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post #271 of 6039 Old 06-01-2011, 12:05 PM
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Ned's problem isn't his honor. It's that his honor is tempered with compassion. If he didn't have compassion, he wouldn't have warned Cersei. If he didn't have compassion, he would have told Robert about Cersei & Jaime and the children on his deathbed, and could have had all five of them on spikes before Robert died. Even with all he believed Jamie and Cersei were responsible for -- including Bran -- he had enough compassion for at least the (two completely innocent) children to give them a chance to escape.

There is a difference between steely, unflinching personal honor at all costs and Ned's brand of honor tempered with compassion. Unfortunately, either version is likely to have a hard time prevailing over baldfaced deceit and treachery.
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post #272 of 6039 Old 06-01-2011, 12:12 PM
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Seize the throne how? The Kingsguard? There is no reason for Ned have confidence they will follow him. Yes, he has been named Protector, but Cersei is still Queen. Barristan is the freakin' noblest of the noble Kingsguard, and in that final scene in last week's episode, he had no idea what to do, even after reading the King's own decree naming Ned Protector.

Ned knows that relying on the Kingsguard to back him is iffy, which is why he has to move to secure the Gold Cloaks. (Not as elite fighters as the Kingsguard, but there's a heck of a lot more of them.) And it wasn't a bad strategy, if not for Littlefinger's betrayal. If he had known the City Watch wasn't his, Ned may have chosen a different course of action.

With the benefit of knowing Littlefinger would betray him, it is clear that Renly's swords were his only hope. Ned wasn't keen on supporting Renly's designs on the throne, and it appears to have been his undoing. (And Ned was OK using Renly's guys to seize Cersei and the kids after Robert had died, but Renly had already (smartly) skipped town.)
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post #273 of 6039 Old 06-01-2011, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

2. As Protector form a coalition with Littlefinger and Vannis, seize the throne and isolate the pretender(s) and Mom. He would then have hostages and could decide on his options vis a vis Stannis or Renly. He could perhaps hold Lannister at bay, but probably not. Most likely, massive civil war with alot of folks dying, but he might survive. I believe Littlefinger would have supported him if Stark had followed his advice (intending to betray him later). Littlefinger would relish being kingmaker.

Isn't this effectively what Ned did? He trusted Littlefinger to help him seize the throne. He was clearly going to back Stannis, who Littlefinger apparently wasn't a fan of. But it seems like if he'd backed Renly or left this more ambiguous, Littlefinger might have gone along with it.

Or maybe not...after all, the opening scene in the brothel makes it pretty clear that Littlefinger planned to take Ned down at some point.

Either way, the "Ned should have seized the Queen and the kids" plan was exactly what he tried to do. He gave the Queen a heads up, but I don't think it ended up mattering much. The Queen would've been just as dismissive of Robert's decree of Ned as Protector either way.
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post #274 of 6039 Old 06-01-2011, 11:36 PM
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I disagree, I think it was more "first one to the throne wins", and Ned wasted too much time securing his rightful position. The queen alluded to the fact that Ned should've been seated instead of Robert, but Ned never made for the throne...at least then it was someone he was willing to follow that ascended those stairs, but this time he shouldn't have hesitated--waaay too much at stake.

edit: Okay just re-watched the scene, and noticed the king asked Ned to present the letter to the council after he dies...I guess Ned tried to follow his wishes, but still don't see why he had to wait before assuming authority.

Edit: OMG as I keep watching, everybody is giving him the right advice, yet poor Ned just won't budge--he has to know that they know what they're talking about...sheesh, I can't see him surviving the next episode...unless some one decides to keep playing him to their own ends.

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post #275 of 6039 Old 06-02-2011, 06:42 AM
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Again, it comes down to the question of how. The Red Keep is crawling with Lannisters. If Ned just hops up on the iron throne and says he's in charge, he's just going to get himself arrested (or worse) just the same. Who is going to protect him? The small council? Might makes right in this situation; I can't imagine Varys or Pycelle interfering in a physical fight for the throne, if they even care to back Ned.

His only hope was for Littlefinger to come through, or for Stannis deus ex his way into the throne room right as hell was breaking loose. And neither of those happened. So Ned was hosed the minute he turned down Renly (assuming there wasn't anything he could've done to keep Littlefinger from betraying him). But he turned down Renly for exactly the same reason he won't kneel to Joffrey...he still ain't the rightful king.

