latin Dances (the others are Cha-cha, Rhumba, Samba and Paso Doble). Jive grew out of the Jitterbug, which comes from the US; how it got into the Latin dances, I don't know.

Thanks for the information, Michael! I didn't know that.
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post #187 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 06:07 PM
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I guess Nigel forgot they did this before. I'm okay with it, because as I said, haven't connected with the dancers yet. But every single solo was amazing. Seems like he'd already decided to keep everyone so not sure the point of the re-dance. I just can't help but think this negatively affects the competitors. If the same person show up in the bottom 3, then you have a clear answer of who should go. But fair to the others? Hard to say...
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post #188 of 840 Old 06-16-2011, 10:02 PM
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Yeah--it'll really kind of suck if four people who were safe this week get eliminated next week, since two of them would have been safe had they eliminated a boy and a girl from the bottom this week. (Hard to say but you know what I mean ).

I'm glad Clarice isn't going away--she is so nice to look at . They were praising Jess so highly after their Broadway number and I'm thinkin', "Was he up there with her?"

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post #189 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 02:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, my suspicions about the difficulty of judging this season WERE confirmed last night, but what that does to the Bottom 3 selection NEXT WEEK is simply ATTROCIOUS, and frankly I think it was at least a bit of a "cop out" on Nigel's part...

My guess is that the male and female dancers he WANTED eliminated first DIDN'T end up in the Bottom 3 this week, and none of those who did were even CLOSE to ones he wanted eliminated this early on, so he decided to "give a reprieve" and see how much difference a week can make in the audience voting...

Frankly, if they're going to take that sort of approach there's no reason they couldn't just "fudge" what the audience vote results are, as I doubt there's any "Price-Waterhouse" keeping official score on the votes, so to speak... OR, they COULD switch to a scoring system similar to what "Dancing With The Stars" uses, where audience votes count a certain percentage, and judges' votes count for the rest... If they did things THAT way, they could always "adjust" THEIR totals to get who they want in The Bottom Three. I mean, as we've already deduced from the dance "picks," there seems to be at least A LITTLE "fix" going on here, anyway.

The trick will be NEXT WEEK, as there's NO WAY they can pull off giving Iveta, for instance, another dance in her exact style -- or Jess another Broadway number (and he ended up in the Bottom 3 even WITH one). But it's possible that Iveta, for instance, will excel in other styles, and that other "favorites" will stumble, even in their OWN styles. I have NO issue with giving the ENTIRE AUDIENCE another week to see ALL 20 dancers and another chance to vote for who are the Best 7 couples. I'm just not sure I like the idea that 2 of the 3 couples in the Bottom 3 are automatically GONNERS!

Oh well, should make for another interesting week, to say the least.
Jeff

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post #190 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 05:22 AM
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Jeff - they do have an independant audirtor for dealing with the votes. Rigging a "game show" is a no-no.

That said, I agree with your rationale. Although it could be a similar case to when thye kept an injured dancer last time. To my mind, at least, Roberts solo was far and away the poorest of the guys, but is it fair to eliminate him over someone who didn't even dance the night before? Plus, that would have meant getting rid of a girl that he didn't necessarily want to axe yet.

As for the expressed surprise by the judges about hte bottom 3 - what di dhtey expect? Everyone was at least good on Wednesday and someone had to get the fewest votes. Sure, Jess danced the broadway well, but he annoys the heck out of me already with only 5 minutes of screen time so if I'm voting I'm going to give it to the one of the other guys.
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post #191 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 05:55 AM
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Love the new stage.

I agree. However I'm not crazy about the "interrogation room lighting", with the camera at stage level and light "spraying down" from the sky.

The light from above is bleeding into the camera lens, giving a foggy, cloudy, misty effect... very artsy special-effects, like an old fashioned black-and-white movie.

The contrast in the crystal clear beautifully lit stage (especially the colored panels behind the stage when they turn orange) from camera angles on-high where there is no overhead light shining into the lens is huge.

The high camera shots are absolutely stunning HD. The stage level shots look like there is a Kleenex/vaseline filter over the lens because that overhead light is just shining right into the lens... in "rays".

