CBS O&O stations to add subchannels... - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemyM View Post

Unfortunately the new definition of HDTV has become wide-screen.

I can remember the day I got my first HDTV (30" 16:9 Sony CRT) and HD cable box. The first channel that was put on was INHD and I was blown away by how good it looked. I can't remember the last time I was blown away by a great HD picture.

Also, remember how Discovery HD (or maybe it was "Theater") looked in the beginning - and PBS-HD? The nature shows used to give you goosebumps.

What kills me is the way so many newbies to non-Blu-ray HD, who are often coming from some crappy, old analog signal, rave about it as looking "absolutely stunning".

My favorite are the OTA'er's who rave that they're getting a "crystal clear" signal - as if it's great only because there's no snow - not realizing it's all or nothing, and not like analog.

They should have seen DirecTV's standard definition 15 years ago. It looked better than a lot of this so-called, "HD" we're getting now.

Even some of the analog signals I had were better to watch (I've had some pretty strong, clean analog signals in my day - both OTA and cable, with no ghosting or snow whatsoever). Less detail, maybe, and not widescreen, but I had no problem watching it, like I do with of a lot of digital HD and SD sports and action programming nowadays.
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post #32 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebreathe View Post

Thank God the only thing I watch on CBS is the NFL and March Madness. Anyone have any idea what kind of crap they plan on running on these subs?

The CBS channel will be called THAT, in a direct bid to compete with ABC. NBC, not to be outdone, will add the AND THE OTHER THING channel to their sub-channel lineup in coming weeks.
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post #33 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 12:38 PM
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I guess this shouldn't be a surprise since:

A.) Quite a few people using pay TV are only watching SD on their new HDTVs anyway (old STB, refuse to pay extra for HD, etc.)
B.) Of those that are hooked up to HD many can't seem to be able to tell the difference between real HD and upconverted HD(Oh unless it's 4:3 SD and then they want it stretched to 16:9)
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post #34 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 01:33 PM
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I kept hoping this thread was a sick April Fools joke, but I guess not.
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post #35 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 02:37 PM
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Since Kgo has recently Drop Accuweather channel for SD Simulcast of LWHD 7.2 Which is completely pointless. KPIX could at least bring back the Accuweather channel and put on it their sister channel KBCW 44.2
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post #36 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

What kills me is the way so many newbies to non-Blu-ray HD, who are often coming from some crappy, old analog signal, rave about it as looking "absolutely stunning".

Sadly, I'm one of those people as I didn't get a HDTV until December 2009. (I wanted to get a HDTV since 2002.)

Perhaps now I should be glad that the CBS affiliate here (WTSP) carries only one subchannel.

BTW, do people even watch these subchannels? I just think they're pointless.
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post #37 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 09:44 PM
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I watch Create, Cool TV, and ThisTV.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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post #38 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 09:48 PM
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The latest one (here) is AntennaTV; mostly retro stuff from the 70s: All in the Family, Benny Hill, Maude, Sanford and Son, Three's Company, Too Close for Comfort, etc..

"But I didn't do it...!"
"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #39 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

The latest one (here) is AntennaTV; mostly retro stuff from the 70s: All in the Family, Benny Hill, Maude, Sanford and Son, Three's Company, Too Close for Comfort, etc..

Don't forget the best one - The Three Stooges (I was just watching them on there a couple of hours ago).
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post #40 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

I watch Create, Cool TV, and ThisTV.

I watch Create a lot, too. However, I wish it looked better, and I'm really starting to get tired of seeing the same shows over and over and over and over again.
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post #41 of 91 Old 04-01-2011, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siouxmoux View Post

Since Kgo has recently Drop Accuweather channel for SD Simulcast of LWHD 7.2 Which is completely pointless. KPIX could at least bring back the Accuweather channel and put on it their sister channel KBCW 44.2

All ABC O&O stations had a contract...and then, a month ago, lost their collective contract...with Accu-Weather. Local stations in smaller markets still have them.

Gilbert
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post #42 of 91 Old 04-02-2011, 03:25 AM
 
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Good thing Nashville isn't on there. Their CBA station already has 2 subchannels.
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post #43 of 91 Old 04-02-2011, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Good thing Nashville isn't on there. Their CBA station already has 2 subchannels.

CBS doesn't operate that affiliate so no, it wouldn't be on the list. So how does this affect us watching it over cable? I guess the PQ will now degrade to the level of WDIV and WXYZ... i.e. crap.
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post #44 of 91 Old 04-02-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentalist5.1 View Post
CBS doesn't operate that affiliate so no, it wouldn't be on the list. So how does this affect us watching it over cable? I guess the PQ will now degrade to the level of WDIV and WXYZ... i.e. crap.
If the CBS network is uplinking a full 1080i signal, before any additional compression needed for multicasting, along with subchannel uplinks, and stations can feed the full-bitrate HD to cable head ends via fiber or microwave, the subchannels needn't degrade PQ. If the station's bean counters won't invest in a 5-figure extra encoder for this, or share the cost with cable companies, maybe cable viewers, irritated by the PQ loss, will take pity on their poverty and take up a collection. :-) -- John
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post #45 of 91 Old 04-02-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentalist5.1 View Post

CBS doesn't operate that affiliate so no, it wouldn't be on the list. So how does this affect us watching it over cable? I guess the PQ will now degrade to the level of WDIV and WXYZ... i.e. crap.