Ned would rather risk his life than his honor, but that (arguably) doesn't make him stupid.
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post #276 of 6039 Old 06-02-2011, 07:11 AM
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Has Stennis ever been seen?
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post #277 of 6039 Old 06-02-2011, 07:23 AM
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No. Although he's technically a member of the small council (IIRC), he's been presumably hanging out in his castle on Dragonstone, doing God-knows-what. Check the HBO maps if you want to know where that is.
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post #278 of 6039 Old 06-02-2011, 10:41 AM
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I am loving the fact that Charles Dance has come back on my radar, appearing as Tywin Lannister. Everytime I see the guy on screen I can't help but think of Eddie Murphy in "The Golden Child" uttering his name: Sardo Numspa!

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post #279 of 6039 Old 06-05-2011, 08:46 PM
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Jason Momoa was always underused in Stargate Atlantis but when he got better storylines you could see he had potential. Drogo has really begun to make an impact. Fantastic fight scene! What a badass. Momoa moves well and has the attitude to pull it off.

I'm kind of interested to see how he's going to be in the Conan reboot now, because if he can kick ass so effectively while speaking in a different language then Conan should be a walk in the park for him.


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post #280 of 6039 Old 06-05-2011, 09:19 PM
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Jason Momoa was always underused in Stargate Atlantis but when he got better storylines you could see he had potential. Drogo has really begun to make an impact. Fantastic fight scene! What a badass. Momoa moves well and has the attitude to pull it off.

Holy cow I didn't even recognize him. Wow yeah he's doing well and that fight scene was fantastic.
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post #281 of 6039 Old 06-05-2011, 10:57 PM
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Hey it's not just us...even the characters within the story are calling Ned an idiot. Way to go Varris.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #282 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 06:55 AM
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Holy cow I didn't even recognize him. Wow yeah he's doing well and that fight scene was fantastic.
Dont feel bad same here. I could not put a name to the face
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post #283 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 07:25 AM
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I am loving the fact that Charles Dance has come back on my radar, appearing as Tywin Lannister. Everytime I see the guy on screen I can't help but think of Eddie Murphy in "The Golden Child" uttering his name: Sardo Numspa!

OMG Brother Numsie!
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post #284 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 07:27 AM
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Interesting bit of trivia: George R.R. Martin wrote last night's episode.
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post #285 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 08:20 AM
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Seeing little Lord Robin telling his mother he was hungry had me cracking up......


And did the sword fighting/dance instructor die....or is this still up in the air? I didn't get a chance to go back to see if there were any screams or if the big knight he was fighting was in the throne room scene towards the end.
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post #286 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 08:26 AM
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Seeing little Lord Robin telling his mother he was hungry had me cracking up......


And did the sword fighting/dance instructor die....or is this still up in the air? I didn't get a chance to go back to see if there were any screams or if the big knight he was fighting was in the throne room scene towards the end.
I thought I heard a scream in the background but there was a lot of killing going on.
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post #287 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 08:29 AM
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Another terrific episode and much more action oriented. I think they purposefully left the sword-fight instructor's fate in question. I like his character, but can't really imagine he could survive in the end of that scene. You can see all the story lines coming together in large scale conflict now. The production values of this show continue to impress.

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"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." -Jonathan Swift
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post #288 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visionon View Post

jason momoa was always underused in stargate atlantis but when he got better storylines you could see he had potential. Drogo has really begun to make an impact. Fantastic fight scene! What a badass. Momoa moves well and has the attitude to pull it off.

I'm kind of interested to see how he's going to be in the conan reboot now, because if he can kick ass so effectively while speaking in a different language then conan should be a walk in the park for him.

+1!!!!

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post #289 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 09:18 AM
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Another terrific episode and much more action oriented. I think they purposefully left the sword-fight instructor's fate in question. I like his character, but can't really imagine he could survive in the end of that scene. You can see all the story lines coming together in large scale conflict now. The production values of this show continue to impress.