At first, I thought it was because I was watching on my real HDTV, via TWC/LA channel 411, which I know is recompressed (along with all the other local OTA networks carried by TWC/LA). However I double-checked with the OTA recording from channel 11.1, and for some reason there's virtually no difference in bitrate with 411. Both are in the 13.5-14Mbps range. Very surprising, actually, as this is contrary to my measurements a few months back with KCBS-DT, KABC-DT and KNBC-DT So it's not a recompression softening that's responsible for what I see... it's definitely the overhead down-lighting and the stage-level camera angle, looking up into the light.

Then, I watched it on my computer's HD monitor, and it was just as "foggy" as it was on my real HDTV. So it's truly in the image, again not 411 vs. 11.1.

Really, those occasional flying camera angles from high overhead are just stunning... showing a crystal clear stage with gorgeous color and costumes. Cut to the stage camera, and it looks like a different show.

Even the skin color of the judges and Cat looks a bit off... more reddish than true flesh-tone, for some reason. Again, lighting, in my opinion.


That's just my own observation and opinion.

I hope they're still experimenting, and when they watch it back this week they'll make some lighting adjustments as the season progresses.


I still can't believe Nick and Iveta's quickstep routine. WOW! Nick... where did you come from???

And I especially liked Sonya's group number. Terrific! Everybody clomping around in her trademark monster steps and postures, with the cane props... great! Kind of like 20 Courtney Galiano's, but doing it very very fast.
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post #192 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
I agree. However I'm not crazy about the "interrogation room lighting", with the camera at stage level and light "spraying down" from the sky.

The light from above is bleeding into the camera lens, giving a foggy, cloudy, misty effect... very artsy special-effects, like an old fashioned black-and-white movie.

The contrast in the crystal clear beautifully lit stage (especially the colored panels behind the stage when they turn orange) from camera angles on-high where there is no overhead light shining into the lens is huge.

The high camera shots are absolutely stunning HD. The stage level shots look like there is a Kleenex/vaseline filter over the lens because that overhead light is just shining right into the lens... in "rays".

At first, I thought it was because I was watching on my real HDTV, via TWC/LA channel 411, which I know is recompressed (along with all the other local OTA networks carried by TWC/LA). However I double-checked with the OTA recording from channel 11.1, and for some reason there's virtually no difference in bitrate with 411. Both are in the 13.5-14Mbps range. Very surprising, actually, as this is contrary to my measurements a few months back with KCBS-DT, KABC-DT and KNBC-DT So it's not a recompression softening that's responsible for what I see... it's definitely the overhead down-lighting and the stage-level camera angle, looking up into the light.

Then, I watched it on my computer's HD monitor, and it was just as "foggy" as it was on my real HDTV. So it's truly in the image, again not 411 vs. 11.1.

Really, those occasional flying camera angles from high overhead are just stunning... showing a crystal clear stage with gorgeous color and costumes. Cut to the stage camera, and it looks like a different show.

Even the skin color of the judges and Cat looks a bit off... more reddish than true flesh-tone, for some reason. Again, lighting, in my opinion.


That's just my own observation and opinion.

I hope they're still experimenting, and when they watch it back this week they'll make some lighting adjustments as the season progresses.
I saw the same issues on the Fox station out of San Francisco via Comcast. Some camera shots show Cat or the dancers in very bright, vibrant relief while others looked flat and hazy. I have a relatively new Plasma set and they tend not to be as natively bright as LCDs so for laughs I rolled out my older LCD set and hooked it to the DVR via Component cables (plasma is on HDMI) and then ran both sets side by side. The LCD was "brighter" but the same basic PQ issues appeared on both sets so yes, their lighting director needs to make some adjustments.
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post #193 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 08:21 AM
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Why do these types of shows never allow you to vote someone off, instead of using votes to keep someone on the show? IMO, it would be more clear cut who goes....the person with the most votes. A negative voting system if you will.

That broadway kid is so overly annoying that it should have been a no brainer to send him home. Conversely, I didn't want any of the girls sent home so it was good to give another week.
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post #194 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 08:39 AM
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I wish they'd go for added judge score system like DWTS so the judges can be upfront about their preferences and not have to do these not so subtle manipulations.
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post #195 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 08:52 AM
 
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Well, I guess I'm going to stir the pot a bit, since I don't think this is anywhere near "the best collection of dancers the world has ever seen," as has been repeatedly spewed from the mouths of the judges so far. I've been incredibly underwhelmed by the solos to date, particularly last night's show where performers were supposedly "dancing for their lives."