Well, if you are on comcast, then your CBS PQ has been degraded for a while compared to the OTA signal since comcast has been compressing the feed. WWJ OTA seems almost constant bitrate at around 18 mbps, while WWJ Comcast is from memory 5/8'ths of this bitrate.
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post #46 of 91 Old 04-02-2011, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Well, if you are on comcast, then your CBS PQ has been degraded for a while compared to the OTA signal since comcast has been compressing the feed. WWJ OTA seems almost constant bitrate at around 18 mbps, while WWJ Comcast is from memory 5/8'ths of this bitrate.

I'm not aware of Comcast compressing the local channels in any their markets.
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post #47 of 91 Old 04-02-2011, 09:28 PM
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Smallville yesterday, 1 Hour 3 Minutes recording
OTA 8.9 GB
QAM 6.7 GB
same goes for WWJ, WXYZ, but NOT WDIV, WJBK.
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post #48 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 01:47 AM
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Recording size isn't a particularly useful indicator because there may be nullpackets in one recording but not the other. Most CBS-owned stations are now using variable bitrate encoders (MV500s I believe) that will not hit anything close to 17Mb/s average on the mushy/dark/low motion programming that makes up most scripted shows on TV today. Any unused space in the stream will be filled by nullpackets, and if the recording device does not explicitly strip them from the stream, may artificially increase file size.
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post #49 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post
Recording size isn't a particularly useful indicator because there may be nullpackets in one recording but not the other. Most CBS-owned stations are now using variable bitrate encoders (MV500s I believe) that will not hit anything close to 17Mb/s average on the mushy/dark/low motion programming that makes up most scripted shows on TV today. Any unused space in the stream will be filled by nullpackets, and if the recording device does not explicitly strip them from the stream, may artificially increase file size.
Don't all null packets go to PID 0x1FFF in the transport stream?

That was what my CBS affiliate was doing when they dropped their HD channel bit rate down to 15 mbps for no reason. They didn't have any subchannels (yet) so PID 0x1FFF suddenly had 2-3 mbps of traffic. Since this is a different PID from the HD audio and video, my recording size reflects a 15 mbps bit rate.

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post #50 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post
WWJ OTA seems almost constant bitrate at around 18 mbps, while WWJ Comcast is from memory 5/8'ths of this bitrate.
Comcast does not additionally compress local HD in the Detroit market.

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post #51 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

They should have seen DirecTV's standard definition 15 years ago. It looked better than a lot of this so-called, "HD" we're getting now.

I was just ruminating on this very topic a few days ago. I was watching some OTA TV and thinking about how great DirecTV looked in 1995-1996 (I installed it as soon as it came out). I partially dismissed it as romanticizing the past, but your post makes me think otherwise.

Recently I got back in with DirecTV for foreign programming and I have to say the quality is not exactly the shiznit it was back then.
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post #52 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

Don't all null packets go to PID 0x1FFF in the transport stream?

That was what my CBS affiliate was doing when they dropped their HD channel bit rate down to 15 mbps for no reason. They didn't have any subchannels (yet) so PID 0x1FFF suddenly had 2-3 mbps of traffic. Since this is a different PID from the HD audio and video, my recording size reflects a 15 mbps bit rate.

Yes, 0x1fff is nullpackets, but not all recording hardware and software will filter out unwanted PIDs.
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post #53 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DragonLoaf View Post

Recently I got back in with DirecTV for foreign programming and I have to say the quality is not exactly the shiznit it was back then.

From what I've seen with Dish, the foreign programming appears to be getting the shortest end of the stick as far as bitrate.

Seems to be that way with a lot of the ethnic subchannels OTA, too.
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post #54 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by icemannyr View Post

WCBS-DT NYC which has no sub channels has very bad PQ already.
Any time there is slight movement of objects they macroblock.
It's only going to get worse once the sub channels are added.

WPIX-DT NYC 1080i which has 3 SD sub channel has awful PQ on their HD feed.

I totally disagree with your comments on CBS.
The NFL on WCBS-DT blows away all comers and i see no macroblocks that you describe! Confirmed while watching the final four yesterday.
Maybe it is your TV?
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post #55 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

Yes, 0x1fff is nullpackets, but not all recording hardware and software will filter out unwanted PIDs.

But then it would record all of the PIDs including all of the subchannels. I don't know of any recording software that has this bug.

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post #56 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dm145 View Post

I totally disagree with your comments on CBS.
The NFL on WCBS-DT blows away all comers and i see no macroblocks that you describe! Confirmed while watching the final four yesterday.
Maybe it is your TV?



Agreed. WCBS has an outstanding picture and I've never seen any macroblocking either.
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post #57 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 05:16 PM
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It's not my TV. Macroblocking may not be the correct term.
What I notice is on events like college basketball any time the players are moving around they have digital compression artifacting on them. You can see the blocks of digital compression.
I post a sample of the video on Monday night.
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post #58 of 91 Old 04-03-2011, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

But then it would record all of the PIDs including all of the subchannels. I don't know of any recording software that has this bug.

IIRC Windows Media Center on Vista does. Been a while since I've used it though.
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post #59 of 91 Old 04-04-2011, 07:14 PM
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Here's a short video sample of the PQ from a direct recording of the QAM stream of WCBS-DT via FiOS during the NCAA championship.
To me the PQ is not that good and I'm getting the same PQ OTA.
http://rapidshare.com/files/45594064...ADTV21-1025.tp
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post #60 of 91 Old 04-04-2011, 07:44 PM
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I tried your download but after about 1/2 hr downloading it I didn't have any program on my computer to play it's .TP format Apparently VLC media player won't work?
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