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post #541 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 11:23 AM
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In JP several main characters died, like the computer nerd, the blood-sucking lawyer and the hunter.

We all knew that the "birds" would go away and nothing would happen to Swiss Family. The ones who got pecked at the beginning & the jeep casualty were throwaways...hey did they have red shirts or something?

In original Star Trek, the security guys in red were typically the expendable ones. I'll have to look closer at the uniforms, maybe some clues there

Steve
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post #542 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by vfxproducer View Post

If 'some guys getting their eyes pecked out' means 'three armed soldiers ended up dead', then you are correct. And in the last episode, we had that guy in the jeep who was yanked out of his seat and eaten by the Carnosaur. Works for me.

The problem is, I didn't care about those people. One of them was, as you say, "the guy in the jeep".

The scene in JP where the T-Rex attacks the kids set the standard for menacing dinosaurs, followed only by the kitchen scene. The kitchen scene was better overall, but the first time I saw the movie when it came out, that T-Rex iris shrinking down when the flashlight hit it made me go "Whoa! That was awesome!".

The big thing for me was the kids acted like kids: they're in danger of being eaten, yet they do exactly what brothers and sisters always do: they bicker.

TN feels like the Universal Studios ride version of JP, not the movie.
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post #543 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vfxproducer View Post

It's better than 2.5 Men, Mike and Molly, 2 Broke Girls, Gossip Girl, The Sing Off, The Playboy Club, and Dancing With the Stars. Its arguably on par with Hawaii Five-0. That makes it one of the better TV shows on Monday night. It doesn't have to be more than that.

It's hard to argue against that. O_o Of course the argument would be to just turn off the tv, but if you really wanted to watch something TN would be your best bet. Well, until House comes on.
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post #544 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

TN feels like the Universal Studios ride version of JP, not the movie.

Perhaps that was what Speilberg was shooting for.

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post #545 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by vfxproducer View Post

It's better than 2.5 Men, Mike and Molly, 2 Broke Girls, Gossip Girl, The Sing Off, The Playboy Club, and Dancing With the Stars. Its arguably on par with Hawaii Five-0. That makes it one of the better TV shows on Monday night. It doesn't have to be more than that.

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It's hard to argue against that. O_o Of course the argument would be to just turn off the tv, but if you really wanted to watch something TN would be your best bet. Well, until House comes on.

Amen! I simply will not watch sitcoms anymore, even those few that don't have laugh tracks. Reality shows, of course, are even worse than sitcoms. Fortunately, though, these days cable and satellite TV providers give us a gazillion channels, there is an unending stream of Blu-ray movies to watch, so I don't even have to consider watching anything that I am not likely to like a lot. Compared to all of the shows I avoid because I hate their genres, Terra Nova is simply wonderful.
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post #546 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

TN feels like the Universal Studios ride version of JP, not the movie.

That's right. When I was watching this week's Terra Nova, I thought more than once that the headquarters compound seemed more like Disneyland than it did an enclave in a prehistoric jungle.
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post #547 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

That's right. When I was watching this week's Terra Nova, I thought more than once that the headquarters compound seemed more like Disneyland than it did an enclave in a prehistoric jungle.

The central "marketplace" with those shade panels reminded me of some kind of food and gift area like you might see at the San Diego Wild Animal Park!
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post #548 of 1423 Old 10-06-2011, 08:36 PM
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There is always MNF for the next three months instead of this. I will stick around for awhile longer with all of its warts. There is a lot of things that bug me, but there is also something that is keeping me around.

My new favorite game is Save The Titanic

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post #549 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 10:21 AM
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I have recorded the first two episodes but am very much of the fence whether to watch/invest in this. I know I can watch the premiere and maybe will but looking for some input...

Generally, how is it? I liked the first Jurrasic Park well enough (of course I was much younger back then). JP II was ok I guess, and Jurassic Park III was nearly unwatchable - so cheesy and predictable (gymnastics kid doing a gymnast move on a dinosaur - ugh!).

I also didn't care for Avatar. Sure it was pretty, but the story was so bland and generic that I could hardly stay awake for the last half-hour to hour for the action scenes.