I have been mostly impressed by the choreography so far, however. Travis, Sonja, and the guy from The League of Extraordinary Dancers (I forget his name, sorry) have absolutely produced this season. I think Sonja will prove to be the best this year, as she's always consistently pushing the dancers and herself. In contrast, Tyce's number was one of the weakest we've seen in all 8 seasons, particularly given that Jess was in his own style.

It's much to early to be certain, but I'm just not seeing this group (guys AND girls) to be better than any other to date.
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post #196 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 08:59 AM
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I'm curious to see if internet voting will affect anything.
It didn't!

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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post #197 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 11:15 AM
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Any chance that one of the pro dancers from DWTS (other than Louis) show up as choreographers? Love to see bad boy Maksim going ballistic on these kids, even if it's just a little bit (give 'em a taste of real world egos and histrionics).
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post #198 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 11:32 AM
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Well, I guess I'm going to stir the pot a bit, since I don't think this is anywhere near "the best collection of dancers the world has ever seen," as has been repeatedly spewed from the mouths of the judges so far. I've been incredibly underwhelmed by the solos to date, particularly last night's show where performers were supposedly "dancing for their lives."

I have been mostly impressed by the choreography so far, however. Travis, Sonja, and the guy from The League of Extraordinary Dancers (I forget his name, sorry) have absolutely produced this season. I think Sonja will prove to be the best this year, as she's always consistently pushing the dancers and herself. In contrast, Tyce's number was one of the weakest we've seen in all 8 seasons, particularly given that Jess was in his own style.

It's much to early to be certain, but I'm just not seeing this group (guys AND girls) to be better than any other to date.

i appreciate the judges' enthusiasm but I do wish they'd temper their remarks. For one, it makes it even harder for the viewers at home to assess the performances when there are no glaringly weak ones, so you end up voting by personality and the strength of the choreography.

I can't tell either if this group is overall stronger than any other. I don't have any real early favorite. Maybe Melanie and Marko (ok, they're a cute couple and the routine was fantastic. See what I mean?)

I think they need to pick more quirky dancers, esp among the women, even if they're not necessarily versatile or strong dancers. It creates variety, contrast, and rooting interests for viewers.
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post #199 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 11:54 AM
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I can't tell either if this group is overall stronger than any other. I don't have any real early favorite. Maybe Melanie and Marko (ok, they're a cute couple and the routine was fantastic. See what I mean?)

I don't care for Melanie. Something strange about her looks which distracts me from her dancing.
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post #200 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 12:34 PM
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I guess Nigel forgot they did this before. I'm okay with it, because as I said, haven't connected with the dancers yet. But every single solo was amazing. Seems like he'd already decided to keep everyone so not sure the point of the re-dance.

Fill up the entire hour?
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post #201 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 12:49 PM
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I don't care for Melanie. Something strange about her looks which distracts me from her dancing.

Her face is unusually square and little matronly plain. Not crazy about the face of Caitlynn either--all smile and no eyes.

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post #202 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 12:55 PM
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I don't care for Melanie. Something strange about her looks which distracts me from her dancing.

Betty Boop?
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post #203 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 01:22 PM
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Her face is unusually square and little matronly plain. Not crazy about the face of Caitlynn either--all smile and no eyes.

Gee thanks for ruining it for me
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post #204 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 02:07 PM
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For some reason Jive is one of the five competitive International Latin Dances (the others are Cha-cha, Rhumba, Samba and Paso Doble). Jive grew out of the Jitterbug, which comes from the US; how it got into the Latin dances, I don't know.

If I understand ballroom history correctly, the reason Jive was placed in with "latin" dances is because in "latin" dances you were allowed to break hold and in "standard" dances you were not allowed to break hold (except for a few bars at the start and end). I think there's been some relaxation of the hold rules for "standard" dances since then.
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post #205 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

Well, my suspicions about the difficulty of judging this season WERE confirmed last night, but what that does to the Bottom 3 selection NEXT WEEK is simply ATTROCIOUS, and frankly I think it was at least a bit of a "cop out" on Nigel's part...