The sword instructor must be alive. I swore I heard the metal sword hitting the ground. I think the sword instructor must have side stepped the last blow of the knight and knocked him out with a smart inner move with the broken wood sword.
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post #290 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 10:12 AM
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...the sword-fight instructor's fate in question. I like his character, but can't really imagine he could survive in the end of that scene.

Easy! Here is a "How To" video from Kill Bill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdjuS17DGlA
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post #291 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 10:26 AM
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Hey it's not just us...even the characters within the story are calling Ned an idiot. Way to go Varris.

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Interesting bit of trivia: George R.R. Martin wrote last night's episode.


So apparently George R.R. Martin reads this forum!
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post #292 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 10:51 AM
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yeah, I thought Varris was gonna slap Ned upside the head for being so stupid--his telling the queen he knew her secret is still bothering me...I'm wondering if it's sinking in to him now? Go ahead and call the little brat "king" and then conspire behind his back like everyone else will...except for his daughter, who gets her brains from Ned's side--she still wants to make golden haired babies with Joffrey. I'm hoping the youngest girl finds her wolf, goes into hiding, and returns a badass ten years later when it looks like the house of Stark is all but broken...or something.

I'm liking his oldest son's attempt at leadership, but if Ned isn't going to die, I'm betting he will...or maybe he will kill daddy Lannister the new hand--that would really get things crankin...all the while the white walkers do their thing up north--what was it that woman said? All of them should be marching north?

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post #293 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 12:02 PM
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I'm rooting for the Dothraki (sp?) to come in and completely clean house.
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post #294 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 12:29 PM
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I'm rooting for the Dothraki (sp?) to come in and completely clean house.
+1000 I can't wait for that battle.

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post #295 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 12:55 PM
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I'm rooting for the Dothraki (sp?) to come in and completely clean house.
With Khal leading them and his warrior queen Daenerys right by his side. Damn, she is growing in quite a formidable force isn't she? Not having read the books and being unfamilar with the history of the Dothraki's, have Khaleesis traditionally wielded this much influence over the head of the tribe? Of course Khal could just be "whipped"
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post #296 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 01:19 PM
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I'm rooting for the Dothraki (sp?) to come in and completely clean house.
I'm with you 100%
kill all those backstabbers, usurpers, poisoners & incest doers!

And I think they'd do it in fine style

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post #297 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
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I'm with you 100%
kill all those backstabbers, usurpers, poisoners & incest doers!

And I think they'd do it in fine style
There would be no one left alive...which may eventually be the outcome if GRRM ever finishes.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #298 of 6039 Old 06-06-2011, 03:31 PM
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yeah, I thought Varris was gonna slap Ned upside the head for being so stupid--his telling the queen he knew her secret is still bothering me...I'm wondering if it's sinking in to him now? Go ahead and call the little brat "king" and then conspire behind his back like everyone else will...except for his daughter, who gets her brains from Ned's side--she still wants to make golden haired babies with Joffrey. I'm hoping the youngest girl finds her wolf, goes into hiding, and returns a badass ten years later when it looks like the house of Stark is all but broken...or something.

I'm liking his oldest son's attempt at leadership, but if Ned isn't going to die, I'm betting he will...or maybe he will kill daddy Lannister the new hand--that would really get things crankin...all the while the white walkers do their thing up north--what was it that woman said? All of them should be marching north?
Just thinking out loud but when Varys tells Ned that his wife no longer holds the Imp prisoner he says you might as well cut my throat now. It's pretty clear he was thinking he had some protection as long as he had Tyrion under Stark control. Maybe that influenced his decision to confront Cersai. Still not a smart move but at least there some logic to it.
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post #299 of 6039 Old 06-07-2011, 01:56 AM
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LOL I get the feeling that Tyrion and the Starks are about to meet again, since his "companions" aren't going into battle without him. I like the Imp, so I'm hoping he stays around, but we know something tragic is bound to happen soon--and no, the king dying and Ned being imprisoned isn't tragic--the king was getting on my nerves anyway. One of the main "good" guys has to die soon, there aren't but 2 episodes left this season? I can't see the Starks rescuing Ned from Kings Landing, or unseating Joffrey before the season's over...this isn't going to end well.

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post #300 of 6039 Old 06-07-2011, 04:56 AM
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And we had a zombie! It just keeps getting better!

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