Is this the wrong show for me? I generally like slower-burn, grittier dramas, like ones that are on HBO, FX or AMC where characters are flawed and lots of shades of grey vs. the standard black vs white.

I've just been burned from such poor execution of "FlashForward", "V", and "The Event", I don't want to get tricked again.

Thanks in advance...
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post #550 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

That's right. When I was watching this week's Terra Nova, I thought more than once that the headquarters compound seemed more like Disneyland than it did an enclave in a prehistoric jungle.

LOL.
Me too.

The show's "look" reminded me very much of Avatar's (excluding the CGI).
I have to wonder if some of Avatar's props haven't been modified and re-used.
Both are Fox properties....

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post #551 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by djb5f View Post

Is this the wrong show for me? I generally like slower-burn, grittier dramas, like ones that are on HBO, FX or AMC where characters are flawed and lots of shades of grey vs. the standard black vs white.

Let me put it this way:

If Fox believed in truth in labeling, this show would be called When Dinosaurs Attack...
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post #552 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by djb5f View Post

I have recorded the first two episodes but am very much of the fence whether to watch/invest in this. I know I can watch the premiere and maybe will but looking for some input...

Generally, how is it?

First off, I would of watched it before reading this thread. I tend to rely on what I personally feel about a show instead of letting other people influence me. This show isn't for everyone but it may be for you. Watch it and see!
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post #553 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djb5f View Post

Generally, how is it?

if you are looking for another Battlestar Galactica & won't be satisfied with anything else, pass.
It is not gritty realism & characters.

if you liked Jurassic Park I, then you may like it, although the focus is really not on the dinosaurs; it's on a family & family dynamics mixed with action & teen angst. it's definitely Spielbergian family fare

I'd say go ahead & watch the pilot. Then post what you think

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post #554 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djb5f View Post

I have recorded the first two episodes but am very much of the fence whether to watch/invest in this. I know I can watch the premiere and maybe will but looking for some input...

Generally, how is it? I liked the first Jurrasic Park well enough (of course I was much younger back then). JP II was ok I guess, and Jurassic Park III was nearly unwatchable - so cheesy and predictable (gymnastics kid doing a gymnast move on a dinosaur - ugh!).

I also didn't care for Avatar. Sure it was pretty, but the story was so bland and generic that I could hardly stay awake for the last half-hour to hour for the action scenes.

Is this the wrong show for me? I generally like slower-burn, grittier dramas, like ones that are on HBO, FX or AMC where characters are flawed and lots of shades of grey vs. the standard black vs white.

I've just been burned from such poor execution of "FlashForward", "V", and "The Event", I don't want to get tricked again.

Thanks in advance...

I guess I don't understand why you just don't watch the show .. ??

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post #555 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 11:09 AM
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^^
good question. I'll give any new SF show a try.

Steve
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post #556 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 11:11 AM
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I read a week of bashing on this thread before I watched the pilot. So I thought, "I'll take a look at this train wreck." Personally, I don't think it is near as bad as a lot of these posts imply. It's not the same caliber as Lost or Fringe, but it's not THAT bad. YMMV
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post #557 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rrainwater View Post

First off, I would of watched it before reading this thread. I tend to rely on what I personally feel about a show instead of letting other people influence me. This show isn't for everyone but it may be for you. Watch it and see!


i haven't really read the thread, i skipped over any specific talk (spoilers) but did scan for generally opinions. but i hear ya.
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post #558 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I guess I don't understand why you just don't watch the show .. ??


b/c i've been burned by the cool premise but poor execution of "FlashForward" (watched 9 epsiodes before cutting bait), "V" (stuck with it for 2 seasons), and "The Event" (dumped after 5 episodes).

I have limited disposible time as we all do and I guess I don't trust myself to make a decision and be able to drop it after 1 show!
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post #559 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 12:03 PM
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Spoiler tags here as a one time courtesy to djb5f; I won’t make a habit of it.

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.. although the focus is really not on the dinosaurs; it's on a family & family dynamics mixed with action & teen angst. it's definitely Spielbergian family fare

I disagree. I think the focus is absolutely on the dinos, and the teen angst and family melodrama are basically cookie-cutter filler to set up the dino battles.