My guess is that the male and female dancers he WANTED eliminated first DIDN'T end up in the Bottom 3 this week, and none of those who did were even CLOSE to ones he wanted eliminated this early on, so he decided to "give a reprieve" and see how much difference a week can make in the audience voting...

That was my take as well.

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...

The trick will be NEXT WEEK, as there's NO WAY they can pull off giving Iveta, for instance, another dance in her exact style -- or Jess another Broadway number (and he ended up in the Bottom 3 even WITH one). But it's possible that Iveta, for instance, will excel in other styles, and that other "favorites" will stumble, even in their OWN styles. I have NO issue with giving the ENTIRE AUDIENCE another week to see ALL 20 dancers and another chance to vote for who are the Best 7 couples. I'm just not sure I like the idea that 2 of the 3 couples in the Bottom 3 are automatically GONNERS!

Oh well, should make for another interesting week, to say the least.
Jeff

Perhaps this is a chance for them to learn from DWTS mistakes. DWTS originally only had the couples dance a single dance and then had an elimination the first week. This meant that some people got to do flashy latin dances and others got stuck with the waltz and if someone was better at latin vs standard or vice versa then the audience never saw them in their best style. So after a lot of audience complaints DWTS quickly switched and has stuck to a format where everyone dances one standard and one latin before anyone gets eliminated. This lets the audience get a better idea of who they really want to vote for.

I think this would also work for SYTYCD. For the first night let's see all the dancers dance in their own style. On the second night have everyone dance out of style. Total up the votes and have a third night results night that week (hey it's summer there's nothing else on but reruns anyway just bump one those reruns off the air). Then go back to the one dance a week format after that.
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post #206 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 02:52 PM
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Perhaps this is a chance for them to learn from DWTS mistakes. DWTS originally only had the couples dance a single dance and then had an elimination the first week. This meant that some people got to do flashy latin dances and others got stuck with the waltz and if someone was better at latin vs standard or vice versa then the audience never saw them in their best style. So after a lot of audience complaints DWTS quickly switched and has stuck to a format where everyone dances one standard and one latin before anyone gets eliminated. This lets the audience get a better idea of who they really want to vote for.

I think this would also work for SYTYCD. For the first night let's see all the dancers dance in their own style. On the second night have everyone dance out of style. Total up the votes and have a third night results night that week (hey it's summer there's nothing else on but reruns anyway just bump one those reruns off the air). Then go back to the one dance a week format after that.

One could argue they already did this - the top 20 introduction show featured all the dancers in small groups dancing in their what was more or less their own style - so we've already seen everyone perform a routine in their style, and on Wednesday a routine that may or may not have been in their style with their partner - what you suggest isn't too terribly different from what they already have been doing. It would be a minor tweak- something the show has shown it is willing to do - to do it that way.
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post #207 of 840 Old 06-17-2011, 02:55 PM
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DWTS originally only had the couples dance a single dance and then had an elimination the first week.

My take was the stars didn't want to get voted off after one evening... after putting in all that work there wouldn't be enough upside to offset it! This way they are guaranteed at least two weeks of national attention.

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post #208 of 840 Old 06-18-2011, 10:45 AM
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post #209 of 840 Old 06-18-2011, 10:46 AM
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her face is unusually square and little matronly plain. Not crazy about the face of caitlynn either--all smile and no eyes.

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post #210 of 840 Old 06-18-2011, 02:34 PM
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My take was the stars didn't want to get voted off after one evening... after putting in all that work there wouldn't be enough upside to offset it! This way they are guaranteed at least two weeks of national attention.

Yeah that was another big part of it.

Personally, I don't see why all these shows feel the need to have weekly eliminations. I said this years ago about DWTS and I'll say it again here, if I was running these shows I'd keep everyone in for about four weeks (with cumulative voting each week) then eliminate half the field and then do a weekly elimination for a couple of weeks until the finals.

I think this has the benefit of not eliminating a frontrunner due to one bad week and it's a little easier on egos in the bottom group since they get eliminated as a group instead of being singled out for the walk of shame.
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