I agree it’s Spielbergian family fare, mainly because the dinos are rigged – just smart enough, just stupid enough, just capable enough, just lame enough – so as to maintain parity with the humans until the last commercial break, at which point the good guys, i.e. the humans, inevitably prevail.

In the pilot, the writers had to get folks outside the fence somehow – because that’s where the dinos are – so they had
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the rebel teen boy chase the pretty girl to the swimming hole.
And in the second episode, they had to give the nocturnal (?!?) bird-o-saurs an opening, so
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the 22nd century all terrain vehicle got a flat tire. I suppose they could have had the kids out on a joy ride with the moon roof open, but they used the kids the week before and they were still grounded. And besides, that would have required kids with red shirts.

Point is, let’s not confuse this with Friday Night Lights. Football is dangerous; a kid gets paralyzed and a whole season of drama flows out of that. But in Terra Nova, the characters are either red shirted and dispatched or the dinos scratch them like cats and all is well the next week.

Mind you, I’m not saying this can’t be an entertaining diversion for an hour every week. But it certainly doesn’t qualify as legitimate science fiction or sophisticated drama. It’s fluff, plain and simple, CGI dinosaurs on a TV budget.

The ratings for the first two weeks are probably enough to keep it around, but not enough to increase or possibly even maintain the current budget, so I wouldn’t expect either the CGI or the scripts to get any better. What you see is what you get.
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post #560 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by djb5f View Post

I guess I don't trust myself to make a decision and be able to drop it after 1 show!

Unless you're exceptionally prone to addiction, you shouldn't have any trouble dropping this show after the first or second episode.

The stories are largely self-contained.

Even the subsequent episode previews at the end are not especially compelling, imo. Next week, for instance, a prehistoric bug gives some main characters amnesia. But unless you find those characters interesting, you're not going to care.
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post #561 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joblo View Post

Mind you, I’m not saying this can’t be an entertaining diversion for an hour every week. But it certainly doesn’t qualify as legitimate science fiction or sophisticated drama. It’s fluff, plain and simple, CGI dinosaurs on a TV budget.

You made good points. From your examples, I'd have to agree with you that the dinos are much more important than I was giving credit for. I wasn't looking at it the same way & now that I think about it, you make a good case.

And I completely agree with your conclusion about it being fluff vs. legit SF. And that's my problem with the show. I freely admit I have negative opinions toward the show due to this but mostly due to the copycat storytelling.

If the writing just had some originality, I'd have a higher opinion, even as fluff But in the 1st 2 episodes, the writers didn't even try...the fact that it's holding on in the ratings says a lot about American viewers.

Steve
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post #562 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 02:19 PM
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TN is 10 times more SciFi than Lost.

You can argue that Lost is Fantasy (where anything and whatever the writer wants to happen happens and a whole season is nothing more than a dream), but it is NOT SciFi.
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post #563 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

TN is 10 times more SciFi than Lost.

You can argue that Lost is Fantasy (where anything and whatever the writer wants to happen happens and a whole season is nothing more than a dream), but it is NOT SciFi.


So I guess the entire season of time travel, teleportation experiments, sonic fence, EM shield, the Valenzetti numbers equation etc. never happened?


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post #564 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

So I guess the entire season of time travel, teleportation experiments, sonic fence, EM shield, the Valenzetti numbers equation etc. never happened?

For it to be SciFi, there has to be SOME semblance of real-world physics. There is no such connection. Lost world could do whatever the writer wanted it to do (a whole island disappearing into time travel? seriously???). A world where anything and everything is possible, is not science based.

It would be like calling the show Ghost Hunters a SciFi because they mention things like force field, electro magnetic measurements, and quantum dimensions.

Lost is a Fantasy, a pretty fantastical fantasy. It is what an English major thinks a SciFi is. But it is not a SciFi.
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post #565 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

For it to be SciFi, there has to be SOME semblance of real-world physics. There is no such connection. Lost world could do whatever the writer wanted it to do (a whole island disappearing into time travel? seriously???)

It would be like calling the show Ghost Hunters a SciFi because they mention things like force field, electro magnetic measurements, and quantum dimensions.

Lost is a Fantasy, a pretty fantastical fantasy. But it is not a SciFi.

And Terra Nova is? There's barely a scientific concept behind Terra Nova. "We found a rip in time. It leads to dinosaurs!"

Popular Mechanics ran a long series about the science of Lost and it's a lot more detailed and plausible than the half-baked Braga sketches at work in Terra Nova's "science" fiction.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...-retrospective
According to physicist Daniel Faraday's plan, the only way to prevent "the incident" from happening is by destroying the pocket of electromagnetic energy that lies underneath the Swan station. We spoke with Dr. Greg Carman, one of the top minds in electromagnetism and a professor at the Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science at UCLA, to find out whether a nuclear explosion could indeed destroy the magnetic field, bringing Faraday's plan to change the past--and the future--to fruition.

As it turns out, Faraday--who has "been right about everything so far," as Miles Straume points out--is right again.
How does your "real-world physics" explain the ridiculous plot holes and poor science at work in Terra Nova? They can't even get bullets that go through flesh and place their entire shaky notion about an alternate timeline on a probe that they couldn't track down after 85 million years and threw away the explanation in a one liner.

Terra Nova makes Lost look like Primer.


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post #566 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 03:29 PM
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Every SciFi has one or more "impossible" concept to get the story rolling. But once those rules are set, everything else has to be grounded in reality. Otherwise, it is no longer science, and Sci part of SciFi goes away.

In TerraNova, that "impossible" concept is the worm hole that leads people to a different time stream 85 million years earlier. Other than bullet-proof dinos, they have followed the real-life physics from that point on. That is a typical SciFi.

In Lost, you first started out with a "smoke monster" that never was really explained (other than as some energy which makes no sense if you watch the first episode again). Then you had dead people coming back which was also never really explained. Then you had some mysterious number sequence that led people OFF THE ISLAND to win a lotto, that was never explained how. Then you had a whole season that was just a dream. Then you had... well you get the idea.

Sure, if you throw thousands of fantastic ideas on the wall, one or two might actually make scientific sense, but that is more due to dumb luck than science. Once you establish the fact that anything and everything can happen, who cares whether or not nuclear bomb can disrupt electro magneticism? They could have just said smoke monster can disrupt electro magneticism or repeating the mysterious number sequence can disrupt EM or etc. and it would have fit the rest of the story line.

When anything and everything is possible, nothing is special.

Lost is a fantasy.
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post #567 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 03:33 PM
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I would argue that most SciFi is fantasy as well .. those so called purists tend to forget it's Science FICTION .. there is no requirement or law of writing that says it must be grounded in fact ...

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post #568 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

When anything and everything is possible, nothing is special.

Lost is a fantasy.

So I guess Star Wars is fantasy too? Since none of that is remotely plausible, anything is possible (lightning hands, telekinesis etc. etc.) and the science is non-existent. We can probably add every Trek to that list too.

Your "real-world physics" argument is ridiculous. If you read any hard SF that is set at extreme points in the future physics are irrelevant, since objects can be manufactured by fictitious machines running on fictitious elements. Try looking up any Culture books by Iain Banks. A society where everything is possible and physics can be bent to whatever purpose they are required to serve.

Braga is the king of bad science-fiction plausibility and your insistence that Terra Nova has "good science" while simultaneously denying that Lost had definite SF elements regardless of the ending, just leads me to believe you don't know anything about the genre at all.


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post #569 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I would argue that most SciFi is fantasy as well .. those so called purists tend to forget it's Science FICTION .. there is no requirement or law of writing that says it must be grounded in fact ...

Well... actually, a grounding in fact and what's reasonably within the realm of scientific possibility is sort of a dictionary definition of science fiction.

Quote:


Science Fiction -- a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.

Not just speculation -- but knowledge and speculation, working together.
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post #570 of 1423 Old 10-07-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

So I guess Star Wars is fantasy too?

Yes, it is, not because of plausibility or possibility, but because it relies on a supernatural power, e.g., the Force, which is a fancy name for "magic."

Star Trek is sci fi not because it's science is always so great (not!) but because its technology is based on extrapolations from current theory. Warp drive wasn't invented by a god or by enchanting an engine -- it's a technology.
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